28 replies to this topic

[Brother Keyaetus]

Something's always had me wondering about space marines and their bionis. Why do they have them showing? Are they unable to place power armour over them or is the material they use for the bionics themselves just as strong? Or are the parts like arms/legs too large in have power armour fitted over them? Always tempted to start iron hands its just id not be able to fork out the money for fancy bionics.
Cheers.

[Deus Ex Ferrum]

I've always figured that it was a Rule of Cool factor to have them showing. In reality, they should be armored for the same reason that the drive shafts and other mechanical pieces of tanks have a layer of plate between them and the outside world.

[fudblinker]

*Haha, beat to the punch on the rule of cool thing.*

I think the visible bionics came about from the "rule of cool" and a drive to show the robotic parts. Its one thing to say "hey this guy has a robot arm" but to visibly see it has a different impact. I don't think there would be a problem to say that your version of Iron Hands prefer to cover their bionics with armor, I mean who wants to have to rebuild their leg every time they catch a stray bullet? One that used to bug me is the bionics that are built into helmets. What does the space marine do when he takes his helmet off, walk around half blind? I usually choose to treat the bionic eyes on helmets more as enhanced targeting systems and feel that a "real" bionic eye would fit inside the standard helmet. I did like though how some of the bionic legs from the Iron Hands upgrade pack ( don't know if that is still available from GW or not) had bits of armor on them, so it at least looked like they made an effort to protect their robotic limbs.

Edited by fudblinker, 02 May 2012 - 12:10 PM.

[bannus]

You don't really need to have visible bionics to build an Iron Hands army. With the new decal sheets, it is becoming a lot easier to start an Iron Hands army.

When I first got started, there were no bionics really to be found - so I scratch built my bionics for my first Iron Hands army (limiting the bionics to just the Sergeants), which is another option.

[maverike_prime]

Actually if you look at some of the specific bionic parts you can see that no they won't fit inside the armor. The Bionic leg comes to mind at this. The foot of the leg is quit large and simply will not fit into the boot of the power armor.

[Grimbad]

Things on minis need to be visible (and look good) from tabletop distances.

But coming up with in-universe justifications isn't that hard either. 40k people (and Space Marines especially) are not 21st century people, and they obviously put a lot of effort into display, even where it's liable to get them killed.

Edited by Grimbad, 02 May 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[fudblinker]

Another in-universe explanation could be that their standard bionic isn't strong enough to handle the rigors of combat, so they remove it and attach a more robust version for combat that happens to be too large to fit within standard power armor but is made of armor grade materials.

[rusty1109]

Or possibly the relevant limb on the battle brothers power armour was decimated and beyond repair, spares would be of a premium when away from a forgeworld or whatever so the armour is left as is because the limb now being bionic doesn't need protection as badly.

[Durus]

By the wording in the description of the wargear section in the books it always seemed to suggest to me, that their Bionics are more or less just as though or even tougher than an organic limb in PA. It went something like "A projectile that would normally cripple an leg might just lightly damage a bionic one" (think that came out of the 3rd edition codex).
Since Space Marines usually don't wear shorts on the battlefield I assumed that meant a power armored leg.

Though I think both points of view (visibility on tabletop vs. justification in fluff) are a valid way to look at it. In fact I imagine that only very few SM never have to receive any Bionics at all. "Minor" stuff like a lost finger, hand foot or maybe a new ear or eye can probably fit under the armor an will go unnoticed on most marines.
So my theory is that most marines have had to receive minor bionics and just the ones that are half machine already, get the rule on the tabletop to account for the changes made to their physiology. Their Limbs might be mechanically so different from their organic counterparts, that they are unable to fit into regular PA.

Which reminds me an Assassin from the Shadowrun Universe that had bionic Raptor legs. Oh, the possibilities...

[DeathKnight2000]

If my old memory serves me well, they did that to show using the WYSIWYG rule for bionics on Space Marines. If one was killed, on a 6? they could be stood up with one wound. unless of instant death etc.

[bannus]

There was a rule for bionics in 3rd edition and even rules for specific bionics (leg, arm, eye) in 2nd edition and earlier.

The fluff seems to indicate that the bionics employed by Marines are not only tougher than the Marine himself - but the armor he wears as well. In the Iron Hands fluff, a remark was made about a bionic arm having several previous owners and would - no doubt - have many more.

[Huberticus]

Rule of cool and plot-point armour to borrow from TV Tropes.

Bionics don't always have to be big, massive, industrial lumps of metal, with wires and pipes wrapped around them like snakes. I think if a marine belonged to a chapter where flesh was sacred (ie. not the Iron Hands or successors), they might attempt to hide their augmetics with 'life-like' bionics, or something easily hidden under armour.

Dark Heresy highlights that there are varying types of bionics, some of which are obvious, others are easy to conceal.
Similarly

Spoiler

When Gaunt gets replacement eyes, he doesn't get the massive, cheap and bulky eyes like Captain 'Shoggy' Domor has - he gets the finest bionics the Imperium has, which look like normal eyes

.
Again, in the Cain series it is noted that some high-end bionics (although this type is rarely used by AdMech members) are disguised to look like the original flesh. It should be noted that bulkiness doesn't make them any more resilient to damage than the disguised bionics.
Not all bionics look like the owner had a serious accident with some plumbing and a vacuum cleaner.

But - some people (mechanicus, certain marines) do want their bionics to be on show, and not try to disguise their bionics. As a symbol of their closeness/connection to The Machine God, or taking pride in their skills at creating/forging machinery(the ultramarines techmarine in the 1st Uriel Ventris book forged his own bionics limbs).

[Rafen_2]

I also wondered that and here is our conversation here:
http://www.bolterand...p...&hl=bionics

Hope some of our answers there will help

[Aquilanus]

To add to a few points, in some cases, having "exposed" Bionics is to prove a point - take Commissar Yarrick for example. He kicked an Ork warlords' butt (after getting his arm torn off) and later took the Ork's arm for his own, a message to the other Orks - "I've not only taken away your leaders' life, but I'm now going to take yours with his arm!" He then had an eye replaced with an augmetic to enhance the rumour that he had the "Evil eye".

[Hellios]

Always tempted to start iron hands its just id not be able to fork out the money for fancy bionics.
Cheers.

You don't need to model bionics in an Iron Hands army (It isn't like they have rules for it now...) but if you would like bionics don't let money put you off! Good looking DIY bionics are pretty cheap and easy, I imagine the tutorial section of the B&C will have a couple of guides somewhere or ask one of the Iron Hands nuts hanging around here.

[Aquilanus]

Always tempted to start iron hands its just id not be able to fork out the money for fancy bionics.
Cheers.

You don't need to model bionics in an Iron Hands army (It isn't like they have rules for it now...) but if you would like bionics don't let money put you off! Good looking DIY bionics are pretty cheap and easy, I imagine the tutorial section of the B&C will have a couple of guides somewhere or ask one of the Iron Hands nuts hanging around here.

http://www.bolterand...howtopic=195209

http://www.bolterand...howtopic=172406

http://www.bolterand...howtopic=150948

http://www.bolterand...showarticle=446

I'll be having a good look at the above over the next few weeks

[Grimdarkness]

Or there's the fact that the bionics have no import jacks for the power armour leg/arm.

[Jehoel]

In the current DA codex, Ezekiel (Grand Master of Librarians) is descried as losing an eye to an ork bullet. He waited only long enough for a simple bionic replacement before returning to the fight. He refuses to have it replaced with a better one out of respect for those who fell in that battle.

[Deus Ex Ferrum]

I'm re-reading the Horus Heresy books from the beginning, and I'm into Flight of the Eisenstein. After Garro gets his leg ripped off by the Warsinger on Isstvan Extremis, he has a bionic replacement grafted on and it states later on in the novel that he has plates that cover it up when he is in the power armor. So sometimes, yes, bionics can be concealed beneath a Marine's armor.

[AGPO]

It's the same 'rule of cool' which has sergeants running around with no helmet despite the fact that all that effort has gone into giving them near invulnerable armour which actually improves their senses.

[Lesek]

I figure some marines would want it on show. It's the whole ethos of wearing your scars proudly taken to a new level. Almost as if to say "Something hit me hard enough to tear the limbs from my body and it did not kill me.".

Edited by Lesek, 09 May 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Rymeer]

I seem to remember that Marines can regenerate lost limbs, eyes, etc.... and then later, they seem to... in the fluff... have lost that ability. If they do have re-gen... then the bionics are just a 'stop-gap' to keep the marine in the field and fighting. If not, then they are replacements. In either case, you should be able to mount armor plating over the existing bionic part... say a leg.

It wouldn't be total coverage, but it wouldn't have to be.. rule of cool would have a full bionic leg (upper leg, knee, lower leg, and foot) armored with perhaps the shin guard, thigh piece, and perhaps a 'knee cop... and yes, cop is correctly spelled!

The only real work in making armored bionics is cutting off the limb(s) and hollowing out the armor sections you want to use over the bionic you've created using rod stock and wires.

In any case, it's your army, make it as you want.

Just a few thoughts,

Rymeer

[madeofhatev2]

Dude, then if Chaplain Ortan Cassius was bionic enuf to make him toughness 6, wouldn't he be nekid? "Rule of Cool" is a factor in modelling minis. And remember, wargamers need a largely disposable income for such things.

[Deathwing70]

I'd say, realistically there's also the intimidation factor to consider. As people have said, Space Marines showing them (or any other character for that matter) basically say "something ripped my arm off but it didn't kill me, I'm still here to kick your ass". The whole reason Space Marines exist is for the intimidation factor, if a sector rebels they could just blow up a planet and hope it breaks their morale or they could send super soldiers with super armor down there, beat them face to face and break their morale like that without wasting the lifes of a couple billion future servants.

I mean, fluffwise I would assume most space marines that have seen some battles would have bionics, showing them would tell your enemy "I've seen countless battles already".

Who would you think is more scary? the 20yo rookie with the perfect haircut and face or the slightly older soldier, going bald, face full of scars and a look that says "you're just another chapter to my story".


This is actually the exact reason I'm planning to sprinkle alot more bionics around my army

[Skoby]

I think for many marines (including my iron hands) they wear their bionics with pride in the same way other marines wear battle honours, tabards, capes etc to iron hands it's a sign of strength and a reminder of the weakness (flesh) they've had removed and covering it up would imply indifference or shame of the bionics. For my iron hands clan I'm aiming for each member (excluding scouts) to have at least 1 visible bionic enhancement.