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New relevations about the Iron Hands

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#76
Bannus

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I was a little surprised to see the level of involvement from the Medusa PDF - given the Iron Hands' intolerance for weakness.

Overall, I was very pleased with the book and how the fluff was "fleshed out" (yep, pun intended). The only thing that really bothered me was how Iron-Father Khatir was portrayed. Nothing about him was represented as an Iron-Father as we know him. Armed with a pair of lightning claws with built-in flamers. Where was his power ax and servo-arm?
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#77
BassWave

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Didn't kahtir also have a hammer when they were cleansing those bunkers? Yeah I don't get it either. I guess claws and flamers are cool but those aren't the iron fathers' signature weapons. Its like giving grimaldus power nunchucks with built in meltaguns, sure its cool but...

This novel seemed to only focus on the topic of bionics, and having all the characters in the book question its use.

There weren't any situations that showed off our chapter's knowledge of technology (ie hacking computers, making repairs, comuning with machine spirits, etc.) There were also no techmarines present to fix stuff, or any dreadnought interaction at all.

Even with all of this lost potential, I clutch this book closely to my chest as I cherish any positive attention our chapter gets.

#78
Urza

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I wasn't at all impressed with 'Wrath of Iron' to be honest.

It took most of the book to get going, and then ended with the Iron Hands leading an utterly dull charge up a huge flight of stairs (from the bottom of a Hive right the way to the very top!!! Utterly ridiculous!!)..

It made the Iron Hands out to be almost entirely devoid of emotion, not because they choose to contain their emotions and therfore come across as cold and ruthless (which is how I have always perceived them to be from previous material), but because they actually have their emotions surgically removed as part of their mechanical upgrades.. This made them come across more like Cybermen from Doctor Who than Iron Hands.

I also really didn't like the fact that Clan Commander Rauth was completely Mechanical apart from his brain and his progenoid glands - I don't think even an Iron Hand Astartes would go that far! Also, if he was that mechanical surely there would be no point in keeping the progenoids anyway as there would be no organic material (other than the brain) to absorb genetic material from, which is the single purpose of the progenoid...

The whole book yet again centered around the Iron Hand's main characteristic feature (bionics) being their weakness. At one point they imply that Iron Hand's lose portions of their souls as they replace flesh with steel, so Iron Hands Librarians are significantly weaker than other Astartes Librarians... Also, the book implies that Ferrus Manus regarded the Iron Hands desire to replace flesh with steel as a genetic sickness that would end up destroying the chapter, and that the first thing he intended to do (if he had of survived the Heresy) was to make an outright ban on all non-vital bionic replacements.

I don't understand why it's so hard to write a novel where the Iron Hands' bionics are a strength rather than an easily exploitable weakness... You don't see any Space Wolves novels where their weakness is Wolves, or a White Scars book where they are defeated by their own motorbikes, do you? It's just weak and sloppy writing IMHO. A shame really as the Iron Hands deserve much, much better than this.
"Make war and move on, and again, and again, until nothing breathes which stands against us. All else is sophistry and pretty lies"
- Ferrus Manus, The Gorgon, Lord & Primarch of the Xth Legion Iron Hands.
 
"Give me my hand, Gorgonson. Make me whole so that one day soon I might close my fists around the throat of Horus Lupercal and choke him until his filthy light goes out"
- Shadrak Meduson, Warleader of Clan Sorrgul.

Urza's Anvilarium - My Heresy-Era 'Iron Hands' Xth Legion Blog.

#79
Yodhrin

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See, it's odd so many of you chaps are getting ambiguity from the story, when I finished reading I thought the finale was a pretty ringing endorsement of the Iron Hands' position; Rauth's constant drive for swiftness even at huge cost in lives was vindicated, the vanity and political interplay of the various mortal commanders proved them to be a liability as the Iron Hands had always believed, despite his own doubts about bionic augmentation Telach and his fellows were able to hold an incredibly ancient and powerful daemon prince at bay for a fair while and Telach had enough will and power left at his end to close the portal, Rauth and the other Iron Hands only made it through the gauntlet by virtue of their bionic augmentations and willingness to callously use the mortal soldiery at their disposal in ways which ensured their deaths - all in all a fairly thorough validation IMO.

Personally, I wasn't a fan of the supposed extract from Ferrus' journals, it felt a little "tacked on", included just to generate artificial(no pun intended) ambiguity and provide some justification in the mind of the reader for the "doubter" characters' sentiments, because the story made a thorough enough mockery of said sentiments that it would be difficult to lend them any credence at all otherwise.

#80
Bannus

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See, it's odd so many of you chaps are getting ambiguity from the story...

The ambiguity comes from the different perceptions of the characters involved. The 'tacked on' bit from Ferrus was intended to add to that ambiguity. The end result showing that there is no clear-cut answer to the questions of bionics. They were uniformly invaluable in accomplishing the mission, but the expense is their own humanity.

Is it a strength? Is it a weakness? You really cannot say. It is a trade-off. Which then brings up the next question. Is is worth it? :(

Edited by bannus, 24 July 2012 - 06:25 PM.

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#81
BassWave

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What makes less sense is a magos of the mechanicus explaining how illogical it is to replace flesh with bionics :angry:

#82
legoss

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But the magos is talking about replacing the perfection of the Emperor's gift with machines. And if I remember correctly, some factions of the Mechanicus revere the Emperor as the Omnissiah. Or as something to do with him anyways. So it did seem odd indeed, but depending on her point of view it still seems valid. I enjoyed the way Rauth was portrayed, and how when the guard general tried to force his hand the reaction he had was well we will push on.

#83
Jareddm

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What makes less sense is a magos of the mechanicus explaining how illogical it is to replace flesh with bionics ;)

The difference is they're not talking about human flesh. They're talking about space marine flesh, which to many would already be deemed perfect.

#84
Lucien Eilam

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In the 41st millennium, your weird psychological compulsion is unlikely to be made of pure, unalloyed win, and there's probably a reason the Emperor went to all that trouble creating the Space Marines instead of just sticking brains in combat servitor chassis.

There's no real contradiction between Ferrus believing that flesh is weak and not believing that lopping bits of yourself off in favour of bionics is the answer. Maybe he intended it as a warning to be prepared for your body to someday fail you, and that you'd need iron will and steely discipline to carry you across the line, but his Legion took it too literally, being already predisposed in that direction by a genetic flaw.

The Adeptus Mechanicus is more about man being able to improve on natural evolution through artificial means than simply "metal is better than organic". They make use of genetic engineering, vat-grown organs, etc. as well as bionics. Space Marines are the pinnacle of re-engineered man, crafted by the living personification of the Machine-God, and would be revered by Tech-Adepts without the need for bionics.

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#85
Verythrax Draconis

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Just my 2 cents on the clan organization, discussed 2 pages ago :lol:

I think we can throw any pretense in get it as a standard IH organization out of the window. We don't really have any clues that all the clans follow the same criteria, so maybe that's how that particular clan developed as their own battle style over the millennia.

Or even better (or worse) since each clan is on its own, without counting on other clans/companies to fulfill any specialized roles, they need to be "jacks-of-all-trades" and sometimes recruitment doesn't allow it - well, you got this time 4 guys with psyker abilities, so what we will do? Make one of them to shut up his brain and line up at the frontline? No, if you get lemons, you make a limonade :P

#86
Bannus

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Actually, this discussion has been going on in-depth in this thread.
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