Iron Father Ferrum Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 ... honestly, I had considered buying into the program and converting one to make it look better, but on third thought, its not worth the effort. Ceramite plating isn't going to help when autocannons rip this thing out of the sky anyway. Aerial Assault is cool, but you still don't pull that SMF cover save unless you're going so fast that you can't shoot anything anyway. Storm Ravens survive because of AV12; if these things draw fire like Ravens do, they are going to crumple the moment they show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 If it gets flier rules then it will be a lot more durable but untill then its gonna be shot down so fast by anything s6 and up, also did anyone realize that rolling double 1s on the blitza bomber is better then the payload it normally drops XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I've been thinking about how to actually use the thing. I think starting off on the board seems like a bad idea considering you're using an AV 11 platform on a base so high anyone can see it from anywhere on the board. So, plan on either come in from reserve, deep striking or escorting someone coming in from reserve. I'm warming to the idea of escorting someone outflanking; you don't have to spend a turn zooming up the board to get into a firing position; you just come on and start shooting. This sets up some nice side armor shots. Deep Striking might be ok, but I hate deep striking something that big. You are asking to scatter into terrain and immobilizing yourself. So the question is what do you escort that is outflanking. Choices: - Anything with combat Tactics via Khan - A single tactical squad via Sicarius - A single unit of something via Shrike (I think) - Scouts - Scout Bikes - Land Speeder Storm I think looking at the list Khan is a good choice. You can build a list with tons of choices what you want to escort. Scouts, meh. If you outflank on the wrong side of the board, hopefully you placed an objective there for them to sit on, because that's all they can do the rest of the game. The problem with the Scout Bikes and Land Speeder Storm is that they are holding on to the same FOC as the Talon. Maybe you could take a full squad of scout bikes, 2 Talons, combat squad and escort both. Thoughts? The Scout biker idea won't work, as they are one unit in reserves, they only combat squad when they deploy and by then it's too late to escort them as that decision is made when placing in reserves. And with the longer-ranged weapons, especially the skyhammer, starting in reserve would be fine. In fact, that could have sold the skyhammer to me, as I could move it in from reserves 12" and even if the assault cannon isn't in range the skyhammer definitely will. Also remember that by Turn 2/3 the fight will most like be in midfield, the Sky Talon should therefore be able to easily get its assault cannons in range with its 12" move. I think I may wait until the 6th Ed rules comes out and see if there are flier rules and what they do for survivability. Otherwise, as Deux Ex Ferrum says, there's a good chance it'll be shot down very quickly, and that's a waste, especially when you consider Typhoons can do a similar job but for cheaper, letting you bring more. If I get it though I'll take one of the missile variants and make it a general anti-transport/anti-infantry unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 I pre ordered 2 yesterday. I like the model, it reminds me if the battle copters in Advanced wars, and the ability to field something different is a plus too. Speeders just get old after a while, and I'm glad we have access to a flyer now. I'll definitely try to find a way to magnetize the weapons so I can play it however, but the possibilities with this thing is pretty great. My favorite idea right now is escorting an assault ram onto the board that's filled with 10 th/ss termies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakus40k Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I pre ordered 2 yesterday. I like the model, it reminds me if the battle copters in Advanced wars, and the ability to field something different is a plus too. Speeders just get old after a while, and I'm glad we have access to a flyer now. I'll definitely try to find a way to magnetize the weapons so I can play it however, but the possibilities with this thing is pretty great. My favorite idea right now is escorting an assault ram onto the board that's filled with 10 th/ss termies. I've also ordered two. I happen to like the model myself, and intend to run a pair of them armed with one of the missile systems (not sure which yet- will be magnetizing everything anyway :tu: ) along with a full squadron of Typhoons. That will give me a bit more suppression-firepower to escort my Melta-bikers. :D Can't wait till they get here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culebras Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Some stats: - Fast Attack slot on the FOC; - Fast Skimmer; - AV 11 all around; - BS 4; - Ceramite Plating. I just checked the web page for it at the GW website and it doesn't mention Ceramite Plating. Where did you read that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kierdale Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Some stats: - Fast Attack slot on the FOC; - Fast Skimmer; - AV 11 all around; - BS 4; - Ceramite Plating. I just checked the web page for it at the GW website and it doesn't mention Ceramite Plating. Where did you read that? Page 66 of WD390 has the full rules for the Storm Talon, including the fact it has Ceramite Plating. For the record one's definitely on my shopping list, though not high on my priorities. I'm following this thread to see what to put it with/how best to use it. Looking forward to reading some post-battle reports of them in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 It's in the White Dwarf rules. EDIT: ninja'd by Kierdale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 60" range for the Skyhammer is really nice, but at S8 Typhoon have a chance to glance AV14. Besides its 'short' range, I think I'm going for the Typhoon in that bird. The Skyhammer is just an overpriced long-range-3-shot AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I'll use it as a transport killer mainly, so I'll use the skyhammers first. It'll be kept somewhat near a land raider or other high threat target so i can mess with my opponent's head. It'll give me a reason to field a LRC/LRR over my normal LR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Aiwass Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I was thinking 2xST plus 3x LS Typhoon. But being a FA unit, I doubt I use it if I want to field 2x LSS with 5 scouts each, because I will need the Typhoons anyway. But as I think that every unit needs some kind of synergy with the rest of the army (or, at least, with some part of it) the best uses for the Stormtalon that comes to my mind atm are backing the Typhoons or, a 'unit' of 3 ST on his own. With HB can team up with a dakka pred or rifleman for redundancy, but not sure. Need to think more about it. Even if I'm not going to use it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I wouldn't really have the TML being able to glance AB14 as a selling point, let alone it being able to pen AV13. Against both it's unlikely to do anything and it's better fired at AV10-12. The skyhammer has it beat against AV10 and AV11. The main reason to take the TML IMO is for the frag missiles and AP3 on the kraks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drakus40k Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Frankly, I see the skyhammer launcher as the Anti-Aircraft option. Particularly if flyers end up with a rule similar to Apoc, where you deduct 12" for the range of the weapon. That 60" standoff range suddenly looks a lot better for taking out flyers when they show up. This could be our anti-aircraft platform. Handy against those pesky dark eldar with their night-shields too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatball Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 The main problem I have with the Stormtalon is its size. The fact that it should operate within 24" inches of the enemy and AV11 are downsides which can be mitigated to some degree by providing cover, preferably from other vehicles. Due to its size, and height of the base's stem, you may have a hard time to find cover. If however I were to field one I would use it bare-bones for TL dakka goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssjcloudx Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 now if it moves at 12 inches and can still fire all weapons, at what speed can it travel and still fire 1 weapon, mostly because if you take the typhoon for late game up close fire support if you can move 18-24 inches and still fire the assault cannon and defensive weapons (frag missles) then this could prove to be an excelent setup. it would be awsome to move that far across the board and provide the upclose fire power. consider the look on your opponents face when this thing moves across the board and unloads 4 assault cannon shots and 2 frag missles on his troopers that are on the oposite side of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 The Stormtalon still can't fire if you move flat out, or more than 12" to be precise. It doesn''t have any rules giving it an exception to that. It's aerial assault rule simply means that at cruising speed (so up to 12") it can fire all its weapons, whereas it can normally only fire one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Still, that type of maneuverability is something that Marines need. Now we have a way to combat super fast moving Eldar and DE without having to worry about small arms fire against our land speeders. I'm going to love using my Talons against my IG buddy. I'm gonna paint kill tallies for tanks under the cockpit for every one I kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I'm going to love using my Talons against my IG buddy. I'm gonna paint kill tallies for tanks under the cockpit for every one I kill. That sounds like you're going with the lascannons? I'm curious as to why you're going to make it a tank hunter instead of using it for killing light armor and infantry. . . which appears to be its primary purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanek Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Sorry about that. When I said tanks, I meant troop transports. It would be a nightmare to try and punch through AV13 with those things. One local IG player runs all infantry, and the other has an infantry list and an all mech vet list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voloch Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 I hate GW. They introduce a new toy into a slot (Fast) where I already struggle with my choices. As a Raven Guard player this couldn't come at a worse time and position. I just hope GW fixes this in 6th ed with the introduction of WFB army composition style - or at least in 6th C:SM with LS:S being a dedicated transport to the scouts. What we really needed instead was the Stormraven to be made "public". The introduction of the Stormtalon really boosts gunline armies and I am next to stunned that they created this. Will I be trying out this toy? Most definitely ... and I will hate myself for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Voloch, the rumours are force composition will be like Fantasy. That being said, what's wrong with being spoilt for choice? I'd much rather have lots of good choices than only a couple of good ones. Makes things more interesting in both designing a list and playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voloch Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Voloch, the rumours are force composition will be like Fantasy. That being said, what's wrong with being spoilt for choice? I'd much rather have lots of good choices than only a couple of good ones. Makes things more interesting in both designing a list and playing it. Principally I agree with you. Lots of choice might seem like being spoiled. But, those choices are being limited by the FOC. Creating an assault army-style, they way I like it. I am "forced" (it is still by choice) to use specialist codex' like BA to be close to the army I like, and even then be limited (no LS:S). And would people not go "pfft" (though I normally don't give a rats bee-hind what ppl think about me) if I ran fluffy Raven Guard using the BA rules? I would think so. By why should I have access to everything the way I like it? I shouldn't, of course not. But as a fluffy Raven Gaurd player, I feel limited, hindered, and then reading the fluff in the Storm Talon fluff ... I start to feel screwed. And WFB FOC is still only a rumour. This isn't meant to be a thread hi-jack. The discussion is about the Stormtalon as a unit, not the FOC (though I am more than happy to discuss it ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Well when discussing a unit it's important at times to discuss the competition it has for its slot. For example, you compare the Stormtalon to the Typhoon, and with current rules it's quite evident that the Typhoon wins move times. It does a similar job and is cheaper. And then of course you may want fast melta etc. So at the moment the Stormtalon suffers because of its competition. I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying for a while though, and that's to come back in a couple of months. New edition, new rules, better model, I hope. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voloch Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Well, when discussion FA slots, as a Raven Guard, the Stormtalon does not only compete with land speeders, but with my LS:Storms, Assault Marines and Scout Bikers and even Vanguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culebras Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've been thinking about how to actually use the thing. I think starting off on the board seems like a bad idea considering you're using an AV 11 platform on a base so high anyone can see it from anywhere on the board. So, plan on either come in from reserve, deep striking or escorting someone coming in from reserve. I'm warming to the idea of escorting someone outflanking; you don't have to spend a turn zooming up the board to get into a firing position; you just come on and start shooting. This sets up some nice side armor shots. Deep Striking might be ok, but I hate deep striking something that big. You are asking to scatter into terrain and immobilizing yourself. So the question is what do you escort that is outflanking. Choices: - Anything with combat Tactics via Khan - A single tactical squad via Sicarius - A single unit of something via Shrike (I think) - Scouts - Scout Bikes - Land Speeder Storm I think looking at the list Khan is a good choice. You can build a list with tons of choices what you want to escort. Scouts, meh. If you outflank on the wrong side of the board, hopefully you placed an objective there for them to sit on, because that's all they can do the rest of the game. The problem with the Scout Bikes and Land Speeder Storm is that they are holding on to the same FOC as the Talon. Maybe you could take a full squad of scout bikes, 2 Talons, combat squad and escort both. Thoughts? One thought I had was for a disruption force designed to come in from a flank and inflict maximum damage. A devastator squad with four multi-melta's or a vanguard squad first, then put them in a razorback for extra firepower and support it with the Stormtalon. you can equip the Razorback and the Stormtalon based on what you want to focus on. With the razorback you can move six and shoot, pop out the squad and shoot, and still support them with the stormtalon. Alternately, if you take a rhino, you give up the extra gun on the razorback but gain the fire points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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