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The Neurode Crusade - Plastic Thunderhawk

neurode black templars wip

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#1001
Hawklynn

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I am doing somewhat of the same thing now, although I am still in the very early stages of it. I used the example crusade layout from the wiki to begin organizing my army. It has made things on this end simpler, however, it is all on paper (.doc file actually) right now and I need to go and actually separate them out into their companies. I have banners for companies and individual squads made up digitally. Just need to get the last (and there are a lot of them) of the infantry models and get them painted.


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Black Templars: 1-1-1 
 
"So stuff like the Power Axe on the Sword Brother being overcosted and inefficient just isn't relevant to me!
What matters is that it's an angry Space Knight wielding a Big censored.gif Axe!" - HighMarshalAmp

 
"They killed Fritz!"
 
 
 ETL_Medal_06.gif ETL_VI_Banner_02_Oathbraker_.jpg

#1002
Brother Cristopher

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I'll hold you to that! We need to see what you've come up with. And soon!

 

Wow, I'm surprised to see that this thread now has over 1000 posts! Thank you all for all the visits, posts and motivation!

 

A pity that Photobucked did what they did, though, since they've ruined some of the posts here.

 

And here's for my next project. I've finally got myself to paint my kitbashed apothecary and finally got around to finish assembling the standard bearer.

 

wXIHKD7.jpg

 

The apothecary has some apothecary bits as well as black templar bits.

 

Regarding the standard bearer, I must say, I'm quite happy with the result, maybe with the exception of the right shoulder pad; the chains I've added don't look as good as I had imagined. Also, the right wrist is a bit awkward, despite my professional TM attempt to mask the gap with green stuff. Well, it seems

 

Finally, there's the OOP Castellan/Power axe guy who, in my book, is a classic miniature due to his presence in Codex: Black Templars.


Edited by Brother Cristopher, 26 June 2018 - 02:36 PM.


#1003
Brother Adelard

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I have that OOP metal captain. I always find it strange that he is considered as a BT specific model when he has no BT iconography whatsoever? Seems to put everyone else off playing him though, which is cool.

O787td6.jpggallery_38474_6916_6036.jpg


#1004
Brother Cristopher

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It must be his full tabard, I suppose. Or the fact that the models is most famous for being in our Codex. Not that I'm an expert, but I personally don't recall seeing him anywhere else (but I got into the hobby in 5th and am not that familiar with older publications). Still, he's a great model - the sculpt shows its age and he is shorter than most newer marines (Primaris notwithstanding), but I'm still sort of proud to have this captain (as well as some other pewter models from that time) in my collection.



#1005
Brother Cristopher

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I'm happy to report that there's progress on the three Marines. I'd say that they're 70% painted. However, I want to share the freehand part of the Black Templars standard I did.

 

Space Marine Banner, personal banner of Marshal Arthur:

 

wL98WHO.jpg

 

As usual in these situations, a photo makes the work look like an eight-year-old's drawing, but I'd lie if I said I'm not pleased with the result. From a normal perspective, it looks decent and is mostly to my liking. I'll maybe tweak a thing here and there, but I need to get a new brush first since my current "workhorse" doesn't hold the tip as well as it used to. What do you think about the banner?


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#1006
Hawklynn

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That is some amazing work. I think I need this for my "inspiration" folder. 


Black Templars: 1-1-1 
 
"So stuff like the Power Axe on the Sword Brother being overcosted and inefficient just isn't relevant to me!
What matters is that it's an angry Space Knight wielding a Big censored.gif Axe!" - HighMarshalAmp

 
"They killed Fritz!"
 
 
 ETL_Medal_06.gif ETL_VI_Banner_02_Oathbraker_.jpg

#1007
Marshal Wolfhart

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That is wonderful!


No Pity.

No Remorse.

No Fear.

 

Spoiler

 

ETL VI Banner 02 Oathbraker

 


#1008
falcongek

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Nice models.

The banner is striking.


ETL VI Banner ETL VI Magister Faction Astartes

 


#1009
SWORD BROTHER RYAN

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As always, impressive. I'll need to take this inspiration and (maybe) finish my own as well!


SUFFER NOT THE UNCLEAN TO LIVE!

UPHOLD THE HONOR OF THE EMPEROR!

ABHOR THE WITCH, DESTROY THE WITCH​!

ACCEPT ANY CHALLENGE, ​NO MATTER THE ODDS​!

 

bRbhJY6.gifgallery_38474_6916_3702.jpg

 


#1010
Brother Cristopher

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Hello! Since I really enjoy our BT community here, I just wanted to check in after a long break and let you all know that I'm still around. However, I must confess that I were really close to selling all my 40K stuff and closing this chapter of my life once and for all. Hopefully, soon I'll be posting again, including pictures of progress. For now, I feel I need to share some thoughts in a bit of a longer and more personal post.

 

Introduction

 

I must say that currently I'm enjoying a surge of passion for the hobby which, paradoxically, results from an absolute loss of passion for Warhammer 40K. Allow me to briefly explain myself and vent some frustration. At present, it is clear to me that GW does not care for me. While typing this, I realised that this sentiment may render me as a juvenile and entitled douche... I'll maybe stop here and will hope for your goodwill: believe me, I still like a Warhammer 40K (i.e. a selection of aspects of the universe that I like), I just currently don't want to have anything to do with GW.

 

I am aware that GW is a business and from what I'm seeing 40K as a whole is doing well, but there is nothing form me in all of this.

 

Part I - The 'Rant'

 

Firstly, since I'm not interested in Primaris, there are no new models I'd like to buy. What is more aggravating, the models I bought (despite not being sure whether I like them) such as Centurions and Stormtalons are rendered useless in the game. Luckily, I have miniatures to assemble and paint, so purchases are not my concern.

 

Secondly, I take much issue with current "rules" construed as broadly as possible. While I initially liked most of the streamlined rules of the 8th edition rules, the evolution of the meta, which in my experience favours shooting and magic, made the game rather unenjoyable. The game becomes bloated again, with its push towards unrestrained list optimisation (i.e. mixing factions, detachments, stratagems) and the questionable updates requiring players to buy more books to have up-to-date rules (you can easily infer, I'm not a fan of this system which brings to my mind the most deplorable practices in video games). While updating and balancing the game is in theory a commendable idea, GW's execution leaves much to be desired, in my opinion. Especially that their promises of "the best" and "most balanced" edition come to nothing for me, personally. The army I've chosen has been gutted and the rules are a disgrace. Luckily, the lacklustre rules for Marines saved me a lot of money. Sure, I could be excited for the new Custodes and Imperial Knights releases, but why should I if my main faction is neglected?

 

Thirdly, and briefly, I'm don't appreciate the new fluff. Gathering Storm was promising, but turned into a mess and this trend continues. 40K becomes cheesy, but in the bad sense. It always was cheesy, but I found it more fun and/or palatable. Maybe I'm just getting older or grumpier, or whatever...

 

Part II - Being Proactive

 

Coming to these realisations, however, has its advantages. I don't waste time on following new releases and promises, so I can redirect my attention to other aspects of the hobby. Likewise, I'm not longer browsing online auctions to buy new miniatures. In result, I have way more time (that I don't have) for painting and other hobby-related passion projects.

 

During my break from the hobby, I developed a new method of painting my Marines. The results are rather consistent with my previous work, but the process itself is a bit faster and a lot less frustrating! I also realised that building plasticard 40K vehicles is not primarily a way of getting cheap models, but is in fact an activity I simply enjoy. With my newfound indifference to the ever-changing (and unpredictable) rules, I no longer care about a tank's or flyer's potential on the gaming table and can therefore enjoy assembling a model for the sake of its looks and/or fluff.

 

Whenever I'll be able to extract some time from 'real life' for hobby purposes, I want to get back to assembling plasticard models. I need to make up my mind what to build, however. This is where I'd love to hear from you.

 

I would badly like to have a Space Marine Super-Heavy, either a Mastodon or a Fellblade. I like the models and they appear to be fun to build; however, they are quite large which raises storage problems. But, what is more important, I'm not sure they fit my idea of Space Marine combat operations (I might start a separate thread devoted to this since I'd love to read other people's thoughts on this). I imagine that Space Marines and the Black Templars excel (let me use the present tens, as if they are real) are meant for precision strikes, commando-like operations and close combat - they are deployed in a place, execute their mission, and exfiltrate; due to their elite nature, in larger conflicts they are "only" an auxiliary force. After all, their enhancements are there to boost their strength, agility, endurance; their armour and weapons are also designed for this purpose. Using Space Marines to operate super-heavy vehicles seems like a waste of their combat potential; let other Imperial forces who specialise in specific tasks deal with them and let Marines be the rapid strike force they are. I hope the outline of my conception makes some sense. In consequence, I don't think a tank as large as a Fellblade or a Mastodon truly fit a 40K Space Marine army (I don't take into account the Space Marines of the Horus Heresy, who had a different organisation structure and combat role). A Thunderhawk would be an exception to this rule, however. The flyer allows rapid deployment of troops and offers significant mobility and firepower. It also is THE Space Marine super heavy, an iconic vehicle that was there for Marines long before FW decided to capitalise on the progression of the game's scope to a format once referred to as "Apocalypse".

 

So my questions are this: should I kind of disregard my own thoughts about the cool-looking Fellblade and Mastodon and start building one (Just for the sake of fun of assembling it and later having one in my collection. Another tiny aspect to consider is their utility on the battlefield.)? Or should I finish something I've started?...

 

... since it's also worth noting that I have 3 projects under way:

 

1. A Thunderhawk (more on it later), 15% finished

 

2. A Caestus Assault Ram, 70% finished (if you open the image, please ignore the turret on top!)

 

3. A Land Raider of some variant, 10% finished.

 

The Caestus and Land Raider are doable in a shorter time frame; they are also cool models that I could one day use on the battlefield (I've not given up on the dream of actually playing the game one day yet!). They are also the more reasonable picks for the next project.

 

The Thunderhawk is actually something of a special project. This was my first (and ambitious!) attempt at scratchbuilding. A gateway drug of sorts, that got me hooked and brought me to where I am now. Two or three years ago I decided to abandon the project alltogether since the flyer was and is useless in the game; Fellblades and Mastodons are so much more efficient and deadly, right? But neither super-heavy is a censored.gif Thunderhawk, a Space Marine ClassicTM. Now, I'm ready to revisit that decision. For one, I thought about what I summarised above - despite the Thunderhawk underperforms, it feels right. But I also found in a box the bit I've finished - the troop bay - and felt a surge of pride and nostalgia. I decided to reupload the images I've taken during assembly. This is what I have:

 

dxdxY4Q.jpg

 

If you're interested in more photos, please visit the gallery at: https://imgur.com/gallery/8NVeicU

 

I'm looking forward to reading your feedback. Both regarding the hobby in general, but probably specifically... Just convince me to build the censored.gif Thunderhawk (or something else)! I'm really torn here and I'm struggling with the "three 'toos' paradox:" too many ideas, too much cool stuff and too little time.

 

Thanks for reading! And please comment!

 

What I also need to do now is get up to date with your crusade threads!


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#1011
Hawklynn

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I know how you feel, I really do. A year ago I "retired" from a L.A.R.P. that I had been involved with for twenty one years. There were a lot of factors in that decision, but the largest one was the newest rule set that the game is now operating under (and it too is an 8th edition rule set (do you see a pattern?)) completely changed the way the game is played. It was hard for me to just walk away, but I did.

 

I came to 40K, and the B&C, looking for something that I could do that was constructive, fun, and had a good community (that is not a facebook cesspool of scum, villainy, and twelve year olds with foul language). Just shy of being on the forums for a year now I look back and realize that I made the right decision.

 

In regards to "Part 1", I totally get it. When that thing that you have worked so hard on gets ignored, "nerfed", ignored some more, added bonus that does not actually help, ignored, it can be really hard to maintain an interest in the overall aspect. That is, unfortunately, something that only you can deal with and make the call on. The only reason I have any primaris is from an army purchase I did that had the units in it already painted and ready to go. But still, I am not sure I like them, their fluff, or the fact that looking for perfection for several millennia seems a bit on the "Warp" side of things to me. This is a battle that only you can win. 

 

In regards to "Part 2", do those things that make you happy. Finish that Thunderhawk. Unfinished projects always have that "What if . . . " feeling to them. Even if it only ends up being a center piece on the shelf, finish it. I guarantee that you will feel better about it. From what I saw in the pictures you have an amazing talent for scratch building and I really do look forward to seeing what else you can come up with, BUT FINISH THE THUNDERHAWK!!!!

 

As to the other issues stated in "Part 2", this will be two pronged (real world experience and thoughts on BT specifically):

 

1. As a USMC (which was originally based off the BRM) veteran, I can attest to the fact that we will use any weapon we can get our hands on to beat the enemy and complete the mission. Marines are amphibious fighting forces that also have access to tanks, planes, artillery, rapid response vehicles, etcetera. If it is a tool that can get the job done, we use it.

 

2. BT loves to get in close and chop the enemy to bits. It is our thing. How can the enemy truly know the Emperor's wrath when being shot? It takes a bolt pistol to the face and a chainsword to the chest to fully get the point across. With that said, I believe that we are Zealous!, just not Stupid Zealous. We accept any challenge, no matter the odds, but that does not mean that we wantonly throw away our marines lives. With the exception of witches, there is nothing in the armory that we cannot really use (as far as I know). Assaulting an enemy held Control Point? Soften it up with some whirlwind missiles. Enemy hiding behind a wall, break out the vindicator. If we can use it, we should. I, personally, do not feel that we should limit ourselves. Keep in mind that with SM armies, especially BT, tanks and other vehicles are support elements for the infantry. Heavy ordinance can do massive damage to the enemy and still leave enough for the choppy marines to get to have some fun. A super heavy like the Fellblade has its place in our army because it helps get the job done. It covers the advancing infantry, can act as the distraction carnifex (if they are shooting that they are not shooting your infantry), and puts out damage that can ensure a sound victory without an unacceptable loss of your own models.

 

I hope you do not lose your love for what you do. Your work IS an inspiration here and I really do look forward to stealing (acquiring?) more of your ideas.

 

In closing, FINISH THE THUNDERHAWK!


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Black Templars: 1-1-1 
 
"So stuff like the Power Axe on the Sword Brother being overcosted and inefficient just isn't relevant to me!
What matters is that it's an angry Space Knight wielding a Big censored.gif Axe!" - HighMarshalAmp

 
"They killed Fritz!"
 
 
 ETL_Medal_06.gif ETL_VI_Banner_02_Oathbraker_.jpg

#1012
Dark_Jober

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Oh Brother... you have an amazing collection and I have to say your painting techniques are really nice.

I'm not at home but this weekend I promise to dive in the pics and comments.

I love 40k universe but I think Rulebooks (or codex, or both) aren't brilliant, I never liked the game experience or even the ruleset. But well... this hobby is more than playing! Dreaming, imagining, painting... ;)
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"I have dug my grave in this place and I will either triumph or I will die!" - Chaplain Grimaldus, Hero of Helsreach.

 

"The galaxy is the Emperor's, and anyone or anything who challenges that claim is an enemy who must be destroyed." — High Marshal Helbrecht at the Battle of Fire and Blood.

 

 


#1013
robofish7591

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If there are aspects of the hobby that you don't enjoy, feel free to ignore them.  If you find that you enjoy scratch building (which you are really good at, seriously!) then do that, actually playing the game is only one part of the hobby.  If you don't enjoy 8th's rules, are there any people around you who feel the same way?  Maybe they would be up for playing an older edition that is more to your liking?  In the end its a hobby and it should be enjoyable, if it isn't then change it so it is. 

 

 

Also... finish the Thunderhawk!


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Robo's Anviliarium - My Iron Hands WIP thread

gallery_84735_14657_41554.jpg


#1014
Brother Cristopher

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I know how you feel, I really do. A year ago I "retired" from a L.A.R.P. that I had been involved with for twenty one years. There were a lot of factors in that decision, but the largest one was the newest rule set that the game is now operating under (and it too is an 8th edition rule set (do you see a pattern?)) completely changed the way the game is played. It was hard for me to just walk away, but I did.

 

I came to 40K, and the B&C, looking for something that I could do that was constructive, fun, and had a good community (that is not a facebook cesspool of scum, villainy, and twelve year olds with foul language). Just shy of being on the forums for a year now I look back and realize that I made the right decision.

 

I'm sorry to hear about the LARP. Twenty one years seems like a really long time. A time long enough for things to change drastically. It is rather depressing to witness or learn about communities which degenerate over time due to influx of 'new blood'. Luckily I don't have too much first-hand experience with toxic online communities. On principle, a decline in quality of argumentation may be seen in the social media, but I suppose that's grossly off-topic here. This is why I'm that more happy and impressed by how the B&C is holding up.

 


In regards to "Part 1", I totally get it. When that thing that you have worked so hard on gets ignored, "nerfed", ignored some more, added bonus that does not actually help, ignored, it can be really hard to maintain an interest in the overall aspect. That is, unfortunately, something that only you can deal with and make the call on. The only reason I have any primaris is from an army purchase I did that had the units in it already painted and ready to go. But still, I am not sure I like them, their fluff, or the fact that looking for perfection for several millennia seems a bit on the "Warp" side of things to me. This is a battle that only you can win.

 

This also partly relates to what Robofish posted.

 

My biggest issue with the current rules for Marines is not that they are subpar and non very competitive. I can live with the inherent imbalance of 40K*; I don't mind losing games as long as they are enjoyable**. I am saddened by the fact that the rules I was given drastically changed the product I initially have chosen. Or to put it less capitalistically, that I am unable to recreate the play style that is a part of the BT fluff and that I enjoyed so much back in my golden age of gaming in 5th edition. Most of the more viable/playable options feel too blue for my taste.

 

Back in 5th, we didn't have anything special or fancy with the venerable 4th edition Codex. But the rules for the edition and meta were not as brutally focused on shooting and psychic powers as they are now. I think that inn consequence the fun lists I run (I've never been a tournament player, I used to run a LRC full of angry Terminators, some Rhinos with an EC and CCW Crusaders, a Drop Pod or two and Land Speeders for fire support.) were competitive enough to put up a fight against anything in the galaxy: horde- and tank-based IG, Eldar with their hover tanks and aspect warriors, Greenskin Waaghz or Tyranids of various breeds and colours, all feared the mediocre Templar! Now I can't find a way to create a reasonable list that could work. The fact that I probably have to discard more than half of the options in the Codex from the get-go doesn't: Primaris for idealogical reasons, Land Speeders, Centurions, Stormtalons and Drop Pods for their point costs Librarians because, you know.

 

I also don't have anything against people who like the Primaris models. For me, I struggle to find them appealing, although I must say, were I not so annoyed with GW, I'd buy at least 15 Primaris for conversion purposes. Bigger marines with better proportions are cool. That was probably the conclusion of GW's market research before designing and launching Primaris Marines, but in the end I find their new product to be soulless. The same mark of armour and poses make the monotonousness of the range even more striking than with 'regular' marines. The Repulsor is okay, though a bit too busy, but the Redemptor... I like it very much. So much in fact, that before my "no deal" policy was implemented, I bought one.

 

But thanks to GW's rules I realised that there is much more to the hobby and even took the popular statement here at B&C (i.e. "these are your miniatures, do with them what you like") to a new and "extreme" level (at least for me). The extreme is opening myself to the possibility of using different rules to better represent the army I want to use. I haven't done that yet, but I don't see any problem with writing a list for a friendly game using Blood Angels or Space Wolves rules. I even am on the hunt for a suitable model to base my own "Primarch" on (a count-as Guilliman or whoever will be revived and sold next), a project closely related to the fluff for the Neurode Crusade that I'm working on.

 

 


2. BT loves to get in close and chop the enemy to bits. It is our thing. How can the enemy truly know the Emperor's wrath when being shot? It takes a bolt pistol to the face and a chainsword to the chest to fully get the point across. With that said, I believe that we are Zealous!, just not Stupid Zealous. We accept any challenge, no matter the odds, but that does not mean that we wantonly throw away our marines lives. With the exception of witches, there is nothing in the armory that we cannot really use (as far as I know). Assaulting an enemy held Control Point? Soften it up with some whirlwind missiles. Enemy hiding behind a wall, break out the vindicator. If we can use it, we should. I, personally, do not feel that we should limit ourselves. Keep in mind that with SM armies, especially BT, tanks and other vehicles are support elements for the infantry. Heavy ordinance can do massive damage to the enemy and still leave enough for the choppy marines to get to have some fun. A super heavy like the Fellblade has its place in our army because it helps get the job done. It covers the advancing infantry, can act as the distraction carnifex (if they are shooting that they are not shooting your infantry), and puts out damage that can ensure a sound victory without an unacceptable loss of your own models.

 

You've painted a very pleasing 40K picture there. A Fellblade surely would look cool in such a role, way better than squadrons of smaller, Rhino- or Land-Raider-based tanks. I need to read more about the fluff written for Fellblades (and variants) to see how resilient and powerful they are (the rules for the main gun are not very impressive and its strength could easily be compensated by other vehicles or Initiates bearing heavy weapons); do they stand a chance against a lighter titan unit and how good of a distraction would they make. I basically only know that they are supposed to be rare in the 40th millennium.

 

 

Oh Brother... you have an amazing collection and I have to say your painting techniques are really nice.

I'm not at home but this weekend I promise to dive in the pics and comments.

I love 40k universe but I think Rulebooks (or codex, or both) aren't brilliant, I never liked the game experience or even the ruleset. But well... this hobby is more than playing! Dreaming, imagining, painting... msn-wink.gif

 

Feel free to browse whatever is left of this thread after what happened to Photobucket. I'm very happy to have an opportunity to share my work, the ups and the downs!

 

Dreaming, imagining, painting and assembling is that I enjoy most about the hobby - with a proper mindset, these are activities done privately that no one can ruin. While I complained about the internet and social media at the beginning of the post, these things have their virtues too. Where would I find podcasts and audiobooks to listen to while painting if it weren't for the internet?

 

If there are aspects of the hobby that you don't enjoy, feel free to ignore them.  (...) If you don't enjoy 8th's rules, are there any people around you who feel the same way?  Maybe they would be up for playing an older edition that is more to your liking?  In the end its a hobby and it should be enjoyable, if it isn't then change it so it is.

 

The right people to play with are a solution to all problems. 8th edition on the whole can surely be enjoyable. For example, I played a couple of games with simplified rules, e.g. we ignored most stratagems with the exception of the "core three" in the rulebook because 1. I felt that this is fair since my opponents happened to be waiting for their codex releases at the time or 2. we couldn't bother to remember so many additional rules. The unenjoyable thing is the sense that it's difficult to field a competitive Space Marine force since Marines are now quite unable to successfully deal with both elite and horde armies (at least flamers need a thorough rule re-write!).

 

Overall, thanks for the support! That's very kind of you.

 

And I will START working on the Thunderhawk. And I vow to FINISH it some day.

 

 

* I can understand where arguments that 40K cannot be properly balanced are coming from. Still, it pains me to see that people thoughtlessly agree for the lack of balance to be normal and acceptable. I mean, I 'accept' this state of affairs, but I at least am aware that in a perfect world this should not be the case. After all, GW, a company which is the business of designing games for more than 20 years, charges people for the rules and rules updates and is still unable to do one of their most important jobs - to create at least semi-balanced game. The situation is analogous to ordering a plumber to take care of a dripping pipe joint, paying the plumber for fixing 80% of the problem and a promise of an update of the fix in half a year which ultimately doesn't stop the leaking completely and hearing that there are different types of pipes and materials to consider, but the plumber is happy yo hear your feedback.

 

** Granted, some loses are not fun at all and the game turns out to be a total waste of time, like a game I had this edition against an IG army run by -- who turned out to be --  "that guy". We have a Facebook group for making appointments where I explicitly requested a friendly game (I believe the terms is "beer and pretzels") since I don't care too much for proper gaming and don't follow the releases. The IG list, however, turned out to be quite optimised. In result most of my actions boiled to doing save rolls and putting my models back to the case. To me, games the most fun games offer is when you have decisions to take; unfortunately, the game system deprived me of that aspect of gaming relegating my volition to basically nothingness. An argument could be made that situations as extreme like this are examples of bad game design because the point system doesn't work. Regrettably, the more probable cause was that I didn't take the (what was meant to be a friendly game) match seriously sweat.gif


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#1015
Bjorn Firewalker

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The Thunderhawk interior is well done.

Wolf Scout- Catachan barking toad eggs+ Thousand Sons Marine= Fun! (Wolves of Catachan)
Sisters of Battle+ Fenrisian Beer- Inhibitions- Sanity= Trouble! (Order of the Blazing Heart Rocket Punch Pimp Magnet She-Wolf)

 

Reasons to use the Steel Crusaders ('Codex: Space Marines' supplement): Because you think giving Sternguard Veterans a heavy bolter wtih special issue HEAVY BOLTER ammunition is ALMOST as much fun as shoehorning an Earthshaker cannon into a Land Raider.

 

Reasons to use the Iron-hearted Angels ('Codex: Blood Angels' supplement): Because you think the Librarian Dreadnought needs Furious Charge AND It Will Not Die to beat down a Chaos-worshiping punk and his Defiler, while a Stormraven needs a Vanquisher cannon to beat down this punk's Heldrake.


#1016
SWORD BROTHER RYAN

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Look, I COMPLETELY understand your rantings. This edition is fundamentally broken down at the core rule set, and done so for the novice player that wants to get into the game and not have to think strategically. I believe the biggest problem with it is the vehicle set-up. While wounds are ok, taking the hull facing out and ditching the no effect/glancing/hull penetrating rules away means that there is no reason to maneuver units into an optimum firing location, and no way to better protect your vehicles by presenting their toughest area to incoming fire. I have a lot of smaller rants, but that is what I see as the biggest mistake of this new edition.

 

That being said, I have gotten the new shiny marines to act in fire support roles for my Crusaders. Much love to my USMC brother-in-arms who hit the nail on the head by stating use every tool you have to root out the enemy. I've already tried the new ones (unpainted as yet) in a game or two, and to tell the truth, fire support is the role they do best at (at least Intercessors and Hellblasters). I'm not trying to sell you on them, just pointing out the role they play in MY army. But, it seems that this ED has the mentality of "My gun is bigger than yours, so I win", which leads to a lot of dissatisfaction on my part. I still play once in a while, but continue to hope that in the future, things get better (maybe not until they drop a Ninth Edition on us and force us all to  buy new books!).

 

Until that time, the modeling aspect has my FULL and UNDIVIDED attention. I have to echo the other responders here and plead with you to continue work on the Thunderhawk. That interior is hands-down amazing work, and I love seeing your scratch builds. If I had a good supply of plasticard or polystyrene locally, I'd attempt to emulate your work, but I'll just have to live vicariously through your photos for now. You have a rare talent and I can't wait to see the finished product.

 

Do not end the Crusade due to the business of big business, Brother. Sometimes, you have to fight the battle with the tools you have, not the tools you want.


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#1017
falcongek

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That's a nice collection marines you've got there.

Don't be depressed about sitting there. I'm 43 and want to take a similar pic.ermm.gif

 

There is something profoundly depressing in such army shots. I'm a 27-year-old adult who just spent around half and hour of his life sitting on the floor and arranging his plastic and pewter soldiers on the same floor just to have photographic documentation of the extent of his addiction problem hobby which spun out of control. I decided to do this after wasting some more time trying to make sense of my notes which (in January) specified the exact number of each marines with a specific role and weapon. It appears that Chaos attempted some mischief and there was a chance that the notes are corrupted. And I needed to know the status of my Crusade today, of all days.

 

Now I also learnt that in 20 years' time, when I'm finished with all the painting, I'll need an entire day to take photos of the army.

 

Now the matter appears to be settled. In the near future, I'll do the same regarding Terminators, Neophytes and Bikers. But I'm fairly sure that the last time I counted them, I did it right. There should be 210 Marines in the photo. In addition there are 17 bikes (includign 2 assault bikes), 49 suits of Terminator Armour, 6 suits of Centurion Armour, 25 Neophytes and 6 servitors. After adding pilots and drivers of vehicles represented by models I have, the total number of active Crusaders exceeds 350. These are split into 5 Battle Companies with their own standard, Techmarine, Chaplain, Apothecary, Honour Guard and 2 high-ranking officers.

 

KXGBaTs.jpg

 

I need to finally write fluff for the Crusade and prepare an organisation chart, including custom ranks (variations on the original - with all the 'veterans' in my Crusade, I don't want to have too many Sword Brethren). If you're interested in this, let me know - that'd be a great source of motivation.

 

Now go and finish that yhunderhawk and impress us with your building skills.

Ps I also get where you're coming from. I still lament the diapperance of the termi honours upgrade and I totally missed the introduction of stratagems and am still sgruggeling to get to grips with how to work with those.

 

Keep up the hobby.

Greetz Rinke


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#1018
Honda

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Brother, we have been together for a long time. You are one of the key sources of inspiration on this forum and have contributed heartily to the level of ZEAL manifest among the brethren for many years, especially during ETLs.

 

Do not let "rules" affect your attitude. Rules come and go.

 

ZEAL is forever. That is what defines us, not a set of rules.

 

I would also point out that just recently, one of our brethren took a Black Tide list and did respectably well. Our list still allows us to have fun and enjoy the result, regardless of the outcome.

 

I don't say that to try and change your mind, but there are plenty who would rather bash the tool, then figure out how to use it to its best effect. Before there were Space Marines, there were US Marines. Listen to their wisdom. :)

 

Regarding which model to complete, I agree with you on the Fellblade and Mastodon. They are big, they are awesome looking, but at the same time, outside of the HH, SHTs just seem odd to me (except for certain chapters).

 

The one exception to that of course is our Thunderhawk.

 

I can't imagine a SM player of any color who wouldn't want to have one in their force. I still hold out hope for a plastic version.

 

When your humors are at their lowest, that is when you must grip your sword even tighter.

 

Carry on Brother, Sigismund would expect nothing less.

 

Cheers,


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#1019
Medjugorje

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I am a tournament player - i often play very hard lists. Sometimes against people from ETC team germany ( and i would say - i am not that bad) We should keep our faith and wait. After Warhammer Fest Europe in Düsseldorf i am very confident that we get much greater rules. Look how long orks have to wait,... over one year and they just get a codex right now.... i expect a big new ruleset in the next 2 years for us...


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#1020
Brother Cristopher

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Thanks you guys for the encouragement. What inspires me to a great extent to continue my work is your feedback. It is always a joy to read that some of you find my stuff inspiring; I feel the same when browsing your threads. This is the great part about this community - the mutual feedback and the room for people from all around the world to share their take on the Black Templars.

 

I don't care much about the rules now. I'm a point in (hobby) life where I don't even care about having faith. I'll just lurk patiently to see where GW takes the games and our faction; however, I'll probably be glad to jump on the bandwagon when (or if) the Space Marines or Black Templars get better rules. I also hope to have a more functional collection of finished models by then.

 

I'm also happy to report that I followed your collective guidance and my inner zeal (just sprinkled with a bit of reason, since a Thunderhawk is a fitting addition to any SM force). In consequence, there is some progress with the Thunderhawk! Not much, but something - another step forward (and admittedly two steps back):

 

I am working on the outer armour for the transport bay:

 

ruhJPvO.jpg

 

With so many plasticard project under my belt, I decided to take some shortcuts here and there and save myself a lot of work, as well as put less strain on my arm joints. As a side note, it is funny that such a nerdy activity as building models is sometimes so demanding may cause so much stress if done like I (used to) do, like an ape. Let me explain; the little rectangles appearing as details usually on edges of plates are difficult to cut. In my experience, the recommended way to cut plasticard is to cut and snap - you make a straight line with your knife along an edge and then push it down - if done properly, the plastic sheet separates rather smoothly along the cut. With the rectangles, due to their size, there isn't enough space to do this and you have to cut them by pressing the knife down, through the entire thickness of the sheet. I've learnt the hard way that this puts a lot of strain on your muscles and joints (and probably veins) that is why, funnily enough, I recommend warming your arms up before working with plasticard.

 

To avoid this aspect of the hobby, during my last project I decided to experiment with a new workflow for building. I now build the 'core' of the model out of 1 mm plasticard (like I used to) but use 0.5 mm sheets for the most outer layer with the details. This way I can get the stuff I want done more easily, making the entire process not only less physically demanding, but also quite paradoxically faster (paradoxically, since I have to cut the same part twice, for the base and detail layers).

 

For instance, these panels are 0.5 mm thin:

 

cV4xbEz.jpg

 

Afterwards, I glued them on top of the 1 mm pieces and ended up with nice indents which will pop up nicely after they're painted and break the otherwise flat and boring surface.

 

I also mentioned about taking two steps back. I must admit that over the last two days I spent way more time than I'd like to, considering the progress, i.e. new parts I've made. However, I had to analyse what I did all those years ago and wasted an awful lot of time trying to make the front ramp fit what I had assembled. The angle of the nose tip side panels, while perfectly matched the angle of the transport bay floor, was wrong because it could not accommodate the ramp. There were two reasons for this: first, the ramp was built by an amateur who failed to account for the extra thickens which adds up with extra detail, second the angle at which the nose panels aligned was slightly wrong. After some time and much fiddling I managed to shave off the excess plastic from the ramp and realign the panels with relatively little damage done to the painted elements.

 

At this point, I also must confess that I will be taking a huge shortcut with the ramp - it will not be an accurate copy of the solution from the original and will only imitate the original's looks when shut. The resin Thunderhawk has these interlocking 'teeth' between the ramp and the nose; mine won't, since I don't feel like redoing and redesigning out of fear of ruining my work.


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#1021
DasPanzerIstUber

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Very relatable story. I dropped the hobby completely because I stopped enjoying the game. I didn't sell off my stuff though so I have a lot of bits and pieces to play around with and make what I like. Reading this I actually feel inspired to start up my own thread!

I will be following your project with interest!


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Marshal Recard of the Black Templars 18th Crusade.
"...This is vital in that when all else fails, it is faith that will carry him through to victory. Warriors of faith never shirk from combat but rush forward with heads down and shields up, allowing their glory to carry them into the thick of battle to deliver the first blow."


#1022
Brother Cristopher

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REQUEST FOR FEEDBACK

 

I need some input on the Thunderhawk's engines. Do you think that they are an iconic (and thus integral) part of the model or would you be okay with altering their design?

 

I'm considering a change to the design. I think I might want to cover the central part of the engines with all the exposed pipes, tubes and other detail (the part showing along the length of the wings) with armour, similar to/inspired by that used in more recent designs, faithful to solutions used in a Xiphon Interceptor or Stormtalon (or other Imperial designs): a solid enclosure, with vents that may expose some hidden detail. Something akin to the internal engines on this or a Marauder. I have extremely poor skills in drawing so I won't be able to sketch what I want to and what I want feedback on, but I hope that won't be that much of an issue.

 

EDIT:

 

@Panzer: I hope that you'll start that thread! I also think it's also great that you didn't sell your stuff. I suppose that the models we hobbyists have are often more than GW's product since there's so much work and usually emotions put in them. I highly recommend doing what you like!

 

There's always time to sell your models, but it's way tougher to get them back.


Edited by Brother Cristopher, 06 September 2018 - 07:28 AM.


#1023
SWORD BROTHER RYAN

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Ok, I'll tackle that question from two POV's: one being from the modeling standpoint and one from tactical experience IRL.

 

Modeling:

As these are miniature representations of what is SUPPOSED to be a working futuristic piece of tech, in order to keep the piece interesting to the eye, all the detail that you can cram into the project will aid in this. I'm sure that's a HUGE part of the reasoning behind the official sculpts from GW and FW. The more pleasing to the eye, the more people want to look at them and maybe purchase them sometime in the near future. Also, it becomes more of a challenge to paint, which attracts a lot of the people who buy these. Long story short, detail leads to sales.

 

Tactical Practicality: 

There are a lot of rather sensitive systems and assemblies in every tactical vehicle. In order to function properly, these systems need to be kept in good working order. This is done through a regimen of focused maintenance and protection from both natures elements as well as protection from battle damage. Armor plating will generally reduce the latter (but make it a royal pain for the former!). Looking at most of todays tactical vehicles from any nations military, there is not a lot of exposed machinery. Even the smallest utility trucks do their best to cover their more sensitive systems at least from the elements. Looking at most aircraft, either commercial or tactical, you don't see exposed engines. These are almost entirely covered in some type of cowling just to keep the weather out. Rockets and the former US space shuttles only had the exhaust vents truly exposed. Long story short, cover it all up.

 

Now, as I know you're scratch building, I can see that it would be a LOT of work to faithfully recreate the FW sculpt. It would take a lot of time and probably lead to frustration as you attempt to get it right or to your liking. IMHO, if it were me faced with your choice, I would most likely only detail sculpt bits that can be seen beyond whatever armor plating that you design while doing my best to take a page out of the tactical practicality portion of my now longer than expected rant here and placing armored plating where it would make the most sense.

 

Hope this helps!


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SUFFER NOT THE UNCLEAN TO LIVE!

UPHOLD THE HONOR OF THE EMPEROR!

ABHOR THE WITCH, DESTROY THE WITCH​!

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#1024
Honda

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I'm considering a change to the design. I think I might want to cover the central part of the engines with all the exposed pipes, tubes and other detail (the part showing along the length of the wings) with armour, similar to/inspired by that used in more recent designs, faithful to solutions used in a Xiphon Interceptor or Stormtalon (or other Imperial designs): a solid enclosure, with vents that may expose some hidden detail.

 

 

Do this. Do not overthink it too much, just do it!

 

Go back and look at your rendition of the Storm Raven.

 

It is one of the best designed, best looking of that model I have every seen. I said it once and I'll say it again.If your version of the SR were commercially available, I would sell my three today and get three of yours.

 

You have a very good eye for design. Follow the vision.


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#1025
Brother Cristopher

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Thanks for the support! I take your posts as a confirmation that the idea is not fundamentally wrong; nay, it even is reasonable. That's something I truly needed!

 

@Sword Brother Ryan: The arguments you made are a more developed version of my own reasoning, minus the parallel to real world vehicles. To me, it all boiled down to a. cool look of the original with the exposed pipes/machinery vs. b. 'fluff practicality', with the additional armour protecting essential systems (b. supported by being more easy to build and more in-line with aesthetics of other SM flyers). I'm also quite 'comfortable' with skipping some of the detail since similar design will still be present on the exhaust nozzles, landing gear and the cannon. Tactical practicality it will be!

 

@Honda: That's great advice. I sometimes drift towards overthinking stuff and wasting too much time in the process, just to make sure I get things right only to later discover that the ideas don't work. That's why I'll just roll with it and see where the project takes me. The rough idea is there and that's something! Once again, thanks for the compliment and reassurance! I'll follow my gut. It also only makes sense to modify the Thunderhawk since my other scratch-built vehicles are to some degree unique, according to my background, coming from the Manufactorums of Neurode and adjusted to the harsh siege/urban combat environment. The TH will thus not be an exception.

 

Probably later today, I'll be posting images of the parts I've managed to do in the meantime. Plus, there will be unpublished photos of work I did all those years ago on the interior details. They are not top-quality, but I'm still genuinely impressed by my past determination. As I said, the quality of the bits leaves a lot to be desired, but I find the use of cheap materials (but difficult to process) commendable and impressive. I for sure know that I wouldn't do these things now (since I've learnt new techniques and got better materials) - the process would be extremely inefficient. But the fact I did those things back then still blows my mind. I must've had more time on my hands...

 

I am still working on the front of the vehicle, specifically, the outer shielding of the transport bay and cockpit. It seems I jumped the gun six years ago and now, annoyingly, have to deal with with the consequences. Progress is a bit slower than I'd want because I (feel I) need to be extra-cautious to get things right. I have to make sure that whatever I do now fits the already built and painted part of the Thunderhawk and is "modular" enough to allow priming, assembly/disassembly (in case something is misaligned) and easy access for painting. I regret having painted the cargo bay: there is no way to glue the new parts on top of the existing structure because I won't be able to prime them without the risk of ruining some of the existing paint job. On the other hand, I really can't complain about having the bay painted since this brought me back to this project.


Edited by Brother Cristopher, 09 September 2018 - 12:54 PM.

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