114 replies to this topic

[Kurgan the Lurker]

Allies and what to do with them? That has been the question the staff has been pondering over for well over a month at this point.

The B&C has an identity and while that identity has changed slightly over the years, we are still largely power armor focused (daemons and admech being the exceptions).

Initially when the B&C started we had 7 forums:
Amicus
Blood Angels
Dark Angels
Space Wolves
Ultramarines
Chaos
Liber Astartes

In time we added Black Templar, Sisters of Battle (Inquisition) and Index Astartes because they were all power armor related. Even the inquisition had HQ units that could wear power armor.

For a brief time we even had Lost and the Damned but they went the way of the do-do when the V3 Chaos Codex was replaced.

Each time we always asked the questions:
Does it help or hinder the board to add/remove this?
Does it change our identity and mission?

If the answers were hinder and yes to changing the identity we left it alone.

Admech was our caveat to this initially because they weren’t represented anywhere on the web really (Sisters were in that same boat for a time as well). Eventually the Daemons joined this as we felt even though they are not power armor they are integral to Chaos.

So had our identity changed for the worse? Better?

People still came to the site in growing numbers and for the most part things kept on smooth as before. Did we lose people because of it? Maybe but we gained as many as we lost (many more gained in fact).

In recent years Forge World has muddy the waters with things like the Siege of Vraks and the Tyrant’s Legion. Yes there are some power elements to those armies but they aren’t power armor armies. They are a guard cupcake with power armor sprinkles on top.

So again we asked those questions and decided to stand our ground and not allow those lists on the site. A very small number of people complained (less than 10) to us and in the end we don’t think it has hurt the site.

Now though, GW has muddied the waters a great deal with this allies nonsense. The chart they created for allies is so against fluff it is ridiculous, but stupid or not it is the rules of the game now. So how do we treat this? In past editions with allies we simply said “no power armor so it isn’t allowed” and left it at that. The small vocal groups were upset at first but didn’t take long for folks to get back to power armor talk without much fuss.

Do we keep that tack here or alter course some? Through the discussions one thing was adamant from all, no xenos, ever on the B&C.

Adding Imperial Guard (thereby becoming an “armies of humanity” board), the continuation of the AdMech forum, whether or not to keep Chaos Marines and Daemons (becoming Imperium only) were all discussed as well.

In the end it was decided to hold fast to our identity and remain a power armor board.

HOWEVER this does not mean we won’t let you discuss your allies. You will be restricted to where you can discuss them though.

If your army list is 2 armies currently covered by the B&C as allies then you can discuss them wherever it is appropriate for that. But if your allies list contains armies we do not cover (i.e. Xenos and Imperial Guard) then your lists and how best to use your non power armor allies will be restricted to the Tactica and Army List forums. Obviously full Xenos and IG armies won’t be allowed at all. Nor will a Xenos/IG army with Marines/Sisters/Chaos as allies. Because lets be honest, if you are allying with vile Xenos then your Chapter should be hunted down, destroyed and the ashes used to salt the earth.

A quick example:

Your Ultramarine Army, allied with Blood Angels you can discuss in the UM forum or even the BA forum, Tactica, Army list or where ever the info needed can be obtained.
However your Blood Angel army bro-fisting Necrons can only be discussed in the Tactica or Army list areas. Not in the Blood Angels forum and you certainly cannot post your Necron models on the site.

We’ll give this a go for a few months and if things are running smoothly leave it be. If things are not running smoothly then we’ll change them as we deem necessary.

Feel free to leave your comments and questions in this thread and we will try and answer them as best we can.

Thanks.

-- the Staff of the B&C

[Olisredan]

Sounds like a fairly sensible response to the Allies rules, imo.

[thade]

Good calls all around.

[SickSix]

I concur.

[Disruptor_fe404]

Pretty much what I was expecting, and what I would be in favour of!

[Kassill]

"Bro-fisting Necrons"


I concur as well to these new rulings. I too was wondering how the B&C was going to stand on this issue when I first heard of it. After all, we are The Bolter and Chainsword, not the Bolter and 'Choppa'

[1000heathens]

*shrug*

Figured this was coming. Whatever keeps xenos off this site, I'll agree to.

[Lord_Hail]

This is the Bolter and chainsword, I love using this site for my power armor. I also play tau and use a site for them; I like the fact that the B+C is keeping it's identity rather then jumping on an ally bandwagon. Thank you.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

"Bro-fisting Necrons"

Yes I loved that and a few other quips. Well done Kurgan.

*shrug*

Figured this was coming. Whatever keeps xenos off this site, I'll agree to.

But is that for the Greater Good^TM?

[emperors immortals]

Pretty tough call there, but probably for the best,considering that allies will probably be taken in ways the tactica and lists boards are perfect for.

Necrons brofisting BA is a shambles, GW obviously want gaming circles tp police there own members. Say no to xeno.

[Dark Bjoern]

I hate the allies rules, but this will not prevent that others will use them.
I think the compromise is acceptable.

[Raven Angel]

Question what if you are using Xenos rules to count as something Imperial that has no rules of its own?

[Kurgan the Lurker]

Question what if you are using Xenos rules to count as something Imperial that has no rules of its own?

Isn't power armor so still has no place here.

[cathar the great]

Question what if you are using Xenos rules to count as something Imperial that has no rules of its own?

Isn't power armor so still has no place here.

What if it's Admech?

There are already several WiP threads using DE or other rulesets for count-as Admech armies.

Edited by cathar the great, 01 July 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[Morticon]

[Solid Zaku]

Wonder who suggested to remove the CSM's...? That seemed odd. In any case, keeping things PA related is like Samuel Adams. Always a good decision.

[omo667]

thank you kurgan and plz ban all the user scum who will try to post filthy xenos pics

but what about pictures of allied ig?

i mean: iron warriors with e.g. ig basilisk - is photo of basilisk allowed?

once again thx for clarification

[Chaplain Lucifer]

No IG pictures as well.

[Aegnor]

I've never understood the vehemence of the community here about being strictly power-armour, which I think in some ways is a pity as it is a great community here whose views on a broader range of factions I'd appreciate.

That said, I understand I'm very much in the minority in that view, and I love everything else about how B&C is run, so will happily accede to the wishes of the Admin/Mod team in this regard. In that sense, this seems like a good set of principles.

[Koremu]

Can I query the status of Liber Victorum & Official Rules (as regards armies which are Power-Armour led but contain non-PA allies)?

Edited by Koremu, 01 July 2012 - 10:33 AM.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Official rules forum already deals with IG and xenos questions about rules, so no change there.

Edited by Chaplain Lucifer, 01 July 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[Cpt Uriel Ventris]

Totally agree, this site is called the 'Bolter and Chainsword' for a reason.

In recent years Forge World has muddy the waters with things like the Siege of Vraks and the Tyrant’s Legion. Yes there are some power elements to those armies but they aren’t power armor armies. They are a guard cupcake with power armor sprinkles on top.

Because lets be honest, if you are allying with vile Xenos then your Chapter should be hunted down, destroyed and the ashes used to salt the earth.

However your Blood Angel army bro-fisting Necrons can only be discussed in the Tactica or Army list areas. Not in the Blood Angels forum and you certainly cannot post your Necron models on the site.

Also, these point made me chuckle.

[Orphus]

This is good, I was wondering how the B&C would handle the issue. I am happily in the same boat as Lord_Hail.

[sangunius' chosen wing]

I'm not sure it will be a big concern. I mean marines always had the option of adding in some grey knights back in the day and it barely showed up nor did radical inquisition and guard. A few will show up but I think once the novelty has worn off and tournaments restricting elements of it (I'd assume to keep things simple) that it will be rare

[Possessed Marine]

Sounds like a solid decision, I'll support it. I come here for my power armor, for my IG I go to boot camp. For my orks I go to the waaagh.

The only problem that may arise in time is if chaos gets cultists. I think they would have to be included because they would in turn become an integral part of CSM much like how daemons are right now.