Noise Marines in 6th

[darth_giles]

Jeske, what part of "or Heavy 3" is so hard to understand? You can't get a third shot out of a Storm Bolter no matter how hard you squeeze it, and the Psycannon still has to roll to hit when Overwatching.

[Ethrion]

the thing is GK do the same only for less points . psycannons are better then blast masters even with the template change . SB out perform Sonic blaster[for less points , or they realy out perform them being str 5 and glancing rhino class to death]. i6>i5. we have the syren which is in deed awesome , specialy if someone doesnt know it exists. But they have more utility hammer hand makes them str 5 and cant be countered anymore , nor can force weapons be . they can put their fist[or rather will] on a dude that cant be challanged. and what is even more important they dont have any limitiations as what to take if someone goes after a fluff list . EC/NM are still have 2 units in the whole dex 5 if someone counts DPs, lords and sorc , GK have a whole dex .

Point is though we ain't playing GK or whoever...we're playing EC and noise marines so this is what we have to deal with and as such under 6th ed. our noise marines have got better. It's irrelevant if other codexes are better, frankly we know they are...but this isn't a comparison thread.

[the jeske]

you know I would agree with you if A . we had less options then GK to deal with flyer builds and B GK were a niche army not offten played. When two armies are identical in mechanics , but one is wide played [so people prepare to counter it] and the other one isnt [because it has weaker rules] , then the second one did not get buffed.

 

I mean were are the only army right now that has problems with dealing with mecha.

 

ou can't get a third shot out of a Storm Bolter no matter how hard you squeeze it, and the Psycannon still has to roll to hit when Overwatching.

then one when str 5 actualy does glance stuff and has easier time wounding t5 stuff [which will be spamed this edition because of the ID changes] , unlike sonic blaster which are in deed hvy 3 . And yes psycannons are overwatching and hiting on +6 unlike a syren , but to out perform psycannons we would have to get 2 syrens per squad we dont get that unless we take lucius . And that is just normal psycannons not the paladin ones .

[Excessus]

Jeske, last I checked this was a Noise Marine thread, not a GK cheese thread...

 

If you can't contribute in other ways than saying "but GKs are better"(like we don't already know that fact!), then shut the f**k up boy!

 

 

On topic: Yeah, the changes to close combat and cover saves actually got me pretty curious about NMs, though so far I have almost only faced off against things with lower initiative like Necrons or Orks, but I'm definitely going to try them out before our new codex hits! They seem a bit more worth it with the new rules than before...

[Ethrion]

I was thinking, partly out of necessity and partly out of how my noise marine list works anyway, is that for me 6th ed will all be about infantry. I'm dumping my rhinos (for now at least) and sticking to as many MSUs of sonic blasters and blastmasters as possible. With a power sword and doom siren in the sonic blaster squads that should be pretty decent in terms of firepower and cqc ability. I don't use any of my fast attack slots at the moment so for air cover I was thinking of using 3 hell talons. 2 twin linked auto cannons on each isn't too shabby.

[darth_giles]

I wouldn't totally knock Rhinos. They're going to be useful for getting your squads to objectives, even if they don't last very well. You might end up needing them against an incredibly in-your-face army like the BA. I wouldn't take a full-on 3.5- era rhino rush, though. I'd put maybe half your scoring units in them (and trust me, we'll NEED scoring units in the new meta) and then use them to drop off squads on objectives.

 

Course the only other places I'd be inclined to use a Rhino for is for trying to Linebreaker with an outflanking Chosen squad (and a shooty Chosen squad at that, not an assault one), or to deliver a Havoc squad somewhere if your local meta has large tables- 4x8 or bigger. Havocs in a 4x6 don't really need it.

[Schultzhoffen]

Noise Marines ARE NOT too expensive. Compare them to Sternguard -priced the same but higher Initiative and they are troops.

 

Sternguard might (?) be (slightly) more flexible (but will pay more for this flexibility -basic SG is 5 points more expensive than a basic NM) but (unless Kantor is HQ) can not score.

 

Noise Marines are an excellent unit. A Power Sword on the Champ is an outstanding buy.

[makesomenoise]

I laughed so hard I think I pee'd a little.

 

Also any unit aside from vehicles can take an icon of slaanesh, the emperor's children are an entire legion even if they are busted up and can use many units that aren't noise marines.... we just like them the best =)

 

I don't get this whole "if you don't know it exists" logic. Like i know power armor and bolters exist and they still save on a 3+ and hit on a 3+ (generally) knowing you have to charge into a doom siren doesn't make it go away it just lends you to putting your commanders in the back row, which is what you should be doing anyway. Or a V formation with a clear line to enemy models with your doom siren and other models technically closer for wound allocation purposes.

 

Meh that's all playstyle. Glad to see this forum poppin after 6th though =)

[Ethrion]

I wouldn't totally knock Rhinos. They're going to be useful for getting your squads to objectives, even if they don't last very well. You might end up needing them against an incredibly in-your-face army like the BA. I wouldn't take a full-on 3.5- era rhino rush, though. I'd put maybe half your scoring units in them (and trust me, we'll NEED scoring units in the new meta) and then use them to drop off squads on objectives.

 

Course the only other places I'd be inclined to use a Rhino for is for trying to Linebreaker with an outflanking Chosen squad (and a shooty Chosen squad at that, not an assault one), or to deliver a Havoc squad somewhere if your local meta has large tables- 4x8 or bigger. Havocs in a 4x6 don't really need it.

 

Yeah I'm sure rhino's shouldn't be totally written off but the last battle I fought i wasted 30 BA assault marines from shooting and cqc with sonic blasters and power swords. 3 sonic blaster squads and 3 blastmaster only squads was plenty of troop choices at 5-6 marines per unit. Backed up by obliterators (see: heavy noise marine unit) and 2 units of chosen with 4x plasma guns and a melta gun to outflank and line break. Worked pretty good without armoured support, though I'm sure I might need tanks in some situations. I'm just heavily dissuaded from them these days what with hull points being so easy to strip.

[Muskie]

I was working on an army list that had troops devoted to every god, now with the rumor that marked rhinos can only transport troops with that mark and that every vehicle for a cult unit gets the mark. Well that worries me. I'm reconsidering including a Landraider possibly the new rumored Landraider which holds more dudes. I'm also still considering a Storm Eagle, the bigger Forgeworld bird. It holds over ten models but unlike everyone else I wouldn't put the twin-linked lascannons on it for affordability...

 

As for Noisemarines, I'm thinking with the eye of gods rumor and just the boosts to unit champions in 6e, that I will probably bring more unit champions even on units such as Noisemarines which I used to camp.

 

I probably will run one squad of cultists for variety, but I'm not sure what role they can perform best other than cannon fodder/meat shield. I agree about Defilers I'm not sure if I have points for two of them. I'm tired of rumors especially since consulting my watch it is September now. If they are Elite cult troops become less desirable in missions where you need Troops to take and hold objectives, perhaps with cultists being so cheap you'll see minimal troop armies. At the recent NOVA GT Demons came second so perhaps allied demon troops will be very common...

 

I want to play pure CSM at least for a while, but I'm not sure pure one cult armies will be that feasible with the addition of 'flying circus' builds and other extreme builds. Depends on how great the 'dragon thingie' is I guess. I'm reconsidering the walking sonic blaster squad led by some champ, leaving camping duties possibly to cultists with the all mighty heavy stubber, which is little better than a storm bolter...

 

No one have pure Slaneesh ideas involving cultists and demon allies or just noisemarines with vehicles?

[heralds of excess]

I guess most people are just waiting for the codex drop to see what they'll do, but i'll personally still run my multiple small squads with support, (hopefully getting sonic's back on my vehicles and dreads although i haven't heard anything about that... )

 

I can see myself including cultists as the current models look great but again it'll probably just be in a cannon fodder/ meat shield role. Hopefully cult units don't get shifted into elites unless we get to take them as troops with a lord of the same mark ala 3.5, otherwise my armies going to take another serious hit...

[Muskie]

Nothing in the new FAQs to help Noise Marines? Flying Monsterous Creatures seems to be a bone thrown to people still running chaos for the week or month until they release a new codex.

[Moap]

I thought I read somewhere they changed Sonic blasters to Salvo 2/3. But that might just be a rumor for the next book. Either way Sonic blasters are great, just... not for a 5 point upgrade like said countless times before.

[Sersi]

The rumors have a basic Noise Marine at 16 pts and + 5pts for the Sonic Blaster. So, just 1 pt more than if Sonic Blasters were free under the current codex. Then you have the Champ coming down in price 5 pts, and the Blastmaster being 15 pts cheaper. I'm more concerned with the loss of flexibility due to salvo. I'm having a hard time seeing the need for a champion and a Doom Siren if the rumors are true. Just sit in cover and shoot the other guy to death.

[techsoldaten]

The rumors have a basic Noise Marine at 16 pts and + 5pts for the Sonic Blaster. So, just 1 pt more than if Sonic Blasters were free under the current codex. Then you have the Champ coming down in price 5 pts, and the Blastmaster being 15 pts cheaper. I'm more concerned with the loss of flexibility due to salvo. I'm having a hard time seeing the need for a champion and a Doom Siren if the rumors are true. Just sit in cover and shoot the other guy to death.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/p/chaos-space-m...ompilation.html

 

Complete compilation of the rumors, including changes to Noise Marines, sonic weapons and pricing.

 

It sounds like Noise Marines + Aegis defense line is almost impregnable.

 

Salvo is not as bad as it sounds, it really just means you get to shoot farther and more often when you stay still. It's still pretty similar to the assault profile for sonic weapons in the current codex.

[Stormbrow II]

Blastmasters at 25 points? I am intrigued. And also glad that I managed to find some spare ones lying around. That and I can play Gangnam Style on repeat endlessly in order to disorient my opponents in true NM fashion. Bam!

[Hannibal.Lictor]

Now keep in mind this is based off of the rumor mill and what I can extrapolate from the fine *cough, cough* photos people have posted, but this is what I think I'll be running:

 

CL with MoS gear...unkown

Sorc MoS LvL 3 (maybe a DP, but we will see)

 

NMx3 sonics and master champ with DS and PW

Cultistsx2

 

That much I know. Look at the the malediction from the Slannesh powers list. Thats going to make the sonics S5 and the BM S9 blast. I will most likley either bubble wrap my CL an sorc or put them in a unit of chosen/termies. Not sure, but the core of my army will be that salvo and cover ignoring shootie dudes.

[Xenith]

Whoa, irrelevant necro.

[techsoldaten]

That much I know. Look at the the malediction from the Slannesh powers list. Thats going to make the sonics S5 and the BM S9 blast. I will most likley either bubble wrap my CL an sorc or put them in a unit of chosen/termies. Not sure, but the core of my army will be that salvo and cover ignoring shootie dudes.

There's a good write up about the case for using Noise Marines on another board:

 

http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/viewtop...=43&t=86152

 

There is a mathhammer argument for why Noise Marines are so much better than Thousand Sons in 6th edition about halfway down the page. I am still trying to decide if I agree with all the points he makes, but here's the jist of it:

 

- A squad of 10 Noise Marines, running with 9 Sonic Blasters, 1 Blastmaster, and an Icon of Excess is very shooty.

- They cost less than a similar squad of TSons.

- Against TEQ, they will cause an average of just under 2 wounds shooting per round.

- Against MEQ in cover, they will cause an average of 5 wounds shooting per round.

- Against GEQ, they will cause an average of 14 wounds shooting per round, which is a lot more than TSons.

- The 24 inch range of most Noise Marine guns is excellent and gives them more shooting changes than TSons.

- The FnP rule reduces 1/3 of the wounds they will suffer, they will survive longer than TSons most of the time.

- Putting Noise Marines behind 4++ cover makes them very hard to kill, even with plasma.

 

This made me wonder about the actual battlefield role for TSons, and whether there is a combo for them we are not seeing. It also made me think a little clearer about Noise Marines and how they can be used in the 6th edition. They appear to be the strongest anti-infantry unit in the game. I am working on some comparative mathhammering for Havocs with Autocannons and Chosen with Plasma Guns for comparison, will post those numbers once I have them together.

[Ethrion]

Had my first proper game using my EC today and I have to say the noise marines performed very decently.

 

With a squad of 20, an icon of excess and all with sonic blasters I camped them out in the middle of the deployment flanked by units of 20 cultists. When Coteaz in a landraider drove up with a unit of deathcult assassins inside I multi-melta'd the raider with obliterators then next turn before they could charge I cast symphony of pain on them and hit them with S5 sonic weaponry. Coteaz took two wounds and all but one of the assassins died. They were mopped up by a passing heldrake who baleflamed them into oblivion.

 

It was a nice combo of symphony + sonic to riddle a unit with a **** ton of saves to make.

 

p.s. The heldrake is pure and unadulterated filth....36" movement + 12" S6 AP3 flamer...quite literally death from above. Bye bye power armour squads.

[redbomber3683]

I have yet to see someone mention the fact that the blastmaster ignores cover. Can you say good bye night fight?

[Ethrion]

I have yet to see someone mention the fact that the blastmaster ignores cover. Can you say good bye night fight?

Wow, good point! AP3 no cover saves allowed could get the jump on a lot of power armour. Not even the cover of night will save you from noise marines blasting Justin Bieber songs at you!

[MarshGlyph]

Wow, good point! AP3 no cover saves allowed could get the jump on a lot of power armour. Not even the cover of night will save you from noise marines blasting Justin Bieber songs at you!

That has got to be the single most hilarious comment I've ever heard about Noise Marines in my life! xD

[redbomber3683]

Also it negates Smoke.... it is really powerful now that everything works of cover saves

[Cptn. Palladorus]

They also ignore the Jink saves for skimmers and bikes moving, turbo-boosting, or moving flat out.