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dreads in 6th


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32 replies to this topic

#1
Skoby

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Hi my name is skoby and I'm addicted to dreadnoughts.

In 5th I usually played with a 4 or 5 dread list with little other armour, only rhinos and razorbacks, this was never the most successful list, but it was always a fun game and most defeats were fairly close. With 6th and allies I was planning on having 3 or 4 at 1500 and 4 or 5 at 2k (similar to 5th but maybe sacrificing one dread for more allies) but with the new rules for hull points I can't see dreads surviving past the 2nd or 3rd round and other units could be far more survivable and still just as hard hitting. On paper the only advantage to a dreadnought in 6th seems to be ap1 or 2 attacks at normal initiative. But for TEQ hunting any powerfists left standing will be seriously bad news.

Has anyone used dreads in 6th yet? How did they do? Are there any saving graces I have.missed?

#2
DarkGuard

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I haven't used Dreads. But I have used Rhinos, and against an IG gunline they still made it to Turn 4/5 without dying. Seriously, HPs aren't as bad as everyone is making them out to be. Just flood the board with Dreads and you should be fine.
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#3
Cmdr Shepard

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Consider Ironclads are AV13. It woulldn't be so easy to get glances, Necron excepted, of course :lol:
I like Dreads too but I haven't played them in 6th edition so I cannot share a personal experience.
However if you plan to use dreads flood the battlefield with them, as DarkGuard suggested. It is always the best way to make a particular "build" effective.

#4
LoreDraconis

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Hull points arent all bad. Consider that you now act normally when you're glanced. No more stunlock unless pen'ed.

Also, Dreads dont lose attacks for shaken (they did in 5th, didnt they?) only stunned, so that makes Extra armor better on them. 1-2 on the Vehicle damage chart will keep him at full efficiency. The AP2 AP1 mod on the chard, however, will be a pain.

EDIT: No hammer of wrath! dammit...I must have picked this up from pre-release rumors. sucks, they could have used it.

Then, the fact that Techmarines and MotF can now actually leave the safety of their reinforced ruin without fearing for their lives, means that you might MIGHT actually get to repair them in the field...holy crap.

I think they did take a hit (especially the Ven dread) but noone can claim that they're doomed until we've done a lot more playing.

Edited by LoreDraconis, 05 July 2012 - 04:15 AM.


#5
FlamingDeth

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It looks like they probably took a hit in CC with everyone and their mother able to plant grenades on them, but shooting looks great for them. It's super easy to get them 25% cover, and with the amount of dreads you mentioned you'll be giving your opponent's anti-vehicle fire some serious target priority issues.
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#6
WarriorFish

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Let's be honest, even if everyone said "Dreadnoughts are teh suxx0r now lol u should sell them lol" you'd just carry on using them like a true Dreadnought hero anyway right? :D

Hull Points aren't as bad as the Chicken Littles would have you believe as has already been mentioned, they just need to run with some support to help prevent them getting overwhelmed. However you should have already been running Dreads with some Tacticals (or whatever) as that's how Dreads perform best. There's plenty to say about how our entire codex works well in supporting roles too but that's an entirely different topic.

Finally as with anything saturation is a valid plan. The more you have of something the more diluted your opponent's responses to it are and most armies are lighter on AT weaponry for obvious reasons. Even with 6th shifting to more focuses fire (rather than stun locking vehicles in turn) it still works, so get that table full of Dreads and vehicles to increase their survivability.


Continue to proudly stomp your honoured ancients across the battlefield, fellow Dreadnought enthusiast! :(

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#7
breng77

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I think the biggest nerf to dreads, is not hull points it is the rule allowing units that cannot hurt the dread to simply leave combat with it, dreads used to be able to tie units up forever, and the rules making grenades hit at WS meaning that it is much more likely you will get glanced to death in CC.

That said if You are going to run them I would spam them as you will need lots for some to survive. What might change most is the equipment that becomes common, I think the assault cannon is now going to be standard over the melta on short range dreads as glances are every bit as good as pens, and the heavy flamer may see an upswing for overwatch firing and hurting infantry if they become more common.

#8
Skoby

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I got my copy of the rule book last night so can see the full picture myself and I agree its not as bad as it seems I just have to adjust my tactics (a dread can't just sit there tarpitting marines mashing a few each turn now). I'm thinking it could be great against power weapon units who's extra points cost is wasted against the dread and keeps my power armor guys safer. I've always thought there's a role for every dread and usually mix the weapons up, it can really throw people as they try to figure out which one to target.

I'm glad to see I don't need to consider ditching my dreads, I really shouldn't fall for internet hype.

#9
Cmdr Shepard

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I got my copy of the rule book last night so can see the full picture myself and I agree its not as bad as it seems I just have to adjust my tactics (a dread can't just sit there tarpitting marines mashing a few each turn now). I'm thinking it could be great against power weapon units who's extra points cost is wasted against the dread and keeps my power armor guys safer. I've always thought there's a role for every dread and usually mix the weapons up, it can really throw people as they try to figure out which one to target.

I'm glad to see I don't need to consider ditching my dreads, I really shouldn't fall for internet hype.

Just watch out those Necrons and keep us posted on your Dreads glorious deeds :eek

#10
pyroknight

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What i would consider is adding some sniper scouts to your force.
Snipers now have precision shooting and could potentially snipe a power fist out of an enemy unit before your Dread charges it. If anything is going to glance you in CC, it will be a powerfist. Take those away, and your mostly good to go.

A Vindicar assassin Ally might also be helpful if we can ally with GKs (don't remember).

#11
Skoby

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I do have some sniper scout models but im having trouble fitting all my toys into one list. I will be running Iron Hands with AdMech (GK henchmen) so far my list is looking like MotF, 2 tactical squads, sternguard, 3 dreads, iron clad. Allies: Corteaz, techmarine with psychotroke grenades, 2 henchmen units (one with stormbolter warriors and jokaero, other with mix of DCA, crusaders and flaggelants) and a dreadknight.

All of this comes to 1888 without transports, if I go footslogging I could go with sniper scouts with camo cloaks and sit them in a fortified ruin, but I would quite like some transport, some extra vehicles would keep my dreads safer and get me into the action faster.

#12
Jupiter

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Seriously, HPs aren't as bad as everyone is making them out to be. Just flood the board with Dreads and you should be fine.


Totally agree. I've used a vanilla dccw/AC dread in 2 games now and it's been remarkably, if anything, more useful than in 5th edition. For low-AV vehicles with low(er) target priority like dreads, the occasional glancing hit hasn't been too much of a death knell for dreads.

Time will tell, but for now I think you're fine. Just keep doing what you're doing.
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#13
LoreDraconis

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I will be running Iron Hands with AdMech (GK henchmen)



Damn! that was my idea! :D Let's not tell anyone else about this....

#14
DrakeStorm

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I'v been playing a "MoTF" list sence 4th ed. i played my first game with 6th de rules this weekend and lost 3 of 5 dread 2 of witch where venrable dread in the second turn from glancing shot. so the dread heavy army list are doomed with hall points. im having to rework my army to make it viable for this ed.

i think thay made armour way to weak.

#15
rpnightsend

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Riflemen dreads got a "buff" in a way too. Twin linked autocannons are an excellent anti-flier weapon when they are so few out there.
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#16
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Mortis pattern get AA mount (i think) when stationary, but ive found the heavygunner combo is pretty great (AssCannon and AuotCannon) for midfield, with a LR (cause i take one) or ironclad granting better cover saves.

Then again, my BA are still shredding with those talons - god bless you Sangy!

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#17
spartan249

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I think shooty dreads got a big boost in survivability with how easy it is to get a cover save now. Assaulty dreads took a little hit due to the WS based grenades and the assault ranges being as variable as they are. Couple that with blood talons that aren't able to pierce TDA anymore (I have a feeling that Tactical Terminators are going to become a lot more common soon), and I think the Dreads are now equalized in terms of damage potential.

Either way, vehicles are going down much faster, especially when high ROF armies are doing the shooting.

Now, while it's a relative nerf to vehicles, I think it's a very logical step for GW to take, as I think it reflects how vehicles work in the real world just a bit more. Now, I'd prefer that vehicles either have more hull points or roll to see whether a hull point is lost when glanced, but the concept is a step in the right direction.

Edited by spartan249, 10 July 2012 - 04:32 AM.

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#18
Brother Evar

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Agies defence lines with dreads inside for that sweet cover save I think would be worth tryig.

#19
Skoby

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Had a 1500 point game today, had 3 dreads against necrons so possibly the worst matchup with the new rules but overall went fairly well, I lost but was reasonably close and not down to the dreads, more my bad tactics and unlucky rolls and necrons seem to have quite a few nasty surprises, not just all the glances they can throw out

#20
LoreDraconis

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Agies defence lines with dreads inside for that sweet cover save I think would be worth trying.


Throw in a techmarine (yeah, thats right!) to mitigate the hull point damage, and they may last even longer. It's certainly not difficult to kill a dread in a turn with 3 glances, but with a 4+ save your chances are much improved. You can have the techy manning the quad gun when hes not fixing things, and they're even decent at defending a position against deepstrikers now that they have overwatch flamers and lookoutsir/2+ armor. Might be worth a shot with the newfangled rules. If you play a MotF and dreads, its not too hard to sneak one in.

#21
Kua

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Thread revival.
It’s been two months now for playtesting combinations, so what are the results and how have you decided to equip your dreads?
I didn’t play yet but have problems to think of a role for regular (not shooty) dreadnoughts. What are they good at?

Edited by Kua, 16 September 2012 - 05:39 AM.


#22
maturin

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A few lessons I've learned from running a trio of dreads in my 1500 list, in no particular order:

1) AV13 dreads are worth their weight in gold, since they're immune to krak grenades. Go ironclads and contemptors!

2) CC dreads are still good at tarpitting units. If you've tarpitted a unit that you want to keep in close combat, remember that "We can't hurt it" only applies if they're forced to take a morale check. If your opponent can't hurt you and your dread has whiffed its 2 attacks then too bad, they're still locked in CC!

3) Flyers can get into your rear arc relatively easily. Be aware of their movement restrictions and plan your facings carefully. It may be worth keeping shooty dreads against the back of your board edge to prevent this.

4) Avoid haywire anything. A squad of wyches with haywire grenades will EAT dreads for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

5) Hull points mean your dreads will probably die by game's end, but will be very effective until they do.

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6) Mortis Contemptors are great also....get the Kheres assault cannons.

7) Don't put a Heavy Conversion Beamer on a Contemptor with DCCW - it'll prevent you from moving when you want to. Get the Predator mounted version instead.

Edited by maturin, 16 September 2012 - 06:59 AM.


#23
Kua

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Ah, a nice list! Points 1 and 3 are just what I expected. So do you still use regular dreads with DCCW?
And even more important (cause I need to know it for a conversion now):
Heavy flamer on an Ironclad, yes or no?

#24
maturin

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Yes, but really I take him just for his MM, and put him in a pod for first turn disruption. It's just cheaper to leave the DCCW on - I don't expect him to live to use it.

Yes to the HF, but then again I play Salamanders. :) Depends on your meta - but I find it handy here, with a fair number of foot infantry lists (and more to come with 6th)....

#25
Kua

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Ah, thx. What would you think then about a dropped Ironclad for 1st round disruption? Makes no sense compared to a regular (cheaper) dread because of the Ironclad’s “only” 12 AV on sides? Or because a dread used this way never sees a CC anyway?
Or does it, and what about the h. flamer then?