Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

6th Edition: Ten Game Challenge


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
77 replies to this topic

#51
Chaplain Admetus

Chaplain Admetus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 999 posts
Ask and thy shalt receive, Kabal of Baal! Got a game against Necrons this afternoon, my first game against their new book.

Game 9

Mission: Purge the Alien

Deployment: Vanguard Strike

His list, done mostly from memory: One of the special characters (the one that takes away special rules, and gives a necron unit a special rule); destroyer lord with 2 wraiths, 5 destroyers, immortals in a transport, monolith, warriors in a night scythe, immortals on foot as a character bunker. I won the roll and elected to go first. We both rolled completely useless warlord traits (his making his commander a scoring unit, mine making him use his lowest leadership). Librarian mixed the powers up this time, getting Prescience and Iron Arm.

Posted Image
Deployment. Baal's made its scout move. The destroyer lord and wraiths are in a forest just out of shot on the left. My opponent attempts to seize the initiative, and rather irritatingly does. Uh-oh, I get the feeling this is going to sting...

Turn 1 - Necrons: Everything advances, the destroyer lord derps over a tree root and takes a wound. Shooting unsurprisingly sees the Baal removed from the face of the earth with gauss shots... the extra 2 hits from Tesla weapons is just filthy. The monolith attempts to pie plate the assault marines, but I make most of my cover saves, and lost two. Gauss does nothing as I make a disgusting number of Feel No Pain saves.

Turn 1 - AS: The drop pod with DC deep strikes in behind him, but apparently this makes the Nightscythe ALSO deep strike, in the back right corner. Just what I needed, more gauss. The only way I'm going to get anywhere with this is if I charge now, as there's no cover in the middle, so the assault squad moves fully forward, the librarian having made the devastators re-roll misses, and got Iron Arm. The rhinos advance a little bit. The devastators shoot at the Nightscythe, but it manages to jink away the only hit I score. The bikes shoot a wound off the destroyer lord, and then charge in. The assault marines fail an ambitious 9" charge on the immortals, but I was going to be caught in the open anyway, so I had to try. The bikers win combat by inflicting a wound on the wraith, and passing 2 feel no pain saves against the destroyer lord's warscythe (prompting cries of loaded dice from my opponent :P )

Posted Image
End of Turn 1. Not the start I was hoping for.

Turn 2 - Necrons: The monolith turns its tender mercies to the Death Company, obliterating them from existence with its particle whip in a single mush. Shooting sees everything that can pile into my assault squad, and it gets removed from the table (again, lots of 6s from Tesla weapons doing my nut in). The assault rhino gets reduced to its last hull point. The bikers aren't so lucky with FnP this time, losing the sergeant and a biker, and breaking.

Turn 2 - BA: Everything on my side seems to be falling over, and I can't get near any of the Necron stuff to hit it. The squads both disembark from the rhino, the tacticals to attempt to stop the 'lith with a meltagun as its fully capable of taking a squad a turn, and the assault squad to have a pop at the wraiths. The Devastators open fire on the Nightscythe, hitting it but the blasted thing jinks again. The have-a-go hero with the meltagun hits and penetrates the monolith (yes!), but the monolith is a skimmer. Skimmers have Jink saves. 3 guesses what happened... Shooting from the assault squad brings down a wraith.

Posted Image
End of turn 2. Angels Sanguine are dropping like flies, and I've barely even made a scratch on the Necron army.

Turn 3 - Necrons: Nightscythe dumps its payload, and moves off. The Monolith advances, as do the foot immortals. The destroyers hose my assault squad, the nightscythe kills my rhino. Shooting on the right side from the monolith and both immortals (and the transport) removes the -other- rhino, and takes the tactical squad down to the sergeant, who remains on the field, defiant to the last. The lord and wraith charge the assault squad, win combat, but I hold.

Turn 3 - AS: For honour now, nothing else. The devvies move to shoot the nightscythe, as they're only going to Snap-fire anyway (spoiler alert: they miss). Hero sergeant fails to scratch the monolith in a defiant act of spite, but the drop pod manages to drop a destroyer. Bike charges in, I get wiped down to the sergeant, and the bike, but kill the wraith to pick up a kill point! Huzzah!

Posted Image
End of turn 3. One of the armies is still on the table. The other is not.

Turn 4 sees me wiped of everything but the drop pod. Overwhelming victory to the Necrons.

Thoughts: Necrons really are filthy. I'm apportioning a good bit of blame for the loss to having the initiative seized...I knew I could weather one turn of shooting before combat, but two was going to be tricky. If I'd known I'd be going second, I'd have deployed with that in mind, and certainly wouldn't have scouted the Baal to certain-death range (the intention was to drop that command/annihilation/whatever-it-is barge on turn 1, and hopefully stun the monolith, using the Baal and the Devastators). I was forced to cross open ground to reach him, and that was never going to end well. Things to watch out for: Destroyers are public enemy number 1, with S5 AP3 guns, 2 shots each. Marine killers, and fast enough to get out the way. Tesla weapons are broken, especially with snap-fire...it almost seems as if Mat Ward deliberately wanted Necrons to be able to take unfair advantage of EVERY SINGLE NEW RULE that came in with 6th edition (snap fire, fliers, hull points...you name it, Necrons turn it into a bonus). Snap-firing the nightscythe, with tesla stuff, just made its hits even more potent...very much an all-or-nothing approach.
Positive thoughts... Getting close enough to them would seem to work. They don't look like they'll be overly good in combat, except wraiths. Mixing powers on the Librarian was a good shout, as we'll see in Game 10. I'm really sorry I can't offer much advice, because I just got completely blown out of the water on this one. For next time, I'll know what to priorities and try to make better use of terrain. I knew Necrons were powerful, but I didn't expect them to be this overwhelming. In retrospect, turn 1 I should have just ploughed both rhinos forwards the full 24" and prayed to survive, and that the transports got ruined.

That's me signing off for this evening, but I did get the 10th and final game in today, against an Ork Trukk army. I'll post the last battle report, along with my final overall thoughts on the challenge, tomorrow. You'll be pleased to hear, it was probably the best game of the 10!
The Angel Sanguine - UK Throne of Skulls, October 2012

#52
Kabal_of_Baal

Kabal_of_Baal

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 35 posts
Oooooooooo

:)

...... Admetus, as the one who suggested that particular match up, I feel I bear some responsibility for that. I'm deeply, deeply sorry. I'd heard a friend crowing about how great his 'crons were now, but this, this is just brutal. A valiant effort, though! And I think we can learn things from you bravely putting your army (every gauss-riddled, electrocuted bit of it) on the line. Cheers!

#53
Brother Lorenzo

Brother Lorenzo

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 13 posts
Way to take one for the team! :cuss

What would you say would be the best approach to dealing with such a Tesla/Gauss lathen force? I'm curious to know if a more DoA style assault element would work, as it seems your Devs did allright.

Again, thanks for these invaluable batreps!

#54
CitadelArmyGuy

CitadelArmyGuy

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,143 posts
What a wonderful undertaking, thank you so much for the awesome reports! Great information, and certainly makes me want to try out my own BaalPreds. I applaud your list as I don't run a Stormraven either and will put off buying one unless it becomes a 'must' for a competitive BA list.

Your effort for a full 10-game batrep thread is great. It inspires me to batrep my own 1850pt game coming up this Saturday. Thanks! :D

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#55
eyeslikethunder

eyeslikethunder

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,637 posts

And now I see the error of my ways :P


@eyes: Not entirely sure what this is doing here, but hope you win :P

I was SW mark was BA
Sorry wrong Thread I mistaked it morticons thread I have removed it

I agree Relic does seem too biased to towards who ever has the first turn

SW: The longfangs take exception to my missile launcher combat squad, and with a volley of cover ignoring, miss re-rolling krak missiles, manage to blitz the unit off the table, knocking me off one of the objectives

a nasty combo especially with nightfighting

Edited by eyeslikethunder, 20 July 2012 - 09:40 AM.


#56
Ushtarador

Ushtarador

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,199 posts
Seems like the devastators were rather wasted on the nightscythe. Also, did you not use the signum to get at least one guaranteed hit? Necrons are annoying, but they usually drop like flies in cc. Terminators might be a good option against lots of AP3-shooting.

Stolen initiative is stupid anyways ^^

#57
SnorriSnorrison

SnorriSnorrison

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,536 posts
Hey Chaplain,

thanks for this huge amount of knowledge! It's especially useful for those who don't have the time right know to get n' read through the rulebook(like me :P ), and the pics are take a big role in conveying the spirit of the 6th.

One thing though, I've noticed from the attached pictures of your battle formation that you deploy in one straight line very often - leaving your assault squad without of natural cover(terrain). You might be better of with at least creating some with your rhino/baal.
I know that the cover rules have changed from 4+ to 5+, but you know only need to have 25% of your unit obscured to get that save, right? So it might be better to hide the RAS behind your tanks, two 5+ saves(against plasma/AP3 weapons, etc) are better than only one. ;)
Not sure about the bikes, I think they always have a jink save, don't they?


Against flyers...well, the most reliable thing we have right now(besides the BS 5 shot from the Dev sarge) are Stormravens. At 1500 points, I wouldn't suggest one though. :)



Snorri

#58
Chaplain Admetus

Chaplain Admetus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 999 posts
@Ushtarador...I tried that, but my opponent didn't believe it worked like that, and the staff were unwilling to call it either, so we diced off and I lost. I'm aware that 'crons normally die fast in CC, my problem was not getting there.

@Lorenzo - I reckon DoA might be the way to go, as it ensures they're only going to get one turn of shooting off before the inevitable assault. I think I had misplaced priorities, and didn't use my priest as well as I could (I didn't have him covering the whole army, I had to make a choice between left flank and right flank, and chose wrong). Taking down the AP3 stuff first would have been the way to go. I definitely want my sternguard back, as they're supposed to deal with things like that blasted monolith -before- they can start removing entire squads from the table.

@Kabal - don't worry about it ;). I had to face them sooner or later, especially since I'm going to the October Throne of Skulls tournament, so its better that that particular band-aid gets ripped off sooner rather than later. I'm more annoyed that I didn't put up a better fight so we have a better idea of what works! Priests amazing, cover good, tesla bad, initiative-seizing rubbish :P

@Dark Legionnaire - thanks for the support :). I did want a chaplain in, but decided I'd rather give the bikes a run (as well as wanting another potential scoring unit for The Scouring). I don't think he'd have seen much use, as the DC only got the charge in a few games and they're fearless anyway (this is something I'll be covering in the final summary). And sorry I didn't spot your reply sooner, I can only assume you ninja'd me whilst I was posting battle #9 and I missed it.

@Snorri - (damn you and your ninja skills!) I kept forgetting about the bike jink save... 5+ all the time, 4+ if they turbo. The reason I left the assault squad out in the open is that, by luck more than anything else, I won the roll of for first turn for all 9 games. Since the chance to seize is so low (and not everyone takes the opportunity), I like having them out there where my librarian can lend his support. As far as the cover goes, I've been using the filthy flat out tank moves to block LoS in several games, but it won't always work thanks to the focus fire rule, which my opponents could use to simply gun down the stuff that's not in cover (focus fire in a nutshell: you can choose to focus fire so that only things with a cover save of your chosen value or worse can die. So if there's a unit spread across a ruin and a forest, with a few bridging the gap in the open, you can choose to focus fire on 5+, so only the forest/uncovered models will die, or focus fire on no cover, so that the only things which can die are the models completely out of cover).

Edited by Chaplain Admetus, 20 July 2012 - 11:17 AM.

The Angel Sanguine - UK Throne of Skulls, October 2012

#59
SnorriSnorrison

SnorriSnorrison

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,536 posts

@Snorri - (damn you and your ninja skills!) I kept forgetting about the bike jink save... 5+ all the time, 4+ if they turbo. The reason I left the assault squad out in the open is that, by luck more than anything else, I won the roll of for first turn for all 9 games. Since the chance to seize is so low (and not everyone takes the opportunity), I like having them out there where my librarian can lend his support. As far as the cover goes, I've been using the filthy flat out tank moves to block LoS in several games, but it won't always work thanks to the focus fire rule, which my opponents could use to simply gun down the stuff that's not in cover (focus fire in a nutshell: you can choose to focus fire so that only things with a cover save of your chosen value or worse can die. So if there's a unit spread across a ruin and a forest, with a few bridging the gap in the open, you can choose to focus fire on 5+, so only the forest/uncovered models will die, or focus fire on no cover, so that the only things which can die are the models completely out of cover).


Yup, acquired these skills over a very long career - lurking in the shadows of the BnC. :)

I see your reasons of keeping the RAS in front line - too bad it didn't work out. I've had a lot of those situations in 5th, and very often my Sangguard were in the front line while I was having initiative - it got seized and a vindy shell was dropped on them...that taught me to never rely on a die roll to save your squads -(in this case that the opponent won't seize the init). ;)

Ah, I see...the focus fire rule is pretty damn beardy if used right. Especially when fighting 'crons. Should boost our snipers however(and them Eldar rangers even more - talking about waywanderers (sp?) ).


With the new rules, I've been thinking about Tacs in a drop pod instead of the Rhino - using the Baal to cover an assault squad until it reaches cover. Do you have any experiences with this?


Thanks for the reply.



Snorri

#60
Xenith

Xenith

    ++ NETATOR FEROCIS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 13,125 posts
Pretty sure only fast skimmers get the jink save?

Good report, I also hate tesla.

gallery_58096_11725_17801.pnggallery_58096_14832_1433.gifgallery_58096_14832_1808.gifgallery_58096_11725_17950.pnggallery_29004_9303_844.pngfriday-award.pnggallery_58096_13272_607.pnggallery_58096_13272_2704.jpg

Xenos XX\


#61
Snejk

Snejk

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 461 posts
I've read most of the reports so far and this is really interesting!
I'm wondering about the DC though, how would i fare if it was put in some sort of Land Raider? Would it be too costly and too much of a juicy target?
Considering it coul be Deep Striked (Which in my personal opinion just seems so wrong...) and it is an assault vechicle the DC could assault the same turn it turns up, yes? But maybe that's just usable in bigger games (2250 pts and up) considering the LR it self costs 250 pts.
"No one holds command over me. No man. No god. No Prince. What is a claim of age for ones who are immortal? What is a claim of power for ones who defy death? Call your damnable hunt. We shall see whom I drag screaming to hell with me." - Hunter S Thompson

#62
Morticon

Morticon

    ++ FILIUS VINDICOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 14,232 posts
Bikes get jink too - but (As with skimmers) must have moved in the preceeding movement phase to claim it.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#63
Chaplain Admetus

Chaplain Admetus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 999 posts
Game 10

Mission: Crusade

Deployment: Dawn of War

So, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, astartes and sororitas, here we are at the grand finale. For the last game of the challenge, its the filthy greenskins, and we're playing about as straightforward a mission as it gets. 4 objectives, 2 armies, one royal rumble. The ork list was an all-truk army (except for a solo battlewagon and boomgun. Various mobs of boyz in the trukks, Ghazkull in one, and a warboss in another, with a nasty surprise in the Battlewagon that I didn't find out about until it was too late. The Ork player won the roll and deployed first (ruining my 9-game streak...I wanted to make all 10...). Ghaz's warlord trait gave me -1 to reserve rolls, and my librarian got Target Priority (re-roll to hit rolls of 1 when shooting an enemy within 3" of an objective). I took Biomancy and Divination again, getting the standard re-roll hits power, and Endurance (target gets feel no pain, it will not die, and relentless. Not a shabby power by any stretch of the imagination). Clearly angry after the Necron game, half my army falls to the Red Thirst...the devastators, the combat squad with the missile launcher, and the rhino assault squad.

Posted Image
Deployment. Orks are all clustered around the ruin. As usual, the green diamonds represent objectives. That's the assault rhino on the left of my deployment, and despite stepping as far back as possible I -still- didn't get the whole army in-shot...there's a combat squad in the rhino just in the right hand corner (out of Boomgun range) that's prepared to make a play for the right flank objective... the Baal is in reserve as I want to get shot of the Boomgun before it turns up. No night time, no initiative seizures, and we're off!

Turn 1 - Orks: The orks can't really do much at the moment other than just shift around and fire big shootas sporadically to little effect, taking down a tactical marine from the combat squad. The boomgun fires, and the devastators scatter for cover...the shell takes down 2 missile launchers and the sarge, no signum for me. Thanks to fearless, the two remaining ones aren't going anywhere.

Turn 1 - AS: The Death Company land in the fenced-in area just to the left of the Ork battle line. The bikes move up as far as they can (so to the centreline), before turbo-ing up in support of the death company. The librarian dumps both of his powers onto the two remaining devastators, who take full advantage of relentless to move out to get a shot at the boomgun. The assault squad, having learned its lesson, moves up the left flank behind the forest, whilst the rhino moves up and disgorges the foot assault squad onto the objective in the woods. The tactical rhino makes a beeline down the right hand side of the table. In shooting, the devastators and tactical squad manage to ping 2 hull points off the boomgun and stun it, and I -think- the death company manage to take a hull point off the nearest trukk. Too early for assaults, back to the greenskins.

Posted Image
A shot of the action zone. The stuff out of the way on the extreme flanks isn't doing much at present.

Turn 2 - Orks: The two small trukks (including Ghaz) head off to the right to deal with the rhino and 5 tacticals that are over trying to sneakily get an objective. The warboss pops out of the battlewagon, as do two units of orks from separate trukks. Shooting sees another devastator plinked off, and shots are fired into the death company (including the warboss's combi-flamer) but they shrug it off. The warboss and one unit of orks charge the death company, whilst the other unit charges the bikes. The death company lose several guys, but kill a decent number of orks first, enough to win combat. The other mob wipes out the bikes, giving my opponent first blood. Crucially though, the Death Company win combat by enough to break the orks, who fail their leadership check. My opponent uses the bosspole to off one, but then decides to call Ghazkull's Waaagh! now, as otherwise there's a real chance that the squad (but more importantly, the warboss) will break and be run down, and I'll have some death company running amok on my turn.

Turn 2 - AS: The Baal doesn't turn up; doesn't bother me unduly as I don't really need it just yet. The librarian tools up the assault squad with both powers, and prepares to lay the smackdown on the boyz mob that just killed the bikers. The tactical rhino stakes its claim on the objective, whilst the assault squad moves up the left flank. Shooting sees the pair of missile launchers knock out the boomgun (with "How'z ma drivin'?" painted on the bottom :) ). Combat sees the assault squad charge and obliterate the boyz, whilst the death company are killed, but wound the warboss and take out the unit before they go. 2 boy mobs down, 3 trukks and a battlewagon full to go.

Posted Image
End of turn 2. Sizeable dead piles on both sides.

Turn 3 - Orks: After it just wiped a mob single-handed, the ork player decides its time to get away from the assault squad before it does any more damage. Warboss hops back on his ride, and everything moves off to the right. A unit of boyz pop out of a trukk, and head off after the rhino (apparently, its now time to start recycling the dead pile...first time I've ever seen one DECREASE in size as the game continues!). Shooting...big shootaz kill the last devastator; they'll be playing no further part in the 10 game challenge, but they've done me proud. The orks assault and wreck the tactical rhino.

Turn 3 - BA: The Baal is still lost. Whilst the driver's studying a comically upside down map, the rest of the army decides to do something. The assault squad leap past the pod to get near the action, and the assault rhino comes up to join them. The librarian has both powers again as a disincentive to an Ork charge. The tactical marines on the far right shoot down enough boyz to make them run, and the missile from the combat squad misses. Pistols from the assault squad net me the two remaining 6s I need to strip a trukk of its hull points and turn it into a wreck.

Posted Image
End of turn 3: Appearances are deceptive. The Angels Sanguine appear to have the upper hand, but two of those trukks, and the battlewagon, are still full, and Ghaz is still hanging around.

Turn 4 - Orks: His nibs himself, Mr Thraka, decides to make his appearance and pelts it towards the tactical squad. Trukks advance down the right hand side of the table, and the fleeing boyz rally. Shooting accomplishes precious little (hey, its Orks, what did you expect), and Ghaz charges the tacticals. My sergeant challenges to save the squad a beating...he dies, but the tacticals hold.

Turn 4 - AS: Having finally figured out which way is North, the Baal pred turns up on the right hand side of the table (though with their sense of direction I'd not have been surprised if it'd appeared on the left flank). The librarian gets prescience, but fails endurance on a double 6, and his squad stays put (I'm going to make a play for that objective on turn 5 and not before. If he comes out of the trukk/wagon to take it, I've proved I can walk through an entire mob in one turn, especially if I charge, if he doesn't then he can't contest it). The priest, sensing potential trouble without feel no pain, bravely (foolishly?) runs out of the foot assault squad to provide support by sitting halfway between the two squads. The rhino wanders across the table in a forlorn attempt to make a nuisance of itself. Shooting, and the Baal shoots up an empty Trukk (I chose the wrong one). In combat, we're treated to the sight of Ghaz having a complete derp-fest (he missed with every single one of his attacks), so that's a tie after I don't wound him back.

Posted Image
End of turn 4. Currently the AS are in the lead, with 2 objectives and linebreaker playing no objectives and slay the warlord. However, that's all liable to change in the next few turns, as the Orks have easy access to two objectives, and one of mine (bottom right) isn't what anyone would consider secure. All to play for going into the endgame.

Turn 5 - Orks: Night doesn't fall. The battlewagon and a trukk move round, but nothing gets out to claim the objective. Clearly he's hoping we'll get at least turn 6. The few orks on the far left come back towards the far right objective, and a trukk with boyz in comes forwards and spits them out...they'll be going towards the tactical objective soon. Shooting is ineffective, killing an assault marine or two at most. Ghaz finally wakes up a little and mushes two tactical marines, and the other two break.

Turn 5 - AS: The librarian gets both his powers, so the priest scurries back to the safety of the objective-camping assault squad. The flying assault squad jumps onto the objective, failing no dangerous terrain tests. The Rhino rams the trukk out of spite, but gets nowhere, and the fleeing tacticals rally and shoot down a few orks...its now just 1 boy and the Nob left on that side. The Baal brings the pain and gets rid of most of the orks that have piled out of the trukk, and that's all for me. With 3 objectives under my command, I'm quite happy for the game to end here, but we roll a 5 and it goes on. Uh-oh...I think things could get painful from here if my attempt to grab the early win has gone wrong. The librarian fortunately recovers his wound thanks to It Will Not Die...I get the feeling he might need it.

Posted Image
End of turn 5. The orks look ready and angry to inflict some pain on the heroes of the imperium.

Turn 6 - Orks: Night falls. The orks out of the trukk decide to go after the Baal, as there's no guarantee they'll make it into the tacticals on the objective, and my opponent is fully aware that if they go and don't make it, or do make it and wipe out the tacs, they'll be hosed by the Baal in my turn 6. Ghaz moves in for the kill on the last 2 tactical marines, whilst the 2 orks come to hug the objective. A unit of boyz piles out of the last trukk, as the warboss hops out the battlewagon, which has moved round. Those boyz are now contesting my objective, and the ork player clearly isn't expecting the assault squad to survive the turn. And here's why...in the shooting phase, I find out that the battlewagon is full of burnaz! To quote Red Dwarf... "oh, smeg". A bunch of templates go over the unit, and do a grand total of 41 wounds!
Now, here's where things get silly. My librarian and sergeant are near the wagon, with only one guy between them. Since they'll get look out sir rolls, we chatted it over, with a couple of onlookers as well, and came to the conclusion that we'd have to roll them all one at a time. So much for making the game faster... 5 dice in, the first assault marine falls. We then roll off and conclude that the librarian is closest (there was equal distance so we randomised), and the insanity began. 36 wounds, with a 2+ look out sir, followed by a 3+ armour, and then 5+ feel no pain. 10 minutes later, the librarian's taken a wound, and 4 assault marines are dead. I have no idea how I survived that, but I'm not going to complain! In combat, Ghaz predictably makes a mess of the last 2 tac marines, and consolidates as a shield in front of the 2 boyz. The other boyz mob pulls the Baal apart at the seams. The big boy mob up at the back fails its charge against the assault squad (phew!) and the warboss makes it in, and challenges. My librarian steps forward (I was hoping to sneak a wound in and force weapon him out...for some reason I thought my Hammer Sergeant had died to shooting or else he'd have accepted). Librarian gets 2 hits in, but fails to wound, and is minced by the power claw. My boys stick around though.

Turn 6 - AS: Do or die time. I hold 2 objectives, with the orks holding 1, and one contested. I have linebreaker, the orks have slay the warlord and first blood, and are all but certain to un-contest the objective the assault squad are holding. I'm not guaranteed to have linebreaker either. Movement sees the rhino continue its long journey, and that's all. Shooting, and the combat squad tries to off one of the two orks that are holding the objective, but doesn't manage it thanks to the stupidly good night time cover save. I therefore have to turn my attention to my last hope for salvation: the much maligned, entirely ignored, underperforming Rhino! The storm bolter takes a pot shot, and takes down the last Ork boy. The Nob bottles it, and flees off the objective! In combat, I should have issued a challenge, but don't (this was stupid). The Warboss murders the entire assault squad except the sergeant, who fortunately holds, needing a 5 or less on his leadership check (double 2 ftw!). The upshot of the assault marines dying is that the objective is now uncontested, leaving it free for the orks (if the sergeant had challenged, I'd still have guys contesting it). We roll, and the game ends. Final score: 7 VPs to the Angels Sanguine (2 objectives and linebreaker), 5 VPs to the Orks (First Blood, Slay the Warlord, and 1 objective)

Posted Image
Carnage at the end of the game, as night falls on the 10 game challenge.

Things to take away from the game:
Combining psychic lores is a really good idea. Divination and Biomancy complement each other quite well. With only 1 priest, I need to be careful with my feel no pain bubble. I made the error of not supporting my right flank properly; not a good idea with 3 objectives over there. If the Baal hadn't turned up in the right place, and if Ghaz hadn't had a sudden failure, I could easily have lost. I should have asked what was in the battlewagon, otherwise I wouldn't have been so cavalier about chucking stuff that way...I had no idea something that brutal was inside. I also really messed up with the challenges on turn 6, accepting with the librarian, and then not challenging with the sergeant. To give complete credit to my opponent, I got quite lucky to escape with the win...if the rhino hadn't suddenly come good at the last possible second, we'd have both held two objectives, but he'd have had 2 secondary objectives to my 1.

So, that's the end of it. All 10 games done and dusted. I'm going to go away and re-read all 10 battle reports, and then post a final overall impression of BA units under the new rules, and of the new rules themselves. Thanks for reading!
The Angel Sanguine - UK Throne of Skulls, October 2012

#64
Morticon

Morticon

    ++ FILIUS VINDICOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 14,232 posts
Grats!!

And well done dude.

Im looking forward to your post game thoughts.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#65
Chaplain Admetus

Chaplain Admetus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 999 posts
Ok, here we go. Now that I've done all 10 games, I'll post thoughts on the list overall, followed by some more general musings. I'll start at the top and work down.

Librarian: Never has a 50 point upgrade swung so much. The Epistolary upgrade is now a never-leave-home-without, especially since it allows you to pick from Telekinesis and Telepathy without having dead powers in the lore (the warp charge 2 ones, which you won't be able to use without an Epistolary). I may have failed in my intent to use the BA book powers, but that's because with the nerf to preferred enemy, prescience is just a strictly better unleash rage most of the time, and its a power you can guarantee. I'd still take powers on the list, as sometimes that cover save from Shield will be very important, but I think the rulebook powers just have that little bit more to offer (caveat: Mephiston should probably take codex powers otherwise he's going to be slow as tar, unless you stick him in a stormraven/rhino taxi, in which case Biomancy is painful, but it just feels a little unnecessary).

On that note, psychic powers: Big winners are Divination and Biomancy a close second. Telepathy and Telekinesis are too situational to guarantee getting the ones you would need or want, whereas Divination and Biomancy will always throw something useful. I noticed in the games where I had Telekinesis and Telepathy I wasn't casting nearly as much. My personal recommendation would be to roll up two powers from Div and Bio in whichever combination best suits the mission and opponent at hand (sometimes the re-rolls etc from divination won't be as useful...sometimes you're going to get spanked no matter how much you tool the librarian up with biomancy). Bio seems tailor-made for nids though, so if your opponent has them then that's what I'd expect.

Sanguinary Priest
The feel no pain bubble is on balance about the same as it was before. We get it against AP1 and AP2, and power weapons, but not a huge amount has that and isn't double toughness, the big one being plasma. However, I don't think running two is necessary as long as you're careful where you place the one you have, but if you take one alone make sure he has some degree of mobility and can cover most of the army.

Assault squad (jump packs)
An all-star. Yes, you'll find that random charge range can screw you on occasion, but we did technically get a slight boost to our charge range. Being able to use Hammer of Wrath and get a charge re-roll is also nice, if you're close enough (i.e. within 13" of your target)... 6" move, then needing a 7 on 2 dice with a re-roll should see you right. Any more than 14", and I wouldn't risk it. Mobile, which is what we need, fast, and fairly hard hitting.

Assault squad (rhino)
The ultimate low point. Not being able to charge on the turn you disembark is huge, and I found this out to my cost. They were always slow to get into the fight, and spent more time objective hugging than anything else. Frankly, a tactical squad would do this better as it gets the ranged shots. Their finest hour was either binning the Lone Wolf in game 4, or grabbing the relic in Game 2 and then legging it. Transports may still be a viable option in the form of land raiders or storm ravens (anything they can assault out of), possibly in razorbacks to get them cheap (even though they can't score from them anymore), but their place is definitely not in a rhino. Save that for...

Tactical Squad
Still solid. Being able to move 6 and still fire a single shot is useful. I'd be strongly tempted to take a squad in every list for a little added range support, and objective camping whilst our combat units take the fight to the enemy. A strong choice, but overall beaten out by the jump packed assault squad.

Rhino
Not as bad as some might think. Being able to turbo 12" means we can be right in the enemy's face on turn 1, but we can't assault out of it unless they're kind enough to break the rhino for us. Add the disadvantage of only being able to disembark after its moved 6", no further, and its not as good for shock troops. However, for taking tactical squads around as a taxi, its more than fine, and we can take advantage of our 12" move in the shooting phase to open and then close lines of sight to our ranged weaponry, which is probably the best use for them.

Death Company
Right... with Rage, DC now get 5 WS5 S5 attacks each on the charge. That's painful. However, if they -receive- a charge, that's only 3 WS5 S4 attacks each, which is a lot less impressive. So, in order to get the best use out of them, we need to get the charge. Looking over the games, they only got the charge at full strength in 3 of the 10. In 6 games they either got shot to bits, reduced by half or more, or charged first, and in one game they got stuck in terrain and never made it at all. This makes me feel that whilst a drop pod will get them into the face of the enemy, they're quite likely to be removed or have their teeth pulled before they get the chance to do much. An enormous distraction, but is that really the best use for a 200-odd point unit? It can buy a little bit more time, but I'm not sure its worth it. My vote for how to run DC would be Assault Transports>Jump Packs>Drop Pod>Rhino/Razor>Foot, with assault transports winning because JPs are so expensive, and a raider/storm raven is good on its own. I'm prepared to be wrong on that one though.

Bike Squad
Perma-toughness 5 and FnP against anything S9 or under is great now. Hammer of Wrath, Relentless and Jink are all good selling points as well, and yet they seemed to underperform in all my games. The problem: numbers. 3 just isn't enough to get the job done. By all means run them because they're a great irritation unit, a decent scout, a reliable way to get linebreaker, and they're scoring 1/6th of the time, but I wouldn't run less than 5. I was never disappointed by them, but I always wished I had more.

Baal Predator
I can't speak for the flamestorm variant (I know there's a thread going around, so we'll keep the discussion there), but the dakka version is cool. 6" move and fire all guns, or 12" move, fire 2, and snap-fire the third is excellent. It can chew through 4+ save units, and is great for popping transports. Outflank is riskier in some missions than others (specifically, Vanguard Strike, where the enemy forces are more likely to be on one side than the other), but in Hammer and Anvil its amazing, as you'll be able to reach something worth shooting at no matter which side it comes on. A solid choice. It got removed in 2 games before doing anything (I like to think I was unlucky in the Necron game, and in the Tau one I was just careless), but in the other 8 it more than made its presence felt, and the speed with which it made its way up my opponents' "to kill" list makes it a solid choice.

Devastator Squad
Last, but not least, the humble 4 Missile Launcher devastator squad. Game against infantry and light-medium tanks. A solid choice, the only time its ever going to let you down is against an all-2+ save army (deathwing and sanguinary guard), redeemed a little bit against Paladins since a failed save will one-shot them. I'd be tempted to add a plasma cannon or two to the mix to help deal with the 2+ save issue, but when in doubt and for an all-comers list, the quad-ML set up is better against an unknown field.

BA as a whole
There's a hotly debated nerf/buff to FnP dependent on how you look at it. Razorspam seems viable, but Space Wolves can probably do it better. The furious charge nerf hurts us, as not going ahead of MEQ if we charge takes away a lot of our sting. I'm reminded heavily of a quote in the Codex - "Caution is not the Blood Angels way, and it cannot be yours". We're not going to win battles through combat superiority any more, because we don't have it. What we do have, however, is the second fastest marine army in the game, coming in just behind biker armies (Ravenwing or Codex Marines, take your pick). Before we could rely on furious charge to do the damage for us, but now we need to use our jump infantry troops, combined with 24" range rhinos, to get us where we need to be, and when we need to be there. Descent Of Angels also helps, as we can take our enemy to just one turn of shooting before we get to attack, and that won't always be enough.

The Missions
Crusade, Purge the Alien, and The Emperor's Will we all have coming out of our ears from 5th, so I'll leave those be to focus on the new ones. (If you're new to the game, then I apologise, but they're a lot more straightforward than the other 3, and don't require as much finesse).

Big Guns Never Tire - target the enemy heavy support choices first. They're normally threatening as it is, but now that they give up extra VPs then they're definitely worth a shot, especially if someone leaves them holding an objective. If you run devastators, be prepared for your opponent to bump them to the top of his target priority list if they're anywhere near an objective. Storm Ravens got a boost from this too. Also, remember that the vehicle can't take an objective if its immobilised, so if they have a land raider or something sat on an objective and you immobilise it, there's no need to waste your time and army trying to finish it off.

The Scouring - Overly complicated, in my opinion. Simply prioritise the high-scoring objectives. If chance screws you by giving the opponent easy access to the higher scoring markers, we've got the speed to mitigate that factor. Again, target fast attack first, especially since they're generally lightly armoured (land speeders, piranhas, other codices' assault marines which are generally only taken in small numbers) compared to the rest of the army.

The Relic - Bleh. Unbalanced, thy name is the Relic. First turn has a HUGE advantage, since the relic can only be picked up in the movement phase. Even if the second player makes the first player drop it, the first player gets first opportunity to pick it back up. Add first blood to that, and its an uphill battle. Since most of our troops choices can get it on turn 1, and we're fast enough to get it away quickly and put up roadblocks, this mission favours us. If you have a fast build, and first turn, its practically an auto-win, especially if you get the first kill (pick a really easy target, even if its not threatening. Rhino, land speeder, those 5 scouts that were just there because they had 80 spare points, anything). It may be horribly unbalanced, but we've got the edge, so take it if you can.

Secondary Objectives - First Blood makes turn 1 more important (though I've seen games where first blood didn't happen until the bottom of turn 2). And since it can't be claimed by both players, this matters more than any other. Slay The Warlord - matchup dependent. If they've got something hard as nails (Draigo, Ghaz, Bystander, Calgar) then don't bother. Especially painful if we're using support HQs (librarians are annoyingly easy to kill, and with Slay the Warlord in the mix people will be gunning for him). Linebreaker is a cool idea, and I like it. We should get it more often than not. There'll be a lot fewer draws with these around, and I like that they're only 1 VP each (specifically designed as tiebreakers, I imagine).

Warlord Traits - Not a fan. They're unbalanced. Some are really really good (an aforementioned combat monster getting an extra VP for characters killed in a challenge? Insane), whilst some are literally useless depending on your army and your opponents (what good is -1 to reserves if they have no reserves, or princeps of deceit if you're deploying second anyway?). The chance that one army could get a really potent one, whilst the other player gets one that has no bearing on the game, just seems to unbalance things to me.

Mysterious Objectives - Same with these guys. One side has guys camping with shooty units on an objective in a ruin with +1 to their cover save, whilst the poor scouts holding the other one have to put up with it periodically going boom. They're not as bad as the warlord traits, but add a bit of unnecessary complexity to the game, as its just one more thing to remember.


And that's about it, I guess. I'd like to offer my thanks to all my opponents for being so accommodating with me taking pictures and scribbling stuff down between turns, and for providing me with a wide variety of armies to play against (never played the same faction more than twice, and deliberately kept it 50/50 between power armour and non-power armour). I also thank everyone that's put up with reading the thread for the last few weeks, and everyone that's offered advice, queries, and constructive comments on the reports and list. If there's anything I've missed out, or if anyone has some specific queries, I'm perfectly happy to answer them. I hope this has been a useful thread, and its been of benefit to my fellow Blood Angel players.

Thanks for reading, may you all go out and bring the forum glory - for Sanguinius and the Emperor!
The Angel Sanguine - UK Throne of Skulls, October 2012

#66
Morticon

Morticon

    ++ FILIUS VINDICOR ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 14,232 posts
added your thoughts to the first post for ease of reading!
Awesome stuff to think about.
Thanks loads.
Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#67
Chaplain Admetus

Chaplain Admetus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 999 posts
That's actually a really good idea Mort. Can't believe I didn't think of doing that...cheers!
The Angel Sanguine - UK Throne of Skulls, October 2012

#68
Emperors Immortals

Emperors Immortals

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 2,487 posts
10 games went quick mate, thankyou for this thread. I cant get out of home right now, so this is invaluable. Stern seem to be a potentialy useful unit but i was quite impressed by the trusty dev squad. Do you think a LR would be useful with either RaS or stern? im thinking of running seth/tycho.

emperorsimmortals.pnggallery2900493031545.pnggallery_29004_9303_1940.png

forte @ Sep 26 2012, 03:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Personally, I'd rather be captured by Night Lords than even fight against Slaanesh Marines. 



      Shh, no science. Only grim dark. 


#69
Kabal_of_Baal

Kabal_of_Baal

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 35 posts
This has been really, really great, Admetus. Very informative. Moreover, I bet you're just a great guy to play against. I'm certainly going to be following future posts of yours!

Cheers

Kabal

#70
Taranis

Taranis

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 1,046 posts

added your thoughts to the first post for ease of reading!
Awesome stuff to think about.
Thanks loads.

And perhaps add to tactica tread in stickies? Call it 6ed introduction/changes?

@Chaplain Admetus: Great initiative and very very helpful. I've learned a lot through your efforts. Thank you very much.

Did you ever feel "naked" with the new ap3 power sword? I ask because I have charged 4 grey knight terminators and watched them roll their 2+ save against 14 assault marines, 2 sergeants with power sword, 1 priest with power sword and an Epistolary with force sword. He lost 1 terminator..... Had it been ap2 the hq would have been force weaponed twice. I'm gonna try an Epistolary with axe.
Signature not compliant with B&C forum rules
[img=http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/Pendragi/40k%20art/ETL_2013_03_Custos_Fidei_05.jpg][img=http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/Pendragi/40k%20art/gallery_52275_4552_20046.png][img=http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/Pendragi/40k%20art/ETL_05_Forum_Champion_02_BA.jpg][img=http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/Pendragi/40k%20art/gallery_26_4045_1017.gif][img=http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/Pendragi/40k%20art/Img_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2011A.gif][img=http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/Pendragi/40k%20art/Img_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2012C-1.gif][img=http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/Pendragi/Img_CH00_08Awards_02_LPC_2013A.gif]
[i]Do or Do Not, there is No Try[/i]
[i][b]Drink deep of victory and remember the fallen[/b][/i]
[url=http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254529-taraniss-painting-documentation/page-2]http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/254529-taraniss-painting-documentation/page-2"][/url]

#71
Midnightmare

Midnightmare

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,993 posts
An excellent read, thanks for doing this Admetus :whistlingW: It certainly cements some opinions over how to run RAS and I am glad Tacs are pretty viable. As for the DC, I have never had much luck in a pod, and usually now go 'Raven and/or Jump Packs with Lemartes if I can.
bl-logo.jpggallery_45765_12339_50558.png
“We are returned”
Black Legion WIP
Flesh Eaters WIP
Tutorial:Glowing Eyes/Power Weapons
Index Astartes:Flesh Eaters

#72
John_f

John_f

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 310 posts
Thank for the update. Great job! If you feel up to it feel free to extend the challenge and keep posting batreps!

#73
Chaplain Admetus

Chaplain Admetus

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 999 posts
Thanks everyone, its good to know this has been useful :)

@Emperor's Immortals - 10 games wouldn't normally go this quick, but being an unemployed student has accelerated the process by adding to my free time greatly :P. I can see a LR being useful with the RAS more than the Sternguard, since the biggest failing with the foot assault squad was the "no charging out of a vehicle" rule, which the landy circumvents. One of the things on my "to try" list is Tycho in a unit of Sternguard, as he seems right at home there.

@Taranis - Yep, the AP3 sword had me worried, as there's so many things that will shrug him off in a challenge and thus you can't really accept. It also means that that unit loses a big weapon against 2+ saves. The axe has the problem of going simultaneously with fists etc for mutually assured destruction, given the lack of an invulnerable save, or even worse a regular power weapon. Non-terminator librarians don't seem able to survive challenges at all. That's actually one of the prevailing reasons I found to use Divination over Biomancy, as the Div buffs are unit-wide, where most of the biomancy buffs are specific to the character.

@John_f - I'll see about putting some more batreps up with a different list, modified based on my experiences with this one. It'll have to wait a bit since as of next week I'll be giving my Tau (boo, hiss! ;) ) a test run to see how they fare under 6th, but I'll certainly try and get more batreps up.
The Angel Sanguine - UK Throne of Skulls, October 2012

#74
Sinful eyes

Sinful eyes

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 138 posts
Thanks a bunch dude! Really informative.

#75
the jeske

the jeske

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 19,518 posts
Ax are only good on models that cant be easily singled out of units . they are good on SW GH or BA DC , on characters they sucks . unless . If you take a tycho in your unit[probably in a LR] then the sgt can do ok with an ax , because all the challanges will be done by the ultra cpt himself.

"Felix wondered how Calgar might feel about the primach's unilateral altering of the Codex Astartes. The captain could not help but feel that, in his drive for victory and efficiency, Guilliman had been careless with the feelings of his existing sons. Increasingly, Guilliman looked to the Primaris Space Marines as his first solution. He made no attempt to hide the fact that the days of the older space marines were numbered."