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The Apocalypse Crusade (50th match "special report"!)


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#451
tvih

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Gah! Trying to get a better grasp of where I'm sitting in relation to 8th ed army lists, I was doing accounting on BattleScribe with my various armies as to how much of them I have in points. Exact numbers will vary based on upgrades especially for Orks, but roughly:
- Adepta Sororitas 2000pt

- Orks 3200pt
- Chaos Marines 750pt
- Astra Militarum 1500pt
 

For my "Codex Space Marines" I only counted vehicles and named/special characters since those alone tallied up to at least 6500 points already. Gah!
 

In addition there are small numbers of Dark Angels, Skitarii, Space Wolves, Sisters of Silence, Deathwatch and Custodes.

This. Is. Madness! wacko.png Why do I always make every hobby far more expensive than it has to be, especially considering my generally very limited income down.gif


Edited by tvih, 20 February 2018 - 12:55 AM.


#452
JAG Templar

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That is a lot of stuff! Do you play Sisters of Battle much? They look pretty reasonable on paper.
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#453
tvih

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I've played a total of 6 matches with Sisters+Guard combo, no pure Sisters lists so far - need to get them all painted before doing that. Also those games were in 6th and 7th edition, so no 8th experience with them. They do seem to be as close to a "power armor horde" as you can get, at 9 points per bolter model. Alas, that 2k points would take basically every single model Sisters model I have, bolter-wise that would be 32 models. Not that much of a horde ;) Would be kinda hilarious to see a 2k sisters list with something like 150 models.


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#454
tvih

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So, I started to finally assemble some bikes. To my sadness I noticed that only Captain bikes can have storm shields these days - no shielded veterans, then. Oh well. Be that as it may, that still leaves the captain. Here's what I was contemplating:
 
biker-stormshield-sword.jpg

It's of course actually a combat shield but I figure what the heck. It's not like actual storm shield are modeled to be able to hold a weapon and the dude needs to have a hand on the steering too - the Emperor protects, but won't take the wheel for you. I've seen people just slap a shield on the front of the bike and that's what I originally considered as well, but I'd rather have it on the character itself.

As the Captain already has a 4++ anyway I was thinking this as a method of being able to take The Shield Eternal if I want an old-fashioned beatstick bike. Now if I just had a good torso to differentiate between the captain and other bikes.

 

I have 6 bikes and 2 assault bikes total, and I'm thinking about splitting them half and half to BT and CF - like I do with many things nowadays it seems. I'm just not sure if 3 models will have enough of an impact (especially if it's just 3 veterans). Though as usual I can of course just use both in the same list if I'm sticking to a single chapter tactic.



#455
Cognative

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So, I started to finally assemble some bikes. To my sadness I noticed that only Captain bikes can have storm shields these days - no shielded veterans, then. Oh well. Be that as it may...


Company Veterans on Bikes is still an Index Legal choice that can take all that delicious wargear. You just have to use any updated costs from the codex. The whole codex versus/plus index thing is a pain.

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#456
tvih

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Hmm, I kinda thought BattleScribe included the Index stuff, like it does the autocannon options for the dreads, for example. But it doesn't have the storm shields. I guess they must've missed some things. I never looked at the indexes much, but seems Army Builder, which still only has index contents, does have the shields.

 

And yeah, they really did drop the ball with this whole index/codex mess. Doesn't much help when you add things like Chapter Approved. And to think they specifically said you wouldn't need so many things with 8th edition. Pff! I really wish they'd stop money-grubbing for once and make the rules free in electronic format, with the files updated with any changes and additions that are made.



#457
Cognative

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In Battlescribe I can do the SS and all that jazz on the company vets on bikes but NOT the company vet sergeant on bike. Odd. I think that's a mixup.

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#458
Firepower

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The Storm Bolter is in the Sergeant equipment list, so yes, he can take one.  Battlescribe is a good ways off from being 100% accurate.

 

That said, the Veteran Sergeant can't take Power Lances, while the other models can, so there is some rather silly nonsense in the books as well :P


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#459
tvih

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In Battlescribe I can do the SS and all that jazz on the company vets on bikes but NOT the company vet sergeant on bike. Odd. I think that's a mixup.

 

Ah, on third (or fourth) look it appears you're right. For most models in BS it's a tickbox for the shield but for the biker vets it's in the "numbers list". Well, in that case shields make sense for the actual vets, but the sergeant indeed still seems out of luck in that regard.



#460
tvih

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I started out by pondering on my Deathwatch models but somehow ended up working on my finecast Sword Brethren instead - they WERE setup already, but alas, as honour guard which now is a no-go for so many models. Well, many magnets and weapon swaps and such later, some initial weapon configuration options (trying to avoid duplicate looks):

 

bt-footvanguard.jpg

So now they're obviously foot vanguard again. I'm just not sure when I'm actually going to USE foot vanguard over assault terminators or jump vanguard (never mind things like dreads, sternguard etc).  Some of them could be used as sergeants I suppose, some of them can even have a storm bolter/bolter/combi-weapon easy enough. For their vanguard role could hope for a few more storm shields, but due to the lack of fitting right-handed shields it's hard to do while looking sensible (as in shield in an extended arm looks a bit silly) without that whole duplication thing - not that that'd be the end of the world.

At any rate getting the rest painted would probably be a task for ETL unless some madness takes me over and I do it prior to that. The mostly-painted ones could use some touch-ups too by now.



#461
tvih

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After I basecoated the Dread for B&Z, I realized I probably should have glued decorations on it before basecoating. I've found that gluing decorations on painted models doesn't work particularly well, after all. Oh well.

 

Basecoatings aside mostly been busy finishing my CF assault termies (which can be seen over at the IF forum so that I don't have to bore you with them here). With that now done I really should take a second pass at my BT assault termies at some point as well, I'm just not happy with them. I'd need to remove the hood from the one guy and some further too-DA-like tabard markings from one or two of them. And then try highlighting them as well, but I'm just still unsure how to go about that. I like the subtler highlights on CF models, but while I don't have many highlighted BT infantry models, the vehicles are, and doing the infantry with a different method would just seem odd. So, same ol' problems I guess you could say, as I've struggled with this before in this very thread.

 

The tartaros termies are a further question mark. I've again been contemplating that I have quite a few shooty termies as it is especially considering that they are still lackluster on the tabletop. The tartaros do have that extra inch of movement, but I just don't know. Why did I ever buy so unnecessarily huge amount of models anyway? Jeez. Really should've stuck with just one chapter, too.

 

I should also reassemble my BT Land Speeders and Stormraven at some point, they're quite in pieces. In fact one LS door and a "stair" is even missing, and who knows how many Stormraven parts. I probably should redo their highlighting too.



#462
tvih

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Second game of 8th today, again with a pure BT list. Just made a haphazard list and ended up facing orks. I had little in the way of anti-horde so faced up against a huge horde of orks with my 28 infantry models, 3 tanks and 2 dreads it wasn't looking like a rosy matchup!
 
I got to pick deployment type, so I went with vanguard to maximize distance between our deployment zones. We chose a pure kill point mission to not have to spend time pondering about objectives or cards, since we knew it was gonna take a while regardless, being just the second match of 8th for the both of us. Of course, having those big units against my small infantry units also made kill points risky for me.
 
YefnQhI.jpg

Apologies for poor phone pics! As you (maybe) can see, I had a Spartan, Vindicator and lascannon Predator as my tanks. Autocannon venerable dread and an Ironclad rounded out the armored forces. Three 5-man crusader squads, one being melee and two shooty. One 5-man sternguard squad, 6-man terminator assault squad, Emperor's champion and for the first time in my list ever, the main man High Marshal Helbrecht. An appropriate man to lead a battle against the orks, I guess! The champ and melee units started inside the Spartan, while Helbrecht was at the base of the ruin for reroll purposes. Autocannon dread deployed at the top of the tower for maximum silliness, since it couldn't move from there.

My opponent had a mega-armoured warboss, a weirdboy, I think six meganobz, three deffkoptas, two warbuggies, at least 20 stormboyz and of course the main course, I believe about 150 boyz.

Thankfully I got to go first. Vindi, Predator and Spartan let loose on the meganobz. They were behind the boyz so they retained a 4+ save against the lascannon/demolisher spam, but even so enough got through that five of them were obliterated on the first turn. It made sense to go for them first due to their power klaws, and being multi-wound and thus good targets for my more powerful guns. Other units/weapons didn't kill much, just some boyz from the rightmost unit, most of the kills by the autocannon dread I believe but also the plasma weapons of the rightmost crusader squad snatched a few (they're next to the Vindi).

tfciY4j.jpg

Then it was time for the green tide to surge forwards. Warp trickery sent one squad of boyz to the right edge of the board near my Predator and crusaders, joined by the warbuggies from reserves, while the stormboyz and deffkoptas also came from reserves at the left flank. As the Vindi has closed some of the distance in order to get in range of the meganobz, it got charged. Some shots were fired here or there, but in the end I didn't lose even a single model! Predator did take one wound from the warbuggies I think.

My turn again. I backed my Vindicator off from the melee and sent the melee units from within the Spartan to intercept. Ironclad moved toward the deffkoptas, blasting one to bits with its meltagun. The Spartan shot the last meganob and remaining two deffkoptas. First Blood to me! Predator and autocannon dread also blew up the warbuggies right after. Other units whittled down some boys, the plasma crusaders and sternguard focusing on the rightmost unit and placing themselves for a charge. Even Helbrecht shot one ork, the lazy bum!

TMlU9i8.jpg

Then it was time to start charging. The terminators accompanied by the Emperor's Champion charged the boyz mob that had charged the Vindicator. The plasma crusaders and sternguard charged the rightmost unit. Ironclad and melee crusaders charged the full-strength boyz mob at the middle of the enemy line. Results were quite nice - the two mobs at the right were wiped out by casualties in the melee itself and then by morale fails. Four crusaders were lost, leaving only the sword brother in the plasma squad. But biggest letdown was Emperor's Champion who only killed one ork before dying horribly. Ironclad killed 3 or 4, suffering a wound in return.

After the fight phase:
lyFrlwp.jpg

The enemy retaliated on th terminators by assaulting it with a boyz mob. Stormboyz also arrived and managed to assault my other shooty crusader squad, losing two orks to their own reckless approach in the process. But they did wipe out said crusaders, while I also lost four terminators to an overwhelming tide of attacks. The last two managed to block klaw attacks to survive to the next round. The remaining melee squads were wiped out by the boyz they were fighting, and the ironclad also took a wound or two I think.

My turn to retaliate. The Spartan and AC dreadnought blasted the snot out of the stormboyz, killing quite a few. Helbrecht approached them as well. The enemy warboss had ended up at the outskirts of the boyz mob. Vindicator and Predator managed to line themselves up so that they could shoot at it. Only the Predator had success, inflicting 4 wounds. The sternguard and remaining crusader sword brother moved towards the boyz that were fighting the terminators.

(Apologies for particularly bad photo:)
zZQWKlD.jpg

Ironclad killed some more boyz, as did the terminators. Even sternguard killed a few, though their assault was rather paltry. The sergeant died as did the the terminators. Vindicator charged too but accomplished nothing. Spartan charged the stormboyz, crushing three unfortunates into a pulp with its tracks. One slugga got a lucky wound off the Spartan with overwatch though, how silly. Helbrecht charged as well, slaying all but one of those that remained.

cN9OIYJ.jpg

Morale phase got rid of the last boy as well, but I think it did do one wound to Helbrecht.

Orks' turn. Boyz from the middle that weren't stuck fighting the ironclad surged up to charge Helbrecht.

vRMi4cO.jpg

 

42uKUuO.jpg

Helbrecht weathered a good pile of attacks without wounds, and dispatched of four boyz in turn. The sternguard were fighting the boyz, getting whittled down to two models at this point. Their warboss charged and destroyed the ironclad, the sarchophagus-bound ancient having performed its duty in halting the tide admirably up to that point.

42uKUuO.jpg

In my turn a fusillade of fire from the dreadnought pasted the weirdboy into a pulp, and then my tanks first made short work of the boyz protecting the warboss... and finally the warboss himself.

unB6oSZ.jpg

And at this point, my opponent conceded the match. We had been playing for over 3,5 hours, and he reckoned he couldn't possibly win at that point. I had exterminated 9 of this 11 units, each worth a killpoint while also having first blood & slay the warlord, while I had lost 5 units.  He probably would have killed Helbrecht and definitely the Sternguard in this turn, but that would still have left me at a 11-8 points advantage and my remaining four units nearly unkillable for his remaining boyz, having only lost one wound each except for the high-up dreadnought. Had the rest of the battle unfolded, vehicles would've whittled down the boyz in a war of attrition. Basically he had maybe 37 boyz (of which at least Helbrecht would've surely killed a few), while I had 47 wounds between the four vehicles. Oh, and I just realized after the fact that I accidentally played the terminators as having 1 wound each, so they certainly died unnecessarily fast...

I must say I was surprised at the result since I had not much that you'd call anti-horde in the list. The heavy vehicles that I thought beforehand were not gonna be able to pull their weight actually did very well for the most part. My small infantry elements were able to hold the tide just long enough for the vehicles to be able to do their job in relative peace.

Still, a fun match and also my 50th game of 40k in total (barring bookkeeping errors I guess tongue.png) as well as first time with Helbrecht, so I guess it makes for a good commemorative victory!


Edited by tvih, 14 April 2018 - 08:00 PM.

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#463
tvih

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Oh, other than the match I finally bought Dark Imperium just before the game, so I finally actually have the darn rulebook. Still not sure which Primaris to keep, thinking maybe Captain (since it looks kinda cool and I don't have a painted Captain for CF yet), Hellblasters and Inceptors for the CF. Not really feeling the love for the lieutenants or Ancient, nor Intercessors. Though the latter would make sense for CF from a fluff point of view with their depleted basic troops.



#464
Brother Talarian

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Nice report! Congratulations on the win.

I also really like your swordbrothers, and how you convert them, wonderful idea that I might try myself. That or attempt to sculpt some big bad ass cloaks on some marines.

Can’t believe I haven’t seen your plog/army before! Keep it up.

gallery_38474_6916_27314.jpg


#465
tvih

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Thanks. This thread is kind of a mess though, so much ranting and raving about things, often the same things many times over as I take breaks and then come back to the same "problems"... tongue.png

I suck at getting anything useful sculpted myself, even if I get the shape right usually the materials refuse to be smooth enough. As such I use Anvil Industry cloaks for my marines like I've mentioned a few times before, they are pretty much the only non-GW bitz I use. I use them on basically all power armored elite and HQ Templars that don't already have a cloak and can fit one (a few metal models are problematic as far as fitting). That way all "sword brethren" get cloaks just like the official resin ones. As a side note actually in this match all my three Crusader squads had a resin sword brother leading them. The melee squad even had the dual lightning claw brother. I'm not sure if he's been on the table since 2013, if even then!


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#466
tvih

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Hmm... I've considered taking a drybrush approach to my Templars before, ever since I did that with my Steel Legion vehicles, but at the time I was just thinking of doing it with gray. However as I worked on my Ork Dakkajet (uhhh.... gotta have something for the Templars to shoot at, right..?! sweat.gif ) where I drybrushed it with leadbelcher on black. It makes for a battleworn-look, paint having been chipped away and all that. It'd also look different from the edge-highlighted Crimson Fists. But what worries me about the infantry is the pristine tabards being a mismatch for that style. Not just the pure white color but also no tears, holes, etc. Feels like I can't win - I don't like the usual gray highlighting much but on black anything subtler doesn't really work either. By comparison I quite like my CF highlighting.



#467
Crusader_Aleister

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Hmm... I've considered taking a drybrush approach to my Templars before, ever since I did that with my Steel Legion vehicles, but at the time I was just thinking of doing it with gray. However as I worked on my Ork Dakkajet (uhhh.... gotta have something for the Templars to shoot at, right..?! sweat.gif ) where I drybrushed it with leadbelcher on black. It makes for a battleworn-look, paint having been chipped away and all that. It'd also look different from the edge-highlighted Crimson Fists. But what worries me about the infantry is the pristine tabards being a mismatch for that style. Not just the pure white color but also no tears, holes, etc. Feels like I can't win - I don't like the usual gray highlighting much but on black anything subtler doesn't really work either. By comparison I quite like my CF highlighting.

For my white tabards, I wash them in Seraphim Sepia before drybrushing white.



#468
tvih

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At a bit of a crossroads with my Templars. I'm thinking I won't be making any new units for them beyond those already in progress or that are distinctly Templar models (like the second batch of unpainted Finecast Sword Brethren). May work on the old models to make 'em look better.

Even if it is just inside my head, I must say I've been somewhat disenchanted with my Crusade ever since the drastic fluff changes. I still have too many models I like and have put a lot of work into - even if it doesn't show - to sell them. Not that anyone would even buy regular marines for a reasonable price these days. And of course there's always memories and "emotional attachment" involved. Vehicles could always be repainted and some might be, but most of the ones I have now are fairly good in terms of paint job - like the Ironclad, Spartan etc - or have the same type already done or in progress for my other marines... which are of course the Crimson Fists.

The CF are really much nicer to paint infantry for. I never did really find the infantry paint style I'd like for my BT. I really like my CF scheme though in all its simplicity, the very dark blue and not too over highlight color. Main problem is the vehicles for them, since for the basecoating it involves the dreaded airbrush that I just spent plenty of money upgrading, with results remaining to be seen.

Overall as I've probably said before it's silly having two such similar armies in BT and CF, but I guess at this point it's an "oh well" situation since I already have them and as said selling would have to be for peanuts at least for infantry, even the unpainted ones. But I have probably at least close to 10k points in marines which seems wasteful.

All that jabbering aside, I fixed some of the images in the previous two pages, and in doing so noticed that here's at least one finished BT unit from the same time period that I don't think I have shown yet:
med_gallery_68041_14949_200342.jpg
Well, obviously the tracks are still missing in the picture. While here it is a Razorback, I'm fairly sure this was originally the hull of my first Predator, I just ended up going with the wrong hull for the Predator guns at the time of painting (the hull of Styx, my first Razorback, actually - as such Styx ended up being a Predator instead of Razorback for the longest time!). The front plate is from the Styx since it got the FW upgrades. I did use this as a Predator in my previous game at any rate (I tend not to glue the hatches etc to be able to do just such swaps). Better late than never to get the guns on the right hull, eh? Even though by now it's hopeless, I must keep these things sorted as best I can so I know what's what or the machine spirits will be angry (that's my story, and I'm sticking to it).

This reminds me that I never did post pics of the "upgraded" Styx. Maybe some day tongue.png


Edited by tvih, 13 October 2018 - 10:54 AM.


#469
Brother Cristopher

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The thing about fluff and rules is that they may be annoying, but quite easy to ignore. Being content with your collection and being able to find fun in painting your models is something else, something I find essential. Yes, our infantry may be unrewarding to paint, but the final result is usually well worth the effort, especially if painted models look like yours. As for selling collections go, I considered selling mine a couple of times, but never found this to be reasonable. My disenchantment with the setting is game is fully credited to GW's 'policy'. What the company does things with the game is beyond our control, but the models we've bought, painted and played with is something else, ultimately unaffected by the changes to the meta or official background.

 

All in all, while I hope to see some more of your work on the Black Templars in the future, I very much hope that whatever you decide is right for you.



#470
tvih

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A big part of this hobby resides within one's imagination in the end, and there the official fluff lurks, biding its time and being a bummer if it goes the "wrong way." Not that easy to ignore in practice (at least for me), even if it should be in theory.

 

My BT infantry sadly actually doesn't look like much. Only a few models have any sort of highlighting. And that's where a big portion of my annoyance with them comes. The extreme highlighting I've come to use with my BT vehicles is a bit overt. I suppose it looks OK at least on the vehicles, but it's easily overpowering on a small infantry model. I've contemplated trying "dulling" the highlights with Nuln Oil after the fact, but haven't tested that out yet. On the other hand with duller highlights - such as those I attempted earlier in this thread - can feel like a waste as you don't even see them at an arm's length.

Furthermore, I'd need to basically retouch almost all the tabards in the crusade. After the initial dozen or so models I got lazy and just did the tabards in even white. But looking at those first dozen as well as some more recent non-Templar models the different shades of gray/white really do make the models look more lively, just that it takes twice as long to do the tabards. But I guess it needs to be done sooner or later. That's a good 20-30 models to go through.

Then there's the BT terminators... I still don't "feel" most of them. In the sense of being Templars, that is. The metal Commander figure and maybe a few others are OK, but the others such as most of the Deathwing conversions... not so much. By comparison I love my CF termies, especially all the Space Hulk models. But of course it doesn't help that gaming-wise Terminators still aren't particularly good on the table. Well, marines in general aren't, but termies even less so I guess.

 

Oh. And finally there's the matter of my Spartan. After all the cost and effort, it feels so lackluster compared to other things in 8th Edition. Baneblades, Knight Castellans and such make a joke of it. And to think I was originally worried if it'll be considered too powerful!

 

Anyways. Here's Styx in its Rhino configuration. It appears that after all these years I still haven't properly painted the darn turret!

 

med_gallery_68041_14949_84166.jpg

 


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#471
Brother Cristopher

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Have you tried doing the extreme highlight by dry brushing the model? I mean, it seems like an obvious technique, but I have just started doing this. Earlier, for 98% of my infantry, I applied paint (roughly) along the edges of armour plates/detail which amounted to a tedious, time-consuming and often unrewarding process. Now, with broad strokes of a brush, I'm able to end up with similar aesthetics to those obtained before. After applying highlights by dry brush, I clean up any excess grey with black paint. The painting process is much less frustrating and saves me some time (roughly 15 minutes per model).



#472
tvih

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I shortly discussed that earlier in this thread. I've done a few models like that (a Vanguard unit), but the end result still wasn't like I'd prefer. It was quicker, though.



#473
tvih

tvih

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  • 3,805 posts
  • Location:Finland
  • Faction: BT/CF/Orks/AS/AM/etc

My aversion to glue means some units haven't come through the years quite as well as others... case in point, this is my Stormraven at the moment:

 

med_gallery_68041_14949_56000.jpg

 

Ouch! Basically the only thing that is glued in it is the wings to the fuselage. In other words, the one thing that really SHOULDN'T be glued since it makes it so big to transport. Well, I plan on restoring the plane today/tomorrow, with actual glue this time around. I haven't used it after 6th at least, and even then I believe only in a single tournament.

Another unit I haven't used much and not since 6th - my Stormtalons. I'm undecided whether or not to keep the second one (it's unpainted). They're rather points-intensive these days, just like the Raven. The Stormtalon needs a bit of glue love too, although it's mostly intact. Missing a landing "gear", though. Land Speeders are in pieces two, especially the two painted ones that are awaiting reassembly too. The two unpainted ones share a similar uncertain fate as the second Talon. They cost a lot of points now too, especially in Typhoon configuration, while being quite easy to kill. I'm thinking of maybe trying an assault cannon + heavy bolter dakka config at some point?






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