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DanteWing Tactica


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53 replies to this topic

#26
DominicJ

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The banner is a 6 inch bubble isn't it?

34 wounds is easily 700pts of marines.
Even against guard or orks, their counter doesn't have To end you, and how many even take over seventy models?

I used to take 120 guard and thirty dead was no laughing matter.

The banner is a 6 inch bubble isn't it?

34 wounds is easily 700pts of marines.
Even against guard or orks, their counter doesn't have To end you, and how many even take over seventy models?

I used to take 120 guard and thirty dead was no laughing matter.

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#27
DominicJ

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The banner is a 6 inch bubble isn't it?

34 wounds is easily 700pts of marines.
Even against guard or orks, their counter doesn't have To end you, and how many even take over seventy models?

I used to take 120 guard and thirty dead was no laughing matter.

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#28
Drunken Angel

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The banner is a 6 inch bubble isn't it?


Nope only for the unit and the banner bearer can be sniped out of the squad, the banner is essential to bring the number of hits up but dont rely on it

34 wounds is easily 700pts of marines.
Even against guard or orks, their counter doesn't have To end you, and how many even take over seventy models?

I used to take 120 guard and thirty dead was no laughing matter.


7 squads x 10 model chaos PA troops at 13 points a model = 910 points.

I dont like full strength overwatch or plasma either which usually sits in most squads these days. I am not saying SG are bad rather the opposite SG are awesome I run 15. I am saying SG will falter if not supported by the ravens and hordes are an issue, terrain, placement and dice can string along combat for several turns thats bad. The SG need to assault and lock in combat, winning and consolidating in the opponents turn thats got to be carefully done. Winning combat on your turn will be a disaster especially early in the game when shooting units are still in the game.

Where will you find 3 full squads of PA troops hanging around waiting for the SG, only in armies with troops to burn ?
As an example a chaos player can take 13 point base PA troops plus any amount of acolytes and demons, space wolves are not far behind at 15 points they have 7 point fenris wolves to screen.

Edited by Drunken Angel, 18 October 2012 - 09:20 AM.


#29
ianj253

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Maybe slap some Hurricane bolters onto the ravens. 6 twin linked bolters is nice against hordes and they always earn there points back for me. I don't know if you'd consider it but if you could squeeze in 2 Baal preds with HB sponsors you'd get 10 shots for each baal and the 13 av is a nice mobile wall to hide some SG behind.

#30
DominicJ

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Doh, the morale stuff is twelve, only the unit is plus one attack.

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#31
KhorneHunter57x

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For dealing with the issue of hordes, what would you think about replacing a squad of shiny Marines with a squad of jumpy Death Company? They aren't scoring, don't wear 2+ armor, and would weaken the theme of the army a bit, but I think they would give the force a bit more flexibility. A six-psycho unit with Jump Packs and a Power Fist is 235 points, similar in cost to a typical Sanguinary Guard unit, yet has nearly twice as many attacks on the charge. Also, being escorted by a Priest does them no good, potentially saving upwards of 75 points.

Do you think that it would help tackle hordes, or would it weaken a Dantewing force?

Edited by KhorneHunter57x, 18 October 2012 - 07:27 AM.

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#32
Drunken Angel

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I have just finished an epic 2000 point battle with a chaos list from the new codex featuring defilers, bloodletters, juggernaughts, bloodthirsters, cultists and plague marines. I won but I lost my 6 DC on the second turn charging a bloodleters horde I should have shot up first (the DC had a 4++ invun from divination and failed 9 out of 10 rolls on armour saves, then went on to fail all 9 FNP). I might have been better off with SG who knows. AP2 CC weapons at initiative are not common in hordes AP3 a little more common AV2 jump infantry with FNP preist is a big advantage over AV3 with inbuilt FNP but you give up a kill point for it in the priest.

The only thing keeping my household from being overun by the scornful laughter of the demon chaos hordes my son runs is the Stormravens, closely followed by Death Company and Baals luckily I have always used Ravens even before they were cool.

Edited by Drunken Angel, 18 October 2012 - 07:40 PM.


#33
DominicJ

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Dante, honour guard, four meltas.

Four sg squads with fists
priest with jumpy

two ravens.

Need dante, two more sg squads and two more meltas.
Might take an axe squad and the rest swords, not decided yet.

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#34
birdbath

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Might take an axe squad and the rest swords, not decided yet.


I think this will only end in DOOM!

The sword is more of a jack of all trades weapon and that is why in an all commers list I can see them being a much more useful weapon than the axe "swing for swing"
However the axe is not to be counted out, it's a middle ground between swords and the power fist without the extra cost (which I love).

Don't go overboard with any of the weapons and you should be fine.

2 axes and 3 swords would work nicely.

Edited by birdbath, 19 October 2012 - 09:35 AM.


#35
JamesI

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Might take an axe squad and the rest swords, not decided yet.


I think this will only end in DOOM!

The sword is more of a jack of all trades weapon and that is why in an all commers list I can see them being a much more useful weapon than the axe "swing for swing"
However the axe is not to be counted out, it's a middle ground between swords and the power fist without the extra cost (which I love).

Don't go overboard with any of the weapons and you should be fine.

2 axes and 3 swords would work nicely.

This fits my experience. 2 axes/3 swords or 1 axe/1fist/3 swords.

gallery_26_4045_8286.gif

 


#36
DominicJ

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My plan was 3 squads of 1x fist and 4x sword, and a fourth squad 1x fist and 4x axe.

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#37
birdbath

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My plan was 3 squads of 1x fist and 4x sword, and a fourth squad 1x fist and 4x axe.


Ye.... still not feeling that fourth squad sorry.

#38
DietOfLiquor

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What about just two sanguinary guards and a pimped out honor guard? Like... 4 infernus pistols and two melta guns. And the rest have supporting units? Like maybe a VV or Sternguard with DC and storm raven. Then two little 5 man marine squads to hold objectives?

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#39
DominicJ

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BB
Ok, imagine you need to wipe out an all sword SG squad......
Its just there as a last ditch so I have something to throw at 2+ saves.

I've not tried it yet, and it will be a be a few weeks before I can put it together, I'll batrep it 13/11 or 20/11

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#40
birdbath

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BB
Ok, imagine you need to wipe out an all sword SG squad......
Its just there as a last ditch so I have something to throw at 2+ saves.

I've not tried it yet, and it will be a be a few weeks before I can put it together, I'll batrep it 13/11 or 20/11


Thanks, looking forward to the batrep!

I might be playing a game against eldar this weekend. I will keep you all posted.

Cheers,
BB

#41
IK Viper

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Angelicus Bolters vs anything not power armoured :-) only scarry part is you may shoot yourself out of assault range...

I don't run an all Sang. Guard list, but I go with 20 RAS and 10 Sang. Guard, had a nice win last night vs Cron Air with it, the ability to rush in under them and make them over fly should not be underestimated. things with good inv. saves need to be drowned in attacks which is where you need the RAS, everything else the Guard can smash hard :-)

last night was the second time my opponent figured out that Wraiths are good but not unstoppable, 2 squads of 6 failed to kill a single model before being eliminated and yes they made it to combat, to many attacks to deal with now that whip coils are only effective at the start of the phase :-)

my point though is that had I just taken Sang. Guard I wouldn't have had the attacks to deal with that many wraiths, taking both RAS and Guard give you flexability that I think Dante Wing otherwise is sorely missing, plus for the same points as a Guard squad you can get 10 bodies that can be combat squaded if the situation calls for it, and if you are packing melta in those squads, in a pinch I will often combat sqaud them and DS one in a line breaker/objective threat position hopefully out of LOS and take the other with 2 melta and agressively DS them in to snipe out a vehicle that really needs to get shut down, its not super reliable but it usually suppresses what ever I shoot at for atleast a turn if not destroy it.

To me Dante Wing's primary weakness is its low model count and difficulty with hordes, which RAS are a nice answer to in some cases.

#42
birdbath

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To me Dante Wing's primary weakness is its low model count and difficulty with hordes, which RAS are a nice answer to in some cases.


Well said IK Viper... hordes are problematic and that is why cyclone missiles and hurricane bolters are quite handy on the storm ravens. But in the end bodies on the field is better than a few more guns on an already expensive flyer.

Cheers,
BB

#43
Nicodemus Doloroso

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I'm sure this has been covered, but the search tool was not giving me what I wanted ...

Death masks: the only mention of them I saw in the tactica was "Always remember not to buy death masks for the unit that includes Dante because you only need 1 death mask to cause the effect." So my question is, what is the consensus on the utlity/competitiveness of adding death masks to a squad without Dante, for 25 points? And am I correct that in terms of modelling, the death masks are the heads with human-like faces, and non-death mask S.G. are the heads with more normal marine-looking heads? If so, it is probably worth the 25 points purely due to rule of cool (or even if not, it would be a good way to tell death mask units apart from non-death mask units and might still be rule of cool-worthy).

Having not tried it out, on paper the death masks seem iffy to me. For the price of a power fist, you can reduce enemies to WS1, but it seems to me that most enemies who have lower leadership already are fairly weak on the HTH stats anyway. But 25 points isn't too expensive (as I adjust from IG to marine prices :lol:). Looking forward to your thoughts.
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#44
JamesI

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I do not consider the death masks worth it under any circumstances.

gallery_26_4045_8286.gif

 


#45
The Holy Heretic

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So here is my take on a SG list:

http://www.bolterand...howtopic=264520

The thought is to tag team honour guards of plasma death with sanguinary guards and have highly mobile force - taking advantage of the Blood Chalice in the honour guards, instead of spending points on priests.

#46
DominicJ

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Death Masks are great against combat monsters with low leadership.
Sadly, there are no such in 40k.

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#47
birdbath

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I am not a fan of death masks. I can get 2 power fists or inferno pistols with 5 pts spare. If you look at it like that it seem like a simple choice to me.

I got a bit of time tonight to fill out the tactica with the new power weapon rules and I will add a bit of info on death masks and the Sanguinor.

Cheers,
Bb

Edited by birdbath, 30 October 2012 - 09:50 AM.


#48
birdbath

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Hey again, got an update for this thread soon about the Sanguinor. But I thought before I posted I thought I would ask you guys what you thought of him and do you think arming with a power axe is viable or more to the point within the rules?

Cheers,
BB

#49
CitadelArmyGuy

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Death Masks are great against combat monsters with low leadership.
Sadly, there are no such in 40k.

I am not advocating Death Masks, I agree completely with JamesI.

However, it is interesting to note that Dante has one standard, and also the statistics on Leadership Checks:

Ld10 fails 1/12. Exactly Equivalent to a re-rollable 2+. It can fail, but not likely.

Ld9 fails 1/6. Exactly the same as a 2+ dice roll. Unlikely but possible, and always seemingly at the worst moments...

Ld8 fails 5/18. This is better than a 3+, but worse than a 2+. Slightly closer to the 3+ side of things though. (27.78% failure). Better than 1/4 to fail.

It's not really worth discussing anything below that, since there are practically no Units with Ld7 or below in the game that are of any consequence. But I can think of more than a few nasty melee units or just units in general who are only Ld8. That gives you better than 1/4 chance that you'll have a pretty big bonus against them obviously.

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#50
Marshal Wilhelm

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Death Masks are great against combat monsters with low leadership.
Sadly, there are no such in 40k.

I am not advocating Death Masks, I agree completely with JamesI.

However, it is interesting to note that Dante has one standard, and also the statistics on Leadership Checks:

Ld10 fails 1/12. Exactly Equivalent to a re-rollable 2+. It can fail, but not likely.


A re-rollable 2+ fails 1/6 x 1/6 = 1/36. That is 1/3rd of what Ld 10 fails at ~ 3/36.

Or am I missing something?