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DC drop pod tactics


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29 replies to this topic

#1
ianj253

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I'm newish to 40k so really don't know too much about tactics. I wanted some feedback on how I have been using a drop pod. Typically I take a unit of DC with bolters and a Reclusiarch and stick them in a drop pod with a DW launcher. I land close to an enemy unit I think I can destroy and proceed to shoot the bolters and DW at them. I do this in attempt to secure first blood giving me an additional VP. After that squad is wiped up I turn my attention too my opponents warlord and try to take him down to secure that VP too. So far I haven been successful with this plan, but after that my squad usually is wiped out. So is this a legitimate use of the drop pod? Any feedback would help and feel free to share how you use your drop pods. Thanks for taking a look!

#2
knife&fork

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I'm newish to 40k so really don't know too much about tactics. I wanted some feedback on how I have been using a drop pod. Typically I take a unit of DC with bolters and a Reclusiarch and stick them in a drop pod with a DW launcher. I land close to an enemy unit I think I can destroy and proceed to shoot the bolters and DW at them. I do this in attempt to secure first blood giving me an additional VP. After that squad is wiped up I turn my attention too my opponents warlord and try to take him down to secure that VP too. So far I haven been successful with this plan, but after that my squad usually is wiped out. So is this a legitimate use of the drop pod? Any feedback would help and feel free to share how you use your drop pods. Thanks for taking a look!


You are aware that the drop pod isn't a fast vehicle and therefore cannot fire the deathwind on the turn it arrives?

I wouldn't bother with a reclusiarch in a distraction squad like drop pod DC. They are enough of a threat without him and he is very expensive.

What does the rest of your list look like?
24 years of Blood Angels

#3
DominicJ

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Sounds like its working well enough.

DC arent supposed to survive the battle anyway :lol:

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death


#4
Ushtarador

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I wouldn't put a reclusiarch in there either, it's a suicide squad and actually does well enough without the rerolls, most often it's just overkill.

#5
appiah5

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For the price of a Reclusiarch you can add 5 Bolter DC and one Thunder Hammer, which will be a much better investment in the long run for that unit.

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#6
ianj253

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http://www.bolterand...howtopic=260785 Thats the list I'd planned on using.

#7
SamaNagol

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Good lord you have NO scoring troops!

#8
knife&fork

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Good lord you have NO scoring troops!


I see 2 scoring units? One assault squad and one tac.
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#9
ianj253

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2 is correct and I will most likely squeeze scouts in there so that will be 3. I've been realizing the Rec may have been over kill and counter productive to my strategy as He usually gets killed with the DC, thus awarding my opponent a VP in the process.

#10
CitadelArmyGuy

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I've played drop-pod DC several times, and from my experience Pod-DC are all about prediction. I'm not talking about Infernous Pistol Pod-DC; they are handled completely differently. IP Pod-DC attempt to blow up a Tank upon arrival, followed by getting primaried off the table (but the rest of your units generally survive far better since the opponent's focus is on the DC).

However, non-IP Pod-DC function in a different capacity. Pod-DC as I mentioned are about prediction, and foiling your opponent's battle plan.

Examine his disposition. Determine where his highest value units are, and I'm not talking about points-value, I'm talking about the Units that will be positioned to score Victory Points. Not necessarily are positioned, but will be--- again, you must predict the opponent's moves.

So after examining his high-value units, you have to determine where the opponent wants to move them. Not only just where he wants to move next turn, but where he'd like to move them in the next few turns.

Once you've determined where your opponent wants to go, you have to decide where you can place the DC so that they will prevent or divert this movement. Two ways to do that are through direct diversion and indirect diversion. Direct diversion works by placing the DC square along the path to that spot, blocking movement and creating obstruction. Indirect diversion places the DC so that movement is not blocked, but the opponent is 'incentivized' to redirect their movement (usually to remove the DC as a threat to a third Unit, but sometimes because the opponent sees them and changes his plan because he takes the bait to divert to go kill them). Both diversions require a certain finesse to ensure the diversion lasts more than a single turn.

I'll say again because its important-- a diversion that only lasts one turn is usually a waste of effort (sometimes not, if the cost-benefit is in your favor). Dropping the DC to a place where you opponent can 'solve' them in one turn is rarely a good choice because generally you've only fed them the DC and probably didn't slow your opponent down very much. That's why prediction is so important-- you must get inside your opponent's head to determine "how they would like the win the game" and then placing the DC excactly where your opponent doesn't want them.

Drop-Pods deliver a flexibility which is hard to quantify. Jump Packs are a much more blunt and easy to use version of DC (and arugably the most openly powerful). I personally deride DC-Rhinos because there are few things less flexible than an melee-unit inside a Rhino now. But Pod-DC can achieve effective diversions far easier than the majority of other tools available to Blood Angels due to the fact they choose their deployment placement on Turn 1 (instead of 'Turn Zero', game setup).

TL;DR ---- drop the DC where they won't get shot or assaulted off the table in one turn. :D

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Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#11
ianj253

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Thanks citadel it's nice to get an in depth tactical break down on units. Would you mind checking out the army list I linked in the thread? Your feed back would be a help!

#12
Entry1

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what about a libby w/shield and his hood for the extra psychic defence. He could also have them re roll attacks on the charge with his secondary psychic power....just a thought

#13
Ushtarador

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TL;DR ---- drop the DC where they won't get shot or assaulted off the table in one turn. ;)


That basically sums it up perfectly. Since the DC are footslogging, they won't go anywhere after they've landed, so positioning is the most important part. I usually drop them on the flank or in the back of the enemy, where there are multiple long-range fire support or scoring units, which don't stand a chance against DC. Then the opponent will have to choose between losing his flank or diverting an expensive unit to deal with the DC, thus breaking up his deployment and spreading him out.
With rapid-firing bolters and subsequent charge, WS5 and S5 on the attacks, it needs a lot now to reliably deal with DC, even if there are only 2-3 guys left, they can shred through important supporting units and ruin your day :)

@entry I usually feel that they pose enough of a threat without the libby. Rather use it to buff the rest of your army, the DC are dangerous enough by themselves. Since you can now deploy into terrain as well, you usually don't need shield anyway.

Edited by Ushtarador, 13 September 2012 - 09:34 AM.


#14
SamaNagol

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I like my all drop pod BA list because it allows me to play in such a way that if I can read the battlefield and the flow of the game, I will win.

I am going to start using a small Vanguard unit as well to really ruin those Devastators' day!

#15
DominicJ

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I'm with ushtrador.

Don't drop them in front of the enemy hammer, they will be crushed.
Drop them off to one side when threaten a support unit.
Ten dc with boltguns and three fist will happily mash a devestator squad, a fire support platoon or a battery of bassilisks.
They can run away, but whilst running, they aren't shooting.
Even better if the other side start moving assault units to counter, now you run!
By turn three, one third per turn and one half in total of the enemy army has been off mission dealing with one fifth of your force.

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#16
knife&fork

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Don't drop them in front of the enemy hammer, they will be crushed.


Never say never. (ok, technically you didn't but whatever ^_^ )

The DC are fearless so you know they aren't going anywhere if they get stuck in. Sometimes holding up the enemy hammer for a turn or two might be just what you need.


The important thing is that you shouldn't take an expensive unit like this for tarpitting duty when building your list, just remember that you have the option if the situation calls for it during a game.
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#17
Meatcaber

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I've played drop-pod DC several times, and from my experience Pod-DC are all about prediction. I'm not talking about Infernous Pistol Pod-DC; they are handled completely differently. IP Pod-DC attempt to blow up a Tank upon arrival, followed by getting primaried off the table (but the rest of your units generally survive far better since the opponent's focus is on the DC).



How is it best to use IP armed DC from a Pod? Go for a heavy tank and destroy, or go open a can and assault it's contents? I know this will depend on what else you have in your army, but are they better/more viable than non IP armed DC?

I'm just starting out with BA and so far I have seen mixed veiws - some people seem to like them and some people don't.

#18
DominicJ

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I think its too hit and miss, even with a pod and 5 IPs, your chances of cracking open a raider are, variable.
Either it will work, or it wont.
ten with three three fists are a persistent threat, and frequently, the threat is worth more than the reality

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#19
SamaNagol

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Paying for IPs on DC is a waste of points. A full Assault Squad with 2 Meltas and a Sergeant with Power Weapon and IP is far better for less points.

#20
knife&fork

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Apples and oranges.

I don't belive in showering the DC with upgrades but an IP or two is about making them more useful in general. Melta is the multi-tool of the 401st century and I'd rather take the IP than a PW if points were tight. Don't send the IP to hunt AV14 unless the situation is dire, use it to give you an edge when taking out lighter armor like transports or rear tank AV. From a 10 man unit you get 17 bolter shots, 1 krack grenade and 1 melta shot, usually enough to at least glance something to death.


Some people seem to forget that pistols are limited to one per 5 DC. Legally getting 5 IPs in a DC drop squad will be tricky ;)

Edited by knife&fork, 16 September 2012 - 12:43 AM.

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#21
Drunken Angel

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Apples and oranges.

I don't belive in showering the DC with upgrades but an IP or two is about making them more useful in general. Melta is the multi-tool of the 401st century and I'd rather take the IP than a PW if points were tight. Don't send the IP to hunt AV14 unless the situation is dire, use it to give you an edge when taking out lighter armor like transports or rear tank AV. From a 10 man unit you get 17 bolter shots, 1 krack grenade and 1 melta shot, usually enough to at least glance something to death.


Some people seem to forget that pistols are limited to one per 5 DC. Legally getting 5 IPs in a DC drop squad will be tricky ;)


What he said, DC are not there to take out death stars or land raiders they are there to disrupt objectives and/or hunt down and kill troop choices forcing your opponent to allocate resources to defending those troops. One IP may not be enough to be a huge armour threat but its enough when combined with the bolters in a DC unit, you usually find troops near medium to low AV vehicles.

#22
CitadelArmyGuy

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Apples and oranges.

I don't belive in showering the DC with upgrades but an IP or two is about making them more useful in general. Melta is the multi-tool of the 401st century and I'd rather take the IP than a PW if points were tight. Don't send the IP to hunt AV14 unless the situation is dire, use it to give you an edge when taking out lighter armor like transports or rear tank AV. From a 10 man unit you get 17 bolter shots, 1 krack grenade and 1 melta shot, usually enough to at least glance something to death.


Some people seem to forget that pistols are limited to one per 5 DC. Legally getting 5 IPs in a DC drop squad will be tricky ;)


Yes, excellently put. When I originally referred to Pod-DC with IP, I meant a squad with 2 (legal limit). Now, I don't run more than one drop pod at all because I feel DPs are best as 'one of' items to provide Turn 1 application.

DC with IPs are meant to break something when they land, and usually fire against rear-armor (so that if AP1 fails, you may still cause hullpoint death). Then the opponent's effort their entire first turn (generally and hopefully) will be to kill off the DC sitting in their backfield. Now, IP-DC are situational, because frankly there are some lists where they have no 'worthwhile' targets, and other lists where they can simply Fix the DC in place with something cheap.

So all things roughly considered, the IP-DC can be useful but you employ them differently than pure-melee Pod-DC, as mentioned. There are far far worse ways to spend 30pts than 2 IPs on DC. One final thing to consider though is that 2 IPs and 2 Axes are 60pts, and 2 Fists are 50pts. The Axes pair well with IPs (hence taking advantage of their 'pistol ccw' status) and Bolters pair best with Fists (taking advantage of their relentless).

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#23
knife&fork

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One final thing to consider though is that 2 IPs and 2 Axes are 60pts, and 2 Fists are 50pts. The Axes pair well with IPs (hence taking advantage of their 'pistol ccw' status) and Bolters pair best with Fists (taking advantage of their relentless).


No need to put all your eggs in one basket. I prefer to spread things out whenever possible to make it harder for my enemy to get the juicy bits out o the DC. There's been a lot of discussion regarding fists vs axes already but I think the extra 10 pts is well worth it considering how much more you can do with the fist.

I run my DC pod as 8 bolter dc, 1 PF+ bolter and 1 IP + BP. The IP guy can fire both so I rarely lose any volume of fire. Plus the guy still gets the extra attack in CC.
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#24
appiah5

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I run my DC pod as 8 bolter dc, 1 PF+ bolter and 1 IP + BP. The IP guy can fire both so I rarely lose any volume of fire. Plus the guy still gets the extra attack in CC.


How doe sthat work? Gunslinger allows you to fire multiple pistols but there's nothing I can see about Relentless that allow you to fire a weapon and a pistol; they don't seem to logically stack with gunslinger?

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#25
DominicJ

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infernous pistol and bolt pistol are both pistols?

Killing it with fire since Angels of Death