seraphim in 6th

[greatcrusade08]

hi all

i was wondering who here runs seraphim, i plan to use them with celestine as IIRC they inherit her fearless and she inherits thier faith (re-rolls to wound with a heavy flamer)

 

does anyone get much mileage from the twin hand flamers?, its 40 points for two models but thats four flame templates.

and yes whilst its S3 those re-rolls to wound makes up some of the loss

 

i was looking at ten with two twin flamers and an eviscerator on the unit sister superior, figured celestine can handle the challenges as she generally kills around 2 MEQ anyway, leaving the chainfist to cleave through everything else.

 

my big concern is getting them into combat, in the game i played yesterday i probably erred a few times but i ran them behind my 2 dominion teams who scouted forwards.

in short we messed up because i stole initiative and somehow we got turns mixed up and my opponent brought on reserves in turn one, slaughtering my wole left flank (2 dominion squads and celestine with half of the seraphim)

i guess i could run them behind my SoB squads rhinos in turn one, i move them 12" and pop smoke usually, so it should give them a turn two assault.

 

so, how does everyone get on with them, please impart your wisdom for the benefit of the rest of us :D

thanks in advance

[Jacinda]

I like to take a little diversity in my units and towards the end of 5th I commonly used 1 unit of Seraphim and 2 Dominion squads. With the changes in 6th, they have gotten even better. If not for my over-reliance on Dominion tank hunters, I would take 2 squds of Seraphim now. That and I only have 12 Seraphim models ...

 

In 5th it was best to keep Saint Celestine and the Seraphim separate because they would lose Hit and Run if Celestine was with them. Now not only do Seraphim give Hit and Run to Celestine, the test is made at the unit's highest initiative; that's I7 when they are together.

 

You can reserve your Seraphim squad and deep strike them in, but I have not had much luck with unguided deep strikes. I usually go up the middle with them just behind a Dominion squad and put Celestine in front. She can soak up a lot of fire with 2+/4++ and besides, the sooner she falls the sooner she can get back up. Take cover where you can, but you are right in that they will take some fire before getting into combat.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I run the other version of Seraphim that most people forget about: power sword, plasma pistol, 2 girls with twin inferno pistols.

 

I use them to hunt armor, and be a headhunter/assassin squad for small heavily armored troops due to the AP of their weapons. They are very mobile, can consistently put out wounds on those dangerous targets, and can hit-and-run after taking a few wounds on the spare bodies (usually ran as a 7 strong unit or so) to get a second round of pistol death the next turn. I've found I didn't need the hand flamers, I needed the high strength/low AP weaponry. Dealing with hordes wasn't a big issue for me, whereas dealing with armor or elite troops was.

 

That being said, I've had a great deal of success with this unit, they blow things up quite nicely ;)

 

EDIT: I do have a Celestine model, but she was converted up and I haven't been able to play with her since really that much. The games I got in after making her were with my Daemon Hunters, and I've been too busy to play games of 6th edition thusfar, so I apologize if my experience is a little out of date. I don't think overall it makes these observations invalid though.

[greatcrusade08]

thanks the imput, much appreciated and much to think about

 

I run the other version of Seraphim that most people forget about: power sword, plasma pistol, 2 girls with twin inferno pistols.

 

yeah this was my second choice for the squad, but i too run two melta dominion squads, and now three squads of rets.

i usually come up short on low AP weaponry, but something i noticed the other day was massed flame templates kill heavy infantry pretty well (termies et al).. so aslong as my rets and dominions deal with the vehicles i should be good to run massed flamers.

[Inquisitor Fox]

i usually come up short on low AP weaponry, but something i noticed the other day was massed flame templates kill heavy infantry pretty well (termies et al).. so aslong as my rets and dominions deal with the vehicles i should be good to run massed flamers.

I figured Celestine has a heavy flamer, so I don't need more of those :) It's blowing up tanks that's always useful. I actually don't have any Dominions, having instead invested in my Seraphim from the get go. The other thing I've found they excel at is helping deal with single monstrous creatures/walkers that flamers just don't cut it at. Having them along with my Exorcist helps, then I can target infantry with my Retributors and line squads. Might be a points level thing too, I have smaller games with my Sisters due to army size. I lost an easy 500 to 750 points when it went from Witch Hunters to the WD Codex.

[greatcrusade08]

i suppose the good thing is melta pistols are still S8 just shorter range, whereas flame pistols are S3.

4 melta shots and a plasma pistol with re-rolling failed wounds should net around 3 wounds on an MC, those numerous bolt pistols might get the last wound or two aswell.

 

i think ill stick with flamers though tbh

[Inquisitor Fox]

With an attached Celestine who always wounds at the worst on a 4+ with her bazillion attacks would be the cap in said monstrous creatures day :D It's better for creature hunting if your Sister Superior has an eviscerator but I love my model with her power sword. She's been around forever so I just don't have the heart to change her. I'm not sure on the new rules about grenades and Monstrous Creatures though, so they may do okay in a melee regardless.

[Azezel]

I run the other version of Seraphim that most people forget about: power sword, plasma pistol, 2 girls with twin inferno pistols.

 

(( Preface all of this with the fact I'm playing 6e, but still using Codex: Witchhunters))

 

 

That is similar to the setup that I've found very effective.

 

One unit of seven with Power Sword/Plasma Pistol, 2x Inferno Pistols and 2x Hand Flamers.

 

AND

 

One unit of seven with 'viscerator/Bolt Pistol, 2x Hand Flamers, 2x Hand Flamers

 

Both squads have meltabombs for every Sister.

 

Both squads are strong against all targets, with one slightly stronger against infantry and one slightly stronger against armour. 6e only made Seraphim better and I really can't imagine using any other Fast Attack these days. Though admittedly if I were using the White Dwarf 'dex with its neutered Acts of Faith, that might not be the case.

 

They're still great, though.

[*Furyou Miko]

Bah. You should give the Dwarfdex a go. I'm far more successful with it than I ever was under the Inquisition list.

[Azezel]

I lost mine (not even on purpose) and unless GW feel like issuing a PDF I guess I'm stuck 'cos piracy isn't my style.

 

Stuck with a better codex...

 

I've seen people like your good self claim it's more powerful - that might even be true (though more people claim the opposite) but power I can live without... I've never seen a soul claim the White Dwarf 'dex is more fun. Fun is what matters.

[greatcrusade08]

I've never seen a soul claim the White Dwarf 'dex is more fun. Fun is what matters.

 

Heeeellllloooooo!!

i beleive the Wd dex is alot more fun than the previous one, but i never really embraced the IG elements of the previous dex so no big loss IMO

[Jacinda]

I've never seen a soul claim the White Dwarf 'dex is more fun. Fun is what matters.

 

Heeeellllloooooo!!

i beleive the Wd dex is alot more fun than the previous one, but i never really embraced the IG elements of the previous dex so no big loss IMO

+1

We lost a few options and the tactics changed but less fun it is not.

 

I hated the new codex when it came out. I felt like it had lost so much and had gutted the core elements of our army. My first couple of games were total losses where my go-to troops were swept away like leaves in the wind.

 

Then I accepted the fact that we had a new codex, a new army and I needed a new way to play. I could not rely on a single squad to keep a 2++ save and lock down deathstars. Once I took the time and played 500-750 point games each featuring a different unit from the codex, it really opened up my army. A Witch Hunter list is 4 to 6 BSS, jumppack Canoness with Seraphim, Dominion squad with 4 flamers in a flamer Immy and 3 Exorcists. 4 unit types and an HQ. My current list takes more options including Retributors, Repentia and Penitent Engines which seldom if ever saw table time under Witch Hunters.

 

Azezel, you may like C:WH better and I am quite sure there are plenty who agree with you. But for the record, this soul is having more fun with the SoB dorfdex.

[*Furyou Miko]

I had good moments with the WH book, like a single Seraphim keeping an invun save all game dancing around an Imperial Guard artillery battery killing every single demolisher and earthshaker in sight with her inferno pistols.

 

I've had lots of fun with the WDDex, even if I never take inferno pistols on Seraphim any more.

 

Then again, the transition might have been easier for me, since I never really relied on stormtroopers as anything except filler to make up for only having about 800 points of sisters at the time!

[andrewm9]

My experience with the new codex is good and bad. I tend to be epic with it. I win big or lose big. It ends up being pretty close to total army wipe either way. I have had significant problems with Blood Angels however. Until 6th arrived though I never used Seraphim with the WD codex. They just didn't cut it in 5th. Now that I can pair them with Celestine effectively I field a unit every time I play unless it is a small game.

[greatcrusade08]

i tried my seraphim in a doubles game last night in prep for a tourney, 1k a side, which IMO is a plum o a points level for SOB.

took 10 with 2x2 hand flamer, power maul and ran them with celestine.

 

im finding model placement is imperative in 6th ed, and im still learning to get that right with every army, but having JPs means i can afford to have the flamers at the back.. im not really looking to assault and get those impact hits anyway.

in our game we took on a mixed space wolf and ork army, the space wolves just about matched my model count which is a worry, dont care what anyone says those grey hunters are definately undercosted.

anyhoo, was meandering past an enemy rhino looking to charge some lootas (everything was meched up), when a lucky shot blew up he rhino.

so even though celestine couldnt fire, the flamers and bolt pistols wiped out the entire grey hunter squad.. it really was a thing of beauty.

next turn i wiped out an ork mob, only 15 left, but i caused over 20 casualties.. again celestine had left to pursue her own agenda.

 

the damage output of these gals against infantry is truelly frightening, and with hit and run aslong as you arent facing down a huge number of enemies, you could charge to tie yourself in combat to avoid getting shot up in the next turn.

 

retributors worked out fine, not huge numbers of casualties every turn, but caused the odd hull point on a flyer or kills two or three enemies in a round of shooting

if they roll thier rending faith, then using focus fire is great.

 

edit: something i had forgotten during the game, but discussed at the end, was the use of grenades.. one of the squad may throw a frag instead of firing pistols right?

so potentially its 4 hand flamers, a heavy flamer, frag grenade and 13 pistol shots all re-rolling to wound

im guessing that would obliterate just about any infantry target

[Captain Idaho]

Just out of interest guys and girls; can a Seraphim Sister Superior get two plasma pistols?

[TristanAquaeusRodentbane]

Unfortunately no, although that would be awesome.

 

Cheers- Rodentbane

[greatcrusade08]

Just out of interest guys and girls; can a Seraphim Sister Superior get two plasma pistols?

 

would be cool, but sadly no..

im thinking would be a nice combo for the 2 x 2 melta pistols, but its 120 points just for the wargear, which is crazy IMO

[Inquisitor Fox]

I wish she could get two plasma pistols... pew pew...

 

It's just the one, but even just the one dovetails relatively nice with the 2 2x inferno pistols. Mixed opinion of power weapon vs eviscerator. The points seem a little expensive, it's true, but remember that the jump pack allows you to maneuver around vehicles to almost always get a side or rear armor shot. The shorter range of the inferno pistols is mitigated by having whatever armor flank you want as your target.

[RookBartly]

I run Seraphims and run with two carring the hand flamers but I never fire them Twin linked. Because they are pistols, you can choose to fire them as seperate weapons. I am more then happy to roll 10 dice on 5 models that are hit then 5 twin linked because you have a greater chance to get more hits.

[Inquisitor Fox]

I believe GC08 is referring to their Act of Faith being in effect :)

[greatcrusade08]

I believe GC08 is referring to their Act of Faith being in effect :P

 

yeah i try to avoid using the words "twin linked", seraphim with celestine attached only need a 3+ to pass thier faith rolls, and they get to re-roll fails, thats pretty much a 90% chance of getting the re-rolls to wound.

the flamers along with faith make for a deadly combo