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Stage 1 - Space Marine Heroes and Other Chapters


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#1
Brother Tyler

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Expanding the heroes available to the Space Marines has two purposes. First, it builds upon the earlier editions of the game (Terminator Captains). Second, it allows for full substitution of Chapters (the Black Templars don't have Librarians, so it seems only fitting that they get a more characterful hero option other than just the Captain/Marshal).

Keep in mind that the rules we develop will be an update. The Terminator Captain rules from 1st/2nd edition were largely driving/driven by the Terminator Captain model available at that time. There is a new model, so the Terminator Captain rules we create will be based on that model (with no conversion requirements, though players are certainly free to add conversions if they want). Likewise, we'll be using the stock Terminator Chaplain miniature as the basis for our rules. Yes, both heroes have a variety of options in the different codices in which they appear, and there are numerous special characters for standard Warhammer 40,000 in tactical dreadnought armour, but this is a more streamlined system and will be based upon the stock characters/models.

The intent here is to create the baseline rules that will apply across the range of missions/campaigns. Missions/campaigns will be built and balanced around these baseline rules.

Each hero will have two posts. The first will be the one in which we track changes. So it will appear messy with edited text (red and struck through if it has been removed/changed, yellow/orange if it has been added). The second will be the clean version presenting the current version of the rules that we are working with (and when we're done, the final version of the rules). The clean versions won't be visible until we start changing things.

Terminator Captain
Terminator Chaplain
Substituting Chapters


#2
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifTERMINATOR CAPTAIN (changes)
A Captain is a hardened veteran, a master strategist who has proven his prowess in battle. The instructions for a mission will tell you if a Captain is part of the Space Marine force.

COMBAT VETERAN MASTER OF WARFARE
Terminator Captains are highly experienced combat veterans. To represent this they add +1 +2 to the dice in a close assault in the same a manner as similar to a Space Marine Sergeant.

RITES OF BATTLE
Terminator Captains are masters of the battlefield, able to read its ebb and flow as ancient mariners would judge the changing of the sea. A Terminator Captain has a superhuman grasp of strategy and tactics, as well as the wit to employ them in the ever-changing arena of warfare. If the Terminator Captain is in play, the Space Marine player receives two additional Command points. If the Terminator Captain is removed from play for any reason, the Space Marine player may spend the remaining extra Command points during that turn, but will no longer get them in subsequent turns.

POWER SWORD
Terminator Captains are armed with power swords, following the normal rules for those weapons.

STORM BOLTER
Terminator Captains are armed with storm bolters, following the normal rules for those weapons.

Edited by Brother Tyler, 08 October 2013 - 09:37 AM.


#3
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifTERMINATOR CAPTAIN (clean)
A Captain is a hardened veteran, a master strategist who has proven his prowess in battle. The instructions for a mission will tell you if a Captain is part of the Space Marine force.

MASTER OF WARFARE
Terminator Captains are highly experienced combat veterans. To represent this they add +2 to the dice in a close assault in a manner similar to a Space Marine Sergeant.

RITES OF BATTLE
Terminator Captains are masters of the battlefield, able to read its ebb and flow as ancient mariners would judge the changing of the sea. A Terminator Captain has a superhuman grasp of strategy and tactics, as well as the wit to employ them in the ever-changing arena of warfare. If the Terminator Captain is in play, the Space Marine player receives two additional Command points. If the Terminator Captain is removed from play for any reason, the Space Marine player may spend the remaining extra Command points during that turn, but will no longer get them in subsequent turns.

POWER SWORD
Terminator Captains are armed with power swords, following the normal rules for those weapons.

STORM BOLTER
Terminator Captains are armed with storm bolters, following the normal rules for those weapons.

Edited by Brother Tyler, 19 August 2013 - 12:09 AM.


#4
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifTERMINATOR CHAPLAIN (changes)
The Chaplains of a Space Marine Chapter are priests of the Chapter's warrior cult. As exemplars of the Chapter's honour, they inspire their battle-brothers with their orations and their combat prowess. The instructions for a mission will tell you if a Terminator Chaplain is part of the Space Marine force.

COMBAT VETERAN
Terminator Chaplains are highly experienced combat veterans. To represent this they add +1 to the dice in a close assault in the same manner as a Space Marine Sergeant.

INSPIRATIONAL
When war calls, a Chaplain fights wherever the conflict is fiercest, leading from the front and rejoicing in the slaughter of the enemy as one doing righteous work. He chants the liturgies of battle with every breath, punctuating his praise with strikes from his Crozius Arcanum. By his example and his piety, the Chaplain exhorts his Brother-Marines to the pinnacle of dedication, so that they might conquer with valour that which would resist all else. Any Space Marine model that is activated within 3 12 squares of a Terminator Chaplain starts with 5 APs instead of the normal 4 for the duration of the turn adds +1 to the results when resolving a close assault action. The Space Marine is considered to be within 12 squares of the Terminator Chaplain if it can trace a path to the Terminator Chaplain model in 12 squares or less, and may not be separated from the Chaplain by a closed door or wall.

CROZIUS ARCANUM
The Chaplain's Crozius Arcanum serves as both a badge of office and a weapon of war. A Terminator Chaplain ... when resolving the effects of a close assault to the Chaplain's front. A Crozius Arcanum functions as a power maul (see the Expanded Weapons Rules).

STORM BOLTER
Terminator Captains Chaplains are armed with storm bolters, following the normal rules for those weapons.

Edited by Brother Tyler, 08 October 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#5
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifTERMINATOR CHAPLAIN (clean)
The Chaplains of a Space Marine Chapter are priests of the Chapter's warrior cult. As exemplars of the Chapter's honour, they inspire their battle-brothers with their orations and their combat prowess. The instructions for a mission will tell you if a Terminator Chaplain is part of the Space Marine force.

COMBAT VETERAN
Terminator Chaplains are highly experienced combat veterans. To represent this they add +1 to the dice in a close assault in the same manner as a Space Marine Sergeant.

INSPIRATIONAL
When war calls, a Chaplain fights wherever the conflict is fiercest, leading from the front and rejoicing in the slaughter of the enemy as one doing righteous work. He chants the liturgies of battle with every breath, punctuating his praise with strikes from his Crozius Arcanum. By his example and his piety, the Chaplain exhorts his Brother-Marines to the pinnacle of dedication, so that they might conquer with valour that which would resist all else. Any Space Marine model that is within 12 squares of a Terminator Chaplain adds +1 to the results when resolving a close assault action. The Space Marine is considered to be within 12 squares of the Terminator Chaplain if it can trace a path to the Terminator Chaplain model in 12 squares or less, and may not be separated from the Chaplain by a closed door or wall.

CROZIUS ARCANUM
The Chaplain's Crozius Arcanum serves as both a badge of office and a weapon of war. A Crozius Arcanum functions as a power maul (see the Expanded Weapons Rules).

STORM BOLTER
Terminator Chaplains are armed with storm bolters, following the normal rules for those weapons.

Edited by Brother Tyler, 19 August 2013 - 12:09 AM.


#6
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifSUBSTITUTING CHAPTERS (changes)
Many Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes have faced the Genestealer menace at one time or another, whether aboard space hulks, deep within labyrinthine hive worlds, or even in bitter combat defending Adeptus Astartes vessels from hostile boarding actions. Players can substitute the Blood Angels models from the Space Hulk game with similarly equipped Terminator models from a Chapter of their own choosing, often with little or no change other than the cosmetic appearance of the models. Guidelines for effecting such Chapter substitutions are provided below.

BLACK TEMPLARS
Black Templars forces use the Terminator Captain rules for the Marshal and follow the standard Terminator Chaplain rules. In missions for which the Librarian is used the Black Templars player may use either the Terminator Captain or Terminator Chaplain. The standard Terminator/Terminator Sergeant rules represent Sword Brother Terminators.

BLOOD ANGELS
The Blood Angels follow the normal rules.

CODEX CHAPTERS
Codex Chapters follow the normal rules.

DARK ANGELS
Dark Angels (Deathwing) forces use either the standard Terminator Captain rules to represent Belial, or may use the expanded rules when the Belial model uses one of the alternative weapons/wargear kits. The standard Terminator Chaplain rules may be used to represent an Interrogator Chaplain and the standard Librarian rules may be used to represent a Librarian from the Dark Angels Chapter. The standard Terminator/Terminator Sergeant rules represent Deathwing Terminators.

GREY KNIGHTS
The Grey Knights are unique among the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes and are not suitable for use in regular Space Hulk. We may explore an expansion for using Grey Knights, but this will likely involve replacing the Genestealers with an opponent more suited to the Grey Knights (i.e., Daemons of some kind). If we do this, it will be part of a later expansion to the Indomitus Project and not part of our initial work.

SPACE WOLVES
Space Wolves forces use the standard Terminator Captain rules to represent a Wolf Lord. The standard Terminator Chaplain rules may be used to represent a Wolf Priest and the standard Librarian rules may be used to represent a Rune Priest. The standard Terminator/Terminator Sergeant rules represent Wolf Guard.

#7
Brother Tyler

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I made a small adjustment to the Terminator Captain, giving him a +2 bonus in close assault (instead of the +1 he had before). This makes him better than Terminator Sergeants and other heroes (which is probably as it should be).



#8
Brother Tyler

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I fixed the Terminator Chaplain entry, providing the explanation for how the Crozius Arcanum works (based on a revision to rules format) and replacing the cut and paste error (had "Captains" instead of "Chaplains" in the storm bolter rule).

#9
Brother Tyler

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I'm having second thoughts about excluding the Grey Knights (I'm a big fan of Chapter 666, as I'm sure many of you are), so I'll be changing the information above to allow them. It is likely that these rules will focus on the weapons, leaving out most of the psyker stuff. They'll still be able to take Librarians, of course, but we'll focus on them as Space Marine Terminators and not as daemon hunters. This is going to force an expansion to the expanded weapons rules, which I'm in the process of working on (building the initial rules from which we'll develop finalized rules through discussion). So look for a change to this discussion later.

#10
Brother Tyler

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At least one other option presents itself for the Chaplains (and I think that Renoster might present us with another option). Instead of giving friendly models an additional AP for the turn ...

... a Chaplain might give all nearby friendly models a bonus for close assault resolution (+1).

... (Renoster's option).

Now the piece from Renoster's that I like is the possibility of the Chaplain ability being an action where the Chaplain spends X AP and derives a benefit. Whether or not this will actually work will depend upon a number of factors and will rely upon playtesting in order for us to make a determination.

We'll see what Renoster provides, and then we'll playtest our options to see what works best, either as presented or with modification.

#11
Renoster

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Brother Tyler thanks for the opportunity.

We use our chaplains to buff our marines. 'Recite' can be set similarly to guard or Overwatch. It costs 2AP but can be done during the action phase and takes effect immediately. If the chaplain moves or performs another action (other than assaulting or shooting) once set to recite in the action phase, Recite is lost. Note that Recite is a combat enhancer, therefore if the Chaplain is assaulted or fires in Overwatch whilst on recite, Recite is not lost!

Recite adds +1 to close combat dice. We experimented with it allowing a re-roll like a parry but decided that whilst enraged you are likely to be more brutal/stronger/faster in CA, not necessarily more skillfull. In addition, Recite adds another die to Overwatch/Shooting. This reflects the marksmanship focus provided by Recite. Another die of course adds a greater chance of weapons jam, so it's not all gravy. Due to vox comms, Recite is valid for marines activated up to 12 squares away, not in LOS or same room as you use. Any further and the Hulk disrupts vox comms making them useless.

Another byproduct of Recite is Vengeful, whereby all buffed marines who can see a marine killed in CA will turn and fire/assault at no AP cost at the killer stealer in an attempt to avenge their fallen brother. This occurs whether they are in immediate danger themselves or not, and can wreak havoc with your carefull planned fields of overwatch fire or guard. Remaining CP can be used to return marines to their previous orientation, and they do not lose Overwatch/Guard. If assaulted themselves in their new orientation, results are resolved normally with the +1 still in place. We felt that this adds a level to using Recite, so it doesn't become totally lobsided toward angry Terminators waltzing through missions.

As far as the Chaplain himself, we treat him as you do, adding +1 to his CA but he always gets 3 dice in shooting. We think that in order to survive in the vanguard of any Company you must be a steely eyed dealer of death, and to be the 1st Coy Chaplain you must be doubly so. We have played with 5AP for Chaplains/Captains and also with recite costing 4AP. We felt that a 4AP Recite cost removes the Chaplain from front line action and combat, and puts him in a a more support/reactive role, which is not how we view them as stated above. We think they should be getting messy at the front but have the survivability to do so. We have experimented with +1 AND a parry and our chaplain survived an entire mission almost singlehandedly and killed a Broodlord, so it may be overpowered, but more testing required.

Please note that our small group are pretty narrative and heroic action driven and do not do battle maths etc. Our rules are not watertight by any means, simply designed to get more flavour and characters in the game. It's likely that some of our rules are overpowered but we all enjoy last stands and skin of our teeth successes. I'm really happy and thankful to be involved in this discussion!

We have Terminator Apothecary rules and change our ruleset for different chapters and Deathwatch.

Edited for typos

Edited by Renoster, 28 October 2012 - 02:11 PM.


#12
Brother Tyler

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I think that the safe compromise for right now is a Chaplain providing a +1 bonus in close assault for all friendly models within 12 squares (must be able to trace a path to the Chaplain that is 12 squares or less without going through any closed doors).

There is no real precedent for Chaplains enhancing the shooting attacks of friendly models, nor is there a precedent for the vengeful idea.

The Chaplain's shooting ability will not exceed that of the Captain - Chaplains, after all, are known more for their assault orientation than their shooting.

As for whether or not to assign this an Action Point cost, I'm inclined to make it a free bonus. Chaplains are reciting the liturgies of hate whenever they are in the thick of combat, so it doesn't seem necessary for them to sacrifice actions in order to represent the benefit. The limited effect of the rule makes a "no AP" cost seem right in my mind. We'll see what playtesting says.

The previous rules I found called the special Chaplain rules "inspirational" whereas Renoster's AP-focused usage is "recite." I think that "inspirational" is more appropriate, though I'd actually prefer to change it to something like "litanies of hate" or something else appropriate. I don't want to just lift a rule name from the codex, however, since the mechanics are slightly different (though they would achieve roughly similar effects).

We can worry about a Terminator Apothecary (for the Deathwing) later. It's actually pretty easy (in my mind), but we'll hit it up soon.

There won't be special rules for different Chapters in this project since the standard Space Hulk rules don't incorporate any special rules for the Blood Angels that are portrayed in the game. We might look at the Grey Knights later, but any other "special" rules for Chapters will largely be limited to weapons combinations (e.g., if we ever write a Salamanders mission/campaign, we might make it possible for a standard Salamanders Terminator [Firedrake] to take a thunder hammer and storm bolter combination).

I'll go adjust the rules for the Chaplain and we'll begin our playtest.

#13
Renoster

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Brother Tyler,

40k Chaplains are renowned for close combat prowess but isn't SH predicated on shooting? If they give you a Storm Bolter in the 1st Coy you better know how to use it! Agreed though that a Captain should be superior, but should a chaplain shoot better than a marine? I've remembered the reason we tested the re-roll and +1 in CA: the chaplains rosarius. He was a doubly hard bugger with that though, possibly too much so.

I bow to your probably superior knowledge of chaplain fluff but forms of 'vengeful' seem to be fairly common in homebrewed Chaplain rules. Adds a uncontrollable potential that feeds into next observation.

If you make the buff free, do you not lose game balance? What does the Stealer side gain other than marines who are now more resistant to their sole form of combat? With CP or Psi points at least there is a finite amount. Yes according to Codex litanies of hate is always underway during combat but I think it adds another level in the same way using CP and Psi does. Do i want the benefit of increased combat prowess right now or do I need to perform more actions right now? A free buff is just like providing more AP or dice in effect. Are you limiting what else can be taken in the squad if a chaplain is present? Our group love to see the marines win, but we like a messy fight along the way.

What effect would a closed door have within 12 squares? They're not shouting or hand signalling to each other, especially in a potential lightless vacuum. I'm not being arsey, genuinely interested in your reasoning.

Looking forward to Salamanders rules. Mine are based on the ' hands up if you like flame weapons, hammers and shields' theory. Willingly entering CC with the kit to break hearts and take names.

#14
Brother Tyler

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Yes, for the Space Marines the game is all about effective shooting. However, for the purposes of this project the rules for the characters still have some basis in standard WH40K rules (albeit with some unique elements that are holdovers from the previous editions of the game).

The Librarian doesn't receive any advantages in shooting his storm bolter (nor did he in 1st edition). He does have psychic storm, but that's a psyker power and is effectively a modification of Smite (or the Sunburst power in the WH40K rulebook). The psychic powers available to Librarians in 1st edition (via Deathwing and Genestealer) were many and varied, and they were based on a card system that made the tactics a bit different. The psychic storm power in 3rd edition is a blend of the old Smite and Hellfire powers. The prescience psychic power is new and isn't based on the old power of the same name, effectively providing a minor buff for the entire Space Marine side. The force barrier power, too, is completely new. The big thing, though, is that the Librarian can use his psi points to augment his close combat effectiveness, making him unstoppable in close assault (until he runs out of psi points - then he's just as vulnerable as everyone else).

What the Librarian really does, though, is provide a movement defense/control in the form of the force barrier power. While he can be a force to be reckoned with in close assault, his real strength is using his psyker power to control Genestealer movement. Psychic storm is a good power to use when you need to destroy a bunch of Genestealers/blips in a single board section. If you mainly use of the Librarian is to get him stuck in assault, you're squandering his abilities (or you're desperate, which isn't unheard of in Space Hulk ;) ). The main tactics with the Librarian involve him providing breathing room for the Space Marines by limiting the Genestealer movements.

Also note that the ability of Librarians to augment their close assault with psi points was part of the 1st edition Space Hulk and 1st and 2nd edition WH40K rules. The changes to psychic powers in standard WH40K have resulted in similar, but more limited, effects being represented through psychic powers. GW retained this special rule in 3rd edition Space Hulk and while it's great, I think that it distracts players from the best usage of the Librarian (and perhaps that was deliberate on GW's part, providing a tactical red herring).

Looking at the Captain rules I've presented, those are firmly based on the rules for Captains from 1st edition (via Deathwing). Note that the Captain didn't (and doesn't) get any buffs to shooting. If anyone is going to be more effective at shooting, it's the Captain. While he has a minor buff in his close assault, his main strength is in his command ability and the bonus of 2 CPs. The only thing that Captains brought that might be considered a shooting buff were the grenade launchers, which I've preserved (their analogy in modern terms being an auxiliary grenade launcher, which I'm pretty sure was based on the Deathwing rules and the old model).

Looking at Chaplains, their primary role in standard WH40K terms is in making units slightly more effective in assault. In the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd editions of the game they didn't even have special rules, merely serving as characters with special equipment and special stat lines. It wasn't until 4th edition and later that we saw the Chaplains getting special rules about the battle liturgies that were described in previous editions (under various names). These have always focused on enhancing the performance of friendly Space Marines in assault, though.

The current special rule for Chaplains, what I'm calling "Inspirational" for now unless we come up with something better (I'm thinking "Battle Liturgies" or "Liturgies of Hate") are a variation on the Litanies of Battle special rule in the codex. Standard WH40K would only allow this benefit to be applied to a unit the Chaplain has joined. Space Hulk doesn't have coherency, though, and limiting the rule too much would make it ineffective. That special rule is really what the Chaplain brings to the table, so it has to have a large enough range to make it worthwhile while keeping it balanced. I've added the "trace a path" as a control mechanism to sort of represent the nonexistent coherency rules, but also to keep it from being too effective. In practice, it's much more manageable than a 12 square radius (unless you get a stick or other measuring device). It makes placement of the Chaplain a tactical consideration, just like placement of the Librarian when using his force barrier power.

One thing I've held off on the Chaplain is any further bonus he might get in close assault. I want to figure out whether or not the crozius arcanum/power maul provides any benefit over a power fist before I do that. If the crozius arcanum is just as (in)effective as a power fist, then the Chaplain might get a further +1 bonus in close assault. If the crozius arcanum is more effective than a power fist, then the Chaplain will get that bonus. Regardless, I anticipate the Chaplain getting a further bonus in close assault when all is said and done.

There's no need to represent Fearless since there's no need for that mechanic in Space Hulk.

Keep in mind that this project is fairly conservative and is based as much as possible on what can be translated from the standard WH40K rules. While there are some unusual elements that are being kept based on Space Hulk mechanics (e.g., parrying with power swords), we're not inherently changing anything in the translation. Making Chaplains more effective at shooting and allowing them to make other Space Marines vengeful doesn't have a basis in the standard WH40K rules. There's absolutely nothing wrong with your group using those elements if you like them, but it's not within the scope of what we're doing here.

The Salamanders per se won't be getting any special rules. If we create a campaign that features the Salamanders (and I'd very much like to do that), the missions might include models with unusual weapons combinations, but they'll primarily be balanced for the generic weapons loadouts. So while the standard mission rules might (hypothetically) feature a Sergeant with power weapon and storm bolter, a Terminator with a heavy flamer, and three Terminators with power fists and storm bolters, the Salamanders version might replace the Sergeant's power weapon with a thunder hammer (changing the dynamic of how he performs in close assault); or another mission that includes the Terminator with a power fist and assault cannon might replace the assault cannon with a heavy flamer (conceivably having two heavy flamers in the force).

Likewise, special rules for Chapters are going to be practically nonexistent. The official 3rd edition Space Hulk rules didn't present rules for Blood Angels Terminators - they just presented rules for Terminators that happened to be Blood Angels. This follows GW's precedent with all three editions of the game and the missions/campaigns that were published in White Dwarf magazine. Granted, 1st and 2nd edition came out when the Chapters had little or nothing to differentiate them except for their colors and background. The 3rd edition perpetuated this practice, though, after Chapters received special rules to separate them from each other. The real benefit this provides is that the rules remained streamlined. Also, all of the available missions can be combined in different ways to create different campaigns utilizing different Chapters without having to worry about game balance.

Space Hulk provides us with a very basic set of game mechanics, a simplified system because it is closed (generic Space Marine Terminators versus generic Genestealers) and thematic (highly stressful timer and "slowness" for the Terminators against a seemingly endless horde of ultimate killing machines). We're preserving that simplified system in the Indomitus project as much as possible.

#15
Renoster

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Brother Tyler,
Thank you for such a detailed response. I know now exactly how you are approaching the new rules as an attempt to import 40k congruency. I have never played 40k despite reading codicies for fluff and therefore was approaching the whole thing differently!

#16
SentinelV

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One thing you could do to represent the greater ballistic skill (BS) of Captains etc is to allow them a greater sustained fire bonus. Instead of just hitting on 5's on sustained fire, the third sustained fire shot could be on 4+. This could be overpowering in Overwatch though so it could be limited to shots where AP/CP are spent.

#17
Brother Tyler

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Terminator Captains didn't have any real shooting benefits in 1st edition, except that they also had grenade launchers. The first Terminator Captain models were equipped with a storm bolter, power sword, power glove (fist), and grenade launcher. The current range of Terminator Captain models don't have this diversity of weapons, however (and can't take the storm bolter, power sword, and power fist together anyways).

An analysis of Terminator Captains shooting in standard WH40K shows that the Captain has a 41% chance to kill a Genestealer whereas a regular Terminator only has a 33% chance to kill (both percentages are per shot, so consider the Assault 2 type of the storm bolter).

Perhaps a better option would be to always allow the Terminator Captain to roll as if under sustained fire. So storm bolters (combi-bolters for Chaos Lords) and bolters destroy Genestealers on a 5+ regardless, whereas other weapons that don't confer a sustained fire bonus (the special weapon portions of combi-weapons) are fired normally. Terminator Captains wouldn't get an additional sustained fire bonus (to 4+) later, minimizing the impact of their bonus while accurately reflecting their WH40K profile.

#18
Brother Tyler

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Okay, I've been revisiting the issues of the Deathwing and the Grey Knights recently (as I've been working on the final rulebook).

With regard to the Deathwing, I'm specifically talking about Deathwing Knights and the special elements of the Deathwing Command Squad (the standard Deathwing squad follows the standard Terminator rules from Space Hulk 3rd Edition without any problems). Serious discussion of the Deathwing starts with the special weapons available to the Deathwing Knights and Deathwing Command squad, as seen here.

The Deathwing Knights and the Deathwing Command squad bring an enhanced stat line (okay, the Deathwing Champion is the only member of the Deathwing Command squad that has the enhanced stat line). This stat line is better than that of the standard (Deathwing) Terminator Sergeant. It pretty much justifies all of the relevant models benefiting from the Sergeant's special rule in close assault.

In addition, the Deathwing Command squad brings both a Deathwing Apothecary and (optionally) a standard. To be honest, the apothecary isn't that big a deal in Space Hulk. He sacrifices the power fist for a narthecium. This piece of wargear works best when the squad operates as a group, which doesn't happen in Space Hulk. Allowing the narthecium to work if the Deathwing Apothecary is adjacent to another Terminator model might work (though it seems somewhat counterintuitive to think that he can heal a battle-brother faster than a Genestealer can rip the battle-brother to shreds - like a tug of war between the Genestealer and the Deathwing Apothecary). So what I'm thinking is something along the lines of:

NARTHECIUM
If a Terminator model loses a close assault while in the space directly in front of an Apothecary, the Apothecary may attempt to heal the injury. The Apothecary rolls a dice and on a result of 5 or 6, the close assault result is ignored.


This would be accompanied by an image. The requirement for a 5 or 6 is intended to reflect the fact that healing isn't a sure thing (even though it is automatic in standard WH40K). One thing I'm considering is whether or not the "close assault" wording is right. I can't think of any other situation in which a Terminator model would be injured in 3rd edition Space Hulk since the Genestealers only have their gribbly claws. Unlike in earlier editions, the Ladders rule (which includes an aspect of the old Pitfall rule) doesn't include any provisions for Terminators being injured if they fall. I'm not worried about Space Marines versus Chaos Space Marines in these rules (those will be in Indomitus: The Long War).

The real value I see in the Apothecary is that there might be a new mission revolving around his medical skills. We can save that for the mission development, though. Aside from a new mission that revolves around the Apothecary, I can't see any reason why a player would want to take an Apothecary. A Dark Angels player might not have a choice, though, so it's not unfair to include rules for the model. If a player has the option, though, and wants to take the Apothecary, it would be an option as a replacement for a Terminator equipped with a storm bolter and power fist. The Apothecary is equipped with a storm bolter and narthecium.

Switching to the Deathwing Champion, his main rules are captured in the Sergeant bonus (he would effectively replace the standard Sergeant). He has the Halberd of Caliban (rules in the linked discussion). Other than that, there are no special rules for the Deathwing Champion.

Now for the Grey Knights. Their Nemesis force weapons are being discussed here. I also began looking at their psyker powers in that post, but that portion needs to shift here (though it is related to their weapons).

Since being psykers is fundamental to the Grey Knights, it wouldn't seem appropriate to ignore that aspect. However, the combination of their psyker nature and the benefits of their Nemesis force weapons can't be allowed to shift the balance and dynamics of the game too far from the norm. One of the essential elements of the game is the fact that close assault is a Bad Thing for the Terminators. Some models have a better chance of surviving close assaults with Genestealers, but these are in the minority. The problem with the Grey Knights is that the entire squad has benefits.

So my first effort to reduce the impact of the Grey Knights is reflected in the rules for their weapons (see the linked discussion). The other element is the fact that all of their close assault weapons are force weapons. So the balancing factor is in limiting their force points. To this end, I think that limiting them to 5 points is right. It allows them enough points to allow the force weapons to be real while only having enough points to work in a handful of close assaults (a maximum of 5 if they're lucky, but potentially just 1).

Beyond that, standard Grey Knights Terminators function as regular Terminators (and the rules for Incinerators, Psycannons, and Psilencers are also included).

Paladins are similar to the Deathwing Knights in both their respective place in the Chapter and statline. So Paladins also benefit from the Sergeant special rule in close assault. The only real problem here is that Paladins can be equipped just like regular Grey Knights Terminator squads (whereas Deathwing Knights are limited to close assault). I can't think of anything really worthwhile to balance, this, however (without adding layers of complexity that run counter to the streamlined concepts of 3rd edition Space Hulk). Paladins also bring Apothecaries, but these would work exactly as above. Regardless, the Holocaust power of the Paladins won't factor into Indomitus.

In missions where the Librarian, Captain, or Chaplain are used, Grey Knights characters would have Nemesis versions of their weapons (okay, there is no real adjustment to the Grey Knights Librarian beyond the weapon). They would also be psykers with 5 force points (other than the Librarian, who functions as normal).

So I'm adding sections for Apothecaries, the Deathwing, and Grey Knights to the rules. What you see above is just an initial assessment and is open to discussion/revision.

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#19
JeffJedi

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Brother Tyler how about this slight adjustment:

 

NARTHECIUM
If a Terminator model loses a close assault while on the same board section as an Apothecary, the Apothecary may attempt to heal the injury.
The Apothecary rolls a dice and on a result of 5 or 6, the close assault result is ignored.

 

This give a natural area of effect for the ability that matches the flamer template without forcing the Apothecary to walk directly behind one key model the whole game. The end of the second sentence could read : the model is restored (to normal?)

 

It would be possible for an Apothecary to watch over  more than one model in this way but if the marine player tries to hold up in one room  he will not be playing to the mission and will be swarmed. A good balance, the rule is helpful but not over powered.


Edited by JeffJedi, 24 December 2013 - 09:32 AM.


#20
Brother Tyler

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To be honest, I don't see the Apothecary's role being to heal other models. He's really only likely to be used in a mission where his medical expertise is part of the overall objective (gathering specimens, etc.). Also, while the Feel No Pain rule is basically an area-effect rule in standard WH40K, I don't think that's right for Space Hulk. Also, canny Space Marine players might put an Apothecary on a tile with multiple Terminators in an effort to maximize the healing ability of the narthecium, though it wouldn't make sense that the Apothecary would be able to heal multiple models at once (especially under the time constraints of Space Hulk).

And when you get right down to it, Apothecaries are only found in two types of Terminator squads and neither of those is the basic type for their Chapter. The first is a Deathwing Command squad (as opposed to a standard Deathwing Terminator squad) and the second is a Grey Knights Paladin squad (as opposed to a standard Grey Knights Terminator squad). I don't see any reason to make these optional squad types more enticing.

I may be in a minority here, so I'm interested in hearing what others think, though I really think we should exercise caution with this one.

Switching to the Chaplain, I took a look at his rules and impact on game play and decided that our current set of rules lacks the oomph necessary to make the Chaplain a viable alternative to the Librarian or Captain. What I'm considering is adding the provision that having a Chaplain on the board allows the Space Marine player to re-draw the Command Points exactly as if there were a Sergeant on the board. This wouldn't be cumulative, so having a Sergeant and a Chaplain on the board would only get you one re-draw. So it's a very minor tweak, but gives the Chaplain a bit more to make him a decent prospect.

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#21
deathspectersgt7

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No apothecary's they would be useless. 


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#22
Brother Tyler

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No apothecary's they would be useless.

I tend to agree, but I want to give something just in case:
  • Deathwing/Grey Knights players don't have any option
  • we ever develop missions where an Apothecary in tactical dreadnought armour has a role
I currently see them as a very unlikely element, but don't want to limit players' options too much. If we give them something usable, even if it's not great, then I'm okay with that.

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#23
Grimm Blade

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No apothecary's they would be useless.

I tend to agree, but I want to give something just in case:
  • Deathwing/Grey Knights players don't have any option
  • we ever develop missions where an Apothecary in tactical dreadnought armour has a role
I currently see them as a very unlikely element, but don't want to limit players' options too much. If we give them something usable, even if it's not great, then I'm okay with that.

If you wanted to incorporate Terminator Apothecarys, then you could use them as a part of a specific mission. Perhaps you start the mission with X Terminator casualties placed in rooms by the GS player, and the Apothecary must retrieve their Gene Seed and exit the board safely in order to win the mission. OR you could use him to restore a wound to a model in base contact with him....  


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#24
Brother Tyler

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Absolutely. I think that there are multiple ways in which Apothecaries can be incorporated so that their specialty is important.

I don't think that we need to be prescriptive in the rules, allowing mission/campaign developers to come up with ways to incorporate the Apothecary (if they desire). What I'm considering now is whether or not to include a section on creating missions/campaigns - guidance and advice rather than prescriptive formulae.

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#25
Brother Tyler

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We're going to press forward with these rules. For those units/Chapters for which official rules were provided in mission packs, we'll simply point to those rules while continuing to provide these rules as homegrown alternatives for those players who, like me, don't have access to the mission packs.

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