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Stage 1 - Expanded Weapons Rules


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#1
Brother Tyler

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While the campaign/mission development is intended to be balanced under the closed system concept and our basic rules will be based on the stock models, many players have lovingly converted miniatures to represent their heroes, and the Terminators of the Traitor Legions often carry baroque weapons from the days of the Horus Heresy. It would be a shame to to deny them the use those models, so we're also going to explore small variations in the rules that will allow for these models to be used. In most cases this will be a simple swapping of the weapons rules for the basic characters. For the most part, special rules will be ignored, including for special characters. For example, Captain Lysander would have a thunder hammer and storm shield instead of the power sword and storm bolter. Belial, Master of the Deathwing, might use the standard Captain rules (the Sword of Silence simply counting as a power sword), he might be equipped similarly to Lysander, or he might have twin lightning claws (and this might all change with the new codex). Both of those are fairly simple and might be governed by basic guidelines.

The rules below apply to both loyalists and traitors and are available per the relevant codex entries (e.g., a Terminator from the Dark Angels Deathwing cannot take a reaper autocannon).

Bolter and Combi-Weapons
Power Weapons
Force Weapons
Other Weapons
Deathwatch Weapons
Deathwing Weapons
Grey Knights Weapons
Space Wolves Weapons


#2
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifBOLTERS AND COMBI-WEAPONS (changes)

BOLTER
A bolter follows the same rules as a storm bolter as found in the Space Hulk Rulebook, except that a bolter has a slower rate of fire and rolls only 1D6 when shooting at targets over 12 squares away.

COMBI-BOLTER
A combi-bolter follows the same rules as a storm bolter as found in the Space Hulk Rulebook.

COMBI-FLAMER
The bolter portion of a combi-flamer follows the normal bolter rules above.

The flamer portion of a combi-flamer is a smaller version of the heavy flamer typically carried by terminators, projecting a gout of burning promethium that can incinerate a swath of enemies, and coating the room or corridor with fuel that continues to burn for a short period after firing. It costs 1 AP to take a shoot action with a flamer. This can be combined with a move or turn action, paying only the 1 or 2 APs for the move or turn action and firing the flamer 'for free' after the move or turn action has been completed. A flamer can target a model or square up to 12 spaces away. This may be an empty square.

Area Effect
Flamers affect entire map sections in the same manner as heavy flamers as described in the Space Hulk Rulebook, except that target models are destroyed on a roll of 5 or higher.

Persistent Effect
Flamers have a persistent effect in the same manner as heavy flamers as described in the Space Hulk Rulebook.

Limited Ammunition
A combi-flamer only carries sufficient fuel for one shot. Use one of the flamer counters provided, setting the counter aside when it has been used. If other models on the same side also carry heavy flamers and/or combi-flamers, use the mission status board to keep track of which models have fired their heavy flamer or flamer shots.

Flamers and Doors
Flamers cannot destroy or shoot through closed doors, just as heavy flamers as described in the Space Hulk Rulebook.

COMBI-MELTAGUN
The bolter portion of a combi-meltagun follows the normal bolter rules above.

The melta portion of a combi-meltagun is capable of reducing rock, metal, and living material to molten slag or ash. It costs 1 AP to take a shoot action with a meltagun. This can be combined with a move or turn action, paying only the 1 or 2 APs for the move or turn action and firing the meltagun 'for free' after the move or turn action has been completed. A meltagun can target a model or door up to 12 spaces away. Roll 1D6; the piece is destroyed on a roll of 4 or higher. The melta portion of a combi-meltagun may not be fired on overwatch.

Limited Ammunition
A combi-meltagun only carries sufficient fuel for one shot. Use one of the melta counters provided, setting the counter aside when it has been used. If other models on the same side also carry combi-meltaguns, use the mission status board to keep track of which models have fired their melta shots.

Meltaguns and Doors
Meltaguns are highly effective at destroying doors. A Space Marine armed with a meltagun automatically destroys a door if they shoot it with the meltagun. No dice roll is necessary.

COMBI-PLASMAGUN
The bolter portion of a combi-plasmagun follows the normal bolter rules above.

The plasma portion of a combi-plasmagun fires a plasma 'bolt' that explodes on impact, generating the destructive heat of a small sun. This can be combined with a move or turn action, paying only the 1 or 2 APs for the move or turn action and firing the plasmagun 'for free' after the move or turn action has been completed. There is no maximum range and the plasmagun may target a model or door. When shooting at enemy models or doors within 12 squares, 2 dice may be rolled. When shooting at enemy models or doors more than 12 squares away, only 1D6 is rolled. If any of the dice result in a 4 or higher the target is destroyed and removed from play. The plasma portion of a combi-plasmagun may not be fired on overwatch.

Limited Ammunition
A combi-plasmagun only carries sufficient fuel for one shot. Use the plasma counter, setting the counter aside when it has been used. If other models on the same side also carry combi-plasmaguns, use the mission status board to keep track of which models have fired their plasmagun shots.

Gets Hot
Plasmaguns are prone to overheating and can prove as deadly to the wielder as the target. If the Space Marine player rolls a double 1 on the shooting dice while shooting a plasmagun, his plasmagun has overheated and exploded, killing the wielder.

#3
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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifPOWER WEAPONS (changes)

POWER AXE
Same as power fist.

POWER MAUL
Same as power fist.

POWER LANCE
Same as power fist. On any turn in which a Genestealer moves into the space immediately in front of the Terminator, the Terminator model may roll a second D6 in assault. In subsequent turns (assuming the Terminator survives) he wouldn't receive the bonus. In all other respects the power lance functions the same as the power fist.

POWER WEAPON, UNUSUAL
Same as power fist.

#4
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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifFORCE WEAPONS (changes)

FORCE SWORD
Same as power sword (i.e., parry), but with ability to channel psi points as Force Axe.

FORCE STAVE
Same as force axe.

FORCE WEAPON, UNUSUAL
Same as force axe.

#5
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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifGREY KNIGHTS WEAPONS (changes)

The most important rules for the Grey Knights weapons (the "Nemesis" portion) are irrelevant in regular Space Hulk because they are fighting against Genestealers, not daemons. So inclusion of the Grey Knights isn't a huge issue (except if we consider the fact that Grey Knights are psykers - that will be a separate discussion).

NEMESIS FORCE SWORD
Same as power sword.

NEMESIS FORCE HALBERD
Same as power fist.

NEMESIS DAEMON HAMMER
Same as thunder hammer.

NEMESIS FALCHIONS
Same as power sword.

NEMESIS WARDING STAVE
Same as power fist.

INCINERATOR
Same as heavy flamer.

PSYCANNON
Same as reaper autocannon.

PSILENCER
Same as assault cannon.

#6
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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifOTHER WEAPONS (changes)

AUXILIARY GRENADE LAUNCHER
The auxiliary grenade launcher is a tubular device that fires pre-primed and pre-loaded grenades. It is commonly affixed onto another weapon such as a bolter, combi-weapon, or even a power fist, but more esoteric shoulder-and wrist-mounted mounts have been employed in the past.

A model equipped with an auxiliary grenade launcher may fire the weapon at no additional cost when making any Move or Turn action, or for 1 AP if standing still. An auxiliary grenade launcher may not be fired when on Overwatch.

An auxiliary grenade launcher may target a door, model, or square up to 12 spaces away. This may be an empty square.

Area Effect
When a model or square is targeted, auxiliary grenade launchers affect entire map sections (except parts blocked by closed doors). When an auxiliary grenade launcher shoots at a square or model, place a grenade marker in the middle of the section the target occupies. Then roll a dice for each model or blip in the section including the target model; the piece is destroyed on a roll of 5 or higher. You can fire more than once at a section if desired.

Auxiliary Grenade Launchers and Doors
When a door is targeted, roll a dice; the door is destroyed on a roll of 4 or higher.


REAPER AUTOCANNON
Reaper autocannons are heavy weapons that can be used by Chaos Space Marine Terminators. It costs 1 AP for a Chaos Space Marine to fire a reaper autocannon. When firing in this way, there is no maximum range. To resolve the effects of the shooting roll 2 dice. If any dice score a 3 or higher the target is destroyed and removed from play.

A Chaos Space Marine can combine a move or turn action with firing a reaper autocannon, paying the normal 1 or 2 APs for the move or turn, and firing the reaper autocannon 'for free'. There is no sustained fire bonus when firing the reaper autocannon.

Reaper Autocannon Ammunition
A reaper autocannon is loaded with enough ammunition to fire ten times. Reaper autocannon ammunition is kept track of on the mission status display. At the start of the game place the reaper autocannon counter on the 10 space on the track. Each time the reaper autocannon is fired, including when it is fired on overwatch, the opposing player must move the counter one space down the track. Once all ten shots have been used the reaper autocannon may no longer shoot.

Reaper Autocannons and Overwatch
A reaper autocannon can be put into overwatch for the same AP cost as a storm bolter, entitling the reaper autocannon to fire at any eligible target as long as it has ammunition remaining. A reaper autocannon will not jam (they are built for rapid fire).

Reloading the Reaper Autocannon
Reaper autocannon ammunition is held in slide-in magazines mounted on the rear of the weapon. The Chaos Space Marine armed with the reaper autocannon carries a spare box of ammunition, and can reload it at a cost of 4 AP. Return the ammunition marker to the 10 space on the track, but flip it to the 'reloaded' side. Once these additional ten shots have been used, the reaper autocannon may not be reloaded again.

RELIC BLADE
Same as power fist.

SINGLE LIGHTNING CLAW
Same as twin lightning claw.

Edited by Brother Tyler, 14 September 2013 - 01:47 PM.
Auxiliary grenade launcher removed as it is not in the new codex.


#7
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifOTHER WEAPONS (clean)

REAPER AUTOCANNON
Reaper autocannons are heavy weapons that can be used by Chaos Space Marine Terminators. It costs 1 AP for a Chaos Space Marine to fire a reaper autocannon. When firing in this way, there is no maximum range. To resolve the effects of the shooting roll 2 dice. If any dice score a 3 or higher the target is destroyed and removed from play.

A Chaos Space Marine can combine a move or turn action with firing a reaper autocannon, paying the normal 1 or 2 APs for the move or turn, and firing the reaper autocannon 'for free'. There is no sustained fire bonus when firing the reaper autocannon.

Reaper Autocannon Ammunition
A reaper autocannon is loaded with enough ammunition to fire ten times. Reaper autocannon ammunition is kept track of on the mission status display. At the start of the game place the reaper autocannon counter on the 10 space on the track. Each time the reaper autocannon is fired, including when it is fired on overwatch, the opposing player must move the counter one space down the track. Once all ten shots have been used the reaper autocannon may no longer shoot.

Reaper Autocannons and Overwatch
A reaper autocannon can be put into overwatch for the same AP cost as a storm bolter, entitling the reaper autocannon to fire at any eligible target as long as it has ammunition remaining. A reaper autocannon will not jam (they are built for rapid fire).

Reloading the Reaper Autocannon
Reaper autocannon ammunition is held in slide-in magazines mounted on the rear of the weapon. The Chaos Space Marine armed with the reaper autocannon carries a spare box of ammunition, and can reload it at a cost of 4 AP. Return the ammunition marker to the 10 space on the track, but flip it to the 'reloaded' side. Once these additional ten shots have been used, the reaper autocannon may not be reloaded again.

RELIC BLADE
Same as power fist.

SINGLE LIGHTNING CLAW
Same as twin lightning claw.

#8
Brother Tyler

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gallery_26_6416_1703.gifSPACE WOLVES WEAPONS (changes)

WOLF CLAWS
Same as lightning claws

FROST BLADE
Same as power weapon

FROST AXE
Same as power axe

RUNIC WEAPON
Same as force weapon. If/when we look at Space Marine vs (Chaos) Space Marine battles and have to consider the psychic hood, those rules will apply to the runic weapon as well.

#9
One Mas Assault

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My thoughts on combi weapons. I’m trying to make combiweapons equal in power to stormbolters/combibolters so the player has a choice with their standard terminators to keep the all round decent combibolter or specialise some of their normal terminators. Consequently, I assume chaos terminators gain no additional close combat benefit against genestealers compared to loyalist and that chaos terminators still have independent heavy weapons.

Combimelta:
Normal firing - Rolls 1D6 when target is more than 6 squares away and 3D6 when at 6 squares or under.
Overwatch - rolls 1D6 between 4 to 12 squares away and 3D6 when at 3 squares or under.

Combiplasma:
Normal firing – Roll 3 D6 but then requires a turn to recharge during which only the bolter fires at 1D6. The combiplasma can always choose to not to fire the plasma weapon and only fire the bolter.
Overwatch firing – Roll 3D6 but then requires two turns to recharge during which only the bolter fires at 1D6. The combiplasma can always choose to not to fire the plasma weapon and only fire the bolter.

Combiflamer:
Normal firing - Fires at 1D6 at all times. Has two flamer rounds which may be fired at any time.
Overwatch firing – 1D6.

I think the jam dice needs reintroducing for overwatch when using combiweapons (roll an additional dice and on the roll of a 1 the weapon jams).

Justification of above decisions:
Combimelta only fire at 3 squares on overwatch because (to my mind) melta guns are not split second weapons like a normal rifle but probably take fraction of a second to release during which the genestealer has covered those three squares. Combiplasmas don’t have to recharge in 40K but my assumptions is that a turn of space hulk is probably a fraction of the time of a complete turn of 40K. Plasma weapons overheat if fired too much so the cooldown period represents the skipped turn and overwatch is generally taken to be firing more so more cool down. Finally, two flamer shots represent that a combiflamer is substantially smaller than half the size of a heavy flamer.

#10
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Good ideas there. Is the combiplasma's 3D6 on overwatch only for the first shot, or for a full turn's worth of overwatch fire?

#11
Brother Tyler

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Just so everyone understands, I've been fleshing these out (as the "bad" links in the initial post indicate). The individual sections are just invisible for now as the rules aren't quite ready for discussion (and I need to de-distract myself from the branding, which is superficial for now, to the rules, which are much more important :) ). When I've completed the initial set of rules, I'll turn the posts visible for discussion and revision.

#12
Brother Tyler

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As we lean into discussing/developing the expanded weapons rules, here is an explanation of the methodology we'll be using.

The starting points will be based on a straight translation of WH40K rules/mechanics (to hit, to wound, save) based on (Chaos) Space Marine Terminators versus Genestealers into the more streamlined Space Hulk mechanic of one or more D6. So where there will be three separate rolls of the dice in standard WH40K, there is only one roll of the dice in Space Hulk. Special WH40K rules for weapons will also be taken into account (i.e., melta). However, we also have to take into account certain mechanics that are peculiar to Space Hulk (i.e., the area effect and persistent effects of heavy flamers).

Since Indomitus will be kept to (Chaos) Terminators versus Genestealers, the weapons we include in this stage and the rules we create for them will be based on that pairing and (some of) the weapons available to those units. I doubt that we'll expand to include the cyclone missile launcher, for instance (though no final decision has been made on that - we'll probably defer to whether or not the CML works in Zone Mortalis to see if we might include it in Indomitus).

The only other targets that we might have to take into account are the "terrain" of a Space Hulk - doors, bulkheads, computer terminals, etc.

And don't expect to see the unique items of special characters brought into the mix (i.e., the Axe of Morkai, Heavenfall Blades). Indomitus will remain focused on generic units and generic items. Models of characters with nifty weapons will use the more generic version of those weapons (e.g., Lysander's special thunder hammer will function as a regular thunder hammer in Indomitus).

Again, players desiring a more nuanced system of rules that allow for significantly more flexibility really ought to look at Zone Mortalis as their way to play. Space Hulk, and by extension Indomitus, is a closed system with very streamlined rules. We are maintaining those two key elements of the game in the Indomitus expansion.

The intent is to maintain the Space Hulk concepts of simplicity, not to overcomplicate things.

While the first post has links to multiple replies for different "families" of weapons, I'll probably open one family at a time just to keep the discussion focused. Expect to see bolters and combi-weapons open soon - I just need to translate my handwritten notes into BBCode.

#13
Brother Tyler

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Okay, the initial rules for "bolter" weapons (combi-bolters and combi-weapons) have been posted. These are based on direct translation of WH40K rules into Space Hulk mechanics. Those of you familiar with the 1st edition Space Hulk rules will notice that the flamer performs worse now. This is because that is how the math works out under the flamer versus Genestealer statistics.

#14
Renoster

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So with the single shot functionality of combiflamer/plasma/melta weapons you are in fact left with nothing but a single bolter for all bar one of your shooting opportunities? Combis suck then, and Chaos Termies are meat?

#15
Brother Tyler

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Correction - the bolter only rolls 1D6 at targets over 12 squares away. At targets 12 squares or less, the bolter functions identically to a storm bolter (i.e., 2D6, including on Overwatch). Most shooting in the game takes place at 12 squares or less (since most shooting is on Overwatch).

In 1st edition, bolters only rolled 1D6 regardless of distance. I've added the second D6 based on standard WH40K rules and how tactical dreadnought armour grants the relentless universal special rule.

#16
Brother Tyler

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Okay, the rules for the bolter variants stand (for now).

I've turned the power weapon portion visible for discussion.

Analysis of the various power weapons reveals that they either have the same effect as a power fist (in the case of the power maul) or are worse than the power fist (in the case of the power axe, power lance, and unusual weapons). Based on the rules for a force axe (and ignoring the psi-point aspect of those weapons), a power axe should work identically to a power fist. By extension, the same would be applied to power lances and unusual power weapons.

So the only thing really up for discussion is whether or not to give a certain cinematic effect. The precedent for this is the parry ability that power swords confer. The power lance might benefit from a similar cinematic effect. This would have to be relatively insignificant since we can't inappropriately buff the weapon when its real effects are worse than a power fist.

What I was thinking about was representing the longer reach of the weapon. This might be applied in one of two ways.

Both alternatives require the Terminator to be moving forward in order to benefit from the cinematic effect.

Option 1 - A (Chaos) Space Marine Terminator equipped with a power lance can make a close assault on a target to his front for free if combined with a forward movement. The model only pays the 1 AP to move forward.

This is a very minor effect and doesn't confer any real advantage other than to potentially give you a chance to make an additional close assault. This would really only benefit the Terminator during the Space Marine turn or when you've forgotten to save points to put the model on Guard.

Option 2 - A (Chaos) Space Marine Terminator equipped with a power lance may make a close assault action on a Genestealer up to 2 spaces away to the Terminator's front (see diagram). The Genestealer rolls for close assault as normal, but if the Genestealer wins, the result of the close assault is a draw. This may not be combined with a Guard action and no other models may be in the space between the Terminator and the Genestealer.

This is a much better effect, though the ability for the Genestealer to turn the attack into a draw mitigates the effects somewhat.

I briefly considered some effect where the Terminator might get a +1 bonus in resolving the close assault, but that would have to be very limited in order to prevent the power lance from becoming as effective as a thunder hammer (which shouldn't happen).

I personally prefer the second option as that captures the cinematic quality of the power lance's longer reach. A weakness with this option, though, is that it doesn't draw upon any direct translation of standard WH40K weapon rules. The counter to this is that parry is unique to Space Hulk.

The two options I've presented above aren't the end-all-be-all, though. If anyone has any ideas, throw them into the discussion. Just keep in mind that we first have to determine if a cinematic quality/special rule for power lances is justified. If we think it can be justified, it will have to be relatively minor, not making the weapon too powerful. We're probably not going to see a lot of power lance wielding Terminators (other than Asterion Moloc) - we just want to make the models that might be so equipped interesting without being imbalanced.

#17
Renoster

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I agree lances wil be rare but should benefit from increased range. With this in mind should they then be penalised at normal close assault range? Once an attacker is inside your lance point you should be in deep trouble unless you also have a Storm Shield.

Edited by Renoster, 08 November 2012 - 04:55 PM.


#18
Brother Tyler

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I'm in a quandary about this. Doing the math, a power sword will kill a Genestealer 33% of the time (assuming the Terminator lives through the Genestealer's attacks), while a power fist will kill a Genestealer 42% of the time. Were these to be reduced to a D6, the power fist would kill on a 4+ (about 50%) and the power sword would kill on a 5+. However, both weapons have the same chance to kill a Genestealer under the normal Space Hulk rules (or rather, with the power fist serving as the basic attack type, there is no drawback to using the power sword).

By the same math, a power lance will kill a Genestealer 33% of the time on the charge and 25% of the time under normal circumstances. So by extension, the power lance on the charge is just as effective as a power sword, which means it's just as effective as a power fist. Reducing a D6 to percentages, a 25% chance is roughly between 5+ (33%) and 6+ (16%) - closer to 5+.

From a conservative streamlined gaming approach, I'm inclined to just make the power lance work like a power fist, but give it the cinematic "free" attack on the charge and/or the "ranged" attack. It's not an exact translation of the standard WH40K rules into Space Hulk mechanics, but it's faithful to the precedent established by the official Space Hulk rules.

I think the main issue is going to be in determining what is more "fair" for the power lance:
  • ability to attack a Genestealer 1 space away (i.e., one empty square between the Terminator and Genestealer) to the Terminator's front if the Terminator moves forward
  • "free" close assault action if the Terminator moves forward
  • both of the above
  • something else entirely
Note that I've turned the force weapon segment visible, too, since force weapons are equivalent to certain power weapons, the only difference being the basic "force" ability.

#19
Brother Tyler

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Another alternative [for the power lance] might be more in line with the buff the power sword has. Power swords allow for a model to Parry, which is defensive in nature. Perhaps the power lance ought to follow that pattern and offer a buff that is more defensive.

In this case, it might be something like allowing the model to roll a second D6 in assault when an enemy model moves into close assault to the model's front. In subsequent turns (assuming the Terminator survives) he wouldn't receive the bonus, making it much more in line with how a power lance works in regular WH40K.

Look for other weapons to be visible soon (just as soon as I find my notes).

+EDIT+

Other weapons are now visible and can be seen here.

Edited by Brother Tyler, 10 December 2012 - 10:48 AM.


#20
Brother Tyler

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I've added Space Wolves weapons here.

#21
KungFuTreachery

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Slight critque RE: combi flamers, I would just streamline it as the standard flamer damage roll - I realise on the tabletop they have a lower strength statistic, but for the purposes of usability they really need that guarenteed kill to offset the limited ammunition. The distinguishing factor for smaller flamers should be ammunition, mobility and possibly range, since fire is fire after all, and the heavy flamer in regular missions is enough of a dead weight with its high AP cost and lack of overwatch.



#22
Brother Tyler

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There are a couple of things to remember about combi-flamers, though.
 
First, combi-flamers are an optional weapon. No mission that requires the use of a heavy flamer will be reliant upon a model equipped with a combi-flamer (i.e., the heavy flamer model will also be in the force). Models armed with combi-flamers give a bit of redundancy in case the heavy flamer model is killed, but they are a little more desperate in that the flamer is less effective than the heavy flamer. Still, if you are playing a mission in which your heavy flamer model is killed, you might be able to pull a victory out with the combi-flamer.
 
Second, models equipped with combi-flamers also have a bolter. While they are less effective than combi-/storm bolters, they have much more flexibility.
 
The rules for combi-flamers are really only being included to allow players to use their standard WH40K captains/lords without being forced to use a standard model.

#23
Brother Tyler

Brother Tyler

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I've removed the auxiliary grenade launcher as it, unfortunately, does not appear in the latest Codex: Space Marines.

#24
Brother Tyler

Brother Tyler

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I've added the Grey Knights weapons here.

I've also updated the power lance rules here, though I think the wording needs to be tightened up (i.e., the special rule would only apply if the Genestealer moves towards the Terminator, not laterally. Perhaps we need to discuss that a bit (and I'll need to provide some pictures to show what I mean).

I'm also going to add the Deathwing weapons.

#25
Brother Tyler

Brother Tyler

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Return to INDEX

gallery_26_6416_1703.gifDEATHWING WEAPONS (changes)

FLAIL OF THE UNFORGIVEN
Same as power sword fist.

HALBERD OF CALIBAN
Same The Halberd of Caliban functions as both a power fist sword and a power lance.

MACE OF ABSOLUTION
Same as thunder hammer.

Edited by Brother Tyler, 20 December 2013 - 12:44 AM.





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