Aidoneus Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I was recently lucky enough to come into possession of a Helldrake model. I really like a lot of the individual pieces and details on the Helldrake, but the model as a whole doesn't really impress me. I feel like it needs... more. My idea is to buy an organic dragon model and kitbash two organic-mechanical hybrids. It's a pretty daunting project, but I think I can pull it off, with a little help from all of you lovely people. ;) Edit: Pictures start in Post 14. The first question is what dragon model to use. My immediate thought was Galrauch, First of the Chaos Dragons. I was also looking at Dark Elf Dreadlord on Black Dragon or a High Elf Lord on Dragon. My biggest concern is fit. I haven't seen a Helldrake assembled yet, and I've never seen one of those fantasy dragons assembled, so I really have no way to compare sizes. Can any of you tell me (or take an educated guess) as to how well either of those models would line up with a Helldrake? Also, can anyone recommend any other good dragon models that might work? Once that's figured out, I also want to hear people's opinions on how the kitbashing should go. How can I best swap out mechanical bits for organic bits to make it look like a smoothly-integrated cyborg-dragon? Since I'm making two models, keep in mind that the two will be, more or less, inverses of each other. That is, if one has an organic body and mechanical wings (just for example), the other would have a mechanical body and organic wings. I'm sure I'll have more questions as the project goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Galrauch is a Metal Model still, so I can't see it working out easily for conversions. I think the best of the one you found would be the Dark Elf one, though it looks too slender in my opinion. However, for that blend of barely-bound organics and sheer creepiness, may I recommend The Vampire Counts Zombie Dragon? The other possibility for a dragon model is the Forgeworld Carmine Dragon Without getting into size differences, I think the Zombie dragon would be the best. The bones could easily be made to look like a mechanical framework the daemonic flesh grew around. Plus, you could put a model inside the chest cavity to match the fluff about the pilot being absorbed by the Helldrake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunspear Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 TJWyrm has a good idea with the zombie dragon but if that is not you rcup of tea I think the best bet would be the high elf dragon, only because it has the basic same shape as the helldrake. But the dark eld dragon would look much more menacing I think. if I were you I would google the net to find pictures of the sprues to get a better idea of what you wiould be working with on each of the dragons, you may find that using bits of each one would work out better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I haven't seen a Helldrake assembled yet, and I've never seen one of those fantasy dragons assembled, so I really have no way to compare sizes. Can any of you tell me (or take an educated guess) as to how well either of those models would line up with a Helldrake? Also, can anyone recommend any other good dragon models that might work? http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4734/img1517qk.jpg Here you go , its rhougly the same size (without the wing span) of a rhino, or maybe more like between a rhino and a land raider. LIke said in the other posts, the Zombie dragon or the High Elf dragon, because their general shape is nearly the same as the heldrake, thus making the conversion process easier, while the DE DRagon looking good, still has this weird "straitgh up snake like bevhior" that the older dragons modeles of GW always bothered me. Galrauch is a failcost model, so for the price and quality of the resin, just forget it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The dragon of the high elf (and dark elf) are alot smaller than the Helldrake one in any aspect, but if you like huge gaps than you can use it. I would sugest removing some (or all like i did) of those spikes on the back of the dragon, this allows you to the head/neck in another position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Thanks for the feedback guys! Slayer, I appreciate the photo, but what I actually meant was I haven't seen one assembled in real life. Of course I've seen pictures. :rolleyes: Still, seeing it with stuff behind it does give me a little more information for size-comparisson purposes. I think you're all right in saying that Galrauch and the HE dragon are the best-posed, but too slender to match up well with the Heldrake. I love Galrauch's hide, but he's also pewter, and his tail and arms are pretty dinky (which are two things I really want to improve on my hybrid Heldrake). Finally, the HE dragon just doesn't seem... chaotic enough. Oh, and Slayer is right that the DE dragon has that upright pose that 1) doesn't match the Heldrake, and 2) just looks awkward. I think the big winner is the Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon. Or rather, the Terrorgheist! I first dismissed the zombie dragon for its upright pose, but when TJ mentioned it I looked again and noticed the Terrorgheist version. That's much better! It looks properly chaotic, and it's plastic to boot! My biggest concern now is size. The Terrorgheist looks smaller than the Helldrake (which is a pretty hefty model), so I'm trying to gauge how well they'll match up. Anyone have any way to compare the two? Any more suggestions you have would be much appreciated, before I begin such a daunting undertaking. That includes suggestions on which model to use, but also extends to how to best combine the models, what pose to put them in, what other bits to include, or anything else you feel like sharing. Edit: This is the only useful comparison picture I've found, but it looks to me like the Terrorgheist is pretty close to the right size. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Owning a ZOmbie dragon i can say that the zombie dragon is just a few inches less wider then the heldrake, if you use a heldrake kit, then you just have to put the shoulder plates on the shoulder of the Zombie dragon, and it will be the same size! Actually... Put the Shoulder plates on the shoulders, uses the Heldrake arms, because the Dragon/Terrorgheist doesn't have arms, use Defilers or Soulgrinder legs like i did for the wings, put a sculpted/converted model into the ribcage area or even one of those Grey Knights Possesed models, or even the Sistas Penitence engines pilotes!, use Killa Kans or Dreds from the ork range to add armour, or you might use a talos/Chronos kit for that and additional ccw weapons who looks cruel enough to be used on a chaos model. you could even use the Tendrils of the Talos to add a bit more, or even Spawns bits, like the eyes and stuff to fill the empty eye sockets of the Dragon. You can even make a 2 headed dragon with the Dragon/Terrorgheist kit, just like i did! http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/3831/img1283o.jpg http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/7647/img1280pf.jpg http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4535/img1276ui.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azekai Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 That is a crazy model Slayer!! What do you use it as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTL Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp306/The_poxes/578399_4682719111753_310879446_n_zpsc0e0dd47.jpg Maybe OP would like this? half and half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Thanks Slayer! It sounds like this should work, assuming I can pull it off of course. And you've definitely given me lots of ideas to consider once I pick up the Terrorgheist model. Also, compliments on two very nice models. I like what you did with the wings on the Heldrake, and the two-headed Terrogheist wielding that giant axe is just awesome! On that round base, I can only assume you're using it as some sort of daemon prince or greater daemon. Am I right? TL, that model is hilarious! I really like it. The facial expression is priceless, and I love the huge mechanical arms. What are you using it as? It looks a bit small for a Heldrake, so I'm gonna guess flying daemon prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well thanks, when the model came out, i intended to use it in my Deamon army as a count as Lord of Change, with the bicephale upgrade, one head would spew lightning (Bolt of Change) the other Chaos wind, the Scythe was to represent SOul Devourer rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTL Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Thanks Slayer! It sounds like this should work, assuming I can pull it off of course. And you've definitely given me lots of ideas to consider once I pick up the Terrorgheist model. Also, compliments on two very nice models. I like what you did with the wings on the Heldrake, and the two-headed Terrogheist wielding that giant axe is just awesome! On that round base, I can only assume you're using it as some sort of daemon prince or greater daemon. Am I right? TL, that model is hilarious! I really like it. The facial expression is priceless, and I love the huge mechanical arms. What are you using it as? It looks a bit small for a Heldrake, so I'm gonna guess flying daemon prince. OH its gonna be a heldrake. just using that smaller size for advantages for LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoros Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Thanks Slayer! It sounds like this should work, assuming I can pull it off of course. And you've definitely given me lots of ideas to consider once I pick up the Terrorgheist model. Also, compliments on two very nice models. I like what you did with the wings on the Heldrake, and the two-headed Terrogheist wielding that giant axe is just awesome! On that round base, I can only assume you're using it as some sort of daemon prince or greater daemon. Am I right? TL, that model is hilarious! I really like it. The facial expression is priceless, and I love the huge mechanical arms. What are you using it as? It looks a bit small for a Heldrake, so I'm gonna guess flying daemon prince. OH its gonna be a heldrake. just using that smaller size for advantages for LOS. Modelling for advantage! Nyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted December 26, 2012 Author Share Posted December 26, 2012 Well, I finally got my Zombie Dragon for x-mas, so the modeling project is on! It's still early stages, but things are looking promising. Here are the two WIP Heldrake models thus far. Any thoughts? http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1225122110_zpsc556067d.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1225122104_zps2400dd69.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Looking Good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 Those looks definatly promising!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted December 26, 2012 Author Share Posted December 26, 2012 Thanks for the support, guys! I have to admit, this is working out better than I expected. I was pretty nervous about how well the two models would fit together, but it's turning out great so far. I'm up to the point though where my skills are starting to be pushed beyond the limits of what I've done before. I'm using Green Stuff for basically the first time. I used some earlier to help keep magnets in my grey knights, but I've never actually used it to model areas that will be visible. However, I need it now to blend the mechanical and organic components together. Of particular note is the back of the actual Heldrake torso, where the shoulder pads are supposed to go. You can see below that I used the shoulder pads on the other model, so what I want to do is have the terrorgheist's vertebrae disappearing underneath some green stuff skin on the back of the heldrake torso. In the fifth picture below, you can see where I'm talking about. Anyone know any good Green Stuff tutorials for beginners that might help? http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1226121514_zps37482dbc.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1226121515_zps60272f7e.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1226121517_zps5f25e45c.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1226121519_zps4f874c55.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1226121527_zps616fdb06.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wargame insomniac Posted December 26, 2012 Share Posted December 26, 2012 This looks simply awesome. I absolutely love the idea of mixing organic and mechanical components for Daemon engines and this is best I have seen so far. Please take as many photos as you can from various angles. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Well in this case I am seriously tempted to try something similar. Did you say you used the Terrorgheist? Thanks very much James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastern barbarian Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 That looks absolutely amazing! I was thinking aboput doing something similar because I don't really like helldrake model at all. Now I can see it is doable and looks great. Is it essentiually one zombie dragon/ghaist model plus helldrake, giving you two helldrakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Very nice. I couldn´t bring myself to cut up my terrorgheist so far but this may actually encourage me to try it anyway once my my squads are finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 Thanks all! I'll admit that I was very nervous about potentially destroying two beautiful (and expensive) models. I was very fortunate that they fit together as well as they do. But yes, there was a whole lot of dry-fitting to see how things lined up before I cut or glued a single piece. I highly recommend the conversion for the results, but definitely only try it if you have some converting experience already. I don't claim to any great skill, and I am learning just how poor my putty-sculpting skills are, but I have done some other fairly extensive conversion projects before (for example, my Brass Scorpion). Also, to answer your questions about pieces, I'm using mainly one Heldrake and one Terrogheist (i.e. Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon) models. However, I also have a Maulerfiend kit waiting to be made, and I've stolen a few pieces from that for my dragons. The dragon with the terrogheist ribs has the forgefiend front legs and back leg shoulder pads. Meanwhile, the dragon with the heldrake torso has the maulerfiend tail whips (at the end of its tail, made from the heldrake neck), and maulerfiend front arms. (This does mean my maulerfiend will need a new set of arms, which will probably be made from Penitent Engine Legs and tyranid Crushing Claws) Here are the next batch of pictures. You can see green stuff starting to fill in the cracks, and on the one model's back. It's nothing impressive, but it should be adequate to serve its purpose. By the way, does anyone know a good method for making GW plastic malleable enough to bend it? Maybe a hair dryer or something like that? Just curious. :devil: http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1227121435_zpscd0f52ef.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1227121436_zpsd1b4ba7a.jpg http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w44/Aidoneus43/1227121437_zpsdba5f880.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Looking good! I'd go with a hot water soak method before the hair dryer, which seems too likely to destroy detail. What are you trying to bend? Also,are you planning to use a whole rhino as the base for that one model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 for big models like that adding a staff or better a scyth [for vector striking] both makes the unit look better and makes it more stable on the base . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Whelp, I'm convinced. Come tax return time, it'll be heldrake + zombie dragon time for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Whelp, I'm convinced. Come tax return time, it'll be heldrake + zombie dragon time for me. Heh, same here I guess, this is the best version of the drake I've seen to date... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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