Grey Knights in 6th Edition

[spartan249]

Chaos Space Marines up. I'm calling out to all GK players who have a bit of experience with C:CSM to add their experience and insights here so I can compile them here.

[Castellan Alaric]

i played chaos marines yesterday at 1000. i will make this very clear. chaos lords that have specific daemon weapons are an insane cc unit. handle with CARE. i lost 3 paladins, in one round, to an ap2 khorn daemon axe that got to swing before my hammers could take him out. psycannons and psybolts can deal with regular chaos marines like normal MEq tactics. in a game on saturday i played a different chaos player and I, i need to say again I, got the charge on a unit of zerkers and ended up killing none and losing my whole 5 man combat squad with a halberd justicar, a hammer and 3 swords. now, that's a little skewed cuz for some reason i thought their ws5 made me hit on 5s, so it wouldn't have been AS bad, but it's not good. shoot the stabby stuff, and shoot/stab the shooty stuff. i haven't faced any of their new toys yet, but they sound pretty nasty so i'd shot the crap outa them before engaging in close combat.

 

my 2 cents on chaos

[Zeratul29]

Well having to take the named hq of a specific god to unlack that special unit as troops i.e. take kharne to get berzerkers as troops seems to be a set back to me, or a lord with that mark. so i expect to see more normal squads and less berzerkers, tsons etc...

[Aethernitas]

Even worse than chaos-lords are DPs with artifact/daemon weapons. If you can't get the charge u better have a warding staff or some swords to mitigate the enormous dmg-output.

 

Heldrakes are your PAGKs certain doom. There is no reliable way to deny them their first turn of shooting and I guess they will more often then not come in pairs or even triples. Best thing one can do is play alot of TEQ or keep your MEQs either in transports or melees.

 

Terminator squads with sorcerers to buff them. Invisibilty is one of the worst (for us) and as they get up to 3 rolls its not that unlikely.

 

Forgefiends with triple ectoplasma. Three explosive templates of "melting your face" insta-gibbing. Not cool, man.

 

Abbaddon. Cheaper than Draigo and wiping the floor with him.

 

Ahriman. Played as a buffer mastery 4 is just insane...

 

Maulerfiends with tendrils are fast and can lock u in melee until they grinded u down (-2 attacks is quite bad if u only have one hammer per squad)

[Gentlemanloser]

Abbaddon. Cheaper than Draigo and wiping the floor with him.

 

A tiny part of me died when I compared Abbaddon to Draigo.

 

And to think of all the hate Draigo got! lol!

[Aethernitas]

I still hate Draigo. His crunch is okay but his fluff is :P . Actually... make this "his fluff is ;) insane" in a veeeery bad way...

 

If they want us to take his background seriously (not possible) there is no way in hell failbaddon gets AP2 and Draigo slays Great Daemons left and right with AP3 xD

[Shadow14_8]

I played 2000 pts in my first big game with Grey Knights vs Chaos. The player was the best player in our group and he was just starting to get the new rules down to be fair. The only thing new he brought was the helldrake without balefire which was a mistake because it did really nothing. He chose a gun line with lots of Havocs and and aegis line. He did bring a big unit of Khorne berserkers but I just blew them off the table. I had coteaz with 2 warbands and he nearly wiped out both of them but ultimely they survived with 1 or 2 guys left. We were playing kill points by the way. I ended up winning 7-3 and it was almost all shooting. Im not impressed with this new aegis line BS that seems to be all the rage it makes the agme less fun IMOP. As you all know Preseince (spelling?) won the day and will probably get nerfed sometime its to damn good.

[thade]

I use a Draigo counts-as...which is the Draigo model otherwise presented as a bad ass brother-captain. I really do not enjoy his shark-jumping fluff.

[spartan249]

Abaddon actually got worse then before empirically. He used to have S8 power weapon attacks at initiative with rerolls to wound. Now he has S5 Ap2 and he has to give up one point of AP to get S8 back.

[Gentlemanloser]

His Daemon Weapon no longer stops him attacking though.

[spartan249]

Ok, it seems my initial analysis of Chaos Space Marines is spot on. We'll see how the story unfolds as time goes on.

 

Eldar up. As always, insights and tricks are welcome if you have them.

[spartan249]

Tyranids and Sisters of Battle up.

 

... Did I miss anyone? I can't think of any more match-ups of note.

[jeffersonian000]

Quake Loop

This is a trick that requires that you have at least one warp quake up and ready to go.

If you ever run into the occasion that an opponent's deep striking unit mishaps and rolls a misplaced result, throw it into your warp quake. Nothing's stopping him from mishapping again, so do this until the unit either goes back into reserves (most likely) or is destroyed (bonus!). This trick is especially lethal to Daemons when you have Interceptors in your list, as you can cover the board with warp quake (provided you have first turn), then destroy his entire army turn 1. Tactics and strategy for the win.

 

There is no proof in the BRB that an infinite loop exists, yet there are enough examples that all rolls are final, meaning that you cannot force multiple mishaps on a single unit in a given turn. Placing a mishapped unit back in a Warp Quake zone will not cause a further mishap, as the arriving unit is being placed, not deep striking. This tactic only works by cheating, as it is not a legal move you can make.

 

SJ

[thraxdown]

Quake Loop

This is a trick that requires that you have at least one warp quake up and ready to go.

If you ever run into the occasion that an opponent's deep striking unit mishaps and rolls a misplaced result, throw it into your warp quake. Nothing's stopping him from mishapping again, so do this until the unit either goes back into reserves (most likely) or is destroyed (bonus!). This trick is especially lethal to Daemons when you have Interceptors in your list, as you can cover the board with warp quake (provided you have first turn), then destroy his entire army turn 1. Tactics and strategy for the win.

 

There is no proof in the BRB that an infinite loop exists, yet there are enough examples that all rolls are final, meaning that you cannot force multiple mishaps on a single unit in a given turn. Placing a mishapped unit back in a Warp Quake zone will not cause a further mishap, as the arriving unit is being placed, not deep striking. This tactic only works by cheating, as it is not a legal move you can make.

 

SJ

 

Seems cheap and if not explicitly against the rules I wouldn't do it anyway. I have placed a mishap unit within twelve of coteaz and taken my round of out of turn shooting. Does everyone think this is legitimate?

[spartan249]

You are actually correct. They are deployed in deep strike formation without scattering, not actually deep striking with no scatter. I'll take that part down when I can get to a computer.

[Castellan Alaric]

again, you thoughts on these armies are concise and to the point, providing good tactical thoughts at the same time. good show. i don't see tau up there, i think that might be the last army? well, technically black templars aren't up there either, but as they are my other army i can tell you there are plenty of ways to beat us, but beware or someone running boatloads of infantry (black tide). this has been my success with templars in 6th ed.

[spartan249]

Alright, Tau up, and for now, I should be done.

 

Any suggestions on what to add and what might be helpful for readers would be appreciated.

[spartan249]

Synergistic Tactics section added. Might have mistakes/stupid stuff in it, so letting me know about that stuff would be cool.

[Castellan Alaric]

while i didn't play the opponent with my grey knights, i did see a strategy that i hadn't before. at 2k points i played an eldar player with tau allies that were in a fortress of redemption. basically he fortuned and guided all of his models while shooting cover save ignoring ap3 blast templates all over the place. pretty lame. he had 3 broadsides in the top of the tower, which epically died from 1 snap-fired lascannon! :woot: ! yes, i rolled 3 6s in a row! it was epic. basically made me not really care that i lost lol total power gamer, and not my preferred enemy lol the mission totally hamstrung my short range heavy firepower too. i ran 3 vinicators, but going short end to short end was pretty far to go. didn't get a shot off. predators would have gone better.

 

ok, gk forum stuff. basically just get as close as you can and destroy everything before he can return fire, because dark reaper ap3 is crazy, coupled with the broadsides black-sun filters disallowing cover saves shenanigans. kinda nuts. spartan your henchman firing joker lascannons from turn 1 to blow up the fortress could work nicely. he literally turtled his whole force in it. he also had 4 units of jetbikes to use for last min contesting...kinda MEH B) what are your thoughts spartan? just curious what you'd have done. with gk of course as i don't want the inquisition booting me out :lol: next time i play him i would like to play gk, but he likes 2k points and even proxying it would be a stretch...with no bases big enough for a dreadknight proxy at all. we'll see. thanks in advance spartan

[spartan249]

Well, I did warn you that eldar could be very annoying as an earth army.

 

Basically, I would have used deep strike reserves to get my forces in, then either run to spread out or shoot the dark reapers right off the table. After that, it's a simple matter of assaulting the FoR and using frag grenades to force tons of cover-ignoring hits on those pathfinders and such. My henchmen would be firing at the broadsides, forcing saves and slowly getting rid of them: plasma cannons tend to do that to big models huddled up in fortifications.

 

If the stormravens survive the TL Icarus, they'll close in and try to collapse the weaponized parts of the FoR. That's about the best they can do.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

Fortress of Redemption is a giant piece of garbage. Ultra-static with no maneuver options PLUS the WORST thing is they have become super-predictable. That opponent has just told you exactly what they are doing and where they will be, before any other terrain goes on the table or deployment has even begun. During terrain-setup phase, you can cover the lanes of approach with Line of Sight denial terrain-- especially if you get something tall, you can cover up the Icarus Lascannon's field of view really well and then Ravens are completely safe. Deep Strikers and Outflankers just own this thing. Formations will prevent the Krak Artillery from ever doing more than 3 kills per turn or less.

 

I've played against a Fortress twice, and completely dominated both those games.

 

If I ever lose a game against someone playing with this thing, then I'll eat my hat.

[spartan249]

Hold up now, there are some merits to using the FoR. If you have the special rules to do it, you can have krakstorm barrages ignore cover and fire twice a turn. You can also use the predictability of the FoR to influence the terrain placement in predictable fashions. The FoR can turn out to be a great diversion and what I will call an aggressive prediction element (basically, you take something knowing how it will affect the way the OPFOR is thinking and plan your army's strategic goals and tactics with that in mind).

 

I wouldn't be so quick with making pledges that might hurt later on... lol.

[jeffersonian000]

Fortress of Redemption is a giant piece of garbage. Ultra-static with no maneuver options PLUS the WORST thing is they have become super-predictable. That opponent has just told you exactly what they are doing and where they will be, before any other terrain goes on the table or deployment has even begun. During terrain-setup phase, you can cover the lanes of approach with Line of Sight denial terrain-- especially if you get something tall, you can cover up the Icarus Lascannon's field of view really well and then Ravens are completely safe. Deep Strikers and Outflankers just own this thing. Formations will prevent the Krak Artillery from ever doing more than 3 kills per turn or less.

 

I've played against a Fortress twice, and completely dominated both those games.

 

If I ever lose a game against someone playing with this thing, then I'll eat my hat.

 

 

I got to ask: How do you block LoS to a flyer? Last I checked, zooming flyers count as above terrain which makes them impossible to hide, and flyers always arrive in zoom mode.

 

SJ

[Vash]

Fortress of Redemption is a giant piece of garbage. Ultra-static with no maneuver options PLUS the WORST thing is they have become super-predictable. That opponent has just told you exactly what they are doing and where they will be, before any other terrain goes on the table or deployment has even begun. During terrain-setup phase, you can cover the lanes of approach with Line of Sight denial terrain-- especially if you get something tall, you can cover up the Icarus Lascannon's field of view really well and then Ravens are completely safe. Deep Strikers and Outflankers just own this thing. Formations will prevent the Krak Artillery from ever doing more than 3 kills per turn or less.

 

I've played against a Fortress twice, and completely dominated both those games.

 

If I ever lose a game against someone playing with this thing, then I'll eat my hat.

 

 

I got to ask: How do you block LoS to a flyer? Last I checked, zooming flyers count as above terrain which makes them impossible to hide, and flyers always arrive in zoom mode.

 

SJ

I cant find anywhere in the Rulebook where it says you cant block line of sight to a flyer. Yes it counts on top of terrain if it decides to end its move ontop of terrain. But if its behind terrain? Why would it be on top of it???

Please give me a page reference where it says that flyers behind terrain counts as on top. This is very important for me, as I face flyers on a daily basis.

 

Flyers that have skimmer/hover mode can enter the battlefield in skimmer mode. They dont need to zoom. Page 81 bottom right corner "HOVER 'TYPE'" box.

You need to chose what mode you are entering the battle field with before you move onto the board.

[CitadelArmyGuy]

...If you have the special rules to do it, you can have krakstorm barrages ignore cover OR fire twice a turn (only Dark Reaper Exarch gives Fast Shot, he doesn't have Ignores Cover [a few other models can get that ability though]-- its cute, nice combo-- but then formations will still prevent massive damage. Really great for forcing spread patterns though, no arguments) You can also use the predictability of the FoR to influence the terrain placement in predictable fashions. The FoR can turn out to be a great diversion and what I will call an aggressive prediction element (basically, you take something knowing how it will affect the way the OPFOR is thinking and plan your army's strategic goals and tactics with that in mind).

 

I wouldn't be so quick with making pledges that might hurt later on... lol.

Fair assessments, but I still stand by my 'pledge' hahaha. The mission is rolled, then the Fortress must place first, then other terrain, then objectives. Where he puts the objectives combined with the Fortress will tell you his strategy even if you are deploying first. Basically you can analyze his list-- did he take lots of static-infantry? If so, he's probably occupying Fortress. If he has maneuver elements and transports, then he's pulling a feint and using the Fortress as bait.

 

If someone take a Fortress and doesn't man it (or minimally manning), that's a huge points sink you're not taking advantage of. The only army I can think of which benefits directly from the Fortress and will also have the Long Fire, Short Fire and mass cheap screens to babysit their investment is Imperial Guard. Basilisks hiding from Line of Sight behind, tons of screening infantry blocking deep strikers and then massed heavy weapons on the battlements. Basically IG can make the Fortress what it should be.

 

 

For Vash and jeffersonian--- all things use true line of sight. A Zooming Flyer can still hide from Line of Sight behind tall buildings. When people take a quadgun for their Aegis Defense Line, during the terrain placement phase you can plop a piece of solid terrain 3" away right in front of it, so long as you respect the 3" from all terrain pieces and the board-section density. For this reason alone, if I take a quadgun I make sure I place it in a 2x2 section that only has 'Density 1' so that nothing can be placed in front of it.