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1500pt: Was BA-IG, Now BA-SW Competitive List


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#1
CitadelArmyGuy

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I'm uncomfortable playing Blood Angels at 1500pts level. I feel BA struggles at this level unless you have a scheduled matchup and so you know ahead of time what opposing codex you are playing against. 1500pts for a pure-Blood Angels 'all comers' list seems fairly difficult, if not flatly impossible. 20 Assault Marines, Jump Priest and a Stormraven as a core (~770pts) does a great job with Light Infantry, Fast Infantry, Light Vehicles and Heavy Vehicles. But with the remaining half of your points, basically you can pick two more target sets to focus on (Link: Scroll Down to 'Balanced List Writing') and anything more than that just seems like a bridge too far. Mephiston helps a lot of course... a crutch for sure, but knowing you need a crutch doesn't help you walk better without it.

I've recently found a small 1500pt Local Tournament (16 Players) in Dallas that I'll be playing in on 17 Nov. Usually if I play this small (yes, I feel 1500pts is small) then I run my IG, but since this is a tiny $10 entry fee local tourny, I want to run my Blood Angels to see how they do. Plus then I can put batreps up on the forum Posted Image Not to mention no matter how good my IG may become, my Blood Angels are my first army I collected and you know what they say about 'first loves'... :lol: lolol

Trouble with playing this Tournament is although it is 'local'... I'm driving 3.5 hours to get to it. So I know literally ZERO zilch none nada about the Meta at this particular store ("Comic Asylum"... so if someone from Dallas knows this store, please advise!! haha).

1500pts
250: Mephiston
90: Sanguinary Priest- Axe, JP
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, Axe
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, LC
230: Stormraven- TLMM, TLAC, HBs
130: Vendetta
70: Aegis Defense Line- Comms Relay
70: Lord Commissar- No Gear
30: Platoon Command- No Gear
60: IG Squad- Autocannon
60: IG Squad- Autocannon
60: IG Squad- Autocannon

I'm still waiting to hear back from the organizer on what the missions will be; potentially just BRB missions but you never know.

So as we can see, this a conversion of my current 1750 list toned down (hopefully in the right ways) to play at 1500. The IG are for objective holding, screening, and fixing, in that order. Only 35 bodies feels really light, but makes the most of the mandatory HQ Commissar (maybe). The BA, Vendetta and ADL with Comms Relay are fairly set, so really I just need help arranging the 280pts of IG Infantry (although complete list overhauls are welcome too).

The Comms Relay makes sure my Flyers show up pronto. I can't afford to wait on them, not when I've got 25% of my points tied to them. Also, in the rare cases where Mephiston needs a ride in the Raven (ie versus GK), it really needs to show up Turn 2. Also, the list is currently written where if I need to, I can load Meph into the Raven and DoA all the Jump Marines if they don't combat squad, leading to as nearly a 'Null Deployment' as someone would dare to come in 6th. Go to Ground behind that Defense Line means I could pull it off as a calculated risk versus non-alphastrike opponents. Plus the Comms Relay can deploy anywhere and is undestroyable, it doesn't have to touch the Defense Line meaning I can stretch the ADL on the midfield, my favorite tactic to promote Assault Marine/Mephiston survival.

Back to those 280pts of IG, Option 2
80: Company Command- Officer of the Fleet
100: Veteran Squad- 2 PG
100: Veteran Squad- 2 PG

Only 25 bodies this time... but the Company Commander has two orders for calling onto the two Vet Squads, and Fleet Officer downgrades opponent's reserve roll to mess with Flyers' and Daemons' arrivals. These IG are much more expensive though, and even lower body count (plus I lose the Platoon Command riding in the Vendetta, hoping for end-game objective grab). Considering the secondary role I want is screens and tertiary role I want is fixes, I'm not sure if I prefer these as much. But fixing won't matter if I need an aggressive game since the mobility of Assault Marines w/Meph will leave them in the dust. I'm just not sure here.

280pts of IG, Option 3
80: Company Command- Officer of the Fleet
100: 10 Ratling Snipers
100: Veteran Squad- 3 Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher

Just showing different things which can form backfield presence that can still contribute usefully to the battle. Options 2 and 3 perform poorly in their duties to screen or fix; but arguably they contribute more to shooting than 140pts for BA Scout Snipers (and Officer of the Fleet is just a wrench in the machine versus "Air-Force" Lists and Chaos Daemons).

Option 4
70: Lord Commissar
30: Platoon Command
50: 10 IG
50: 10 IG
80: 20 Conscripts

Lord Commissar's Stubborn bubble means 2 squads of 20. Alphastrikers are going to be screened way the heck away from any important stuff.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 04 November 2012 - 06:23 PM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#2
spartan249

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Alright, so one question for you. Why Mephiston when you have the option for 2 JP Librarians? We both think force multiplier HQs are most effective, so I wonder why you go for the single beatstick HQ instead. I suppose he's useful for creating a diversion, but... you know.

So what exactly is wrong with composing a list emphasizing firepower over average assault capability and focusing your assault power in a shock unit? Perhaps my perspective has been tainted by GKs too much, but assault squads seem rather mediocre in terms of tactical flexibility, as besides assault, there isn't much they can do. I suppose Tactical Squads aren't much of an alternative, but... meh.

You ask me, Storm Ravens pale in comparison to Vendettas. Sure, the BA variant has Bloodstrikes which are generally more useful then Mindstrikes, but I'd still rate Vendettas higher due to their point efficiency.

As the list is now, I can't help but get the nagging feeling that neutralizing the BA section of the list first will basically result in a victorious game. In all probability, a tourney of this caliber probably won't produce the kind of players that can perform this in one or two turns, but you never know.

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QUOTE
They've got us surrounded? That simplifies the problem.

- General Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Ghost Knights, a C:GK Supplement under development.
Grey Knights in 6th Edition.

Iron Hands record: Unknown (at least 500 games thus far)
Ghost Knights record: 109W / 26D / 28L


#3
CitadelArmyGuy

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Welcome Spartan! I'm so glad you stopped by, experienced Grey Knight player advice is awesome. Grey Knights are a Blood Angel nemesis Codex, since your standard guys effortlessly beat us at our own game (melee) while easily outshooting us at the same time. /grumpy? LOL :(

Alright, so one question for you. Why Mephiston when you have the option for 2 JP Librarians? We both think force multiplier HQs are most effective, so I wonder why you go for the single beatstick HQ instead. I suppose he's useful for creating a diversion, but... you know.

I can give feedback on my selections no problem- it is always good to deliberately understand one's choices.

To begin, Shooting is King. That was true in 5th ed, and 6th Edition widened the gap. I suppose you can call me a romantic, perhaps I'm too in love with the Blood Angel Way of Battle-- but the fact is if you play Relic's computer game 'Space Marine'... the best bits are melee ;) I understand my refusal to conform to raw firepower lists relegates me to an upper mid-level player at the best; I'll never take home a GT or anything. But we all play this game for a reason, and I play to my love of Maneuver Warfare. Maneuver Warfare requires many many more layers of additional tactics and strategies in order to be successful, so I really get my kicks from playing out a game so skillfully that anyone staring at the raw list-matchups would think "theres no way..." ;) Also, Shooting-Maneuver Warfare is probably more successful, but perhaps I'm just a glutton for punishment? Because playing Melee-Maneuver Warfare successfully requires ultimate skill and precise decision-making.... because its so hard is probably why I love it. Great melee players are 'better' players than great shooting players, because their game is so much harder. The level of decisions they have to make are compounded three-fold more than a simple Shooting player's decisions. They'll still lose in equal-skill matchups of course, I understand that. I guess I just have to hope to be better than my opponents, despite the uphill battle. B)

For Mephiston, well-- I agree he costs the same as two Prescience Librarians. The reason I run Mephiston in a Tournament setting is when he runs in extremely close proximity to Assault Marines (attached but not attached, if you will) then I'd argue he is a quasi-Force Multiplier in his own special way. Firstly, the Mastery3 Psychic Hood. Also, he can trigger Overwatches, then allow the Assault Marines to follow him in. With Meph in a combat, you can 'metagame' the Challenge system excellently-- Sarge can absorb to let Meph kill Troops, or vice versa. Also, when I play Mephiston I always roll on 'Command' Warlord traits instead of 'Personal' like most people will. 5/6 abilities on the Command Warlord abilities will directly benefit 20 Assault Marines in-tow (granted Prescience Libby does that too). On top of those mentioned abilities, Mephiston is absolutely amazing versus Orks, CSM, Necrons, Vanilla SM, Tyranids and Tau. He's an ultimate Troop Hunter, with the mobility to avoid things which would try to Fix him. Mephiston can tackle and fix a large host of target sets; also, he requires a concentrated effort by the opponent to remove (generally requires much more effort than his 250pt worth to kill him-- so he's usually economically sound). He requires great skill to use correctly-- many believe incorrectly that Meph is a hammer. No, Meph is a scalpel and if you play him as such, he pays off huge dividends.

For the Assault Marines, well I agree they are generally very Tactically limited. However, they are extremely flexible Strategically. Descent of Angels is an amazing rule. A full-list trying to play it was generally a poor idea back in 5th, but one or two squads able to reliably arrive on Turn 2 with very safe deepstrike scatter sets the stage for excellent diversions or unexpected employment-- plus denial of information can be excellent, since they can never be sure exactly where you'll drop them. Their Jump Packs allow the speed to achieve concentration against their opponents-- and localized mass concentration is the golden rule of melee (for example, Force Multiplication in melee is really just a form of massing concentration).

All in all, the way I play Blood Angels generally keep 20 Assault Marines and a Jump Priest as a core; they never truly disappoint. In higher points levels they get even better since in certain lists I can afford up to 40 with 2 Priests-- at that point, I take 2 Support Librarians instead of Mephiston.

P.S. -- Mephiston helps out if I face the dreaded Epidemius-CSM-Tally List. Str10 with Force to ignore those PlagueMarines' 3+ FnP. :P

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 29 October 2012 - 10:02 AM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#4
Bartali

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I'm uncomfortable playing Blood Angels at 1500pts level. I feel BA struggles at this level unless you have a scheduled matchup and so you know ahead of time what opposing codex you are playing against. 1500pts for a pure-Blood Angels 'all comers' list seems fairly difficult, if not flatly impossible.


I think most codexes (expect perhaps IG) struggle with balancing a list at 1500pts with regards to dealing with light/medium/heavy infantry, transports/AV13+ and fliers. 40k is more or less a game of rock/paper/scissors at the moment, I'm hoping that the new 6th ed codexes will be able to pull off true all comers lists.

The problem with trying to fit everything in as you've done is that you end up not being any good at anything. I'd just embrace the rock/paper/scissors nature and stick to being strong in a few areas rather than poor at all.

#5
spartan249

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I do the exact same thing you do with assault squads with my strike squads, so I get that part. I guess I'm just skeptical as it doesn't seem to be as successful when you're not throwing 20 dice around on the drop.

I wasn't saying that mephiston is a horrendous choice, just wondering why him vs the librarians. I suppose I understand, not everyone has force weapons everywhere. It's not like he's huge either, so he can hide like a champion as he cover hops.

Well, alright then. I think you have explained yourself sufficiently, and I understand your sentiment. I just can't afford to do the same, as my local competition would steamroller me if I did (most of my more regular gaming buddies anyway, some people...).

8.jpg


QUOTE
They've got us surrounded? That simplifies the problem.

- General Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Ghost Knights, a C:GK Supplement under development.
Grey Knights in 6th Edition.

Iron Hands record: Unknown (at least 500 games thus far)
Ghost Knights record: 109W / 26D / 28L


#6
spartan249

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Yay, internet loves me and double posted again... not cool.

Edited by spartan249, 29 October 2012 - 03:27 PM.

8.jpg


QUOTE
They've got us surrounded? That simplifies the problem.

- General Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Ghost Knights, a C:GK Supplement under development.
Grey Knights in 6th Edition.

Iron Hands record: Unknown (at least 500 games thus far)
Ghost Knights record: 109W / 26D / 28L


#7
CitadelArmyGuy

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Thinking things over a bit more. Woke up a touch grumpy, and then continuing to think too much about this problem is getting me down. The easy decision would be to just 'quit' and take an IG force. They can dominate 1500pt level and I've got all the models to do the job.

But I won't give up yet. I have many theories concerning Maneuver Warfare and I want to use this small Tourny as a 'Proof of Concept.' If I get beat badly, well then lessons learned. Plus, I am sorely due for a face-smashing; I've rarely lost since 6th ed came out. Sadly my current win/loss tagged on my signature is grossly inflated from playing against newbies, which are all I have within 100miles of where I live (not exaggerating- Fort Worth is 150 miles away). I'll have VASSAL working by the end of this week though, I've nearly figured out how it functions-- so then I can resume getting beaten.

The best lessons you learn are from when you lose. It builds character and sharpens your decision making.

So, with all that in mind I retooled the list a touch--- it plays objective games terribly but my hope is Mephiston does his job and absorbs much incoming firepower to keep the Assault Marines alive. Is this a good list? I don't know I just need to take a break and walk away from 1500pts for a bit, then come back and look at the whole thing again.

1500pts
250: Mephiston
90: Sanguinary Priest- Axe, JP
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, Axe
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, Axe
230: Stormraven- TLMM, TLAC, HBs
260: 2 Vendettas
70: Aegis Defense Line- Comms Relay
80: Company Command- 2 PG
70: Veteran Squad- No Gear

IG Infantry loaded in Vendettas, except versus an alphastrike opponent they'd deploy on-table to screen. I feel that it works well against an opposing Flyer list-- the 2 Vendettas being in one squadron is not optimal though, they can hammer down one enemy flyer per turn max. I would write the list as IG with BA allied but then it's not B&C forum legal. I would take two Stormravens in a heartbeat but I only own one.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 29 October 2012 - 07:13 PM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#8
spartan249

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I guess it's about the best you can do with BA at the moment. I'd say BA took a huge hit in 6th, which makes them at about equal footing with dark eldar and tau. Not that those two are horrible, just that they're a bit specialized, which breeds in weakness as a natural consequence. Nothing some competent play and a bit of luck can't compensate for, IMO.

8.jpg


QUOTE
They've got us surrounded? That simplifies the problem.

- General Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC

Ghost Knights, a C:GK Supplement under development.
Grey Knights in 6th Edition.

Iron Hands record: Unknown (at least 500 games thus far)
Ghost Knights record: 109W / 26D / 28L


#9
Zynk Kaladin

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The best lessons you learn are from when you lose. It builds character and sharpens your decision making.


At least on the table top, defeat is an humbling investment towards victory. It puts hair on your chest... but not too much else you start howling at the moon. :tu:

I don't really have much to offer for advice, but your second list looks pretty solid enough to me. As you know, it's impossible to predict every army combination out there so it'll come down to playing the objective game rather than smashing your opponent's army. Your list might change depending on what the organizer says about the missions, though.

I do have one question just out of curiosity. Why did you decide to change the LC RAS sergeant with an axe? You already have a priest with an axe, so why not stick him in with the LC squad? Is it because of Mephiston's combat potential against troops that you feel another ap3 power weapon is unnecessary?

Perhaps we can get another VASSAL challenge on the BA forum again? Unfortunately, I missed the last one.

#10
CitadelArmyGuy

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The problem with trying to fit everything in as you've done is that you end up not being any good at anything. I'd just embrace the rock/paper/scissors nature and stick to being strong in a few areas rather than poor at all.

Excellent words, I pretty much thought the same thing but gave it the 'ol college try to see if I could pull off an all-rounder. I just need to give up the ghost and commit to my decisions.

I'll tell you right now that I won't be bothered to even attempt playing against Daemons. So many concessions need to be made just to make sure you are ready for them, and then you aren't really good at fighting anything else. At least for Blood Angels, IMO. IG or GK can do it, but that's why they are Tier-1 codicies.

If someone shows up with Flamer-Screamer spam, I'll look them in the eye and shake my head. Enjoy that winner's prize, because everyone here hates you.

At least on the table top, defeat is an humbling investment towards victory. It puts hair on your chest... but not too much else you start howling at the moon. :P HAHA That one made me laugh!!!

I do have one question just out of curiosity. Why did you decide to change the LC RAS sergeant with an axe? You already have a priest with an axe, so why not stick him in with the LC squad? Is it because of Mephiston's combat potential against troops that you feel another ap3 power weapon is unnecessary?

Yeh totally a typo, I run my Assault Sergeants half with Axes, half with Claws (and an Axe if odd number).

So with my comment to Bartali, I figure I'll just play the tournament straight-up. If I face a Rock to my Scissors then I will just have to play my utmost best strategically and tactically, but I'm at peace with getting 'Rocked'. Can't win 'em all (well... not if you're BA at 1500pts). So with that said, I'll be specializing in defeating Light/Medium Infantry and Flyers. Pretty much any other Target Set will give me the business, so I'll just have to play my best.

1500pts
250: Mephiston
170: Furioso- Frag Cannon, HF
90: Sanguinary Priest- Axe, JP
215: 10 Assault Marines- 1 MG, Axe
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, LC
230: Stormraven- TLMM, TLAC, HBs
130: Vendetta
70: Aegis Defense Line- Comms Relay
50: Company Command- No Gear
70: Veteran Squad- No Gear

So I have two cheap Screens, I have a diversion drop-pod, I have solid Flyers and my ground force is mobile. If I need to play 'survival' then two Troops can load in Flyers. I can still suicide-melta DoA one Combat squad.

Necron Flyer-spam would be a tight game but I feel I could defeat it (estimate ~6 Croissants at 1500pts). I feel I can easily defeat a Drop-Pod list. Gunlines or MSU mech will involve me going to ground behind a mid-field defense line while the Flyers pop vehicles- I'm less afraid of shooting lists than I am of armies which can out-melee Mephiston. If screens aren't needed, then the Company Command can babysit the comms-relay from cover. I had to drop a meltagun to make the Comms Relay fit-- the MG is tactically better but the Relay is an amazing piece of strategic gear.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 30 October 2012 - 10:26 AM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#11
liberate_tutame

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I'd actually drop the powerfist in exchange for meltabombs and 2 meltaguns. You are losing one attack with the meltabombs (two on the charge) against MC's and vehicles, possibly gaining a little for challenges though with the I4, but the tactical flexibility of having the two meltas far outweighs the slight upgrade from meltabombs to powerfist.
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#12
Bartali

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To be honest I'd just play pure BA at 1500. The vehicles and the amount of points invested into HQs is killing the amount of troops and if you're using rulebook, or worse table quarter style missions, you're really going to struggle. Especially when you're talking about suiciding some of them.

Regardless of if your list is balanced or rock/paper/scissors, 6th is mostly about having more scoring/denying units left at the end of the game than your opponent, whilst not giving up the soft secondary objectives. There's maybe even something to be said for fitting in as many Assault Marines as you can into 1500....

#13
Morticon

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CAG- go with BA!!! Dont take your Guard :unsure:

CAG- im a huge fan of 1500 BA. I think we do really well here.

Also, Im with you 100% of the way (as you know) regarding Mephy.
In the majority of tournaments where you dont know the meta, or the players he's the best option.

Id strongly consider the Magna grapple over the Heavy flamer.
And keep the melta.
The ability to pump out a melta shot, a S8, AP2 shot, and then the 2 frag templates allows you much more flexibility when taking on the enemy- especially when considering what to kill for first blood.

I dont really like the naked HQ and VET, but points are limited, and the only thing you could feasibly drop is the comm relay, and I realise that you want it for those birds and possibly the jumpers.

My concerns about this list are that your back line will be largely undefended in most games.
Your army is aggressively styled, and will only work supported, with Meph and the 2x10 squads moving up to engage the enemy.

If you need to send troops back to watch home plate, or worse, have to lay back and play counter, waiting for your fire support from the air, you risk not getting to up into the enemy enough.
Barteli is spot on in this.
I would strongly consider nixing the allied contingent and focus on some more forward pressure.
Your pod worries me. I LOVE the frag-dread pod, I dont like just having 1 pod. One pod, even a furioso is too easily dealt with. I'm a 3 or nothing kinda person, but I dont see that being an option without really restructuring your list. Then again, theres been a move from melta towards plasma, so it may be more workable.

Id assume that deployment would mean that one 10man was always in reserve along with the vets in the detta?

How have your play tests gone? And why dont you try it on Vassal? ;)
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#14
TheHarrower

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Alright, so one question for you. Why Mephiston when you have the option for 2 JP Librarians? We both think force multiplier HQs are most effective, so I wonder why you go for the single beatstick HQ instead. I suppose he's useful for creating a diversion, but... you know.


A lot of people balk at Mephiston at 1500 points and say he's too expensive. I couldn't disagree more. At lower point games (especially 1500), most opponents don't have more than 1 unit that can deal with him. He'll draw a lot more fire than usual which will help get those Assault squads were they need to go. And of course he's a wrecking ball in combat.

So with my comment to Bartali, I figure I'll just play the tournament straight-up. If I face a Rock to my Scissors then I will just have to play my utmost best strategically and tactically, but I'm at peace with getting 'Rocked'. Can't win 'em all (well... not if you're BA at 1500pts).


I've played tons of 1500 point games, and I can't find an all comer list. I just tailor as best as I can to what I think will be at the tournament and then I hope for the best.

1500pts
250: Mephiston
170: Furioso- Frag Cannon, HF
90: Sanguinary Priest- Axe, JP
215: 10 Assault Marines- 1 MG, Axe
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, LC
230: Stormraven- TLMM, TLAC, HBs
130: Vendetta
70: Aegis Defense Line- Comms Relay
50: Company Command- No Gear
70: Veteran Squad- No Gear


While I love this set up with the Furioso, you are pretty much giving up First Blood. The tradeoff there is the distraction and reduced fire from your opponent for a turn. While I find that can work out, more often than not, my games run really close and I NEED that point. I'd rather go Devastator squad with 4 Missile Launchers. If you end up going against Grey Knights with a bucket load of Psycannons (and let's face it, they are pretty popular and you probably will) the Devastators will be invaluable. With the points left over, I would add a Flamer to the other Assault Squad just in case you end up playing horde.

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#15
CitadelArmyGuy

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TO got back to me, this is what he said:

"We have been using rules from the new rulebook as everyone is still learning new stuff every game. If we do custom scenarios, it will be a surprise for everyone. We do not use paint, comp, or background in our scoring....straight up table top game play. We do not have any house rules or FAQs, but we do use the FAQ's provided on the GW website naturally."

-------------------------

@liberate_tutame: Haha nice, I was in the process of editing the PF into an Axe and MG when you commented. I hadn't thought of 2 MGs and a MB-- having a naked Sarge could be really useful paired with Mephiston in the same combat. I think I'll go for that, the 2 MG and MB. The LC on the other squad will get changed to an Axe then.

@Bartali: If I had two Ravens, I would absolutely play pure BA. As it is I am starting to get the feeling this alliance isn't working out too well at this points level, as evidenced by my inability to find something I like in this thead haha. I wouldn't suicide any Assault Marines unless no other options existed. As it stands, I do have several lists that are pure-BA (there's about eight lists I haven't even posted).

If I play pure-BA (and I really might), I'd run something like this:

---Version 1---
250: Mephiston
125: Librarian- JP, Axe
90: Sanguinary Priest- Axe, JP
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, Axe
225: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, LC
175: 10 Tactical Marines- Flamer, PC
180: 3 Land Speeders- 6 HB
230: Stormraven- TLMM, TLAC, HBs



@Morticon: Hahaha no worries, I will take BA. I really want to post new OODA batreps because I've gotten massive positive feedback from across much of the B&C from the one that I did post. I am super-curious to see why you like BA in 6th Ed at 1500pts. I tend to lean away from Razorbacks, although I do have 6 magnetized 'rhino hulls' which I can play any form of Predator or Razor onto.

I love the Frag-dread too. Wasn't a big fan until I actually used it. I am split on whether to keep him or take the 3 Land Speeders dual-HBs (175pts vs 180pts). If I take a Prescience Lib then I think the Speeders are better, no Lib then the Furioso is better. I don't think I can fit both and still like the resulting list. Great point on the MG+Grapple vs the HF; it would really help earning that important First Blood since it seems we're playing BRB missions. I don't fear only having 1 pod at all-- there will always be a weaker flank, or an exposed opportunity, or something worth diverting. Also, AV13 is better and better since as you've mentioned, meta for meltaguns is getting lower in favor of PG. I've played a solo pod many times and I always manage to get good results from one, whether its full of DC or a Dread. I only own one pod but I can borrow as many from a friend as I'd need.

ALSO since we're playing BRB missions, a backfield presence certainly helps, but isn't always required. I know, its crazy but generally I will place my objectives in midfield since that's where I'm headed anyway. Its generally prudent for backfield placement since gunline and MSU opponents can't get there easily, but I've confused quite a few opponents when I place my objectives in their deployment zone. Of course, this principle is exactly why you recommend dropping the IG entirely and focusing on forward pressure--- which I am beginning to agree with.

As for Vassal, I've got it figured out now. I was expecting the program to do more of the work, I realize now you just have to chat-text your actions to each other and both players need all the codicies and rulebooks required with them as they play. Basically you 'call out' what you're rolling for and then use the dice-function. As for movement, I am still pretty inept at moving models via Vassal, but I am down for a game anytime now so long as you're willing to have patience while I fumble through :) I'm busy Friday and Saturday (playing 40k IRL) but otherwise I'm available anyday.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 03 November 2012 - 12:30 PM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#16
knife&fork

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I am split on whether to keep him or take the 3 Land Speeders dual-HBs (175pts vs 180pts). If I take a Prescience Lib then I think the Speeders are better, no Lib then the Furioso is better.


OK, I'll bite. Why dual HB on the speeders?
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#17
CitadelArmyGuy

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I am split on whether to keep him or take the 3 Land Speeders dual-HBs (175pts vs 180pts). If I take a Prescience Lib then I think the Speeders are better, no Lib then the Furioso is better.

OK, I'll bite. Why dual HB on the speeders?

Mostly because of the combo with Prescience. Force Multiplication delivers higher observed results in direct correlation to the amount of dice it affects.

In this case, 18 shots from 36" with 48" total threat range is an effective tool. With Prescience they deal 10.667 wounds onto Toughness 4, and 13.33 wounds onto T3, which is important for screen-clearing when you're using Assault Marines. They deal 2.667 glances onto AV11 Tanks. They deal 1.833 glances/pens onto AV10 Flyers (Orks/DE/Rear Armor of any)

They can deep-strike, so if you really really needed to you can lose Prescience but gain alpha-strike. Also you can deep-strike behind an enemy Flyer to hit against rear-AV 10. Probably won't work, but chances are not bad to place at least one glance (and a lucky pen could change the game).

Basically 10pts per HB shot (18 shots for 180). No cheaper way to obtain HB shots than that although Devs are close at 12 for 130. Also, they are very fast and can form charge-screens to protect your Jump Marines if you really need them to-- 30" raw movement potential.

Now I won't lie-- they perform much much better in an MSU Razorback list from target saturations. The TLPG-LC Razors provide quality fire while the Speeders provide quantity fire. BA tend to prefer Baals for this, much more durable, but the damage output is not comparable.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 02 November 2012 - 10:36 AM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#18
liberate_tutame

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A little off-topic but the Fragnought is probably my favourite unit in our codex, but I think you're right, if you are going to go drop-pod, you should probably go for three, and you should probably throw a DC with bolters into one. The way I used to run the drop-pods in fifth was with two fragnoughts and a tactical squad with plasma and combi-plasma in the other. It was one of the few ways to make tacticals worthwhile.

Your pure BA 1500 point army looks pretty great to me, and I think you are right about the Landspeeders, for piling on shooting wounds, nothing else really compares in our codex. I was also wondering how you might expand that pure BA list:
At 1750?
250: Mephiston
125: Librarian- JP, Axe
90: Sanguinary Priest- Axe, JP
210: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG,
215: 10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, MB
120: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Razorback Tl-HF
120: 5 Assault Marines, Flamer, Razorback Tl-HF
100: 2 MM Attack Bikes
100: 2 MM Attack Bikes
180: 3 Land Speeders- 6 HB
230: Stormraven- TLMM, TLAC, HBs
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#19
Morticon

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Post up some more of your pure BA lists! Lets see what you're thinking.
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#20
CitadelArmyGuy

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Post up some more of your pure BA lists! Lets see what you're thinking.

OK well here's what's on my mind:

----Version 2----- ("Version 1" is posted earlier in reply to Bartali)
Librarian- JP, Axe
2 Sanguinary Priests- JPs, Axes
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, Axe
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, Axe, MB
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, LC, MB
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, LC, MB
Stormraven- TLAC/TLMM/HB
Defence Line


Version 2 is pretty bland because its not Hybrid-- its pure Fast Infantry Assault. It is fast and mostly troops so it plays the objective game well. Horrid against Heavy Infantry, Shock Units, Heroic Characters, Monstrous Creatures--- the usual Blood Angel weaknesses. Although it does tear Light Infantry and Light Vehicles a new one. All in all its just too bland for me, it just seems uninspired. 43 Assault Marines would be a bear for some lists to handle though-- just not IG, GK, Daemons and some SW builds... who are all tournament favorites.

A quick word to expound upon Daemons-- they are winning GTs no doubt, but generally I observe they are not a popular Army. If people play them, they are that player's second or third army-- I haven't met anyone who started playing 40k as a Daemon Player. So for Local Tournys people tend to bring their favorite codex (like I'm doing! :cuss ), rather than the brokenest 'elite cheese' they can think of. Local means you are still going to play with people you'll see again-- a GT is totally impersonal so who cares if they judge you for your list-cheese. So that is my thoughts on Daemons-- if I come across Flamer/Screamer spam, then I'll play my best against the inevitable-- I'm not emotional about it. Big Events draw the Big Lists, but this is just a little 16-player affair.

-----Version 3-----
Mephiston
Sanguinary Priest- JP, Axe, MB
10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, Axe
10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, LC
5 Sniper Scouts
7 Death Company- PF, Droppod
3 MM Attack Bikes
Stormraven- TLAC/TLMM/HB
Defence Line


This list gives me a cheap homebase squatter, a large diversion maker from DC and MM Attackbikes to drop tanks. With Meph and DC causing Turn 2 'ignore or die' fire priorities, the 20 Assault Marines should actually do a good job at surviving to see assault. Also that Raven is simply autoinclude-- I get SUCH good results from him. If I win this tourny, my store-credit will go towards another one (and this one will earn getting painted! haha awweee he's still just based-black).

-----Version 4-----
Lord of Death (again)
Librarian- JP, Axe
Sanguinary Priest- JP, Axe
Furioso- Grapple, MG, FragCan, Pod
10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, Axe
10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, LC
3 Land Speeder- 6 HB
Stormraven- same loadout as always


Version 4 is the fusion list-- basically just Version 1 but drops Tacticals to take the Furioso. It has no defence line which is my "I can't get tabled by a leafblower list" insurance policy. The 20 Assault Marines receive the full-blown Force Multiplication: Priest, Lib and Mephiston. They should cut their way through any opposing light or medium infantry easily, except GK maybe (stupid armywide force weapons...). The Speeders help deal pre-melee softening wounds, and they will generally be dead by the time I need Prescience for melee (lol) so I'm getting full benefit from my Librarian. Furioso provides small alpha and big diversion.

Version 5... well version 5 is more of an idea rather than something to post because it uses Razorback MSU with Baals, Land Speeders and Raven. I can't get it to fit the way I want it though; I can't fit the podded-Furioso who I feel would be great on a table that's aready so much AV. It hurts that I have no experience at all playing MSU in 6th Edition-- I played the heck out of it in 5th just like veryone else did, but I haven't touched it since 6th came out.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 04 November 2012 - 02:07 PM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#21
Bartali

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Version 2: ("Version 1" is posted earlier in reply to Bartali)
Librarian- JP, Axe
2 Sanguinary Priests- JPs, Axes
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, Axe
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, Axe, MB
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, LC, MB
10 Assault Marines- 2MG, LC, MB
Stormraven- TLAC/TLMM/HB
Defence Line


I think this is a good starting point, but as you say, it's a bit bland. I think your other lists go too much in the opposite direction and add in too much diversity which kills the troops.

I more or less started out with the above, and added other stuff for some diversity whilst trying to keep the number of troops up.

Librarian w/ TDA, SS, Shield, Rage
2x Sang Priests w/ Jump Packs, Axes
5x TH/SS Terminators
Land Raider Redeemer w/ Multi-Melta
2x 10 ASM w/ Flamersx2, Meltabombs
1x 10 ASM w/ Meltagunsx2, Meltabombs
5x Scouts w/ 5x Sniper Rifles

Anyhoo - Main advice. Some of these lists are wildly different and as your tournament is only a couple of weeks away, i'd just use the list you have the most experience with.

#22
CitadelArmyGuy

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Finally getting some good-level playtesting in! One of the best opponent's in my area (SW) had been away for training the past 6 weeks, but he's back so we played a game last night. For the game, I am still casting about for trying new things so I went with something I just recently posted about. I will be doing up a full-blown battle-report later in the week because it was a great game, but for a touch of instant gratification here is what I playtested:

Librarian- JP, Axe
Sanguinary Priest- JP, Axe, MB
10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, Axe
10 Assault Marines- 2 MG, MB
Stormraven- TLAC/TLMM/HB
Vendetta
Company Command- Officer of the Fleet
10 Veterans- No Gear
Leman Russ- Punisher Cannon, 3 HB, Stubber, Pask
Defence Line- Comms Relay


Basically this is a list I already had which swaps Mephiston for the "Leman Russ of Fanboy Joy"... so really more of a playtest simply to try out Mr. Dakka-Pask (32 Shots at 24" of course), but there turned out to be some additional insights into the game that makes it worth a battle report IMO. As it stands, it would have played better with Mephiston instead-- but it was against pure-SW so of course why wouldn't he be better? Lol.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 04 November 2012 - 02:07 PM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#23
liberate_tutame

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I want to like your idea of using Pask in a Punisher Leman Russ, but in your list the poor tank is going to be toast before it ever gets within that precious 24" to unload it's firepower. Av14 front armour or not, it'll be targeted by every heavy weapon in those first two turns. I think it best (dare I say only useful) use is against the Daemons heavy list where you can blow away a screamer flamer unit i n the turn they drop. I think you might be better served by another Raven, although from reading your posts you don't have one, and I'd go back to your Landspeeders. Maybe there is an option in the Imperial Guard Codex to get cheap non-vehicle mass fire, I'm not sure where the BA Codex can do that apart from vehicles.
We know what we are, but not what we may be.

#24
CitadelArmyGuy

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...in your list the poor tank is going to be toast before it ever gets within that precious 24" to unload it's firepower. Av14 front armour or not, it'll be targeted by every heavy weapon in those first two turns. I think it best (dare I say only useful) use is against the Daemons heavy list where you can blow away a screamer flamer unit in the turn they drop.

LOL wait for the batrep, I made a great great many mistakes in the game which I am furious at myself about. One mistake was overestimating AV14 in the face of missile launcher spam.

The tank itself has a 30" threat range, since being a Heavy Vehicle it moves 6" but always counts as stationary for shooting. Useful for games where the opponent must come to you (odd-number objectives where you have more) and also "Relic." He is weak where you must go to the enemy (odd number objectives where you have less). A lot depends on the opponent's list-- most armies rely on melta to handle AV14, with nothing to take it at range. If they have drop-melta, then I'd use both cheapo IG squads plus impassable terrain or a board edge to screen him, then blow away the offenders when they arrive. All these employment discussions are moot however; I feel I got a good look at him and his strength/weaknesses after using him on the table. All in all I won't be taking him, and actually I won't be taking IG allies at all-----I've decided to go pure-BA this time around.

Since it's BRB missions, I'm going to need a backfield babysitting unit. I've really noticed this from the last three games I've played where the match was directly decided from cheap stuff sitting on objs-- right now I'm feeling a Tactical Squad, although Scouts do it cheaper, I feel the better versatility and survivability of the Tacs is better. Although the Scouts do have infiltrate/outflank... hmm. I do think I need two cheap squatters (probably just a 10-man for combat squad)-- because in a 4 or 5 obj game, I'll be squatting on at least two while I have to 'go get' one more. Either a 180pt Tactical or a 140pt Scouts is what I'm feeling. Tacticals can contribute more, which is obviously why they cost more. Snipers seem like they create opportunity through Precision Shots, but they are relegated to self-imposed immobility which I certainly do NOT like (I really hate stuff that has no maneuver). Plus if it seems the opponent has truly poor-anti flyer then I'm much more comfortable putting Tacticals in the Raven (Purge the Alien, misc other situations maybe) rather than Scouts. Not saying I'd ever do that-- just good to think of all options available.

Oh and Mephiston is in; literally every game I've played without him I've ended up needing him and his unique set of skills.
So it looks like my next game tomorrow I'll be playing Version 1, and from now on will work solely on tweaking Version 1. So basically I have two slots of equal-ish value that I need to figure out how to hammer down Version 1 ------>

175pt Tacticals .....vs..... 190pt Scouts with Defense Line
180pt Speeders .....vs..... 175pt Podded Furioso
Everything else in Version 1 is staying.

For the Troops Discussion, if I get a table that has no Line of Sight denial terrain then I'll really need the defense line for the 2+ Cover Save (next best thing) to hold my home objs. But the tourny very well just might use the terrain-placement phase as part of the game, which would be simply awesomeness... its just the TO wasn't clear about whether they'd have preset terrain or not, but best assumption would be that they will just to be safe.

For the specialist unit, I'm leaning towards the Speeders since I'm taking a Prescience Lib, but I just can't pull the trigger.

--------------------
Pros of Speeders "Pre-melee Softeners": Weapon Range, Mobility, Screening, Higher Damage Output, Prescience Efficiency, Scores in Scouring, Always get at least one-turn of good use no matter what

Cons of Speeders: Fragile, Worth a VP in Scouring, Vulnerable to surrendering First Blood (sometimes necessitating Deep Striking, thus losing Prescience Efficiency)

Pros of Furioso "Backfield Marauder": General Survivability (comparatively), Earn First Blood vs Tank, Alphastrike on Heavy Weapons Teams or Obj Squatters (big one), Cause Diversion, Fix Medium/Light Infantry, Some lists unprepared and have no easy Solution, adds Target Saturation with Mephiston.

Cons of Furioso: No Prescience Efficiency, Pod surrenders First Blood, May potentially do nothing useful then die (enemy list dependent)
--------------------

Basically it feels like the Furioso is the Strategic choice, but is also a bigger potential Risk. The Speeders will always at least contribute usefully before dying, which the Furioso cannot promise. Community thoughts?

Oh and thanks Bartali :tu: this really is a great piece of advice:

Anyhoo - Main advice. Some of these lists are wildly different and as your tournament is only a couple of weeks away, i'd just use the list you have the most experience with.

Luckily I've got plenty of Blood Angels experience of all types, so while the lists do look crazy different the only new thing to adapt to is 6th Edition. But your advice is sound and hence why I made my decision to stick with Version 1, just trying the 4 options mentioned.

Edited by CitadelArmyGuy, 03 November 2012 - 10:10 AM.

Active Duty United States Army, Alumni of The Citadel Military College. 6th Edition: 54 Win - 6 Tie - 5 Loss // 7th Edition: 10 Win - 0 Tie - 0 Loss

 

Nine Principles of Warfare: Objective, Offensive, Mass, Economy of Force, Maneuver, Unity of Command, Security, Surprise, Simplicity. In tabletop wargaming, 8 of 9 apply.

Military terminology: A tarpit is a Fix. A bubblewrap is a Screen. Deathstars are Shock Units. Baiting units is an Ambush. Buffing is Force Multiplication. A pre-emptive decision is a Spoiling Action. Utilizing maneuver to influence your opponent's maneuver is Diversion. Special tricks that execute in 1-2 turns are Tactics, contrasted against your over-arching approach to winning a match is Strategy.
 
I play Semi-Competitive because after being a true believer and disciple of Competitiveness for years, I personally feel that 6th Edition made a mockery of game balance... but I've never had more fun than I do now! I still play nails-hard and I play to Win, but nevermore at the expense of fun for my opponent. Play what you like, or you won't like to play


#25
spartan249

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While I find myself cringing as I type, I'd go with the speeders. I'd rather see attack bikes take the spotlight, but speeders can work too, I suppose. I don't put much stock in dreads of any type, not even most of the BA dreads (double blood talons can do quite a number though, they garner some respect from me). Reason why I wouldn't choose a Dread is that they are unable to climb multi-level ruins, most likely negating the most important role you seem to be assigning it. If you were playing against me, the Furioso's target would be my Henchmen, who would subsequently either shoot you as soon as you drop with IBEY or be immune to your assault because they're in an elevated position. Granted, the venue may preclude the presence of any multi-level ruins, but I have found that to be a very rare occurence.

Furthermore, I'd go for the Tac squad myself. Cover ignoring capability is already dangerous enough. Scouts suffer the most because most of the flamers that matter are AP4, creating situations where first blood could be surrendered because of the scouts. Of course, neither are very well off if any Heldrakes show up, but I'm sure you'll find a way to deal with it.

In either case, adding in some precautions against that BS daemon stuff could be wise, given that you're going in blind. Better safe then sorry, I say (then again, I suppose it's easy for a GK player to say... I don't know what I would change in your shoes).

Edited by spartan249, 03 November 2012 - 10:14 AM.

8.jpg


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