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Lone Wolves


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11 replies to this topic

#1
Stormbrow II

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I've been recommended to wander over here from the SW section.

The SW FAQ says:

Page 29 – Lone Wolves, A Glorious Death.
Replace the last two sentences with: “Furthermore, in missions that award Victory Points for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed, a Lone Wolf does not concede a Victory Point if he dies in battle. Instead, to represent his failure to meet a spectacular end, a Lone Wolf awards a Victory Point in such a mission if he survives until the end of the game!”

Now its obvious that this applies in Purge the Alien but my question is does it affect First Blood in all missions?

The BRB says:
Page 122 - First Blood.
The first unit, of any kind, to be removed as a casualty during the game is worth 1 Victory Point to the opposing player at the end of the game.

It goes on to state in Purge the Alien its worth 2 and Heavy and Fast are worth 2 in the missions where they are scoring.

From the above, my understanding is the answer in the FAQ means the Lone Wolf does not give away any Victory points at all if he's dead so does he give away First Blood, seeing as that is a VP for destroying the first unit. The reason I ask is because there is no distinction made between First Blood Victory Points and any other, so it would appear that by RAW he does not surrender a Victory Point. Fwiw, I am only looking for a response based upon RAW. Thanks.

Have I read this right?
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Brother Stormbrow you must have left quite the impression among your peers. So many would offer up advice to contribute to your opponent!

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#2
Legatus

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Victory points can be awarded for different achievements. In the six missions presented on the pages 126-131 of the rulebook, the following achievements will award victory points, depending on the mission:

  • controlling a primary objective
  • completely destroying an enemy unit
  • slaying the enemy warlord
  • destroying the first unit of the game
  • having any number of scoring units in the enemy deployment zone at the end of the game

Every destroyed unit will grant one victory point. But some units will further grant additional victory points, for example if the unit was a warlord, if the unit was the first killed unit of the game, or possibly if the mission had victory conditions that called for the extermination of certain unit types. The Lone Wolf special rule specifically denies the opponent the victory point(s) for destroying it as a unit. However, other circumstantial victory points would still be awarded. If the Lone Wolf was the first unit to die, he would award that first blood victory point, since he is the first kill of the game. The enemy will just receive 1 victory point instead of 2, since he will not be getting the normal victory point for having deytroyed the Lone Wolf unit. If a lone wolf somehow was the armie's warlord (though I think that is not possible, but perhaps think of another HQ model that may count as a Warlord but may not award victory points for being killed), then the opponent would also get 1 victory point for having killed the enemy warlord, even if he would still not get the standard victory point for having killed a Lone Wolf.

#3
tvih

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I'd say First Blood still gives a point. At least in non-kill point missions, because "in missions that award Victory Points for each enemy unit" clearly refers to kill point missions, because other missions don't give a VP for each and every unit and thus the sentence doesn't apply. As for FB in a KP mission? Well... I'm inclined to say yes, since it doesn't rule out FB specifically, only a single VP which is the one you'd normally get for wiping out a unit.

#4
Stormbrow II

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In the six missions presented on the pages 126-131 of the rulebook, the following achievements will award victory points, depending on the mission:

Cool.

clearly refers to kill point missions

If you could give a reference for this I'd appreciate it a lot. Afaik, there is no such distinction made in the SW FAQ, or the main rulebook.

If the Lone Wolf was the first unit to die, he would award that first blood victory point, since he is the first kill of the game.

Seems fine, until you drag the FAQ into it. It says that he doesn't give up a VP if he dies without qualification - there's no distinction between a First Blood VP and a Purge the Alien VP. Either way, all missions award a VP for killing a unit entirely (whether its 1st for First Blood or at all in Purge), as you have listed in your response.

I'm also aware of the fact that this might be a case of Codex > Rulebook, as this comes from a Codex FAQ.

If a lone wolf somehow was the armie's warlord (though I think that is not possible, but perhaps think of another HQ model that may count as a Warlord but may not award victory points for being killed)

I don't think there is another one.

Thanks for the responses so far.
QUOTE (Spazmonkey:)
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QUOTE (TiguriusX) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Brother Stormbrow you must have left quite the impression among your peers. So many would offer up advice to contribute to your opponent!

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#5
tvih

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If you could give a reference for this I'd appreciate it a lot. Afaik, there is no such distinction made in the SW FAQ, or the main rulebook.

The reference was already provided by you, and I re-quoted it in my first reply: "in missions that award Victory Points for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed". As it says, missions in which killing a unit gives VPs (each enemy unit meaning that every unit killed is a point, rather just the Warlord for example). Like Purge the Alien. By comparison for example Crusade does not give VPs for killing units, so the sentence would not apply to Crusade.

#6
Toasterfree

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im along the lines that LW give no VP of any kind. advanced>basic.
 
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#7
Gentlemanloser

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I feel this is quite clear, cut and dry. Legatus nailed it spot on.

in missions that award Victory Points for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed


completely destroying an enemy unit


Is a seperate and different condition to;

destroying the first unit of the game


The FAQ makes the Lone Wolf's 'A Glorious Death' apply to the first condition, but does nothing for the second.
QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#8
Legatus

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But the Space Wolves FaQ is indeed woefully lacking. Instead of

"in missions that award Victory Points for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed, a Lone Wolf does not concede a Victory Point if he dies in battle."

The FaQ should say

"in missions that award Victory Points for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed, a Lone Wolf does not concede the Victory Point for having destroyed an enemy unit if he dies in battle."

to be more precise.

#9
Arikel

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First blood does not give a vp because you killed AN enemy unit. It gives a victory point because you were the player to kill the first unit in the game. Not affected at all by the lone wolf rule, because it does not matter what unit is killed first. As long as you are the player who made the first kill you get the victory point.

edit: to expound a bit further, the lone wolf wolf rule only applies in games where each enemy unit that is killed gives a victory point, and would not apply against first blood which is a separate mission objective in all cases.

Edited by Arikel, 11 November 2012 - 09:06 PM.


#10
Spacefrisian

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What arikel said.
There are no Deamons in 40k

#11
Morollan

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Pretty much what Arikel said. The SW FAQ says “Furthermore, in missions that award Victory Points for each enemy unit that has been completely destroyed, a Lone Wolf does not concede a Victory Point if he dies in battle. Instead, to represent his failure to meet a spectacular end, a Lone Wolf awards a Victory Point in such a mission if he survives until the end of the game!” (emphasis mine). First Blood does not meet this requirement alone as it only applies to the first unit destroyed, not each unit.

Of the 6 Eternal War missions, I would have to say that it would only apply to Purge the Alien. All other missions are objective based and only award kill points for units under certain circumstances (eg Heavy Support in Big Guns...).

#12
Stormbrow II

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I meant to respond to this one sooner. Thanks for the answers lads. It looks like Arikel has put this one to bed. Cheers.
QUOTE (Spazmonkey:)
hahahah so much lolz.... yo sir are full of Win..

QUOTE (TiguriusX) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Brother Stormbrow you must have left quite the impression among your peers. So many would offer up advice to contribute to your opponent!

TBGAPC
TBGAPC: Lucius the Eternal Ideas