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The Guilliman Heresy

Alternate Heresy Guilliman Heresy

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#351
Conn Eremon

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There could be one of each. Perhaps the dark brown is a unifying element tying distinctive groups together. Perhaps two Chapters share in a single duty, perhaps permanently and perhaps temporarily.

 

As for what's too much or not, it ultimately comes down to whether or not their legion is still recognizable. The example I gave previously was mostly in a variant color, but the display of the standard colors and badge meant that it was still recognizable at a glance.


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#352
GuillimanHeretic

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What if a daemon-hunting unit was brown and gold, but with a grey helmet and grey markings? And with the IH symbol and fire motifs on their armor as well? They wouldn't be mistaken for Salamanders since they're not green or black.

 

I dunno, if you guys aren't keen, I'll just use it for my "version" of the IH. Maybe I'll decide to just use it on a specific daemonhunter unit, and just partially, and keep the rest slate grey/gold. Or... a way of marking Legionnaires with daemonhunter training/honors, kind of like Terminator Honors.

 

Regarding weapons that would be unique to the GH, is there anything similar to Baze Malbus' gun from Rogue One? A las-weapon or energy weapon similar to a Volkite, but with a chunky ammo feed like a heavy bolter?


Edited by GuillimanHeretic, 23 August 2017 - 09:17 AM.

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#353
Conn Eremon

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Finally going through the timeline edits Olis made, my thoughts below.

 

 

 

869.M30 - Compliance of Molech - The Knight World of Molech, site of a portal to the warp, is conquered by a multi-Legion force and a garrison of great size is stationed there. Both the Ultramarines and the Blood Angels are amongst this garrison.

 

I think just the hint would work best here.

 

 

 

964.M30 - Submission at Monarchia - In an attempt to stamp out the deification of the Emperor by the citizens of the Imperium, an example is made of those most vocal and influential: Lorgar and his Word Bearers Legion. With dramatic flair, the Ultramarines Legion was tasked with destroying the capitol cities of the world of Monarchia, site of the Word Bearers' greatest success in their early days. With the Ultramarines and their Primarch, Roboute Guilliman, watching, Lorgar and his Word Bearers were brought to their knees by the sheer force of the Emperor's will in the dust and ash and pledged to forswear their religious devotion to him as a God. The Word Bearers have taken their pledge to heart by all accounts. Following a Legion-wide Pilgrimage to re-discover themselves and their place in the Imperium, Lorgar takes a personal journey that leads him back to Terra and the Emperor. What is said in those hallowed halls none know, but once Lorgar emerged he declared his Legion would once more be the Heralds of the Imperial Truth, never again the Bearers of an ill-conceived Word. Though there were minor problems in getting his Legion sons to follow this new path, including the death of the first chaplain and the disappearance of Kor Phaeron. In a decades' time the Custodes tasked with watching over them following Monarchia report to the Emperor that the Imperial Heralds are as pure and loyal to the Imperial Truth as they ever were to their former Word.

 

 

Super minor nitpick here, but I actually think it reads better as "Bearers of an ill-conceived Word." It's not more accurate or anything like that, I just kinda like the way it sounds. The other change was just to break up a run-on.

 

 

 

976.M30 - Occupation of Dwell - Brought into compliance and garrisoned by the Ultramarines, Dwell was settled by the natives of Molech during the Dark Age of Technology. The information repositories there would remain undisturbed for another eighty years before historians from the five hundred worlds would chance upon data that would be of great interest to the Primarch of the Thirteenth.

 

Nice.

 

 

 

981.M30 - The Final Piece -The Alpha Legion Legion is reunited with their gene-father(s), Alpharius and Omegon. The final Primarch(s) has been found. 

 

We can discuss this over messages.

 

 

 

006.M31 - The Warmaster Proclamation - Following his sons' designs on Horus' old title, the Emperor declares there shall be no new Warmaster. Both the Lion and Warrior King react badly to this, vocally objecting to the edict and temporarily withdrawing their sons from the wider Great Crusade. Though they do still take part and prosecute their own campaigns, much of their contributions in the years to come would be in their own self-interests.
 
012.M31 - Failure of the Codex Astartes - With the Codex Astartes complete, Roboute Guilliman puts forth his magnum opus to his brothers and his father. It is almost universally dismissed as a whole, even though it includes doctrines and tactics codified by many of his brothers. With his great work rejected, Guilliman returns to Macragge and broods. In the years to come, he focuses wholly upon his Legion and the five hundred worlds, turning his sons into the largest Legion and his domains into a fortress.

 

These are supposed to be the same event, though I'd move it a little later still, like maybe 018.M31. Guilliman has more time to work and perfect the Codex, it's no longer a document needed right away to stave off a secondary war among the loyalists.

 

I'm working off of memory here, but if I recall correctly Guilliman sends a copy to his brother Primarchs and the Emperor himself, sort of like his resume/CV to officially apply for the Warmaster title following contention with the Lion. Many of his brothers reject it, but it's when the Emperor finally splits his attention away from his project, reviews the current situation, and then proclaims that there shall be no new Warmaster.

 

Pushing it back to the 18th year gives Guilliman time to perfect his Codex as he originally intended it, to disperse it across the galaxy, and for the Emperor to then make his appearance.

 

Plus, it decreases the time leading up to the Heresy to 32 years, which is more in keeping with heretical path the canon Word Bearers took leading up to the Heresy.

 

 

 

050.M31 - MkVI 'Aquila' Power Armour - As further research and experimentation leads to design advances and armour improvement, a new suit of power armour is trialled with the Sons of Horus and the Dark Angels. Designated the 'Aquila' suit, it is characterised by the Imperial Aquila adorning the breast plate - an embellishment approved of by the Emperor himself. 

Nothing wrong with this, but you just know that hurt the Third Legion and their father.

 

 

 

052.M31 - Schadenhold Besieged - Amongst the many outposts and strongholds under assault by the Ultramarines since the on set of the Heresy, Schadenhold remained in loyalist hands for two years. Prior to the outbreak of open hostilities, the Ultramarine Tetrarch Tauro Nicodemus met with the commander of the Iron Warriors, Warsmith Barabas Dantioch, hoping to sway him to the traitor cause by preying on his sense of abandonment from the main Fourth Legion force and Perturabo. Dantioch refused, displaying commendable loyalty, and narrowly fails in killing the Tetrarch. Conducting a system-wide siege, replete with extensive armoured engagements and a vast supporting contingent from the Imperial Army, Tetrarch Nicodemus drives the Iron Warriors from Greater Damantyne back to Lesser Damantyne and the Schadenhold Fortress itself. Even with reinforcements from the 14th Grand Battalion under Warsmith Krendl, the Iron Warriors can only fight a delaying action. In a last, desperate gambit Dantioch and his remaining men teleport aboard Nicodemus' ship with an entropic charge, the resulting explosion destroys the ship and a portion of the fleet. Dantioch himself is mortally wounded, though recovered by loyalist elements. The Schadenhold Fortress, now in the hands of the Ultramarines and their mortal allies, is destroyed by charges set and ignited by Krendl himself.

 

052.M31 - The Loss of Kangba Marwu - Following the imprisonment of the majority of the Crusader Host the previous year, a breakout attempt was made by several members to get to the landing fields beyond the Imperial Palace. This, however, ended spectacularly badly as the Salamanders representative and former Chief Librarian Umojen became possessed while still within and the prison complex was then destroyed upon the orders of Rogal Dorn. No members of the Crusader Host were known to have survived. Several high value prisoners from the Unification Wars also perished. The mountain of Rakaposhi slumps more than a kilometre from it's overall height.

 

I like it.

 

 

 

054.M31 - Decimation of Armageddon (Maze of Blood Incident) - The Blood Angels and War Hounds square off on a desolated world familiar to both Legions from earlier in the Great Crusade. In the blasted craters and ruins of this planet, the Khornate Blood Angels, led by the dark Sanguinius, assaulted Angron and his War Hounds. Aided by the daemonic, the Blood Angels proved very effective at fighting in the twisted ash wastes, killing Angron in what will be called the Maze of Blood Incident, spurring an eternal hatred against Sanguinius and his black-hearted sons.

 

Some thoughts on how to replace this.

 

054.M31 - Maze of Blood Incident - The Blood Angels and War Hounds square off on the desolate parade ground of long-abandoned Ullanor. Blasting craters into the continent-sized granite ground and shattering palatial stands into dusty ruins, the heretical Ninth Legion, led by the blood-mad Sanguinius, assaulted their cousins of the Twelfth Legion and the hardened warrior Angron. Aided by the daemonic, the Blood Angels proved very effective at fighting in ruins and extensive flat lands, killing Angron in what will be called the Maze of Blood Incident, spurring an eternal hatred against Sanguinius and his black-hearted sons.

 

The events of the Heresy curtailed many of the privileges enjoyed by the Iterators, however an unknown Iterator had managed to make planetfall amidst the battle of Ullanor. Keeping herself high above the bloodshed by remaining upon the roof of the colossal citadel where the Emperor and many of his sons had crowned Horus the Warmaster, she had an admirable view of the chaos and destruction below.

 

One particular pict-capture, widespread in those years but long since supressed, showed the primarchs Angron and Sanguinius plummeting from the very same citadel. The pict showed Angron's back, one mighty fist reared back while the other clutched at Sanguinius's neck. Sanguinius, the fallen angel, fought to hold onto his blade with a fierce snarl upon his face. Far below them, the light-grey earth was broken by an intricate network of rivers of blood.

 

 

That's it for now!


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#354
Olis

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Edits and revisions have been made, brother. No problems here. happy.png
 

 

006.M31 - The Warmaster Proclamation - Following his sons' designs on Horus' old title, the Emperor declares there shall be no new Warmaster. Both the Lion and Warrior King react badly to this, vocally objecting to the edict and temporarily withdrawing their sons from the wider Great Crusade. Though they do still take part and prosecute their own campaigns, much of their contributions in the years to come would be in their own self-interests.
 
012.M31 - Failure of the Codex Astartes - With the Codex Astartes complete, Roboute Guilliman puts forth his magnum opus to his brothers and his father. It is almost universally dismissed as a whole, even though it includes doctrines and tactics codified by many of his brothers. With his great work rejected, Guilliman returns to Macragge and broods. In the years to come, he focuses wholly upon his Legion and the five hundred worlds, turning his sons into the largest Legion and his domains into a fortress.

 
These are supposed to be the same event, though I'd move it a little later still, like maybe 018.M31. Guilliman has more time to work and perfect the Codex, it's no longer a document needed right away to stave off a secondary war among the loyalists.
 
I'm working off of memory here, but if I recall correctly Guilliman sends a copy to his brother Primarchs and the Emperor himself, sort of like his resume/CV to officially apply for the Warmaster title following contention with the Lion. Many of his brothers reject it, but it's when the Emperor finally splits his attention away from his project, reviews the current situation, and then proclaims that there shall be no new Warmaster.
 
Pushing it back to the 18th year gives Guilliman time to perfect his Codex as he originally intended it, to disperse it across the galaxy, and for the Emperor to then make his appearance.
 
Plus, it decreases the time leading up to the Heresy to 32 years, which is more in keeping with heretical path the canon Word Bearers took leading up to the Heresy.

Sounds fair. I've pushed both ahead to 018.M31 and nudged the Warmaster Proclamation blurb after the Codex blurb. How does that read to you? It makes sense to me, given the codex is Guilliman's, as you put it, resume for the Warmaster position.
 

 

050.M31 - MkVI 'Aquila' Power Armour - As further research and experimentation leads to design advances and armour improvement, a new suit of power armour is trialled with the Sons of Horus and the Dark Angels. Designated the 'Aquila' suit, it is characterised by the Imperial Aquila adorning the breast plate - an embellishment approved of by the Emperor himself. 

Nothing wrong with this, but you just know that hurt the Third Legion and their father.

 
Perhaps this is something that'll add to their character. Food for thought, I think, given that their own aquila is the 'Palatine' version, rather than the 'Imperial' aquila found on canon Auila armour. 

 

Edit - I might change the "landing fields" in the Kangba Marwu segment for the Lion's Gate, seeing as it is an actual space port. Thoughts?


Edited by Olis, 25 August 2017 - 08:57 PM.

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#355
Conn Eremon

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The Lion's Gate is one of the major battles of the canon Siege, isn't it? I don't remember enough about the Crusader Host to remember if they're in close proximity or not, but sure, I guess.

 

A heavily damaged port, plus the replacement of the Fists with the Iron Warriors, could be our way of weakening Terra's defenses like the canon Word Bearers and Alpha Legion did. Or at least one of our ways, we can maybe do more.

 

 

 

054.M31 - The Lion and the Warrior King - Following the Ork invasion at Calth, taking the Ultramarines by surprise and destroying an entire fleet nearing completion at its shipyards, El'Jonson sways many of Guilliman's followers into attempting to end the war in one decisive thrust. With the favour of the Dark Gods upon him, the Lion instigates a series of internecine skirmishes among the rebels. The fighting eventually dissipates and the Lion proceeds to lead an assault on Terra, with the intention of slaying the Emperor and breaking the Loyalists.

 

This is fine on its own, but this is something we need to expand upon at some point. The Orks sucker punch Guilliman, and the Lion takes advantage. That's the final piece in a series are struggling to take control of the Heresy. The Lion wins, for now.

 

 

 

062.M31 - Final Voyage of the Reaper's Blade - The Death Guard, led by Mortarion, are the first to enter Ultramar, ahead of other Imperial forces. Though they initially met with success, they are caught in the opening squalls of the Ruinstorm. As a strange warpborne plague tore through their fleets, the Death Guard are all but unable to defend against this mysterious pathogen. Worse still, those killed are animated by its dark powers, aiding it to kill yet more Death Guard. The Death Guard are in mere moments doomed to destruction, the vanguard of the Imperial force entering Ultramar halted in its tracks. The unexpected detonation of the Reaper's Blade's warp engines creates a hole back into reality, causing the Death Guard fleet to tumble through as if caught in a whirlpool. In an instant, the terrible disease disappears, and the dead slump still once more. However, the horror does not stop there, as the Death Guard soon find that there are two ships in particular missing: the Reaper's Blade, flagship of Mortarion himself, and the Terminus Est, ferryship of their most elite and veteran. Later, they will be commemorated, Mortarion and Typhon, Captain of Terminus Est and its veteran cohort, on their homeworld of Barbarus. Many years later, in their name, the Death Guard will reforge their homeworld into a safer haven.

 

Think this small change makes it read better from a not-quite-omniscient perspective.

 

 

 

070.M31 to 088.M31 - The Ultramar Scouring - After Guilliman's bid to take command of the Imperium fails, his vaunted Ultramar Empire is put to the sword and fire. The Ultramarines, newly renamed the Omega Legion, flees to the Warp in search of sanctuary under the leadership of its remaining high officers.

 

The Omega Legion is an Imperial designation that I'd see taking root well after the Heresy. Like in canon, how the Imperium forgot about the traitors until the First Black Crusade. When our traitorous forces return, clearly as something new, the Imperium classifies them under an umbrella term. Reading further, it's because they invert the legion symbol. Makes sense, the Imperials might not even see this new symbol for a thousand years.

 

 

 

094.M31 - Creation of the Iteratus Agnostica - Following the drawn out Scouring of Ultramar, Lorgar's reflection on faith and belief and the merits of the Imperial Truth, the Primarch petitioned the reworking of the Iterator Order. Its tasks would not simply be to spread the Imperial Truth to the conquered worlds of man, but to root out cults. Also envisioned to be within their purview is the evaluation of current Imperial culture on established worlds and the right to declare re-compliance. Chief among these worlds were those conquered by Lorgar and his Legion during their days as the Word Bearers. Many of these worlds were forced to burn once more to root out the beliefs erroneously instilled within them. The dedication of Lorgar and the Imperial Heralds to this end was so absolute that there was no world that could escape their wrath should it fall from their standards - not even Colchis, Lorgar's very homeworld. When Colchis refused to denounce their faiths and called Lorgar a false prophet, it burned like all the others. Since then, the Imperial Heralds have become a fleet-based Legion much like the War Hounds.
 
Mid M31- Creation of the Adeptus Arbites and the Investigatus - Considering the disparate forces of justice throughout the Imperium, Konrad Curze posthumously became the metaphorical father to a standardised, Imperial judiciary system. These men and women follow the letter of the law, as codified by Curze, with utmost determination. Often a Night Lord on hand will oversee and advise operations, perhaps even conducting his own brand of law enforcement. As other institutions were established within the Imperium at this time, the Arbites were soon merged with the newly created Investigatus. The higher-ranking Investigators were highly independent and very powerful agents tasked with investigating all signs of anti-Imperial behaviour across the Imperium's worlds and hierarchies. The Arbites retained their original functions but were additionally made the strong-arm forces of the Investigators. Though anyone of appropriate skill could become an Investigator, in its earliest days they were dominantly of the Custodes. Though the rise in talented mortal Investigators increases over the millennia, the Custodes can still often be found as an Investigator.

 

Just bringing this out into the open, as it'll need to be reworked around new ideas. Most of this is salvageable, I think.

 

 

 

Early M34 - Martian Resurgence/Elohim Project - Mars by then had become an enshrouded prison world. All those who opposed the Auretian Technocracy were collected and left to rot upon the red world. Though given free reign to manage its own affairs, such influence was restricted only to Mars. However, Mars' former status as the Mechanicum meant that despite its current status it remained the greatest forgeworld across the Imperium. It was especially noted for its successes at bringing theoretical work to alpha and beta stages, far surpassing other worlds in this regard. As such, when the Emperor gave his patronage to the Elohim Project, which would enhance the physiology of the Space Marines, only Mars was trusted with its earliest work. After many failed false starts, they did succeed in getting it to the testing stages. However, they refused to release their findings until they could be given autonomy from the Auretian Technocracy and were placed back to their former status. After a brief, minor struggle in which many of Mars were killed by enraged Auretians seeking to take it by force, the Emperor finally stepped in. The Technocracy, he felt, had overstepped its bounds and the Martians were well within their rights to make such a demand. As the Auretian Technocracy was by default subservient completely to the Emperor's will, they could do nothing but stand idly by as they were once more disbanded. The structure of Technocracy would remain in place, however Mars would stand as an equal to Auretia in its governance. As such, the institution was renamed the Scientifica. True to their word, Mars released their findings and the Elohim Project was brought to full fruition.

 

On one hand, this just screams Cawl and the Primaris.

 

On the other hand, Cawl would make a great Dark Mechanicum fabricator-general.

 

 

 

Late M37 - Age of Heirarchs - Following the discovery of ancient documents pre-dating the Great Crusade, the Elohim Project is reinstated in light of its advanced sciences. Thousands of Marines from the varied Loyalists are tested and augmented. However, before any findings could be recorded, the Emperor, returned from a recent period of isolation within the Imperial Routes deep in Segmentum Tempestus, brought the Project to a screeching halt. All research and documents were destroyed and the test subject Marines sent back to their Legions. Soon the Emperor's response was to prove prophetic as a period of uncontrollable mutations and mental breakdowns wiped out more than 99% of their number. Almost none survived the following decades, either by rampant changes, death or capture by the Traitor Legions who sought to unlock their secrets. Of the thousands tested, only nine ever lived and stabilized. These nine showed the true potential of the reinstated Project, as they were without peer. To the Imperium, it was as if the Primarchs once more walked among them. These nine quickly rose through the ranks of their respective Legion claiming the titles of Heirarchs, the heirs of their Primarch. They were legends and heroes of the past made flesh once more, and their deeds are recorded in great detail. Three of the Heirarchs were of the Sons of Horus Legion, who led their Legion as the triumvirate Mournival through a series of victories unmatched by any since the days of their lost Warmaster. The ever-expanding Raven Guard had in their Legion two Heirarchs. One who governed and directed the Legion from Deliverance and one who led the largest incursion to ever venture into the Eye of Terror. No other Legion had as many Heirarchs as the Sons of Horus or Raven Guard. Like their long-gone Primarchs, none were immortal and the last Heirarch fell in battle against the Dark Eldar mid M39.

 

One of the Primaris organs is half of an organ unique to the Primarchs. Perhaps somebody naughty found a way to complete the organ.

 

 

 

V - White Scars - Betrayed by Fulgrim and later disillusioned by his fellow rebels, the Great Khan and his Legion secedes during the Heresy and forms a splinter empire radiating out to the galactic north-east, originally encompassing a fifth of the galaxy. The Khanate Empire exists as variously sized fiefs and exhibits very similar attitudes and outlooks as the canon 40k Imperium does. The Khanate shrinks over time due to attrition against traitors and Imperials alike and is by the 41st Millennium a very truncated version of what it originally was, centred around the Maelstrom. Though the Great Khan disappeared long ago under mysterious circumstances, rumours abound that he may have returned...

 

More in keeping with new ideas.

 

This might need further thought however. I realize that we have Fulgrim effectively creating two traitor legions thanks to confusion over loyalties. Should we keep it that way? Or should we have someone else doubt the Khan's loyalties, and if so, who?

 

 

057.M31 - War in the Webway - To be expanded upon

 

I'll take a crack at it. It'll probably need to be edited down to fit in the timeline.

 

 

The Lion's connections with the shadowy xenos known as the Cabal grants his forces access to the subreality demesne of the Imperial Palace. A lightning assault down this path could surprise the Terran defenders, and force the Emperor to redirect men from the outer walls. The White Scars were the ideal soldiers for such a conflict, though the Lion also committed a considerable portion of his mortal forces, the Caerulea Militia, to hold ground and objectives claimed by the Khan's sons. If the Fifth Legion managed to break through into the Imperial Palace, the mortal men and women would flood the bastion and bury it with their corpses. The Khan did not trust the alien Cabal, and so left the fleet fully crewed and on alert in orbit over the world upon which the portal sat. The march within the alien realm was considerable, and entire regiments were lost in its labyrinthine depths even with guides. The White Scars were uncomfortable with the rituals and rhetoric witnessed among their allies, and committed themselves wholly as outriders.

 

Upon Imperial contact, the alien guides faded down various side shafts, leaving the invaders on their own. Though defenses were expected, the sheer number of Custodes and Sisters of Silence encountered were a surprise, and the first two attempts to break into a central node were repulsed. The whirling tempest known as Jaghatai Khan changed the flow of battle, his presence striking the battlefield like a bolt of lightning. Though tens of thousands of mortal lives were lost, including a fair few Brotherhoods of the Fifth, a beachhead was established. The victory proved minor, as the ongoing battle only increased in pitch. The central node was an impossible city, built by alien hands ages ago but everywhere was the touch of man. Insight on Imperial defenses as briefed by Rogal Dorn had revealed a surprising lack of Custodes on Terra, but even such foreknowledge failed to prepare the Lion's forces for the Emperor's elite bodyguards en mass. With the Khan leading the invasion, victory was certain, but against the Emperor's peers it would be Pyrrhic at best.

 

Surprisingly, it was the Caerulea Militia that provided that needed edge to tip the scales. Though hopelessly outmatched, the filth they had stained their hearts and minds with blossomed among the carnage. Clawing themselves free from pools of blood, like twisted creatures of the deep, came daemonic contenders.Though indiscriminate with their violence, the multi-hued, horned and limbed horde tore savagely at the Imperial defenders, held only just at bay by the headache-inducing aura of the Silent Sisterhood. As more of the Warp denizens take part in the battle, the already poor hold that the rules of reality have within the webway weaken further. It could not be known by those who fought how long the war waged or if the battle for Terra itself still burned. Slowly, and at great cost, the Imperial defenders were forced back to blockade the great arterial path that led to Terra, when the Emperor himself entered the fray.

 

Golden light filled the webway as if a false sun rose above the city, and the nearly victorious traitors were cast back. The Emperor's presence proved that the battle above had been fought to its full, and the Lion had clearly lost. Jaghatai Khan gave the order to the legion: fall back to the portal. No such order was given to the Caerulea Militia, for none was needed. Those that had not already fled the battlefield were in a maddened fugue state, and had long since ceased recognition of command. Refusing to face his father in combat, the primarch and his sons retreated into the depths under the cover of the suicidal. In the myriad paths and tunnels, the legion was far from safe. Pursued by the Imperials, slowed by the fleeing masses, the White Scars fought savagely until they breached into the clear. Bereft of xenos guides, the march back took just as long even without the mortal forces holding them back.

 

Though the twisting paths of the webway defied all reason and logic, the perfect recall of the legiones astartes and the blessed mind of Jaghatai Khan prevented the majority of the surviving legion from being lost in its depths. The White Scars returned to the portal from which they had come, but there they found the agents of the Cabal hastily sealing it shut. With howls of fury and rage drowning the deep growl and snarl of engines, the White Scars struck the xenos with the Khan at the lead. The sheer force of impact disrupted the ritual, allowing the bulk of the legion to thunder through as other elements ferociously fought to keep the path clear. First through the portal and back upon the muster world, the Khan immediately contacted the fleet. Within minutes, the nighttime sky was lit by streaking and pulsing lights as the ships of the White Scars and the Cabal meet in close, decisive combat. Accustomed to the acts of treachery and manipulation, the xenos were unable to effectively fight a conventional battle. Those that did not warp-jump free were quickly reduced to burning husks.

 

The White Scars were greatly reduced in number since they mustered for battle, and had nothing to show for the price paid. Within his quarters, the Khan ruminated on the events that had led him and his sons to this point, and what it meant for their future. What else was there to stand for? The bastard Fulgrim had forced him from the Emperor's camp, and though that day still burned in his mind the Khan could not help but to feel freed by it. He had stood with the Lion, knowing survival depended upon standing together. But the rebellious primarchs were just as fractured, bickering now more than they ever had before. Without the Guilliman's support, the Lion had lost and presumed dead. For all the Khan yet knew, the only remaining rebels were himself and Guilliman. Yet, the Khan had seen among the warriors of Ultramar the very same corruption. None who had walked that path to its fullest remained true to themselves. Why continue to stand beside those remain upon it?

 

No, perhaps another path could be taken. One free of the Imperial delusion, free of alien manipulation, and free of chaos corruption. For all the Emperor's faults, one truth had revealed itself.

 

To survive, one must be free.


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#356
SixOfOne

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The Lion's Gate is one of the major battles of the canon Siege, isn't it? I don't remember enough about the Crusader Host to remember if they're in close proximity or not, but sure, I guess.

 

A heavily damaged port, plus the replacement of the Fists with the Iron Warriors, could be our way of weakening Terra's defenses like the canon Word Bearers and Alpha Legion did. Or at least one of our ways, we can maybe do more.

 

 

 

054.M31 - The Lion and the Warrior King - Following the Ork invasion at Calth, taking the Ultramarines by surprise and destroying an entire fleet nearing completion at its shipyards, El'Jonson sways many of Guilliman's followers into attempting to end the war in one decisive thrust. With the favour of the Dark Gods upon him, the Lion instigates a series of internecine skirmishes among the rebels. The fighting eventually dissipates and the Lion proceeds to lead an assault on Terra, with the intention of slaying the Emperor and breaking the Loyalists.

 

This is fine on its own, but this is something we need to expand upon at some point. The Orks sucker punch Guilliman, and the Lion takes advantage. That's the final piece in a series are struggling to take control of the Heresy. The Lion wins, for now.

 

 

 

062.M31 - Final Voyage of the Reaper's Blade - The Death Guard, led by Mortarion, are the first to enter Ultramar, ahead of other Imperial forces. Though they initially met with success, they are caught in the opening squalls of the Ruinstorm. As a strange warpborne plague tore through their fleets, the Death Guard are all but unable to defend against this mysterious pathogen. Worse still, those killed are animated by its dark powers, aiding it to kill yet more Death Guard. The Death Guard are in mere moments doomed to destruction, the vanguard of the Imperial force entering Ultramar halted in its tracks. The unexpected detonation of the Reaper's Blade's warp engines creates a hole back into reality, causing the Death Guard fleet to tumble through as if caught in a whirlpool. In an instant, the terrible disease disappears, and the dead slump still once more. However, the horror does not stop there, as the Death Guard soon find that there are two ships in particular missing: the Reaper's Blade, flagship of Mortarion himself, and the Terminus Est, ferryship of their most elite and veteran. Later, they will be commemorated, Mortarion and Typhon, Captain of Terminus Est and its veteran cohort, on their homeworld of Barbarus. Many years later, in their name, the Death Guard will reforge their homeworld into a safer haven.

 

Think this small change makes it read better from a not-quite-omniscient perspective.

 

 

 

070.M31 to 088.M31 - The Ultramar Scouring - After Guilliman's bid to take command of the Imperium fails, his vaunted Ultramar Empire is put to the sword and fire. The Ultramarines, newly renamed the Omega Legion, flees to the Warp in search of sanctuary under the leadership of its remaining high officers.

 

The Omega Legion is an Imperial designation that I'd see taking root well after the Heresy. Like in canon, how the Imperium forgot about the traitors until the First Black Crusade. When our traitorous forces return, clearly as something new, the Imperium classifies them under an umbrella term. Reading further, it's because they invert the legion symbol. Makes sense, the Imperials might not even see this new symbol for a thousand years.

 

 

 

094.M31 - Creation of the Iteratus Agnostica - Following the drawn out Scouring of Ultramar, Lorgar's reflection on faith and belief and the merits of the Imperial Truth, the Primarch petitioned the reworking of the Iterator Order. Its tasks would not simply be to spread the Imperial Truth to the conquered worlds of man, but to root out cults. Also envisioned to be within their purview is the evaluation of current Imperial culture on established worlds and the right to declare re-compliance. Chief among these worlds were those conquered by Lorgar and his Legion during their days as the Word Bearers. Many of these worlds were forced to burn once more to root out the beliefs erroneously instilled within them. The dedication of Lorgar and the Imperial Heralds to this end was so absolute that there was no world that could escape their wrath should it fall from their standards - not even Colchis, Lorgar's very homeworld. When Colchis refused to denounce their faiths and called Lorgar a false prophet, it burned like all the others. Since then, the Imperial Heralds have become a fleet-based Legion much like the War Hounds.
 
Mid M31- Creation of the Adeptus Arbites and the Investigatus - Considering the disparate forces of justice throughout the Imperium, Konrad Curze posthumously became the metaphorical father to a standardised, Imperial judiciary system. These men and women follow the letter of the law, as codified by Curze, with utmost determination. Often a Night Lord on hand will oversee and advise operations, perhaps even conducting his own brand of law enforcement. As other institutions were established within the Imperium at this time, the Arbites were soon merged with the newly created Investigatus. The higher-ranking Investigators were highly independent and very powerful agents tasked with investigating all signs of anti-Imperial behaviour across the Imperium's worlds and hierarchies. The Arbites retained their original functions but were additionally made the strong-arm forces of the Investigators. Though anyone of appropriate skill could become an Investigator, in its earliest days they were dominantly of the Custodes. Though the rise in talented mortal Investigators increases over the millennia, the Custodes can still often be found as an Investigator.

 

Just bringing this out into the open, as it'll need to be reworked around new ideas. Most of this is salvageable, I think.

 

 

 

Early M34 - Martian Resurgence/Elohim Project - Mars by then had become an enshrouded prison world. All those who opposed the Auretian Technocracy were collected and left to rot upon the red world. Though given free reign to manage its own affairs, such influence was restricted only to Mars. However, Mars' former status as the Mechanicum meant that despite its current status it remained the greatest forgeworld across the Imperium. It was especially noted for its successes at bringing theoretical work to alpha and beta stages, far surpassing other worlds in this regard. As such, when the Emperor gave his patronage to the Elohim Project, which would enhance the physiology of the Space Marines, only Mars was trusted with its earliest work. After many failed false starts, they did succeed in getting it to the testing stages. However, they refused to release their findings until they could be given autonomy from the Auretian Technocracy and were placed back to their former status. After a brief, minor struggle in which many of Mars were killed by enraged Auretians seeking to take it by force, the Emperor finally stepped in. The Technocracy, he felt, had overstepped its bounds and the Martians were well within their rights to make such a demand. As the Auretian Technocracy was by default subservient completely to the Emperor's will, they could do nothing but stand idly by as they were once more disbanded. The structure of Technocracy would remain in place, however Mars would stand as an equal to Auretia in its governance. As such, the institution was renamed the Scientifica. True to their word, Mars released their findings and the Elohim Project was brought to full fruition.

 

On one hand, this just screams Cawl and the Primaris.

 

On the other hand, Cawl would make a great Dark Mechanicum fabricator-general.

 

 

 

Late M37 - Age of Heirarchs - Following the discovery of ancient documents pre-dating the Great Crusade, the Elohim Project is reinstated in light of its advanced sciences. Thousands of Marines from the varied Loyalists are tested and augmented. However, before any findings could be recorded, the Emperor, returned from a recent period of isolation within the Imperial Routes deep in Segmentum Tempestus, brought the Project to a screeching halt. All research and documents were destroyed and the test subject Marines sent back to their Legions. Soon the Emperor's response was to prove prophetic as a period of uncontrollable mutations and mental breakdowns wiped out more than 99% of their number. Almost none survived the following decades, either by rampant changes, death or capture by the Traitor Legions who sought to unlock their secrets. Of the thousands tested, only nine ever lived and stabilized. These nine showed the true potential of the reinstated Project, as they were without peer. To the Imperium, it was as if the Primarchs once more walked among them. These nine quickly rose through the ranks of their respective Legion claiming the titles of Heirarchs, the heirs of their Primarch. They were legends and heroes of the past made flesh once more, and their deeds are recorded in great detail. Three of the Heirarchs were of the Sons of Horus Legion, who led their Legion as the triumvirate Mournival through a series of victories unmatched by any since the days of their lost Warmaster. The ever-expanding Raven Guard had in their Legion two Heirarchs. One who governed and directed the Legion from Deliverance and one who led the largest incursion to ever venture into the Eye of Terror. No other Legion had as many Heirarchs as the Sons of Horus or Raven Guard. Like their long-gone Primarchs, none were immortal and the last Heirarch fell in battle against the Dark Eldar mid M39.

 

One of the Primaris organs is half of an organ unique to the Primarchs. Perhaps somebody naughty found a way to complete the organ.

 

 

 

V - White Scars - Betrayed by Fulgrim and later disillusioned by his fellow rebels, the Great Khan and his Legion secedes during the Heresy and forms a splinter empire radiating out to the galactic north-east, originally encompassing a fifth of the galaxy. The Khanate Empire exists as variously sized fiefs and exhibits very similar attitudes and outlooks as the canon 40k Imperium does. The Khanate shrinks over time due to attrition against traitors and Imperials alike and is by the 41st Millennium a very truncated version of what it originally was, centred around the Maelstrom. Though the Great Khan disappeared long ago under mysterious circumstances, rumours abound that he may have returned...

 

More in keeping with new ideas.

 

This might need further thought however. I realize that we have Fulgrim effectively creating two traitor legions thanks to confusion over loyalties. Should we keep it that way? Or should we have someone else doubt the Khan's loyalties, and if so, who?

 

 

057.M31 - War in the Webway - To be expanded upon

 

I'll take a crack at it. It'll probably need to be edited down to fit in the timeline.

 

 

The Lion's connections with the shadowy xenos known as the Cabal grants his forces access to the subreality demesne of the Imperial Palace. A lightning assault down this path could surprise the Terran defenders, and force the Emperor to redirect men from the outer walls. The White Scars were the ideal soldiers for such a conflict, though the Lion also committed a considerable portion of his mortal forces, the Caerulea Militia, to hold ground and objectives claimed by the Khan's sons. If the Fifth Legion managed to break through into the Imperial Palace, the mortal men and women would flood the bastion and bury it with their corpses. The Khan did not trust the alien Cabal, and so left the fleet fully crewed and on alert in orbit over the world upon which the portal sat. The march within the alien realm was considerable, and entire regiments were lost in its labyrinthine depths even with guides. The White Scars were uncomfortable with the rituals and rhetoric witnessed among their allies, and committed themselves wholly as outriders.

 

Upon Imperial contact, the alien guides faded down various side shafts, leaving the invaders on their own. Though defenses were expected, the sheer number of Custodes and Sisters of Silence encountered were a surprise, and the first two attempts to break into a central node were repulsed. The whirling tempest known as Jaghatai Khan changed the flow of battle, his presence striking the battlefield like a bolt of lightning. Though tens of thousands of mortal lives were lost, including a fair few Brotherhoods of the Fifth, a beachhead was established. The victory proved minor, as the ongoing battle only increased in pitch. The central node was an impossible city, built by alien hands ages ago but everywhere was the touch of man. Insight on Imperial defenses as briefed by Rogal Dorn had revealed a surprising lack of Custodes on Terra, but even such foreknowledge failed to prepare the Lion's forces for the Emperor's elite bodyguards en mass. With the Khan leading the invasion, victory was certain, but against the Emperor's peers it would be Pyrrhic at best.

 

Surprisingly, it was the Caerulea Militia that provided that needed edge to tip the scales. Though hopelessly outmatched, the filth they had stained their hearts and minds with blossomed among the carnage. Clawing themselves free from pools of blood, like twisted creatures of the deep, came daemonic contenders.Though indiscriminate with their violence, the multi-hued, horned and limbed horde tore savagely at the Imperial defenders, held only just at bay by the headache-inducing aura of the Silent Sisterhood. As more of the Warp denizens take part in the battle, the already poor hold that the rules of reality have within the webway weaken further. It could not be known by those who fought how long the war waged or if the battle for Terra itself still burned. Slowly, and at great cost, the Imperial defenders were forced back to blockade the great arterial path that led to Terra, when the Emperor himself entered the fray.

 

Golden light filled the webway as if a false sun rose above the city, and the nearly victorious traitors were cast back. The Emperor's presence proved that the battle above had been fought to its full, and the Lion had clearly lost. Jaghatai Khan gave the order to the legion: fall back to the portal. No such order was given to the Caerulea Militia, for none was needed. Those that had not already fled the battlefield were in a maddened fugue state, and had long since ceased recognition of command. Refusing to face his father in combat, the primarch and his sons retreated into the depths under the cover of the suicidal. In the myriad paths and tunnels, the legion was far from safe. Pursued by the Imperials, slowed by the fleeing masses, the White Scars fought savagely until they breached into the clear. Bereft of xenos guides, the march back took just as long even without the mortal forces holding them back.

 

Though the twisting paths of the webway defied all reason and logic, the perfect recall of the legiones astartes and the blessed mind of Jaghatai Khan prevented the majority of the surviving legion from being lost in its depths. The White Scars returned to the portal from which they had come, but there they found the agents of the Cabal hastily sealing it shut. With howls of fury and rage drowning the deep growl and snarl of engines, the White Scars struck the xenos with the Khan at the lead. The sheer force of impact disrupted the ritual, allowing the bulk of the legion to thunder through as other elements ferociously fought to keep the path clear. First through the portal and back upon the muster world, the Khan immediately contacted the fleet. Within minutes, the nighttime sky was lit by streaking and pulsing lights as the ships of the White Scars and the Cabal meet in close, decisive combat. Accustomed to the acts of treachery and manipulation, the xenos were unable to effectively fight a conventional battle. Those that did not warp-jump free were quickly reduced to burning husks.

 

The White Scars were greatly reduced in number since they mustered for battle, and had nothing to show for the price paid. Within his quarters, the Khan ruminated on the events that had led him and his sons to this point, and what it meant for their future. What else was there to stand for? The bastard Fulgrim had forced him from the Emperor's camp, and though that day still burned in his mind the Khan could not help but to feel freed by it. He had stood with the Lion, knowing survival depended upon standing together. But the rebellious primarchs were just as fractured, bickering now more than they ever had before. Without the Guilliman's support, the Lion had lost and presumed dead. For all the Khan yet knew, the only remaining rebels were himself and Guilliman. Yet, the Khan had seen among the warriors of Ultramar the very same corruption. None who had walked that path to its fullest remained true to themselves. Why continue to stand beside those remain upon it?

 

No, perhaps another path could be taken. One free of the Imperial delusion, free of alien manipulation, and free of chaos corruption. For all the Emperor's faults, one truth had revealed itself.

 

To survive, one must be free.

 

This is good, but I have problems with it. I don't feel like it's enough to just have the Cabal, White Scars and regular humans as the invaders. It's simply not enough force. The majority of the Imperial forces in the Webway were Mechanicum battle servitors, tech-thralls or the Legio Cybernetica. The Mechanicum had a massive presence there and probably did most of the actual fighting. The Custodes and Sisters of Silence were a relatively minor force (who played a large role) comparatively and they only got engaged when it was necessary. The Legio Ignatum were also present in almost their entirety. So, at least for me, the attackers have nowhere near enough strength to even get to Calastar let alone make it a close enough fight that necessitates the Emperor's intervention. Even the militia becoming spawn doesn't alleviate this as in Inferno a single Custodian held a street for 9 hours straight against chaos spawn and basically made a barricade out of their bodies. 

 

Furthermore, for me this feels kinda shoehorned in. There isn't the feeling of desperate battle and the ever decreasing chance of the Imperial forces succeeding. For all the problems I have with Master of Mankind, ADB achieves that incredibly well.

 

For me, it would be better having this occur simultaneously with the Emperor re-taking Molech (If that's still happening, it been a while since I've checked). That way there's a reason for the defences of Calastar being weaker. You could even have the White Scars be unmolested by Imperial Forces until they get in range of Calastar bearing in mind that in this situation the Custodes still have the ability to re-take the lost ground in the Webway easily. Meaning that they don't need to waste their forces unnecessarily.

 

Also, it's likely that I've simply missed the update, but why is the Khan working with the Lion. As per the original ideas, the Scars were fighting against traitor forces when they didn't receive help from Fulgrim. It seems unlikely that they would throw their lot in (temporarily) with the traitors after that. An interesting idea though is what if Fulgrim didn't help the Scars because he both didn't trust them enough, but also the Khan insulted him at Ullanor (from Scars)and he holds a grudge because of that? 


Edited by SixOfOne, 27 August 2017 - 06:46 PM.


#357
Conn Eremon

Conn Eremon

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This is good, but I have problems with it.

 

Some good constructive criticism is always appreciated. Even if we don't agree, it still forces us to rethink what we wrote and that is always helpful.

 

 

I don't feel like it's enough to just have the Cabal, White Scars and regular humans as the invaders. It's simply not enough force. The majority of the Imperial forces in the Webway were Mechanicum battle servitors, tech-thralls or the Legio Cybernetica. The Mechanicum had a massive presence there and probably did most of the actual fighting. The Custodes and Sisters of Silence were a relatively minor force (who played a large role) comparatively and they only got engaged when it was necessary. The Legio Ignatum were also present in almost their entirety. So, at least for me, the attackers have nowhere near enough strength to even get to Calastar let alone make it a close enough fight that necessitates the Emperor's intervention. Even the militia becoming spawn doesn't alleviate this as in Inferno a single Custodian held a street for 9 hours straight against chaos spawn and basically made a barricade out of their bodies. 

 

Hm. I thought it was just Custodes and some Sisters, until the daemons became such a threat that other forces, such as the Mechanicum and the Legio, were brought in. Otherwise the only Mechanicum presence was worker-based, which could still be a viable threat in battle. If I'm wrong in that, I'll definitely need to approach it again. Do you remember specific parts that stated the pre-reinforcement order of battle?

 

That said, you bring up a point that I should have clarified the traitor order of battle better. In my head, there is the Legiones Astartes and the Imperialis Auxilia. That's it. If it's not a Space Marine, it's under the Imperial Army umbrella. So when I say "a significant portion of the Lion's mortal forces," I'm picturing a few million conscripts bolstered by a couple hundred elite regiments, at least two or three Knight Houses or maybe a collection of Freeblades, perhaps a demi-legio of Titans, so on and so forth. Maybe a tenth of the kind of forces the Lion must have under his name, which itself would be but a fraction that Guilliman commands.

 

Much like Horus, neither Guilliman or the Lion commanded just Space Marines, but held authority over significant elements of every type of Imperial there is. Perhaps the name Caerulea Militia was misleading and it implies only the chaff, when I was intending it to be the name for the Lion's entire militant force. I'll make some edits down below.

 

Furthermore, for me this feels kinda shoehorned in. There isn't the feeling of desperate battle and the ever decreasing chance of the Imperial forces succeeding. For all the problems I have with Master of Mankind, ADB achieves that incredibly well.

 

Well, it kind of is shoehorned in, but I certainly want it to feel like a natural element of the narrative. While I wouldn't dare to to say that I can evoke a similar feeling in my writing as AD-B does, it's also kinda that it's just a different battle. They may take place in the same location, but they're two very different battles and that's intended.

 

In canon, the Webway is done. There's nothing that can be salvaged of that situation, and the Emperor's presence is absolutely needed in order for the disaster not to spread to Terra itself.

 

Here is an entirely different beast. It's not a war fought for years, but weeks at most. It's not a battle that poses an existential threat to the Emperor or Terra, it's actually meant as a diversion. The Emperor's intervention isn't a necessity, it's just part of the overall narrative for the Lion's failed assault on Terra. Though a doomed venture, it roused the Emperor to the threat posed by the traitorous forces, the Emperor is introduced to the battlefield, ends the fighting on Terra itself and goes down to the Webway to finish the job.

 

But it's the fact that there is a battle being waged above, and that the Imperial defenders have not received reinforcements, that allows for a significant force, bolstered by an entire Legion, to slowly put them on the back-foot.

 

For me, it would be better having this occur simultaneously with the Emperor re-taking Molech (If that's still happening, it been a while since I've checked). That way there's a reason for the defences of Calastar being weaker. You could even have the White Scars be unmolested by Imperial Forces until they get in range of Calastar bearing in mind that in this situation the Custodes still have the ability to re-take the lost ground in the Webway easily. Meaning that they don't need to waste their forces unnecessarily.

 

By the time of Molech, the Webway and Calastar (thanks for reminding me of its name) would include the Space Wolves, Russ, the Thousand Sons and Magnus among the defenders.

 

But, if we did go that route, we'd need a reason for it to be attacked in the first place. If it's not part of the Lion's assault, then either the Khan is doing on his own or Guilliman has commanded him to do so. So either the Khan needs a reason to attack Terra through the webway, or to bend the knee before Guilliman.

 

Also, it's likely that I've simply missed the update, but why is the Khan working with the Lion. As per the original ideas, the Scars were fighting against traitor forces when they didn't receive help from Fulgrim. It seems unlikely that they would throw their lot in (temporarily) with the traitors after that. An interesting idea though is what if Fulgrim didn't help the Scars because he both didn't trust them enough, but also the Khan insulted him at Ullanor (from Scars)and he holds a grudge because of that? 

 

Yes, there was an update. It's in response to other criticism that felt the traitor side was missing too much force to be an equal threat to canon. It was all very mathematically deduced and the logic was sound, though a lot of elements were not taken into account. Understandable, can't expect everyone to read through the entire thing. But it did lead to the thought that maybe the Lion needed more, and from where could we look to give him more strength. Well, with relative minimal change, you could give him the White Scars.

 

All it would require is a reversal of the meetings to the Scars and Fulgrim, and the Scars and the Lion.

 

If the White Scars meet Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children first, there's still an opportunity for mistrust to become hostility and finally outright violence. Canon Khan was already skeptical of the Emperor's designs, and had a greater affinity with many of those who had turned against the Emperor. This attitude can be used against him here, if the Emperor's Children encounter the White Scars and demand to know their allegiance. The Khan, who true to his self is probably completely unaware of all that has happened, would likely not give a clear answer. He would want to see and hear for himself from those who have supposedly betrayed the Emperor what actually happened.

 

The Emperor's Children had just taken a beating at Miral. Men they once called brothers had turned upon them, and Fulgrim's heart would still be heavy after the death of his closest brother of all, Ferrus Manus. If the Khan cannot answer in the affirmative, then it will be assumed in the negative. No more chances. Now, it won't be a fight to the death, and I'd see the White Scars being the ones to retreat and from the get-go. But such an attack would seal the White Scars' fates. A legion whose loyalties have been confirmed beyond all doubt fought a battle against them, and that news will spread. Though it may be far from the truth, in the eyes of all Imperials the White Scars are traitors.

 

Much like the canon Thousand Sons, who never truly intended to betray the Emperor, that decision had been taken from them. And once done, they will have no choice but to fight alongside the traitors. It won't be hard for the Lion to convince the Khan to join him. But this is still the legion and the primarch who held a healthy fear and distrust of the warp and its corruption, and nothing they had done up to that point will have let corruption already sink in like with the canon Thousand Sons. So while they may swear themselves to the Lion's cause, the events within the webway will show them a different side to the traitors than they are willing to accept. There will be plenty of room still for the Khan to denounce both the Imperials and the rebels, and declare himself and his sons only to their own freedom and survival.

 

Ultimately, giving the Lion just a single additional legion and primarch does enough to tip the scales more evenly, I feel. I don't believe that Guilliman's own side needs anything else.

 

In point of fact, when I take FW's legion sizes as my base, use their depiction of Isstvan losses as a template for the kind of losses seen at Miral, remove the loyalist First Legion, Iron Hands, Space Wolves and Thousand Sons as anything but token players, Guilliman's side gains the edge in numbers, purely on the Legiones Astartes side. By the time the Emperor invades Ultramar, the legions at his command may have numbered anywhere from 750,000 to 1,000,000 strong, rounded. Guilliman, on the other hand, may have had anywhere from 850,000 to 1,200,000 legionaries, again rounded.

 

Considering the impact that the Carrion Edict must have had, Guilliman may have been able to field up to half again as many Space Marines as the Emperor could. Guilliman also being true to himself, the average Ultramar world and soldier would have an edge on the Imperial opposite. Granted, not every world or regiment of Guilliman's grossly expanded Ultramar Empire is going to be as great or powerful as those of the Five Hundred Worlds, but there'd still be an impact.

 

I honestly think that we've done enough with Guilliman's side of things that, when you include the Ruinstorm and overflowing daemonic hordes, you need the Emperor to personally take part in order for the Imperials to have a chance for anything other than outright defeat.


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#358
SixOfOne

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Thanks for clearing stuff up for me Conn. The new direction of the White Scars as per that is fine and makes sense. I have to admit I don't remember the specific parts in Master Of Mankind that state the scale of the Mechanicum involvement in the Webway, and it wasn't really the focus of the novel. However, there's some stuff in chapter 4 saying how the Mechanicum had been bled dry over the 5 years, and how the requisition requests were only getting greater. It would also make sense that he Mechanicum provides the bulk of the forces. The deamons are limitless and the Custodes are only 10,000 strong and the SoS are not exactly the most numerous organisation. They would need Mechanicum military support from the start and they were the only viable forces due to the Emperor's Decree.

I would probably increase the size of the invading force further. Make it something like a 1/5(?) of the Lion's forces. At the start just have the invading force be an expeditionary force which is favouring speed over power. This fits as they're not expecting much, if any, resistance. However, have the Lion commit more and more forces, even if it's only to bleed the 10,000 and Silent Sisterhood which would be pretty big obstacles. This further ties into the Imperial forces needing to retreat to Calastar and bring in additional forces from Terra. That's just my thoughts on the subject though.





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