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The Guilliman Heresy

Alternate Heresy Guilliman Heresy

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#151
Conn Eremon

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Sorry for the double post. I realize I've been sitting on some notes for some time now, that I haven't posted. Might as well do so now that this project may be picking back up again.

 

Current Fate of the Primarchs
 
The Lion - Held deep within the Rock
Fulgrim - Slain at the hands of the Lion at Terra
Perturabo - Slain by Dorn at the Scouring of Inwit
Jaghatai Khan - Disappeared into the Webway
Leman Russ - Slain on Medusa fighting the renegade Iron Hands
Rogal Dorn - Daemon Prince of Nurgle
Konrad Curze - Assassinated at the Siege of Macragge
Sanguinius - Daemon Prince of Khorne
Ferrus Manus - Slain by Fulgrim at Miral
Angron - Slain by Sanguinius at Armageddon
Roboute Guilliman - Slain by the Emperor at Macragge, placed in stasis at the instant prior to true death
Magnus the Red - Sits upon the Golden Throne
Horus Lupercal - Dies of wounds at Davin
Lorgar Aurelian - Disappeared into the Webway
Corax - "Nevermore"
Alpharius Omegon - Unknown
 
Lets modify a couple. Corax and the Khan. Really, that's their fates because that's what happens in canon. No other reason. But we have a very different Khan and the reasons behind Corax's walk-off are now void.
 
Corax especially needs a change. He's not as conflicted in the Guilliman Heresy, or at least he shouldn't be. He hasn't created a host of monsters and the Emperor is still alive. So I think he needs a heroic death. Part of me wants to keep him alive or have his fate be utterly unknowable, but we've already got the Alpha Legion for that sort of shadowy stuff and I think Corax deserves something more. That being said, we do have the Raven come back to life a lot. He's at Namn and is believed dead, shows up with bigger army. One of my past posts depicted this being a common theme, sort of like how Sanguinius is depicted but in a less daemonic way. It'd be ironic that the two winged Primarchs, one biologically and the other technologically, have a phoenix-like legend to them while the Phoenician does not. Many stories of his actions conflict with the abundant rumors of his death. I like the idea that the in-universe people see that but I think the readers should know more definitively. So here goes!
 
First of all is the who. Immediately I say it must be a Legion who finally fells the Raven and I think it should be one that has yet to provide such a feat.
 
So we've got among the Traitors:
 
The White Scars, who deal with Lorgar Aurelian and hold off both the Emperor's Children and Night Lords
 
The Dark Angels, who slay the Phoenician, invade Terra, snap up Guilliman's sworn followers and, on the Loyalist side, take down one of the traitor Warmasters.
 
The Omega Legion, who are the arch-traitors of this story. Curiously, Guilliman hadn't killed anyone. Primarchs, I mean. Maybe because he doesn't want to?
 
The Salamanders, who already have a grudge against the Raven Guard and . . . well, they actually don't have much.
 
The Blood Angels, who tore apart Angron on a world named for the apocalypse. That's pretty cool.
 
The Iron Hands, who lost their own Primarch to a Loyalist and so killed Russ in one of their giant caterpillar machines that I totally imagine as those Star Wars six-legged bug variant of the AT-ATs we saw in that jungle world of the Prequels. Y'know, where the blue Jedi chick gets shot down by Clone Troopers? Anywho.
 
The Imperial Fists, who take down Perturabo on their turf. However, the Crusader Host might have something to prove. Speaking of which, we should clarify Perturabo's death in such a way that Dorn wouldn't be able to go "YOU MINE NOW OKAY" to his corpse. Simple "Not of my gene-seed, not as intimate with his body as I was with my own and not quite to that power level yet" could work, I suppose. It'd be interesting to hint that a fully powered Dorn could have resurrected Perturabo and controlled his body much as he does his own but did not have the power or knowledge to do so at the time. Hint at how close it could have come.
 
Well, Salamanders are the obvious choice, though the Omega Legion and Crusader Host have their own reasons to perhaps be involved. Right off the bat, I'll say no to the Salamanders. It's just too easy an option. We can throw them some other bone. But I've got no real preference between the other two. So I'll just flip a coin (I mean it, I literally am. Best two out of three kills Corax) and get started.
 
 - - - - - - - 
 
In the early decades of the third century of M32, the Imperial citizens of Sub-Sector Vidaulle began issuing desperate pleas for aid, detailing an immense Space Hulk that had been terrorizing their shipping lanes. When word spread that the Hive World Kynetres Prime had been wiped out by the vessel's orbital bombardments, the Raven Guard mobilized to end this threat. Entering the Kynetres system as a third world was in the midst of destruction, the Raven Guard found that they were not facing a Space Hulk but a Ramilies-class Star Fort. A great amount of experimental work had gone into it, granting it powerful engines capable of moving the behemoth and creating an abominable shape, explaining its misclassification. A quick search by the Raven Guard's tutelary machines verified its identity as the Fierce Wrath. It was last seen in the area of space around Inwit, its host of Ultramarines, led by the First Master Marius Gage, aiding the Imperial Fists in the defense of their former Empire.  Times had changed. Imperial classification of the Traitors had become the Omega Legion and the Imperium's information-scryers state that Marius Gage still lived and now styled himself the Pentarch, a competitor to the sole surviving Tetrach for the role of Legion Commander. The Raven Guard fleet, heavily modified for stealth, was able to slip close enough to unleash an intense barrage that rivaled the glare of the local sun. In one swift stroke they nearly demolished a quadrant of the Fierce Wrath, leaving it wide open for the Legionaires to storm aboard, led by their Primarch Corax himself. 
 
Upon entering the Star Fort, the Raven Guard discovered that the Fierce Wrath had undergone a great number of internal modifications due to clear manipulation of the Warp. Massive hangar bays depicted in stored blueprints were at times too small for a single squad of Marines to be inside at the same time, while what should have been cramped maintenance corridors were of such size that they had formed micro-atmospheres. When required to re-tread ground, the Raven Guard discovered that rooms already travelled through would have different configurations when reached again. Despite the fluctuations, it was clear that the inside of the Fierce Wrath was many-times greater in space than it physically had room for and it was filled with heavily entrenched Traitor Marines. Sending word to the embattled fleet, Corax ordered the majority of his Legion forces to board the Star Fort. Nearly thirty thousand Raven Guard entered the Fierce Wrath, facing an enemy that outnumbered them at times three to one. Though at a clear disadvantage, Corax led his forces deep into the Star Fort, tearing their enemies apart as they sank further in. The Raven Guard succeeded in outmaneouvering the Omega Legion, sabotaging the great vessel to remove shields and weapons so that their mighty fleet could strike the weakened sections. However, their attempt to breach the central fortress met with failure. Only when Corax plunged himself into one such assault did a fraction of the Legion gain admittance. Instead of turning this small success into a beachhead, Corax and his men were cut off from the remainder of the Legion as the interior shifted its configurations once more.
 
When the Raven Guard were finally able to re-establish with their isolated brothers, they found them all dead. Piles of Omega Legionnaires littered the area, with the black armor sprinkled throughout. Following the path of carnage, watching the piles of dead grow higher and higher for both sides, they finally came across the prone form of their Primarch. Upon a hill of the dead Corax lay, his upper body cored through entirely and steaming. He had one bladed hand clutching the throat of a dead, battered Legionnaire while his other fist clutched a warped Plasma Cannon by the barrel. With the outside fleet warning the onboard Raven Guard that the Star Fort had begun powering its immense warp engines, the survivors grabbed their Primarch's body and made fast for their getaways. Though many did not make it and were dragged off with the Star Fort to Emperor knows where, Corax's body was among those who escaped. They took Corax to Deliverance, where he was entombed within its base. Those who witnessed the interring knew that never more would there be another of his like again.
 
--- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
There. That does a few extra things. Not only does it utterly conclude the fate of Corax but it also illustrates the beginnings of the Omega Legion's unique upper hierarchy. It didn't just create itself overnight and all of sudden there was a score of High Lords with cool titles. No, when the Heresy was ended, only one of the Tetrarchs lived. This Tetrarch made of himself the Legion Commander. But Marius Gage was himself exceptionally high-ranking. He was Chapter Master of the First Chapter, the equivalent to individuals like Sigismund, Abaddon, Raldoran and Sevatar. Following the Heresy, he took for himself the title of Pentarch and established himself as a rival to the Tetrarch for command of the Legion. This could be an example of the internal wars that could go on among the Traitors following the Heresy, as the Canon Traitor Legions went through. This eventually stabilizes into a semblence of order, after a few more High Lords have risen to the lofty heights. But it all began as one taking over as over-all leader following Guilliman's death and another challenging his claim by taking for himself an equal rank. As for why and how it stabilizes, we can rationalize that these High Lords, being something of geniuses in command really, realized that if only one succeeded and was able to declare himself the sole Legion Commander, that'd be all he'd ever be. Commander of the Omega Legion. He would never be able to command the other Legions as Guilliman once did. Only if the High Lords set aside their own internecine wars and set forth a unified front, establish themselves as "figureheads" for the voice of their "still living" Warmaster, could they hope to reign the others to their cause. Plus, I'd wanted to do a 'nevermore' reference better than it had been done in canon. Just walking off stating 'Nevermore' was always a bit much, in my mind. At least insert the words a bit more naturally to the piece. It also let me introduce the Fierce Wrath, a Star Fort I'd planned on having the Septarch steal from one of the other High Lords, now seen to be the Pentarch Marius Gage.
 
Other than that, I'd thought of making this be the stalled beginnings of a "Black Crusade," but I didn't want Corax's fall to be too close to canon Dorn's. 
 
 
+++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++
 
Okay, I'm stuck in this location for a while so I figured I'd start writing up on something I'd been thinking about for a while. First of all I'll mention that the Night Lord's first draft has been finished and I will begin compiling the Salamanders next. I haven't posted the Night Lords yet because I wanted to see if Olisredan could get it into the locked first thread. Let it clutter up further while we link to it here. He's a tad indisposed lately, so that's why nobody's heard from him here for a bit. 
 
Anyway, I'd like to expand more on the Age of the Heirarchs. I rather liked the number I'd given at the first for the total number of loyal Heirarchs, so I'll be adding more to the mix so that I can have some to play with. Any Heirarchs that I mention here that have not already been confirmed to exist in prior posts are not part of the earlier given total. The idea I have came about while thinking of the Goge Vandire and Badab War of canon 40k. While we have come up with parallel events, we haven't necessarily come up with equivalent events. Though what we have is certainly major, I feel that our Imperium deserves a true war with itself. We've got the Nova Terra Interegnum replaced with the Martian Resurgence, the Age of Apostasy with a period of time rife with Necron Awakenings, secessions and White Scar assaults and the Badab War with an altercation between renegade Night Lords and the Iron Warriors. But these canon events were in many ways the return of the Age of Heresy, though the scope varied. We don't really have that and I would like us to. I think the Heirarchs can provide the perfect vehicle. And to make things interesting, I'm going to have it replace the events of the Macharian Crusade. A period of glory for the canon Imperium.
 
So I give you the Macharian Heresy! 
 
Just kidding. Though seriously, that sounds awesome. And according to Lexicanum already exists. Huh. And scratch that, I have the last Heirarch falling mid-M39 and the Macharian Crusade was early M41.
 
 
874.M38   Heirarch and Chapter Master of the Righteous Sworn Gustevi Larukell rises to the rank of Lord Commander, in over-all command of the sixty-seven Chapters of the Imperial Heralds Legion stationed in Segmentum Pacificus. His predecessor, Commander Karnivus Etin, fell at the hands of the Orks of Waaagh! Urlkin, frustrating the ongoing campaign to locate and execute Morlock Cantius, a Chaos Lord of the Iron Hands.
 
931.M38  Imperial Heralds of the Chapter of the Blackened Warrior successfully imprison Jaggaeroth, a Greater Daemon of Khorne, in a caged dimension, proving the success of the technology reverse-engineered from xeno arcana. Within decades, their use would become common. Under the command of Heirarch Gustevi Larukell, hundreds of Daemons are imprisoned.
 
136.M39  The Golden Host Crusade is formed to retake half a dozen Sectors torn from the Imperium by awakening Necrons. Significant forces from many of the Legions stationed in Segmentum Pacificus take part. Most notable are the Heirarchs of the Dark Angels, Dusk Raiders, Emperor's Children and the Imperial Heralds.
 
145.M39  Heirarch Gustevi Larukell disappears at the Battle of Kazinyr, along with a significant portion of his forces. Evidence of Traitor Marines is discovered. The Dark Angels task themselves with hunting down and eliminating the new threat.
 
147.M39  The Golden Host Crusade, having retaken four Sectors from the Necrons, loses its second Heirarch, of the Emperor's Children, once more under mysterious circumstances and with evidence of the involvement of Chaos. The commanders are unable to locate the Dark Angels, leading many to wonder if they too had been destroyed and lost.
 
153.M39  With the Necrons having nearly forced the Imperial forces out of their space following their tragic losses in the heavy electromagnetic storms of the Sunfire Confluence, the Dusk Raiders, taking the remnants of the other Legion forces remaining with the main Crusade host in an attempt to divide the Necron forces and crush them between the two Imperial armies.
 
3156.M39  Despite recent victories, the Golden Host Crusade is permanently stalled following uncertain fate of the Dusk Raiders and their Heirarch, whose fleets never arrived at their destination. Though the capriciousness of the Warp is noted, the fates of the other Heirarchs and Legionary forces lends their disappearance a sinister tone. 
 
164.M39  The Dark Angels forces return to the Imperium. What they encountered while separated remains unknown. All attempts to approach them on the matter have been meant with silence.
 
Yep. I'm done. Writing it was a chore and reading it over was even harder. I'll leave that sort of thing to someone with better writing skills than I, such as Olisredan. 
 
Note: From this point on, it is no longer months-old notes
Man. Just to give you an idea, I think I had last written that in May or something. Long story short, Hierarch of the Imperial Heralds is a traitor, corrupted by his contact with Daemonic forcs, wrangles a few peers to his cause and decides to wreak holy havoc upon one of the greatest Crusades of Imperial history, forcing more and more armies to get sucked into it and used up. Not sure where the conclusion should end up, who is 'victorious.' Best would probably be no one, this being Warhammer 40k and all. One thing is for sure, the Dark Angels' Fallen are involved and the Imperial Dark Angels are the obvious traitors, until they show themselves to be the definite heroes.
 
+++ --- +++ --- +++ --- +++
 
Just an idea on all the unique armors we got going on, but what about patterns and variants? I think we got a whole heck of a lot of armors going around, thanks to Olisredan's musings on the matter. Maybe the best way to organize them would be to draw similarities between them and create a smaller list of 'marks,' made up of various patterns and variants. It's been a while since I've even thought about all the armors we got going on, so I can't think of any good examples, but I do remember that some of the descriptions talked about similarities to certain marks. So I think it'll be an easy way to organize all the different armors into a coherent collection for easy reference.
 
It occurs to me now that we may already have something like this in place, it's just been so long I've forgotten. If not, I'm bringing it up now. If we already do, better redundant than sorry!

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#152
Grotsmasha

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Its great to see some movement here, and excellent timing with Olisredan's return too. I like everything I've read and don't really have any critique to add. In the original thread I put up some rough pics as suggestions for Legion/Chapter symbols, iirc Dark Angels (Traitor), Blood Angels (Khorne) and a Nurgleish one?? If you guys want to throw up ideas for more I'd be happy to sketch out some more to see how they look.

 

Cheers,

Jono



#153
Olis

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Alright, so I have a bit of bad news for this post: I'm going to have to redo the Imperial Fists in it's entirety, considering the first attempt is (afaik) lost in the warp. Geez. :rolleyes:  


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#154
Conn Eremon

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Just remember that you did post this collection of Imperial Fists fluff, so hopefully you won't have to start entirely from scratch. Too bad you never messaged anyone a draft of your IA, though. Like, to someone who might have pestered you to do so, every now and then. :P

 

Consider it a good thing, though. You got a chance to get reacquainted from the ground up, rather than just jumping in. It's how I'm looking at my trawl through for Salamander stuff.


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#155
Olis

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Cheers for the reminder, Cormac. I figured that particular info was around somewhere. ;)

 

It's a shame the IA disappeared - it was 99% there, really. Oh well. 


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#156
Conn Eremon

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Sorry, Grot, just noticed your offer.

Well, Salamanders are a forward facing Drake head, Slaaneshi symbols carved into its head, or formed by its snorted flame.

Iron Hands remains the same, Tzeentch's symbol on the back of the hand.

Omega Legion is, mostly, nonexistent. It's a :cuss ton of independent Warbands that the Imperium refers as the Omega Legion. I have a few ideas, which I may delve into later, nut otherwise I'm open to ideas.

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#157
Conn Eremon

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Just to give an update, I have gathered all of the Salamander fluff together. I'll spend the week reading through it, highlighting that which we're still considering current and "canon" and putting a skeleton of an IA together. I'll post it all up then.


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#158
Olis

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Looks like you folks might get a bumper update, this week: The Imperial Fists IA is close to completion. Pyromanders and Plague Fists at the same time? Madness! ;)


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#159
Conn Eremon

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Completely forgot to post the Salamanders fluff today, sorry. I will either post them up Monday when I have internet on my laptop and can more easily vet the post before submitting, or Sunday when my phone's data plan resets.

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#160
Ace Debonair

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Good to see this is still going. I'd pitch in more, but I'm already tied up with three other projects.sweat.gif

 

Instead, you'll have to settle for me giving polite applause.


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#161
Conn Eremon

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Bit sooner than I thought. Here is all of the Salamanders fluff. There's a bit more than some of the others in sheer amount, but less than most in actual content, sadly. I'll be filling in a lot of holes.

Legio Astartes - Salamanders

Culled from the Guilliman Heresy Project up to Post #156 of Page 7 of Thread 2
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guilliman Heresy Thread 1

- Turned to Chaos for reasons unknown.
- Vulkan prayed to the Chaos pantheon and all of his nine artifacts were enhanced with Warp powers.
- The Salamanders, contrary to their fluff, now abhor humanity after the heresy, seeing themselves as vastly superior.

- The legion likes to bombard their targets with flame and melta weapons from orbit, before descending and mopping up what is left.
- Vulkan was slain on Armageddon by Perturabo, and his nine artifacts were scattered throughout the galaxy.
- The legion is currently under the command of High Sorceror Vel'cona, who delights in immolating those who displease or disobey him.
[ShasVa 01/09/2013 Post #1, Page 1, Thread 1]

[Salamanders]
- The Salamanders will fall to Slaanesh, and enjoy burning their victims and have a extreme case of pyromania as a result of their corruption

[ShasVa 02/07/2012 Post #36, Page 2, Thread 1]

I'll do up another revised backstory soon. Possibly Vulkan and the Salamanders. I actually like them turning to Slaanesh - perhaps as a way to get back at the DE!
Beta fluff for the corrupted Salamanders has them being ambushed Isstvan V style by the Dark Eldar, and Vulkan gives into Slaanesh' promises of getting him out of the rut. They proceed to murder the DE in the name of Slaanesh, but are well and truly corrupted before they can turn against She Who Thirsts. Soon enough, the Salamanders are turned into pleasure-seeking pyromaniacs. They all enjoy burning things too!
[ShasVa 02/20/2013 Post #42, Page 2, Thread 1]

Sounds good. You could play up the sado-masochistic side of things and maybe have particular Slaaneshi Sallies into branding and scarification, for themselves and for prisoners.
[Olisredan 02/20/2013 Post #43, Page 2, Thread 1]

Revised fluff for Vulkan and the Salamanders
Vulkan's fluff goes the same way as the canon until a certain point, which will be explained below...
Vulkan and the Salamanders had been present on Isstvan V, as their aid was requested by the Emperor to quell Guilliman's rebellion before it reached Terra. However like his brother loyalist legions, Vulkan and his sons were caught in the massacre committed by the Ultramarines. Even with the combined strength of the Salamanders, the Iron Hands, and the War Hounds (World Eaters retain their original name in this alternate story), Guilliman's now-traitorous sons were too numerous and far too strong to defeat. An order of retreat was issued, and orbital bombardments covered the escape of the loyalist legions. Vulkan and Angron escaped, but Ferrus Manus was presumed to have been slain/caught in the bombardment (the truth later, in his fluff).
As if things weren't already bad enough for him, Vulkan received distressing news that Nocturne was under siege by the Dark Eldar. Like lightning he returned to his homeworld, only to find a scene of such carnage that it is believed to have almost broke Vulkan right there and then. He had returned to find his home planet in tatters, with not a single sign of human life to be seen.
Things soon turned even uglier, as the murderous xenos were laying in wait for Vulkan. A large force of Dark Eldar had taken cover and ambushed Vulkan and the Salamanders at their most vulnerable point. Like a black curtain they descended upon the defenders of Nocturne, gleefully taking their lives with their advanced dark weaponry.
In a moment of sheer despair, Vulkan cried out into the air, but his cry was heard by something far more sinister. Slaanesh, the bane of the Dark Eldar, had answered him, and he gave into it's deal of retribution and power. Bestowed with the power of a Chaos God, Vulkan and the Salamanders roared to life, destroying the Dark Eldar like they were insects. The xenos were taken aback by the fury at which the Salamanders assaulted them, perhaps for the first time in millennia instilling something akin to fear in the minds of the Dark Eldar. The Archon leading them ordered a retreat into the Webway, but not a single one of them made it that far. All were slaughtered to the last in the wake of the Salamanders' new and terrible ferocity.
When the slaughter was over and done, Vulkan's pain and loss was no less diminished than it was when he arrived back on Nocturne. The whispers of Slaanesh spoke to him, promising to heal his pain, and assist him in getting revenge on the Imperium for failing to help his people. And so it came to pass that Vulkan, Primarch of the Salamanders, gave himself and his legion over into the service of She Who Thirsts.
The now Slaanesh-worshipping Salamanders have had their pyromania enhanced to the extreme by their patron god. Every legionnaire is branded with a symbol - one that fuses a drake's head with the symbol of Slaanesh itself. The once proud defenders of humanity now take prisoners - whether human or xenos, and brand them with the same symbol as a sign of their perverted pleasure-seeking. Sorcerors of the Salamanders are enhanced with the fires of Slaanesh, and are able to perform horrific acts such as incinerating a victim to ash, or "microwaving" them from the inside-out.
Vulkan himself has become a Daemon Primarch. He is now a gigantic lizard-like daemon, at least 12ft tall. His eyes burn red and pink (Mauve?) with the gleeful intent of sado-masochistic pleasure and murder. No longer does he care for humans as he once did - now he sees them as mere playthings and slaves for the benefit of him and his legion of sadistic traitors.
That is that for Vulkan.
[ShasVa 02/21/2012 Post #44, Page 2, Thread 1]

I can see Iron Hands turning to Nurgle to escape the pain of the loss of their primarch, don't get Salamanders with slaanesh, agree those should be traded out, either for (Emperor forgive me...) the Imperial Fists, or the iron hands (Who originally quest for perfection through bionic improvement but get convinced otherwise.)
BUT I guess the whole Salamander thing ties in with Slaanesh's other followers the Laer, they could even..yes..go the same way with genetically manipluating themselves into snakey people and take up residence on the laer world?
[Roesor 03/12/2012 Post #64, Page 2, Thread 1]

The Salamanders were chosen as Slaanesh followers, because they would share a common enemy with She Who Thirsts - the Dark Eldar (and Eldar in general). Following their GH backstory, the Salamanders are savagely attacked by the DE, and Slaanesh rescues them (though at a fatal price, of course). With their new powers, the traitor XVIII legion will annihilate the Eldar (both kins, it makes no difference), whilst reveling in their newfound depravity.
[ShasVa 03/13/2012 Post #66, Page 2, Thread 1]

I've become aware that Guilliman referred to at least four legions as "the dauntless few" that he was arrogantly certain he could win a war with. I believe they were Russ, Dorn, Sanguinius, and Ferrus Manus. I was giving thought to having them turn to Chaos, and worship a different god. I was thinking that Ferrus Manus could turn to Tzeentch (magic plus technology is a dangerous mix) in place of Corax, who could now bond with Konrad Curze, and be part of the reinforcements that save Terra from Guilliman's all-out siege. Sanguinius would still go with Khorne, Vulkan with Slaanesh, and Dorn with Nurgle. The Dark Angels on Lion's side would still go evil, and the ones on Luther's side would still remain loyal.
[ShasVa 04/27/2012 Post #131, Page 6, Thread 1]

But I think Ferrus Mannus and Leman Russ (you wrote Vulkan, but I assume you meant Russ?) would be best flipped.
[Cormac Airt 04/27/2012 Post #132, Page 6, Thread 1]

Salamanders (worships Slaanesh)
Dorn, Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus, and Vulkan have all (naturally) turned into Daemon Primarchs, each embodying their god and their doctrine (Ferrus Manus being an abhorent mix of technology and chaos magic, for example). They do not directly lead their legions now, but can be summoned into physical space if the situation requires it. It is rumoured that they are direct links to their chosen god, and that defeating them could directly affect the god whose power is tied to them. As hopeful as this would be to the Imperium, it has never been substantially proven to be fact and, for now at least, is just mere rumour.
[ShasVa 04/28/2012 Post #134, Page 6, Thread 1]

So Russ is the only one of the Dauntless Few to resist Guilliman's enticements? That's interesting. And if Russ is taken out of Guilliman's select group, I could see him choosing Vulkan as the next best thing. Sorry, earlier I thought you accidentally wrote Vulkan and meant Russ, because you were talking about the four Primarchs of the Dauntless Few becoming champions of the four gods.
[Cormac Airt 04/29/2012 Post #135, Page 6, Thread 1]

Vulkan turning traitor seemed to fit well, and since they really don't like Dark Eldar, it was fitting that he turn to Slaanesh, and become a perverted fire-breathing lizard daemon. The fire Vulkan breathes induces an excess of both pleasure and pain simultaneously.
[ShasVa 04/29/2012 Post #136, Page 6, Thread 1]

A Salamanders vs. Raven Guard grudge match could work. With the Raven Guard's guerrilla tactics coming undone in the face of the Salamanders' own "BURN. EVERYTHING." tactics. Make it a jungle world where the Raven Guard's hit and run movements cause the Salamanders to stop trying to face them conventionally and simply burn everything to the ground. Due to severe orbital losses, the Raven Guard are trapped on a burning world. They could be saved in the same way as they were at Isstvan in the canon universe. The battle could be the result of Vulkan's attempts to sway Corax to Guilliman's cause. Corax refuses, and the Legions war against each other.
[Cormac Airt 05/01/2012 Post #147, Page 6, Thread 1]

RG vs turned Sallies on a jungle world. Sounds good. We could throw in some subtle 'Nam vibes if the Sallies are going down the 'scorched earth' route.
[Olisredan 05/01/2012 Post #148, Page 6, Thread 1]

If in this Universe the Raven Guard are numerous, the Nam scenario makes more sense with reversed roles, with the Sallies playing the VC. Unfortunately that does not fit well with either legion's canon tactics.
[Quixus 05/01/2012 Post #149, Page 6, Thread 1]

The latter could also give way to Corax facing off against Vulkan - loyalist guerilla soldier against fire-breathing pleasure lizard. Whether one dies/is banished now or later, it'd make for a great fight. Even if Vulkan won, the Raven Guard would be numerous, and could swarm the Salamanders and force them into retreat.
[ShasVa 05/01/2012 Post #151, Page 7, Thread 1]

Just imagine - Corax and Vulkan duelling amongst burning trees, flames and firestorms all around, Raven Guard bodies carpeting the forest floor, Salamanders engaging the survivors throughout the vicinity. It'd be a bloody affair for sure. Of course there'd be the fight in orbit to begin with - boarding actions and ships crashing into the planet below setting the scene. It kinda feels like this stuff writes itself.
[Olisredan 05/01/2012 Post #152, Page 7, Thread 1]

Corax's limber form swaying in and out of combat, his darting attacks capturing his Legion's hit and run tactics in a far more personalized manner, as the cumbersome form of Vulkan relentlessly moves forward screaming "BURN WITH ME, BROTHER!" The Salamander Legion rushes forward into the Raven Guard's final sanctuary, pockets of Raven Guards and booby traps reaping terrible losses, yet inciting no more reaction than insane laughter. The battle climaxes when Vulkan slams home a powerful hammer strike into Corax's midriff, driving him powerfully into a collapsing, burning building from which he does not emerge. Following this, the pockets of resistance teeter off and slowly quiet down as the waves of Salamanders take their toll. Vulkan roars with pleasure over this victory, but it is quickly soured when a quick survey of the battlefield reveals that there are far less Raven Guard corpses than there should be, Corax's among them. His soured mood turns to seething rage when, hours later, he sees black ships rising up and away from the planet. Many of his sons felt this ire when his own orbital fleets failed to capture them. This hatred will burn within the Primarch forever.
[Cormac Airt 05/01/2012 Post #155, Page 7, Thread 1]

- First Blood at Miral - Concerned with the state of Guilliman's mind, several of his brothers convene on Miral to assess his allegiance. To their dismay the combined force of Iron Hands, Emperors Children, Salamanders, Alpha Legion and War Hounds find that the descending Ultramarines have no intention of talking. The traitors assault the planetside Imperial forces and cause confusion amongst the fleet in orbit. In the ensuing chaos Ferrus Manus is mistakenly slain by Fulgrim and Vulkan disappears.
- The Namn Massacre - The Raven Guard are ambushed by the treacherous Salamanders once Corax refuses Vulkan's attempts to bring him to Guilliman's cause. Vulkan and his legion of Slaanesh worshippers, in the galaxy at large for the first time since Vulkan's vanishing, massacre the Raven Guard on the Jungle world of Namn, having forced them planetside. At the time, the fate of Corax was unknown but later reports state his use of Primarch Project data in rebuilding his legion to above full strength. The Legion and their primarch vows "Nevermore" to the atrocities committed by the treacherous Salamanders, swearing to halt their nefarious ways.
- The Siege of Terra - The Emperor's Children, the Iron Warriors, the War Hounds and the Word Bearers face off against the Lion's Dark Angels, the Salamanders, the Imperial Fists, and the Blood Angels. At the culmination of the Siege El'Jonson is confronted by Fulgrim. Unfortunately, Fulgrim dies at the hands of the Lion, valiant though the fight was. Bloodied by his brutal battle with his brother, El'Jonson and the Emperor duel inside the walls of the Imperial Palace but before the Emperor can end his wayward son the Blood Angels and the Salamanders break into the compound. Soundly beaten by the Emperor, covered by Sanguinius and Vulkan, the Lion retreats. With heavy Loyalist reinforcements en route, it is his only choice.
[Olisredan 05/20/2012 Post #233, Page 10, Thread 1]

In regard to Vulkan's backstory (waaay back on page two), can we alter it? I would find that Vulkan being captured (and had despicable things done to him) at Issvan, who escapes from Guilliman not long after, a perfect opportunity for Guilliman to subtly corrupt Vulkan. That way there is a much stronger narrative for him to turn when the Dark Eldar swing by and provide him the opportunity to turn. With the subsequent Namn Massacre, it would certainly add to the arc of Vulkan's story.
[Olisredan 05/21/2012 Post 3236, Page 10, Thread 1]

And it could easily tie in as a variant of canon. According to canon, Vulkan disappears in an explosion on Istvaan, but returns later. Much speculation and so forth.
In the Guilliman Heresy, Vulkan disappears in an explosion on Istvaan, but returns later. So much different!
But seriously, have Guilliman and his forces capture an incapacipated Vulkan following a major explosion. Guilliman corrupts the Salamander Primarch, who vows to turn his Legion to Guilliman's cause. Guilliman releases his brother Primarch, who returns to the Salamander Legion. Not long after, Slaaneshimanders.
[Cormac Airt 05/21/2012 Post #237, Page 10, Thread 1]

Fulgrim confronts Guilliman at the walls of the Imperial Palace, much like the Sanguinius/Horus face-off in Canon on the Vengeful Spirit (but with obvious differences); Guilliman slays Fulgrim after a hard fight, suffering several wounds in the duel and pushes on into the Palace grounds; the Emperor faces the bloodied Guilliman on the steps of the Inner Palace and proceeds to kill his lost son (also being wounded in the process); Sanguinius arrives with Vulkan and breaks the Emperor's back (and also possibly burning him badly) in the ensuing fight; Sanguinius and Vulkan are driven off by Perturabo and Angron, recovering the crippled leader of mankind; Magnus, having arrived too late to alter the Siege, regenerates the Emperor, leaving Magnus severely weakened; Magnus is placed upon the throne in Malcadors stead, a withered remnant of his former glory.
[Olisredan 05/23/2012 Post #262, Page 11, Thread 1]

Onboard with the following:
- Sanguinius and Vulkan attacking the Emperor after he destroys Guilliman
[ShasVa 05/24/2012 Post #279, Page 12, Thread 1]

Vulkan - Turned traitor, became a Daemon Prince (Slaanesh)
[Olisredan 05/29/2012 Post #300, Page 12, Thread 1]

Everything about the SoT would happen exactly as written, up until near the end of the Emperor-VS-Guilliman fight. Perhaps Sanguinius and Vulkan arrive early, allowing Guilliman a chance to escape Terra. The Emperor is not mortally wounded but is quite exhausted, and cannot fend off two Primarchs. This is when Angron and Perturabo arrive, fighting and then chasing off their traitor brothers.
[ShasVa 06/02/2012 Post #338, Page 14, Thread 1]

The Lion is ambitious, and sees himself as being a better candidate for Warmaster than Guilliman. When he turns, he decides to try something drastic to seal his rise as the true Chosen of Chaos: lay siege to Terra. It's bold, and if he pulls it off he'll end the war in one stroke. And he's a strategic genius, even among his brother Primarchs. He can pull it off, though his judgement is rather clouded at this time. He gets on his side Sanguinius, Rogal Dorn, and Vulkan. They don't swear to him over Guilliman, they just agree on the merits of such an assault. Dorn feels he can get through the Imperial Palace fortifications quickly, Sanguinius believes his Legion can cut through any resistances with ease, and Vulkan thinks it'll be fun. Guilliman, on the other hand, is opposed to it. He doesn't feel that his rebellion is quite ready for such a move. Whatever his opinion, however, those in support of an assault on Terra go through with it anyways. Guilliman and his Legion are not a part of it, however the Lion's Angels, the Blood Angels, a the Imperial Fists, and the Salamanders do take part. While the Lion and Fulgrim go at it, Dorn and Vulkan tag-team the Emperor. The Emperor forces them into retreat by the time the Lion reaches him. The Emperor is hurt, and the Lion is a less-powerful Warmaster. The Lion succeeds in breaking the Emperor's back, but with his brother Primarchs in retreat, and his Legion being surrounded and swarmed by returning loyalists, the Lion is forced to retreat as well. It takes the Blood Angels cutting through to them that actually allows him to make his escape.
The Guilliman Heresy would have quite a few more decisive moments that would involve any range of military elements. The Namn Massacre, for instance, was solely between the Raven Guard and Salamanders. I think there should be far more of those kinds of events, where the fates of Legions and others are decided by what would have otherwise been minor events.

[Cormac Airt 06/03/12 Post #341, Page 14, Thread 1]

So I think the Chapter system should exist in the Guilliman Heresy with the Blood Angels, Iron Hands, Salamanders, the Lion's Angels, and the Omega Legion. They could exist much as canon Warbands. The Salamanders were so heavily damaged at the end of the Heresy that to break them up further would have weakened their military potential to the point of uselessness. As such, the Salamanders still exist as a single, undivided force.
[Cormac Airt 06/03/2012 Post #346, Page 14, Thread 1]

When they [Blood Angels] see Dorn and Vulkan take their Legions out (and speaking of this, I think the Salamanders massive depletion of numbers could happen during this assault), Sanguinius, having just finished taking out the Lunar Defenses, takes his Legion to Terra.
[Cormac Airt 06/03/2012 Post #350, Page 14, Thread 1]

The Iron Hands and Salamanders are hit the worst as Isstvan*, and it is this great tragedy that causes their eventual betrayal of the Emperor. The Salamander Primarch Vulkan disappears in a major inferno, and their Legion withdraws believing him to be lost. In truth, he was captured by the Ultramarines. Guilliman takes his brother before the altars of the Gods, and moves to sacrifice him for greater favor. But he is stopped. One of the Chaos Gods, Slaanesh, sees something in Vulkan that . . . appeals to him. She Who Thirsts demands that Guilliman give Vulkan to her, so that he can make of him her servant. Guilliman concedes, and leaves Vulkan in her grasp. When Vulkan awakens from unconsciousness, he is changed. Greatly so. With sinister, sibilant laughter, he will declare himself and his Legion for Guilliman's cause, and then he will depart for his Legion to make good on his word. Like many Primarchs, the Legion of the Salamanders will look to theirs with such devotion that any resistance they might have had to his change in allegiance is easily overcome, and so the Slaaneshimanders are born.
Perhaps when the rumor spreads that Guilliman has fallen, many Primarchs demand an audience, Fulgrim, Ferrus Manus, Alpharius/Omegon, and Vulkan among them. Choosing a world close to the Ultramar realm, they land their Legions to call Guilliman to task. Guilliman's response? You didn't bring enough Space Marines. And there we could have the very first conflict in the Guilliman Heresy.
Sadly, I'm having trouble coming up with a reason for Vulkan's turning to Slaanesh beyond being in her grip kind of just does that to you.
[Cormac Airt 06/27/2012 Post #460, Page 19, Thread 1]

I'm not sure how this could possibly help in creating the fluff for the Sallies. However, maybe, Slanneshi sees something in him. Maybe a type of passion that has yet to 'reveal' itself. I was thinking something along the lines of yin/yang where there are evil in good and vice-versa. Maybe deep down in Vulkan's heart, he has a strong passion to 'cleanse' everything in flames to the point where he enjoys it. Slanneshi somehow found a small crack in this 'pleasure' and, well, played around with it for it to manifest. You could have that when She who Thirst enters Vulkan, Vulkan still was in a coma and that he was having a dream where he murders thousands burning them alive. When he wakes up, he was somehow back at his Homeworld but it was somehow different as the dark eldars invaded and upon seeing his sons dying to these aliens, slanneshi offers him a choice to choose.
[DarkLiege 06/27/2012 Post #461, Page 19, Thread 1]

For Vulkan . . . meh. I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time getting Slaaneshi Vulkan in my mind. Before and after the fact are easy, but the switch is proving hard for me, and most ideas, whether my own or not, just don't seem to fit.
[Cormac Airt 06/27/2012 Post #462, Page 19, Thread 1]

Maybe she[Slaanesh] made him[Vulkan] an offer he couldn't refuse? Perhaps not something about him personally, as I think he'd be too savvy to fall for that ploy, but maybe something to do with his legion? Maybe he was shown the future that doomed his sons? Could he have been convinced they would perish to a man if he did not accept her offer for help? I dunno, just throwing out some thoughts.
[Olisredan 06/27/2012 Post #463, Page 19, Thread 1]

While in a coma, slanneshi visits him whispering secrets into Vulkan's ear. One of these secrets/lies are the deaths of his sons. Yet being the humanaitain he is, Vulkan disbleifs this. However, Slanneshi shows Vulkan a Future where his sons are, in fact, Doomed. Slanneshi shows Vulkan the past , reveal secrets that even the emperor would have avoided answering. though it all, Vulkan was confused and that was when slanneshi brings up the issue of his brothers, the 2nd and 11th Primarchs. Upon seeing these 'visions', Vulkan starts questioning his father's Knowlegde and his quest to unite humanity. Somewhere along this line.
[DarkLiege 06/27/2012 Post #464, Page 19, Thread 1]

I like the bit about him being shown 'secrets' of the Emperor (real or otherwise), and that primarchs number two and number eleven are brought up. Considering their demise in this universe is not a secret (although I see it as a topic that isn't discussed much on grounds of shame and the like), it'd likely be a trigger for an emotion for Vulkan to feel at the right time in his turning rather than a revelation or something.
What I'm not so keen on is the coma bit. The predicament sounds very similar to Horus' when 'coma' is mentioned - I think merely having the beleaguered primarch, strapped to a torture table (with a bonus electrocution feature) is enough. Slaanesh comes to him when his will dips from a defiant state to being stoically resigned to death and, bit by bit, gently corrupts him. Then, the farther along he is, the more he likes the ol' zap attack (jumping off from a point where he's asking if that is all they got) - this is, of course, amongst other tortures visited upon him. Then comes the point where she shows him the Salamanders' doomed future and, perhaps after some subtle coercion, Vulkan agrees to be her prince if she provides him the means to save his sons. The deal is done and Vulkan, about to break out (and presumably having killed the torturer), is released, much to his puzzlement. His escape is unhindered and soon after he makes his way back to Nocturne (or the legion - whichever works out best).
[Olisredan 06/27/2012 Post #465, Page 19, Thread 1]

The whole 'Vulkan in a coma' thing came to me from what Cormac Arts said: Vulkan was dragged over to the Altar to be a sacrificed but with Slannesh seeing 'potential' in Vulkan he tells Guilliman to back off, which he did. It is up to this point that we get to 'make up' our own event as to what happen. However, Art continues to write:
QUOTE
When Vulkan awakens from unconsciousness, he is changed.
This part is what made me think of the whole coma thing.
Overall, I find the idea that Vulkan is strapped down and will 'put to the test' is rather a nice change in pace. I could see Vulkan opens his eyes and smiling in a sinister way while say "Is this all you got? It does not come close to the pain I've suffered though." *Queue Sinister Laugher* Maybe just like Fulgrim was in the Canon, Vulkan could be 'possessed' as well.
[Dark Liege 06/28/2012 Post #466, Page 19, Thread 1]

Anyway, on with the show! Glad you all like the Iron Hands write-up, I was rather proud of it.
As for Vulkan, I definitely don't mean to have him go through a coma-vision like Horus did. When I said 'unconscious' it's because our earlier remarks on him went along the lines of "Massive explosion, disappears, was really captured and turned to Slaanesh." Well, he's a Primarch, the most stoic of them all, and I don't think Guilliman was anywhere around to hold him, so I went with "explosion knocked him unconscious, where it killed all of his sons around him." So Guilliman takes a prone form up to the altars. What happens within the altar, Hell if I can think of anything. But when he comes out, he's no longer unconscious and he's got a new allegiance.
As for the ideas on what Slaanesh proposes, I don't like the idea of "all your sons will die if you don't." Because it's Vulkan, Primarch of the Salamanders. The guy who would be most likely of any one of his brothers to say "Okay, we'll die then. FOR THE EMPEROR." Even if it was their homeworld, or entire Sectors, they would choose death, I think. No, if we go that route, that if you don't, people will die, we need to have Slaanesh up the ante.
And I think I might have it. The Emperor. She'll show Vulkan a vision of the duel between the Emperor and the Lion, saying to him that the Lion will chafe under Guilliman's reign, and will strike out at the Emperor without him. All of Chaos will strengthen him for that duel, and the effects will leave a nearly dead Emperor, unable to affect the course of Humanity forevermore. But. If Vulkan swears himself and his Legion to her, than Slaanesh will not give the Lion his dark powers at that eventful duel. And the Lion will not succeed. The Emperor will live, and will strike for Guilliman, and will kill him. And Humanity will continue to thrive under him.
And with that being the stakes, Vulkan will agree. What he won't know is that it's not really a victory against Chaos, not in their Godly minds. A living Emperor means more hope for Humanity. More hope for Humanity means more despair when they crush it. Slaanesh just wants to enjoy the torture of Humanity a bit longer, and the Emperor can do that. And so Vulkan will swear himself to Guilliman's cause, declare himself and his Legion traitors to the Emperor and the Imperium, because he knows that it's the only way for the Emperor to live past the rebellion.
The idea definitely needs some work, as re-reading it made me think of the canon Alpha Legion and the Cabal, but in reverse. But it's just the kind of stakes that would need to be involved if someone like Vulkan is going to choose betrayal to secure it.
We also have a "possessed" Rogal Dorn, so another possessed Primarch shouldn't be.
[Cormac Airt 06/28/2012 Post #469, Page 19, Thread 1]

Heh, I knew there could be something a little more compelling than Vulkan's sons. Who more so than his father and the Imperium itself? It kinda reminds me of the choice given to Alpharius and Omegon in Legion.
[Olisredan 06/28/2012 Post #470, Page 19, Thread 1]

A little too much so, I'm afraid. So here's my slight revisement of Slaanesh's reasoning and the Salamander's paths and goals:
She shows the Vulkan a Chaos-enfused Lion battling the Emperor, and being killed. In the process, the Emperor is so badly wounded that he must forever be interred in the Golden Throne. The Imperium withers away over the millennia. However, the Lion has this strength because he has the utmost support of the Chaos Gods. Slaanesh offers to withdraw her support of the Lion in that battle, but only if Vulkan will swear himself and his Legion over to him. These are the facts brought before him, and given this scenario Vulkan will choose to save his father and the Imperium, by sacrificing himself and his Legion. What Slaanesh doesn't tell him is that, while the Emperor would indeed survive that battle against the Lion well enough, he wouldn't fare so well against Guilliman later on, where she would give full support. But Slaanesh also realizes the danger of the Thousand Sons, a danger that Tzeentch's plots were supposed to have nullified. And so she gives Vulkan a command, that he must hunt down and burn the Thousand Sons from all existence. Therefore, her ultimate goal is still to vanquish the Emperor of Mankind. She tricks Vulkan into thinking that by saving the Emperor from the Lion he will live on to guide the Imperium, all the while knowing that the true threat to the Emperor is Guilliman itself.
And so Vulkan and his Salamanders go on the prowl, forever seeking their brothers' scents. They do succeed in decimating the Thousand Sons, bringing their already low numbers even lower. They were so close to succeeding that even the Alpha Legion decided to take a hand, and together with the Raven Guard conjured a plot to lure the Salamanders to a jungle world, where the tactics of the Raven Guard can keep them occupied long enough to get the Thousand Sons out of danger.

Awesome, I'm glad we were finally able to come up with something to get push Vulkan over the edge. Threaten to take away something that matters more to him than his own life, or that of his sons.
What really makes this interesting is that Vulkan and the Salamanders are part of the Siege of Terra. They are in fact one of the Legions that pulls the Lion out. Now they have an ulterior motive. They want him to withdraw so that he won't succeed, while telling him he should withdraw because he won't. Also, Vulkan is part of Guilliman's Dauntless Few, and owes their allegiance to him in this rebellion. And yet, if Slaanesh convinces Vulkan that it's the Lion who is the true threat to the Emperor, than they won't believe that Guilliman is. So they'll be fighting alongside those who they believe are doomed to fail, taking up a cause they already know is false. Never knowing until it was far too late that they had been lied to, that they have become far too corrupted to ever turn back.
Would Vulkan look at the future of 40k and smile? His wish was to have the Emperor survive the atrocities of the Guilliman Heresy, and he does. However, his name will be blackened and his sons will continue to fight against the Imperium for thousands of years. But despite this, he won. His goal was met and he succeeded. No matter the outcome, no matter what happened to him and his sons, he won.
Or would he smile? Maybe his soul by then will have become so corrupted that whatever his original intent was is gone, replaced only with a hatred and desire to inflict pain.
[Cormac Airt 06/28/2012 Post #471, Page 19, Thread 1]

Sounds pretty good to me - it slots in quite well and makes Vulkan less of a pawn and much more of a player in this drama. I absolutely approve. As to his mental state ten thousand years down the line? I'd like to think he still clings to his original ideal (I'm reading through Soul Hunter atm) and would rather prey on the other traitor legions. His sons may or may not also hold to the same mindset, maybe there’d be the usual outcasts that think he’s a sentimental fool or whatever.
[Olisredan 06/28/2012 Post #472, Page 19, Thread 1]

Leave it ambiguous. We have no idea how he truly feels. Put enough in there for people to feel sympathetic, and enough for people to feel like he's succumbed to it, depending on what they want to see.
[Cormac Airt 06/29/2012 Post #473, Page 19, Thread 1]

Instead the Emperor is wounded and Sanguinius (and Vulkan) are driven back by the Imperial forces (well, I think it'd partly be due to Vulkan deemed his hidden agenda complete on Terra and 'persuading' Sanguinius to go). This is not to say Sanguinius and Vulkan have it all their way, not at all, they are fighting the Emperor after all. I'd be inclined to injure them in the fight to some degree, otherwise the Emperor will appear toothless.
[Olisredan 09/20/2012 Post #518, Page 21, Thread 1]

But here's my thinking. In canon, Emperor's Children are the Noise Marines. There are other Slaaneshi Marines, but Emperor's Children are THE Slaaneshi Marines. But you never see non-Slaaneshi Emperor's Children. You'll never see one running around screaming for Khorne as he takes that perfect skull. You'll never see a Thousand Son lovingly gifting a population with horrendous diseases, or a Death Guard exploring the highest levels of ecstatic agony, or a World Eater tossing bolts of lightning out of his hands.
What if that's not the case in the Guilliman Heresy? One thing that seems to stick out with our alternate telling is that things don't go as Chaos had wanted. We have the Horus Heresy being the primary goal, as much as it was in canon, but in ours Chaos fails. What happens after they fail is their attempt to recover as much of their initiative and momentum as they can. The chosen Legions of the Chaos Pantheon successfuly thwart their advances, and they go after other Legions to try and grab what they can. When Horus stays out of their reach, they scramble for as many replacements as they can get, one of which fails early on. So what if the final conclusion isn't as clear cut as it is in canon? Yes, in the Guilliman Heresy the Chaos Gods succeeded in creating a Heresy and have, each of them, a pet traitor legion. But maybe they didn't get them stock and barrel like they do in canon. Maybe the four traitor legions sworn to a Chaos God weren't the only targets of their soon-to-be patron, and maybe they weren't targeted by only one Chaos God. Maybe the four Legions chosen weren't chosen because each God saw in one of them the means for them to corrupt it, but because the pantheon as a whole saw all four as the likeliest to fall in their revised conspiracy. But who gets what comes entirely down to which Chaos God is able to best succeed first. Maybe Khorne didn't try for the Blood Angels alone while Nurgle tried for the Imperial Fists alone.Maybe the Imperial Fists, Blood Angels, Iron Hands, and Salamanders got hit at the same time from four different directions. And while inevitably it concluded with one God, one Legion, maybe the fall-out was a bit more muddled. If a God got a Primarch, he got the Legion. But with all the other Gods focusing on the same Legion, perhaps the God that gets the Primarch gets only most of the Legion.
When Slaanesh lays claim to Vulkan's prone form, maybe Tzeentch whispered to a Captain who was once a Librarian. The end result being that, while you would never see an Emperor's Children Berzerker in canon, maybe you could see a Salamander one in the Guilliman Heresy.
So this is what I'm suggesting, and I have a few ideas to get the ball rolling if anyone wants to take it up: For each of the four Chaos Legions chosen by a Chaos God, there are minor factions given over to the other three. Way I see it, they'd be dominated by a Chaos Champion, like Lucius or Typhon in canon. A Warband powerful enough to stay alive despite the animosity of their own Legion.
Beyond this, I've been thinking of the Siege of Terra, and its participants. At the moment, I can only remember the Traitor Legions involved, and one of the Loyalists: Dark Angels, Salamanders, Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and the lonely Emperor's Children Legion. What we have is Fulgrim and the Lion duelling, the Lion losing against the Emperor, and the other Legions dragging him to safety. The Blood Angels are offworld, but invade Terra to aid in the retreat.
So the Siege of Terra would be, by this reckoning: The Iron Warriors, the Emperor's Children and Word Bearers vs the Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Salamanders and Imperial Fists.
So the actual battle on Terra would probably be two-fold. The Blood Angels rampage all across the globe, tying up the military resources so that the Dark Angels, backed up by the Salamanders, can assault the fortress. The Word Bearers could move to thwart the Blood Angels, perhaps even having an inconclusive duel between Lorgar and Sanguinius that both walk away from, while the Iron Warriors and Emperor's Children guard the Emperor in his Palace-Fortress. The Chaos-enfused Lion duels Fulgrim, killing him. At some point, the Phalanx finally gets close enough to Terra to teleport the Primarch and a cadre of his elite Templars directly onto the position of Vulkan and the Lion. To find that the Lion has been cast from the ramparts above, broken but alive. Upon the ramparts, the Emperor, bloodied but alive as well, will pick himself up as Perturabo hurries to him. Raging that he got to the fight too late, Dorn and Vulkan will drag the Lion back to their forces, and organize a hasty retreat. Many Blood Angel companies will simply refuse to retreat, too much in thrall with the bloodshed they cause. It will be months before the last one is killed.
[Cormac Airt 09/20/2012 Post #523, Page 21, Thread 1]

What if Inwit came under attack? Say, from the Pyromanders, with Vulkan actively seeking to corrupt Dorn? I'm not entirely sure where this idea is going but we need a cause and effect that draws the Fists away from Terra. It could be a convenient way to tie in the whole Fortress of the Dead malarky - maybe the Necropolis is made from dead Inwits, the victims of the lost war against the Pyromanders?
[Olisredan 09/21/2012 Post #524, Page 21, Thread 1]

But if we make it the Pyromanders (and I like that nickname so much better than my Slaamanders), wouldn't there be some enmity between them? If we go with Dorn and Vulkan kind of buddying up for the Siege, I don't know. And a Slaaneshi Legion causing the Fists to switch to Nurgle? What if we go with rebellion?
[Cormac Airt 09/21/2012 Post #525, Page 21, Thread 1]

Replacing the Pyromanders with Nurgle cultists is a good move, not least because we don't want to muddy the waters of who is turning whom.
[Olisredan 09/21/2012 Post #526, Page 22, Thread 1]

With the Salamanders (are they now calling themselves the Pyromanders??) being Primarch-less by M41, as I would hope, I was thinking of having Vel'conabecome their leader. He'd be the Sorceror Lord of the traitor legion, and would command the psychic powers of "perverted flame" (fire mixed with Slaaneshi power) against the hated Imperial foes. He delights in torturing his victims by burning them to a crisp and then regenerating their form, only to repeat the process over and over.
[ShasVa 09/23/2012 Post #535, Page 22, Thread 1]

That being said, we also need to look at why Vulkan is out of the picture. If he becomes a Daemon Primarch, he's immortal. Can't be killed, just sent back to the Warp.
Wait, wait. What if they don't send him back? What if they trap him here, in the real universe? The Imperial Heralds are the anti-Daemon force in the Imperium. What if they try something that the Grey Knights never did? Imprison high-ranking Daemons.
Place them in areas they can't get out of, and can't influence lesser minds. Perhaps by having psyker blanks be on constant guard over their cells. And their prisons guarded by the Legion of Imperial Heralds.
It could be a gambit of surprising success. The capture of Vulkan their greatest achievement.
[Cormac Airt 09/25/2012 Post #548, Page 22, Thread 1]

Salamanders - Falls to chaos, worshipers of Tzeentch - Flamers and all that. Users of sorcery. Instead of birds, think raptors, and lizards.
[Insacrum 09/26/2012 Post #554, Page 23, Thread 1]

The Salamanders are led by a Legion Commander, but there is a Forgefather who operates independent from his Legion and strives to locate where the Imperial Heralds are keeping his Primarch.
[Cormac Airt 09/26/2012 Post #555, Page 23, Thread 1]

- Vulkan: ascended to Slaanesh Daemonhood, possibly banished by the Raven Guard
[ShasVa 09/27/2012 Post #568, Page 23, Thread 1]

Salamanders I have the most trouble with. Part of me wonders if we should just combine the looks of the Salamanders with the Legion of the Damned and be done with it. Well . . . okay, I have a visual maybe. Instead of the head of the firedrake from the side, see it from the front, nose down. The Legion of the Damned look, the flame motif specifically, could still be there. A Legion that burns with a ghostly blaze (perhaps pink in hue). The firedrake can bear the mark of Slaanesh branded into its skull. Put an eight-pointed star behind it and zippadeedoodah.
[Cormac Airt 10/01/2012 Post #581, Page 24, Thread 1]

Sanguinius and Vulkan - The Fallen Angel and the All-Consuming Blaze. Sanguinius and Vulkan I am having issues with. In canon, they're the two most caring of Primarchs. The only ones to be truly benevolent to mortals. What does that leave you with if you take away the legends of their benevolence, and replace them with these horrors? Would they be seen as no different than the canon Angron and Fulgrim? Vulkan is the ultimate hero of the soldier, like Angron now is. Sanguinius has quite literally had his place taken by our Fulgrim. Maybe that's it, then. Angron and Vulkan, Fulgrim and Sanguinius. Canon or alternate, these four Primarchs quite simply swap identities. I'm not being lazy with this, I'm trying to follow it to a logical conclusion. They may all follow distinctive paths separate from each other, but their destinations all appear to be the same. Sanguinius is either the daemon Angron or the loyal Fulgrim. Vulkan is either the loyal Angron, or the daemon Fulgrim. Angron is either the daemon Sanguinius, or the loyal Vulkan. Fulgrim is either the loyal Sanguinius, or the daemon Vulkan. Their fates are inextricably tied, it would seem.
Vulkan and Sanguinius are either present or mid-gamers [to the Siege of Macragge]. They show up just after the opening conflict to push it back into Guilliman's favor. So what is that? Raven Guard, War Hounds, and Alpha Legion vs. the Ultramarines, Salamanders, Blood Angels, and Imperial Fists. When the Emperor lands with his Custodian force, the remaining Traitor Legions make their move. The Salamanders and Blood Angels strike out at the flanks of the Imperial fleets, while launching the Legion down. The Salamanders reinforce Guilliman's Malignant Fortress while the Blood Angels go hunting for the Emperor.
[Cormac Airt 10/13/2012 Post #637, Page 26, Thread 1]

Salamanders: pink/mauve drake head with imposed Chaos Star or Slaanesh icon
[ShasVa 10/14/2012 Post #640, Page 26, Thread 1]

Color piece ideas:
- Corax having a Namn flashback of Vulkan and burning forests and men
- Vulkan's perspective when being corrupted by Slaanesh at Miral
[Cormac Airt 10/17/2012 Post #664, Page 27, Thread 1]

The one I proposed of the Salamanders is exactly the same. Change the sideways pointed Drake head to forward pointing and add the Slaanesh icon on the forehead. And of course fire coming out of nostrils, etc.
[Cormac Airt 11/02/2012 Post #701, Page 29, Thread 1]

The Daemon Primarchs are still alive and kicking, though Vulkan is MIA.
[Cormac Airt 11/05/2012 Post #704, Page 29, Thread 1]

Guilliman Heresy Thread 2

- First Blood at Miral - Concerned with the state of Guilliman's mind, several of his brothers convene on Miral to assess his allegiance. To their dismay the combined force of Iron Hands, Emperors Children, Salamanders, Alpha Legion and War Hounds find that the descending Ultramarines have no intention of talking. The traitors assault the planetside Imperial forces and cause confusion amongst the fleet in orbit. In the ensuing chaos Ferrus Manus is mistakenly slain by Fulgrim and Vulkan disappears.
- The Namn Massacre - The Raven Guard are ambushed by the treacherous Salamanders once Corax refuses Vulkan's attempts to bring him to Guilliman's cause. Vulkan and his legion of Slaanesh worshippers, in the galaxy at large for the first time since Vulkan's vanishing, massacre the Raven Guard on the Jungle world of Namn, having forced them planetside. At the time, the fate of Corax was unknown but later reports state his use of Primarch Project data in rebuilding his legion to above full strength. The Legion and their primarch vows "Nevermore" to the atrocities committed by the treacherous Salamanders, swearing to halt their nefarious ways.
- The Siege of Terra - The Emperor's Children, the Iron Warriors, the War Hounds and the Word Bearers face off against the Lion's Dark Angels, the Salamanders, the Imperial Fists, and the Blood Angels. At the culmination of the Siege El'Jonson is confronted by Fulgrim. Unfortunately, Fulgrim dies at the hands of the Lion, valiant though the fight was. Bloodied by his brutal battle with his brother, El'Jonson and the Emperor duel inside the walls of the Imperial Palace but before the Emperor can end his wayward son the Blood Angels and the Salamanders break into the compound. Soundly beaten by the Emperor, covered by Sanguinius and Vulkan, the Lion retreats. With heavy Loyalist reinforcements en route, it is his only choice.
XVIII - Salamanders - Vulkan is captured early on in the Heresy and is turned to Slaanesh whilst being tortured. Upon his return to his Legion, he spreads the corruption to his sons. Vulkan goes on to fight the Emperor in the Lion's Siege of Terra, while Nocturne is devastated by loyalists later, in retaliation.
[Olisredan 12/09/2012 Post #1, Page 1, Thread 2]

It should be other things that make their allegiances so well known. In some downloaded Dawn of War badges there's a Slaaneshi flag that's basically a pinkish fire with a few of the fiery . . . branches? rise up to form the icon of Slaanesh. Rather fitting for the Salamanders, no? Since Chaos is supposed to be ornate, the Salamander trim can be fashioned in the shape of fire that shifts and moves, dances like true flames. And in the flickering shapes, images can be seen. Horrible things, much too terrible to repeat. But certain images are often repeated. Draconic faces, tormented bodies, twisting and chaotic symbols. For models, if any good modeller has a care to do this, it'll be as if this constantly shifting form is freeze-framed. Icons of Slaanesh, daemonic faces, salamander heads, etc. For the less able, simple Legion of the Damned flames can works just as well.
[Cormac Airt 12/15/2012 Post #18, Page 1, Thread 2]

Back to the Chaos Chapters thing, I think I might be trying to push it too hard onto the Blood Angels. Thing is, it fits with all the others. Imperial Fists and Salamanders have nothing standing in their way and are supposed to be followers of Guilliman, as their Warmaster.
I'll have to re-read the Salamander book to see who is high up in that Legion or would be an appropriate Chosen[.]
[Cormac Airt 01/26/2013 Post #61, Page 3, Thread 2]

I think we should give him[the Lion] the Salamanders. As we have it, Vulkan is lost amid the devastation that is Miral, like what happens at canon Isstvan. Only, instead of reappearing with his sons later on, he is taken by Guilliman to an altar to Slaanesh, who converts Vulkan to it. Vulkan then returns and corrupts his Legion. Let's remove him and his Legion from Miral and add his fall somewhere else at the Lion's hand. We can keep the manner of conversion, unless we come up with something more suitable to the changes made. My idea would be to make it at our Isstvan, when the Lion attempts to upstage Guilliman, or to include it as an event very soon after it. The Salamanders will then be in the Lion's camp, not Guilliman's. However, when the Lion fails at Terra and loses the favor of the Gods, Vulkan will lead his Legion to Guilliman's banner and swear to him. This could lead to some interesting post-Heresy developments, where traitorous Dark Angels feel that the Salamanders should owe them their fealty, not to the Omega Legion. The Salamanders, being Slaaneshi, probably wouldn't give a damn. That would make it the Lion and Vulkan; Guilliman, Dorn and Sanguinius; the Khan; and much later the Iron Hands.
[Cormac Airt 03/14/2013 Post #102, Page 5, Thread 2]

What about Vulkan getting overextended in a joint campaign (post-Isstvan) with the Lion and ends up being unaccountable for a while? That way there would not actually be a head to head between the Legions and the Salamanders aren't butchered/mauled/whatever. Of course it would all be up in the air over what battlefield and what enemy would be featured but at least it keeps things smoother, imho.
[Olisredan 03/15/2013 Post #103, Page 5, Thread 2]

Is that what I said? Well, didn't mean to say Isstvan is post-Miral. I definitely want it to be pre-Miral. However, the Lion isn't exactly Chaos yet so it would make sense to have the Salamanders join him in a protracted campaign that leads to their fall to Chaos. I do want Guilliman to fall to Chaos before the Lion does. I'm not sure though if I want the Miral incident to occur before the Lion's fall as well. Perhaps the Dark Angels and Salamanders pieces will say that they fell somewhere before Miral, the rest will say "Guilliman betrays the Emperor at Miral. Not too long afterward, the Lion follows suit, or is discovered to have followed suit."
EDIT: Nevermind, there's plenty of time to play around. Guilliman had fallen long before Miral, it took some time before his behavior and actions lead to an attempted intervention due to his removal from the public eye. Plenty of time for the Lion to fall himself and snare the Salamanders' loyalties after his own fall and prepare for his own grand entrance. Interestingly, we kind of have Guilliman be messed over by the Chaos Gods. Part of his bargain for joining their cause was that certain other Primarchs join his cause. These Primarchs are Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Dorn and Vulkan. The big four with which he felt he could conquer any enemy with. The Chaos Gods agree. Only, they make Vulkan fall through the Lion, meaning that Guilliman doesn't have their loyalties. Hm. We're taking away the Salamanders from Miral. What if we replace them with the White Scars? I think we have the Dusk Raiders act as the executioners of the Salamander homeworld. I'm not too attached to that event, so what if we replace them with the Imperial Army? I'm still in love with the idea of an Army force single-handedly taking out an Astartes homeworld. If it's not Baal, that only leaves Nocturne as an easy substitute since we have things going on with the other Traitor worlds.

[Cormac Airt 03/15/2013 Post #104, Page 5, Thread 2]

So, with the Dark Angels falling seperately to the Ultramarines, giving them the Salamanders makes sense. As for the Imperial Army taking Nocturne, it sounds good and I'm all for it, but wasn't there a reason we put the Dusk Raiders there? I can't remember the specific reason, I must say. Whatever it was, they'll need to be transposed somewhere else probably. I have a feeling them being at Nocturne tied into something else to do with the Legion. Wait...wait... wasn't it to do with perceived retribution? They blamed the Sallies for something, iirc.
[Olisredan 03/19/2013 Post #105, Page 5, Thread 2]

The Dusk Raiders invade Nocturne as a means to include them in a major victory so that their involvement in the Heresy doesn't end with the loss of their heroic Primarch and First Captain. We can always include them in the Scouring, making their Heresy involvement low. The Loyalist equivalent to the Iron Hands. Or give them something else. I don't think it was because of anything the Salamanders did personally.
[Cormac Airt 03/19/2013 Post #106, Page 5, Thread 2]
 
Salamanders - All too easily the Salamanders splinter under warlords promising untold pleasures, however the Great Serpent-Drake, Vulkan, can still easily entice the disparate Salamander hosts together whenever he beckons.
- Varrun the Mute
Former member of the Firedrakes, Varrun's excesses were so extreme that he was forced from the illustrious order out of jealousy and spite. Though his eyes are forever alight with the pyromania common to his brothers, Varrun utters never a word, immolating all around him in utter silence as a stark contrast to the ever-present screams. Though many Salamanders enjoy the burning touch of the flames, dancing ever closer to total self-immolation and a true death, Varrun had inured himself to such pleasures and no longer seems to notice the flames forever raging around him. It is the burning of others that Varrun lives for, though none can ever truly know for sure. Fire is all that Varrun can see and he longs to grant such a vision to the rest of the galaxy.
[Cormac Airt 04/28/2013 Post #132, Page 6, Thread 2]

Vulkan[‘s ascenscion] I think can be easy, and relatively early. Namn. Think about it, a whole world burns, the gene-seed of nearly an entire Legion sacrificed in flames. The failure to appropriately sacrifice Corax himself can be reminiscent of canon Fulgrim and Perturabo. Vulkan can be the first to ascend.
[Cormac Airt 05/16/2013 Post #135, Page 6, Thread 2]

Well, Salamanders are a forward facing Drake head, Slaaneshi symbols carved into its head, or formed by its snorted flame.
[Cormac Airt 10/21/2013 Post #156, Page 7, Thread 2]


Most Current Information

- Turned to Chaos for reasons unknown.
- Vulkan prayed to the Chaos pantheon and all of his nine artifacts were enhanced with Warp powers.
- The Salamanders, contrary to their fluff, now abhor humanity after the heresy, seeing themselves as vastly superior.
[Salamanders]
- The Salamanders will fall to Slaanesh, and enjoy burning their victims and have a extreme case of pyromania as a result of their corruption
You could play up the sado-masochistic side of things and maybe have particular Slaaneshi Sallies into branding and scarification, for themselves and for prisoners.
You could play up the sado-masochistic side of things and maybe have particular Slaaneshi Sallies into branding and scarification, for themselves and for prisoners.
A Salamanders vs. Raven Guard grudge match could work. With the Raven Guard's guerrilla tactics coming undone in the face of the Salamanders' own "BURN. EVERYTHING." tactics. Make it a jungle world where the Raven Guard's hit and run movements cause the Salamanders to stop trying to face them conventionally and simply burn everything to the ground. Due to severe orbital losses, the Raven Guard are trapped on a burning world. They could be saved in the same way as they were at Isstvan in the canon universe. The battle could be the result of Vulkan's attempts to sway Corax to Guilliman's cause. Corax refuses, and the Legions war against each other.
Just imagine - Corax and Vulkan duelling amongst burning trees, flames and firestorms all around, Raven Guard bodies carpeting the forest floor, Salamanders engaging the survivors throughout the vicinity. It'd be a bloody affair for sure. Of course there'd be the fight in orbit to begin with - boarding actions and ships crashing into the planet below setting the scene. It kinda feels like this stuff writes itself.
Corax's limber form swaying in and out of combat, his darting attacks capturing his Legion's hit and run tactics in a far more personalized manner, as the cumbersome form of Vulkan relentlessly moves forward screaming "BURN WITH ME, BROTHER!" The Salamander Legion rushes forward into the Raven Guard's final sanctuary, pockets of Raven Guards and booby traps reaping terrible losses, yet inciting no more reaction than insane laughter. The battle climaxes when Vulkan slams home a powerful hammer strike into Corax's midriff, driving him powerfully into a collapsing, burning building from which he does not emerge. Following this, the pockets of resistance teeter off and slowly quiet down as the waves of Salamanders take their toll. Vulkan roars with pleasure over this victory, but it is quickly soured when a quick survey of the battlefield reveals that there are far less Raven Guard corpses than there should be, Corax's among them. His soured mood turns to seething rage when, hours later, he sees black ships rising up and away from the planet. Many of his sons felt this ire when his own orbital fleets failed to capture them. This hatred will burn within the Primarch forever.
- The Namn Massacre - The Raven Guard are ambushed by the treacherous Salamanders once Corax refuses Vulkan's attempts to bring him to Guilliman's cause. Vulkan and his legion of Slaanesh worshippers, in the galaxy at large for the first time since Vulkan's vanishing, massacre the Raven Guard on the Jungle world of Namn, having forced them planetside.
The Lion is ambitious, and sees himself as being a better candidate for Warmaster than Guilliman. When he turns, he decides to try something drastic to seal his rise as the true Chosen of Chaos: lay siege to Terra. It's bold, and if he pulls it off he'll end the war in one stroke. And he's a strategic genius, even among his brother Primarchs. He can pull it off, though his judgement is rather clouded at this time. He gets on his side Sanguinius, Rogal Dorn, and Vulkan. They don't swear to him over Guilliman, they just agree on the merits of such an assault. Dorn feels he can get through the Imperial Palace fortifications quickly, Sanguinius believes his Legion can cut through any resistances with ease, and Vulkan thinks it'll be fun. Guilliman, on the other hand, is opposed to it. He doesn't feel that his rebellion is quite ready for such a move. Whatever his opinion, however, those in support of an assault on Terra go through with it anyways. Guilliman and his Legion are not a part of it, however the Lion's Angels, the Blood Angels, a the Imperial Fists, and the Salamanders do take part. While the Lion and Fulgrim go at it, Dorn and Vulkan tag-team the Emperor. The Emperor forces them into retreat by the time the Lion reaches him. The Emperor is hurt, and the Lion is a less-powerful Warmaster. The Lion succeeds in breaking the Emperor's back, but with his brother Primarchs in retreat, and his Legion being surrounded and swarmed by returning loyalists, the Lion is forced to retreat as well. It takes the Blood Angels cutting through to them that actually allows him to make his escape.
The Guilliman Heresy would have quite a few more decisive moments that would involve any range of military elements. The Namn Massacre, for instance, was solely between the Raven Guard and Salamanders. I think there should be far more of those kinds of events, where the fates of Legions and others are decided by what would have otherwise been minor events.
When they [Blood Angels] see Dorn and Vulkan take their Legions out (and speaking of this, I think the Salamanders massive depletion of numbers could happen during this assault), Sanguinius, having just finished taking out the Lunar Defenses, takes his Legion to Terra.
So here's my slight revisement of Slaanesh's reasoning and the Salamander's paths and goals:
She shows the Vulkan a Chaos-enfused Lion battling the Emperor, and being killed. In the process, the Emperor is so badly wounded that he must forever be interred in the Golden Throne. The Imperium withers away over the millennia. However, the Lion has this strength because he has the utmost support of the Chaos Gods. Slaanesh offers to withdraw her support of the Lion in that battle, but only if Vulkan will swear himself and his Legion over to him. These are the facts brought before him, and given this scenario Vulkan will choose to save his father and the Imperium, by sacrificing himself and his Legion. What Slaanesh doesn't tell him is that, while the Emperor would indeed survive that battle against the Lion well enough, he wouldn't fare so well against Guilliman later on, where she would give full support. But Slaanesh also realizes the danger of the Thousand Sons, a danger that Tzeentch's plots were supposed to have nullified. And so she gives Vulkan a command, that he must hunt down and burn the Thousand Sons from all existence. Therefore, her ultimate goal is still to vanquish the Emperor of Mankind. She tricks Vulkan into thinking that by saving the Emperor from the Lion he will live on to guide the Imperium, all the while knowing that the true threat to the Emperor is Guilliman itself.
And so Vulkan and his Salamanders go on the prowl, forever seeking their brothers' scents. They do succeed in decimating the Thousand Sons, bringing their already low numbers even lower. They were so close to succeeding that even the Alpha Legion decided to take a hand, and together with the Raven Guard conjured a plot to lure the Salamanders to a jungle world, where the tactics of the Raven Guard can keep them occupied long enough to get the Thousand Sons out of danger.
What really makes this interesting is that Vulkan and the Salamanders are part of the Siege of Terra. They are in fact one of the Legions that pulls the Lion out. Now they have an ulterior motive. They want him to withdraw so that he won't succeed, while telling him he should withdraw because he won't. Also, Vulkan is part of Guilliman's Dauntless Few, and owes their allegiance to him in this rebellion. And yet, if Slaanesh convinces Vulkan that it's the Lion who is the true threat to the Emperor, than they won't believe that Guilliman is. So they'll be fighting alongside those who they believe are doomed to fail, taking up a cause they already know is false. Never knowing until it was far too late that they had been lied to, that they have become far too corrupted to ever turn back.
What really makes this interesting is that Vulkan and the Salamanders are part of the Siege of Terra. They are in fact one of the Legions that pulls the Lion out. Now they have an ulterior motive. They want him to withdraw so that he won't succeed, while telling him he should withdraw because he won't. Also, Vulkan is part of Guilliman's Dauntless Few, and owes their allegiance to him in this rebellion. And yet, if Slaanesh convinces Vulkan that it's the Lion who is the true threat to the Emperor, than they won't believe that Guilliman is. So they'll be fighting alongside those who they believe are doomed to fail, taking up a cause they already know is false. Never knowing until it was far too late that they had been lied to, that they have become far too corrupted to ever turn back
What really makes this interesting is that Vulkan and the Salamanders are part of the Siege of Terra. They are in fact one of the Legions that pulls the Lion out. Now they have an ulterior motive. They want him to withdraw so that he won't succeed, while telling him he should withdraw because he won't. Also, Vulkan is part of Guilliman's Dauntless Few, and owes their allegiance to him in this rebellion. And yet, if Slaanesh convinces Vulkan that it's the Lion who is the true threat to the Emperor, than they won't believe that Guilliman is. So they'll be fighting alongside those who they believe are doomed to fail, taking up a cause they already know is false. Never knowing until it was far too late that they had been lied to, that they have become far too corrupted to ever turn back.
What really makes this interesting is that Vulkan and the Salamanders are part of the Siege of Terra. They are in fact one of the Legions that pulls the Lion out. Now they have an ulterior motive. They want him to withdraw so that he won't succeed, while telling him he should withdraw because he won't. Also, Vulkan is part of Guilliman's Dauntless Few, and owes their allegiance to him in this rebellion. And yet, if Slaanesh convinces Vulkan that it's the Lion who is the true threat to the Emperor, than they won't believe that Guilliman is. So they'll be fighting alongside those who they believe are doomed to fail, taking up a cause they already know is false. Never knowing until it was far too late that they had been lied to, that they have become far too corrupted to ever turn back.
I think we should give him[the Lion] the Salamanders. As we have it, Vulkan is lost amid the devastation that is Miral, like what happens at canon Isstvan. Only, instead of reappearing with his sons later on, he is taken by Guilliman to an altar to Slaanesh, who converts Vulkan to it. Vulkan then returns and corrupts his Legion. Let's remove him and his Legion from Miral and add his fall somewhere else at the Lion's hand. We can keep the manner of conversion, unless we come up with something more suitable to the changes made. My idea would be to make it at our Isstvan, when the Lion attempts to upstage Guilliman, or to include it as an event very soon after it. The Salamanders will then be in the Lion's camp, not Guilliman's. However, when the Lion fails at Terra and loses the favor of the Gods, Vulkan will lead his Legion to Guilliman's banner and swear to him. This could lead to some interesting post-Heresy developments, where traitorous Dark Angels feel that the Salamanders should owe them their fealty, not to the Omega Legion. The Salamanders, being Slaaneshi, probably wouldn't give a damn. That would make it the Lion and Vulkan; Guilliman, Dorn and Sanguinius; the Khan; and much later the Iron Hands.
Is that what I said? Well, didn't mean to say Isstvan is post-Miral. I definitely want it to be pre-Miral. However, the Lion isn't exactly Chaos yet so it would make sense to have the Salamanders join him in a protracted campaign that leads to their fall to Chaos. I do want Guilliman to fall to Chaos before the Lion does. I'm not sure though if I want the Miral incident to occur before the Lion's fall as well. Perhaps the Dark Angels and Salamanders pieces will say that they fell somewhere before Miral, the rest will say "Guilliman betrays the Emperor at Miral. Not too long afterward, the Lion follows suit, or is discovered to have followed suit."
EDIT: Nevermind, there's plenty of time to play around. Guilliman had fallen long before Miral, it took some time before his behavior and actions lead to an attempted intervention due to his removal from the public eye. Plenty of time for the Lion to fall himself and snare the Salamanders' loyalties after his own fall and prepare for his own grand entrance. Interestingly, we kind of have Guilliman be messed over by the Chaos Gods. Part of his bargain for joining their cause was that certain other Primarchs join his cause. These Primarchs are Ferrus Manus, Sanguinius, Dorn and Vulkan. The big four with which he felt he could conquer any enemy with. The Chaos Gods agree. Only, they make Vulkan fall through the Lion, meaning that Guilliman doesn't have their loyalties. Hm. We're taking away the Salamanders from Miral. What if we replace them with the White Scars? I think we have the Dusk Raiders act as the executioners of the Salamander homeworld. I'm not too attached to that event, so what if we replace them with the Imperial Army? I'm still in love with the idea of an Army force single-handedly taking out an Astartes homeworld. If it's not Baal, that only leaves Nocturne as an easy substitute since we have things going on with the other Traitor worlds.
Salamanders - All too easily the Salamanders splinter under warlords promising untold pleasures, however the Great Serpent-Drake, Vulkan, can still easily entice the disparate Salamander hosts together whenever he beckons.
- Varrun the Mute
Former member of the Firedrakes, Varrun's excesses were so extreme that he was forced from the illustrious order out of jealousy and spite. Though his eyes are forever alight with the pyromania common to his brothers, Varrun utters never a word, immolating all around him in utter silence as a stark contrast to the ever-present screams. Though many Salamanders enjoy the burning touch of the flames, dancing ever closer to total self-immolation and a true death, Varrun had inured himself to such pleasures and no longer seems to notice the flames forever raging around him. It is the burning of others that Varrun lives for, though none can ever truly know for sure. Fire is all that Varrun can see and he longs to grant such a vision to the rest of the galaxy.
Vulkan[‘s ascenscion] I think can be easy, and relatively early. Namn. Think about it, a whole world burns, the gene-seed of nearly an entire Legion sacrificed in flames. The failure to appropriately sacrifice Corax himself can be reminiscent of canon Fulgrim and Perturabo. Vulkan can be the first to ascend.


Edited by Cormac Airt, 23 November 2013 - 08:50 PM.

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#162
Grotsmasha

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I started to read it, but hot damn it's a lot, I'll come back to it this arvo....

 

Cheers,

Jono



#163
Olis

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I know I promised the Fists this weekend - mitigating circumstances (going to work and catching up with friends, if you'll forgive me) have dictated that you'll be getting this piece in increments. Also, it's melodramatic. For now, I leave you with the first chunk of the IA - the intro. (And please do point out anything that may be amiss. ;) )

 

The fluff collected can be seen here but this proto-IA does also include information gathered from the second thread, too, going up to roughly Post #120.

Selected flavour text:
 

"We have made our walls of your dead. Do you dare assault us again, Word Bearer?" - Captain Uriseus, on the walls of an unamed bastion, Inwit.

 

Brutal close quarters melee boiled along the walkways and the habs of Ultorosk Hive, figures plunging hundreds of metres as they were forced over the railings. In the Governor's residence, traitor legionnaires checked the loyalist assault, step for step. Plush decor, burnt and damaged from days of combat lay where it fell, alongside the dead astartes sporadically marking places that had seen killing.
 
Knocking down his opponent, Cerrac plunged his combat blade into the damaged armour of the traitor. Lodged deep, the weapon refused to move as Cerrac pulled the handle. Fellow sons of Perturabo fought desperately to overcome their hardy foe, losing marines for every step forward they took. For every traitor that was dragged down, three of his killers died in response.
 
"You cannot kill us." Rasped the Fist with his blade in it's chest. Sharply pulling the Iron Warrior over onto his back, the Fist loomed over him and held his collar fast.
 
"We are dead already." Whispered another through dry lips. Cerrac only had a moment to register the battered and rusted bolt pistol before he died, his corpse among many, marking yet another fight in the marble halls.

 
 

Elite.gif THE GUILLIMAN HERESY: IMPERIAL FISTS Elite.gif

 

 

 

"Do not ask to be saved, nor why we are here. All you need know is that we have come." - Black Knight Sigismund, the fall of Ophelia VII

 
Numeration: VIIth Legion
Primogenitor: Rogal Dorn (The Monolithic Dead)
Observed Strategic Tendencies: Ship-to-ship Combat, Siege Warfare, Defensive Operations, Urban Combat 
Noteworthy Domains: --][-- Subject to Investigatus Censure --][--
Allegiance: Traitoris Perdita
 

 
 
Preface
 
In the time of the 41st millenium, the name 'Imperial Fists' strikes dread and fear to any who choose to utter it. Long gone are the associations between the Emperor, the Imperium, the Great Crusade and the traitorous Imperial Fists. The wraiths that walk the fields of battle in this day and age ceased any noble or high-minded ideal many thousands of years ago. 
 
The Imperial Fists are the implacability of death itself. They are the harsh reality of entropy, decay and corruption. They build impenetrable walls, release potent gasses and await for the living and the dead to come to them. They are the ultimate lurking horror, that of the corrupted core that can tear down all that was built upon it. The horror of the inevitability of a death that is no release.
 
The individual warriors themselves, if they can be deemed as such, have decayed - mummified and rotten to the point where they more resemble plague zombies than virtuous astartes. Bearing a gaunt and wasted visage, these traitors act in concert on the battlefield to an unnatural degree, converging on objectives and persecuting targets with uncanny, unified precision.
 
Short of dismemberment or vaporisation, only sanctioned psychic assault proves directly effective against the foul sons of Dorn. It appears that any disruption to the innate connection the Imperial Fists have with one another fundamentally hinders their co-ordination. This suggests that the 'hive-mind' connection these ghouls display is indeed psychic in nature.
 
On observation, there is one thing that the Fists despise more than the Imperium - Necrons. Neither are alive in the traditional sense and neither are affected by disease or pestilence in traditional ways. The Necrons are perhaps the most implacable foe the Imperial Fists face. The response: Hatred.
 


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#164
Conn Eremon

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Had an idea we could add to the list of sidebars. We have the Sons of Horus split in two, each following a half of the Mournival. Loken and Torgaddon represent those who remain loyal to the Emperor through their grief, while Horus Aximand and Abaddon represent those who, in their grief, turn from the Emperor. However, we end up having Horus Aximand return to the fold, while Abaddon and his Justaerin (and probably the Catulan Reavers as well, now that I think about it) remain traitors and end up joining the Omega Legion post-Heresy. The Sons of Horus, on the other hand, re-invent themselves as a trio of miniature Legions. Though they all retain the name of the Sons of Horus, their color schemes vary between them. There is a Luna Wolf white and black, a Sons of Horus seagreen and gold, and a Justaerin black and brass, the last being taken by Little Horus as penitence.

 

Anywho, I was thinking a nice sidebar could go somewhere in the article where it is revealed that Horus Aximand returns to the loyalist Sons of Horus. Aximand encounters a Thousand Son who reveals that whatever their father, Magnus, saw, they who were a part of the ritual saw as well. Meaning that the Thousand Sons saw Horus' last moments. Now, we shouldn't reveal what those moments actually are, because we've left it vague whether or not Horus actually spurns Kor Phaeron's offer, or is killed by Kor Phaeron in his impatience, or dies of his wounds. But I'm imagining the Thousand Son stating that he can share the vision with him, ending with "bright light seared into his mind, and Horus Aximand opened his mouth to scream."

 

With that, we will know that Horus' second betrayal, that of Abaddon, is related to Horus' demise. But without revealing the details, it will lead people to choose what they want to believe. He saw Horus choose death over corruption, and how could he make the same decision? Or he saw Horus choose corruption, but inevitably die nonetheless, and how could he follow his sire down such a path? Does he wear the colors of Abaddon's elite out of penitence for his own sins, or those of the father?

 

Anyway, just an idea to bump the thread up.

 

As for the Salamanders IA, Olisredan and I have decided to take a different approach to how these are written. I am currently getting caught up with some 40k material that we will be basing the format on, so I can be more familiar with it. Afterwards, I'll probably first try and utilize the new approach with some IAs already written, for practice and to get them caught up with the new plan. So the Salamanders are being put on the shelf momentarily, but the main reason why is because of a new means of going forward.


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#165
Grotsmasha

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:tu:



#166
Moonreaper666

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So the Loyalist Legions aren't broken down into smaller Chapters? If so, the Imperium is screwed!



#167
Conn Eremon

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The Legions are broken down into smaller, autonomous units, just not in an organized way as dictated by the canon Codex Astartes. That said, the Imperium is always screwed, whether in canon, the Guilliman Heresy, the Dornian Heresy, the Corax Coup or any other alternative heresy that aims to keep true to the original vision and scope of Warhammer 40k.

But if you have an argument to make in favor of the Chapter system, or against our currently set up system of continued Legions, we would be interested to hear it. We love to hear criticism, as it can only make our work stronger for it.

Edited by Cormac Airt, 16 July 2014 - 01:06 AM.

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#168
karden00

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The Guilliman Heresy....

pfffft.


'Lorgar has his own battles to fight, Erebus,' replied Horus sharply. 'Should he fail at Calth, all this will be for nothing if Guilliman's Legion is allowed to intervene.
You can always ally the Dark Angels to your current ultramarine force.
Never.
My Ultramarines aren't taking the field with traitors.
That's what Dark Vengeance is. A box of traitors.

 

"Now I have a plasma cannon. LOGISTICS LOGISTICS LOGISTICS."


#169
Wulfkry

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Does this still live????


"You strive for Victory that is obvious. What may be less obvious is the nature of victory. There are circumstances in which you can destroy the enemey utterly, without loss to your own forces, and yet the victory will be his. In all situations, you must first decide on the nature of victory, and then take steps to secure it. Avoid the instinct to fight first and think later."


#170
Conn Eremon

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It does. Trust me, it might be a while, but we have something big planned.

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#171
Grotsmasha

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The Guilliman Heresy....

pfffft.

Soooooo constructive........have you even read what's here? 

 

It does. Trust me, it might be a while, but we have something big planned.

Ahhhhhh yeah :tu:

 

I have to admit I smiled when I saw this appear again yesterday.

 

Cheers,

Jono



#172
Olis

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It+Lives.jpg

 

 

It does indeed live, brothers. Both me and Cormac have been drawn back to discussing the Guilliman Heresy, on and off, for the last few months and there has even been time to have some content created while we've been busy doing other things. msn-wink.gif

 

However, when we do come back to this, I think it will with another thread, starting fresh.

 

The Guilliman Heresy....

pfffft.

 

Come. Join us for a while. Let us hear what you disagree with and what you would do instead. As Cormac said, we are very welcoming of critique and constructive comments. smile.png


Edited by Olisredan, 17 July 2014 - 02:36 PM.

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#173
fox2013

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i can't wait to see whats next.  a "sangunior" corrupted? a "omega incursion? the spawn of the dornian plague assaulting the recruit world of the iron warriors, deciding to ressurect their father as a plague-slave to nurgle?, maybe the iron hands attempt to retake mars? oh the possibilities. can't wait to see what u guys come up with next.

 

 

 

 

my axe and i hunger for blood! 



#174
Olis

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i can't wait to see whats next.  a "sangunior" corrupted? a "omega incursion? the spawn of the dornian plague assaulting the recruit world of the iron warriors, deciding to ressurect their father as a plague-slave to nurgle?, maybe the iron hands attempt to retake mars? oh the possibilities. can't wait to see what u guys come up with next.

 

You've raised some interesting ideas, brother. I'd be inclined to treat an "Omega Incursion" like a Black Crusade (or perhaps the title of one specific Black Crusade) and the thought of corrupted Iron Hands, with their impossible daemonic machinery and warp weaponry, cutting a swathe across Mars (although it wouldn't be made easy) could be a nice set piece to bring up at a later point. 

 

my axe and i hunger for blood! 

 

Ah, yes, but is it Loyalist blood or corrupted blood that you crave? :D


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#175
Wade Garrett

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Well, the thing about Legions vs Chapters is, if you're going to realistically dart all over the galaxy putting out the various fires Astartes are supposed to put out, either you use the Chapter system, OR you have to split your Legions up into Chapter-ish sized forces just to cover everything.

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