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IA: Solvo Angelus 2.0


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#1
Epistolary Exander

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Morning all. Below is hopefully the final version of the Solvo Angelus, as ever enjoy and please feel free to leave any feedback. Exander.

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This record of their founding is said to be sourced directly from the chapter itself, which lends credence to other commentators’ views of the Solvo Angelus excessive tendency of vociferously proclaiming their self-perceived honourable virtues.” Deacon Helga Var lecturing on local Space Marine chapters.


T
he Solvo Angelus were founded during the turbulent times of the re-forging of the infant Imperium in the wake of the calamitous Horus Heresy, where the numbers of Emperor’s Space Marines were still far too few for the task at hand, because of this the High Lords of Terra authorised the legendary 4th Founding. In to this breach the Solvo Angelus was sired from the Exsanguinators chapter who descend from the genestock of the Angel Primarch Sanguinius.

And so it was with the aid of their sires the Solvo Angelus joined the monumental task to re-secure the Emperor’s realm, in particularly focusing on the border area between Segmentums Solar, Obscuras and Pacificus. Where the 2 chapters purged the local sectors of zenos pirates and rebels who had established themselves during and in the wake of the Horus Heresy. In recognition of their efforts to support them the freshly invigorated local authorities granted the Solvo Angelus the moon of Horvan Prime to do establish their Fortress Monastery The Infinite Chalice on. Uniquely among the sons of Sanguinius the Solvo Angelus have flourished over the millennia continuing its founding mission to purge foul zenos and traitors alike where ever the chapter encounters them within the Imperium’s borders.


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Only when it is born in hell, can an Angel rise.” Proverb from the Cult of Sanguinius.


T
he Solvo Angelus homeworld of Horvan Prime is a planet sized moon comparable to the Sol system gas giant Jupiter’s moon Io. While the volcanism of Horvan Prime is less intense than Io, it is still driven by internal friction heating driven by the pronounced elliptical orbit around its own gas giant Horvan 4. Horvan Prime’s volcanism has over the aeons created an atmosphere capable of sustaining life, for which humanity has established itself into. It is inferred from archaeology records that in an earlier age Horvan Prime is believed to have been comparable with the paradise of ancient Terra, yet the continuous pouring of thousands of tonnes of carcinogenic compounds into its atmosphere during the current epoch has made Horvan Prime into a hellish place.

The daily struggle in which life on Horvan Prime has found itself is exacerbated by the high levels of mutation caused by the carcinogens frequently hampering species viability. The effect of the various carcinogens on the individual organisms of Horvan Prime is to lead to a short life expectancy, with most species co-existing with a mutant population alongside the thorough breeds. The high levels of carcinogens present still cause visible defects on the thorough breeds; with pock marked scarring, jaundiced and bloated specimens all too common.

The constant warfare between humanity and the mutants of Horvan Prime has reduced the original colonists to the feral level of development. This has led to both the thorough bred and mutant human population following the seasonal migrations to maximise the scarce resources around them. This intense level of competition from both within and between the 2 populations ensures only the fittest and purest humans remain in the thorough bred population, creating ideal candidates for the Solvo Angelus.


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The key thing to remember regarding the Solvo Angelus chapter cult is that by striving to be similar to the original Blood Angels Legion as possible the chapter’s brethren believe they are protected by Sanguinius himself against the Flaw that blights his other scions. By extension of this they must be the Angel Primarch's chosen sons.” Deacon Helga Var lecturing on local Space Marine chapters.


T
he Solvo Angelus chapter cult is highly divergent from the rest of the sons of Sanguinius and in some respects is more acceptable to the wider Imperium, as the chapter lacks many of the blood rites conducted by their kin.

At the centre of the chapter’s Cult of Sanguinius is the belief that they alone are the true descendants of Sanguinius, that they are the solely following Sanguinius plans for his sons. They see the decline and tumultuous history of their kin as proof that they have fallen from both Sanguinius and the Emperor’s grace, with the loss of their sires the Exsanguinators only fuelling this view.

It has been observed that the chapter’s marines believe that by being like their forebears of the Blood Angels legion that Sanguinius will protect them against the excesses of the Flaw. As part of these endeavours the chapter has adopted the colour scheme and insignia of pre-heresy Blood Angels and that they themselves are the only Angels who can legitimately don them.

At the heart of the chapter’s emulation of their forebears is that as each neophyte Scout of the chapter progresses to initiate Devastator he must choose a name of a Legionnaire from the Blood Angels legion to rechristen himself by. The selection of name of who the initiate will be rechristened to is important for a number of reasons. Firstly as the chapter’s brethren believe their namesake aids Sanguinius in protecting himself against the Flaw within himself. Secondly the name the initiate chooses signals his aspirations about how he should conduct himself.

The rechristening ritual is more than symbolic for each initiate as he must enter a deep meditative state where the Solvo Angelus Librarians scrub his birth name from his mind for all time. By this the initiate is literally reborn into the mould of his namesake. At the apex of the ceremony the initiate is presented with his suit of power armour and before he can don his armour plate for the first & only time he must chemically etch his new name onto the left arm of his power armour, adding his name to either the pauldron or vambrace. By doing this the marine is declaring his valour to his peers while also showing his contribution to the pure legacy of the chapter to its enemies by being another Angel who has not succumbed to the Flaw.

It is due to this practice that it is believed that Solvo Angelus pass down suits of power armour in tandem with the progenoid glands of the Angel. The new names adopted by the Solvo Angelus allow its brethren to be hidden from the Sanguinius’ eternal foe of Ka’Bandha as the Greater Daemon will literally be unable to know the Angels true name. Coincidentally it has been noted that there are no reports of Ka’Bandha attacking the chapter.

On the rare occasion when one of the chapter’s Angels falls into the Red Thirst the chapter’s hierarchy activates a kill switch in the Angel’s armour deactivating his power plant. Therefore immobilising the Angel into a statue, trapping him under the weight of his own armour. Locked into this statue the fallen Angel can only loose himself as his mind is ravaged by thirst for blood as he slowly dies protected by his own armour. What happens to these weeping Angels is not clear, but it is believed the chapter whisks these unfortunate souls away where they can meet their demise alone with the gaze of Sanguinius as their solace. It is a great humiliation for an Angel to suffer this fate as not only as his mind will slowly torture him beyond lucidity, but he will suffer the indignity of not having his power armour along with his progenoid glands passed onto to the next generation. It is due to this practice that there is no evidence of the fully transformed Angels being seen without being fully enclosed in their armour suit, and it is believed the Angels in the chapter never remove their armour plate even in private.


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An Angel may ascend alone, but he never descends alone. For us Angels eternally cascade onto His enemies together.” Proverb from the Cult of Sanguinius.


A
s part of the emulation of the Blood Angels legion the Solvo Angelus has adapted their organisation away from the Codex Astartes practiced by their kin, instead adopting a miniaturised structure of the 300 Companies comprised of 400 Angels apiece of their legion. Into this the chapter’s command structure has morphed into the following pyramid structure:
1) Chapter Master’s office.
2) Chapter support facilities including its; Armoury, Librarium, Apothercarium, Fleet Command, Warden Office and its Logisticum.
3) The Captains of each of the 3 Companies.
4) The 4 Element Commanders within each Company.
5) The Veteran Sergeants of the individual squads.

The Chapter Master office comprises of the current Chapter Master Amit “Flesh Tearer” and his Sanguinary Guard. Just as their forebears Amit and his Sanguinary Guard are equipped with artificer armour, glaive encarmines and angelus pattern boltguns.

Each Captain of the 3 Companies with his Honour Guard oversees the 400 Angels under his command, with each of 4 types of squads placed into the 4 specialised Elements of Tactical, Assault, Devastator and Veteran. Each Element has its own Commander who is responsible for the specialist tactical and strategic training of his Element. The compartmentalised nature of the Elements within the 3 Companies allows for the specific deployment of the chapter’s Angels when required to vanquish any particular foe of the Emperor.

The 3 Companies are rotated with 2 Companies always on combat patrols throughout Imperial space, while the remaining Company is praetorian over Horvan Prime and their Fortress Monastery The Infinite Chalice. The Praetorian Company is able to deploy its constituent Elements from itself to face any threats to the systems surrounding Horvan Prime. It has been postulated that this rotational system came about to ensure that each of the 3 Companies has sufficient opportunity to replenish its ranks as the Solvo Angelus has no Reserve Companies for the 3 Companies to draw Angels from to sustain their combat potential.

The multitude of support bodies that allow the Solvo Angelus to function answer only to the serving Chapter Master. With the chapter possessing typical Librarium, Armoury, Fleet Command and Logisticum facilities. The chapter’s Armoury is unique among the scions of Sanguinius to feature Storm Eagles over the Storm Raven favoured by their kin, whether this is due to the isolation of chapter from their kin or some unseen favour from the Adeptus Mechanicus is not known.

While the Solvo Angelus has an extensive fleet typical of most Space Marne chapters the chapter only utilises a small portion of its naval assets at any one time, with most of their vessels kept in a state of extended readiness. Due to the common deployment of the 3 Companies only the chapter’s battle barges; Lucifer, Epiphany and Misericord can sustain the 400 Angels apiece. The Solvo Angelus rotates through their mothballed strike cruisers when deploying an Element from the 3 Companies in order to avoid degradation of these timeless vessels.

Unlike their estranged kin the Solvo Angelus have retained the Warden Office from the legion over the installation of Chaplains to the chapter. With the Wardens monitoring spiritual wellbeing of the chapter by ensuring the legacies of Sanguinius is being correctly maintained by his chosen sons.

The Apothercarium of the Solvo Angelus as with other chapters is responsible for the monitoring of the purity of its geneseed and the creation of new initiates for the chapter. In lieu of a Codex Scout Company the Apothercarium oversees the training of the chapter’s neophytes placing them with the best Veteran Sergeants creating the chapter’s Scout squads to be seconded to the 3 Companies. Due to this the Apothecarium head hunts the brightest Veteran Sergeants of the chapter to ensure the highest quality training of the chapter's future Angels.

There have been no observations of the Solvo Angelus fielding a Death Company, with the chapter insisting it does not suffer from the Black Rage due to the patronage of Sanguinius. Although it has been noted that it is possible that chapter hierarchy could treat any Angel who falls into the Black Rage exactly the same as any of other Angel who suffers the Red Thirst and thus hiding its presence away from prying eyes. It has been put forward by more radical minds that there appears to be suffering a relapse of the Black Rage as a decline in the numbers of Angels present in battlefield reports in recent centuries. Yet this is probably due to more frequent Element deployments needed to counter the ever increasing number of disparate threats facing the Imperium in our time.


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Considering the Adeptus Mechanicus stance on their geneseed and coupled with their core beliefs, the arrogance encountered from the chapter’s battles brothers is to be expected.” Deacon Helga Var lecturing on local Space Marine chapters.


T
he Solvo Angelus is from the largely tragic line of the Angel Primarch Sanguinius. Yet unlike their disgraced kin the Adeptus Mechanicus has reported the Solvo Angelus alone have managed to halt the slow mutation of the Sanguinius geneseed, while it is still mutated when compared to the likes of the Ultramarines and Dark Angels lineages. The Mechanicum reports it believes the Solvo Angelus have achieved the relative stability in their geneseed by switching from Insanguination to the common method of implanting the Space Marine organs into their neophytes as they mature through puberty. Due to the relative stability of their geneseed the Solvo Angelus largely do not suffer from the affliction of the Flaw. It is still believed the chapter’s Angels do seldom suffer from the Red Thirst while the Black Rage component of the Flaw has been reported to be eliminated from the Solvo Angelus. The lack of visits by the Redeemer of the Lost can only support this theory.

As stated above the Solvo Angelus do not practice Insanguination and so their neophytes’ under-go the typical method of implantation of the 19 divine organs derived from their progenoid glands to create the chapter’s Angels. Even without the use of sarcophagi the chapter’s horrendously blemished neophytes are transformed into the very image of Angels by the end of their time in the chapter’s Scout squads. Seeing this metamorphosis has only fuelled the chapter’s superiority complex as the chapter’s Angels view this as direct proof of Sanguinius guiding their brotherhood.


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By the Spirit of Sanguinius!

Edited by Epistolary Exander, 29 December 2012 - 06:23 PM.


#2
Octavulg

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Solvo Angelus



A ) I think your grammar's wrong (I Solve Angels?  I Free Angels?).  What is it supposed to say?  
B ) I can't stand Latin names for Space Marine chapters.  This is, admittedly, my problem, not yours.  But still.  Just be the [Whatever] Angels.  People understand it, it rarely sounds worse, and you don't run into any grammatical issues.  And if it's going to sound silly as a name, hiding it behind Latin just makes you seem silly for trying to make your toy soldiers who fight Space Orks serious business.  :P  

“This record of their founding is said to be sourced directly from the chapter itself, which lends credence to other commentators’ views of the Solvo Angelus excessive tendency of vociferously proclaiming their self-perceived honourable virtues.” Deacon Helga Var lecturing on local Space Marine chapters.



First, that's an odd thing to have as a quote.  As part of the main text, it'd make a bit more sense.  Second, I can't tell if you're trying to claim this account is more reliable or less reliable.  You seem to be presenting their excessive self-aggrandizement as fact and then telling us that people have views about them doing that, when I think you want to be saying that people think they do that, and that this account reinforces that perception.  

Which could, in any case, be better done in the body of the text.  Especially if you do the text as "the real account" and the quote as "what the Angelii say".  

The Solvo Angelus were founded during the turbulent times of the re-forging of the infant Imperium in the wake of the calamitous Horus Heresy, where the numbers of Emperor’s Space Marines were still far too few for the task at hand, because of this the High Lords of Terra authorised the legendary 4th Founding. In to this breach the Solvo Angelus was sired from the Exsanguinators chapter who descend from the genestock of the Angel Primarch Sanguinius.



The Exsanguinators are from an unknown founding.  I'd recommend going with a 2nd Founding successor instead, just because that way you're futureproofed.  The Flesh Eaters would do, I think.  

Uniquely among the sons of Sanguinius the Solvo Angelus have flourished over the millennia continuing its founding mission to purge foul zenos and traitors alike where ever the chapter encounters them within the Imperium’s borders.



Uniquely?  Of all the Blood Angel successors, yours is the only one that's done well?  

If it's supposed to be hyperbole from the chapter, I'd quote it and have sarcastic academic commentary from an Adminstratum scribe.  You can have the official report, and have them occasionally compare that with what the chapter's records say.  

he Solvo Angelus homeworld of Horvan Prime is a planet sized moon comparable to the Sol system gas giant Jupiter’s moon Io. While the volcanism of Horvan Prime is less intense than Io, it is still driven by internal friction heating driven by the pronounced elliptical orbit around its own gas giant Horvan 4. Horvan Prime’s volcanism has over the aeons created an atmosphere capable of sustaining life, for which humanity has established itself into. It is inferred from archaeology records that in an earlier age Horvan Prime is believed to have been comparable with the paradise of ancient Terra, yet the continuous pouring of thousands of tonnes of carcinogenic compounds into its atmosphere during the current epoch has made Horvan Prime into a hellish place.



Never compare things to things we know today.  It yanks the reader out of the IA and starts making them think about things in terms of reality (how horrifying).  Besides, you can just describe the place as "a volanic moon in an elliptical orbit" and save yourself some space.  :)  

Most of the rest of this section also feels a little too wordy.  

It has been observed that the chapter’s marines believe that by being like their forebears of the Blood Angels legion that Sanguinius will protect them against the excesses of the Flaw. As part of these endeavours the chapter has adopted the colour scheme and insignia of pre-heresy Blood Angels and that they themselves are the only Angels who can legitimately don them.



...That's the Blood Angels modern color scheme but without Codex markings.  That's not really a different color scheme.  And I can't see that going over well with the Blood Angels or with the Inquisition (shades of legion-building).  

At the heart of the chapter’s emulation of their forebears is that as each neophyte Scout of the chapter progresses to initiate Devastator he must choose a name of a Legionnaire from the Blood Angels legion to rechristen himself by. The selection of name of who the initiate will be rechristened to is important for a number of reasons. Firstly as the chapter’s brethren believe their namesake aids Sanguinius in protecting himself against the Flaw within himself. Secondly the name the initiate chooses signals his aspirations about how he should conduct himself.



Nice.  

The rechristening ritual is more than symbolic for each initiate as he must enter a deep meditative state where the Solvo Angelus Librarians scrub his birth name from his mind for all time. By this the initiate is literally reborn into the mould of his namesake. At the apex of the ceremony the initiate is presented with his suit of power armour and before he can don his armour plate for the first & only time he must chemically etch his new name onto the left arm of his power armour, adding his name to either the pauldron or vambrace. By doing this the marine is declaring his valour to his peers while also showing his contribution to the pure legacy of the chapter to its enemies by being another Angel who has not succumbed to the Flaw.



Also nice.  Though both these paragraphs are somewhat wordy.  A light pruning would not go amiss.  

It is due to this practice that there is no evidence of the fully transformed Angels being seen without being fully enclosed in their armour suit, and it is believed the Angels in the chapter never remove their armour plate even in private.



My understanding is that not removing power armor is unsanitary.  Seriously.  

“An Angel may ascend alone, but he never descends alone. For us Angels eternally cascade onto His enemies together.” Proverb from the Cult of Sanguinius.



...This just sounds weird.  

As part of the emulation of the Blood Angels legion the Solvo Angelus has adapted their organisation away from the Codex Astartes practiced by their kin, instead adopting a miniaturised structure of the 300 Companies comprised of 400 Angels apiece of their legion. Into this the chapter’s command structure has morphed into the following pyramid structure:



Two companies of 400 plus 200 assorted support Marines (Scouts, reserves, etc) would make more sense than having an extra-big chapter, IMO.  Plus, they'd be REadopting it, since they're from the Fourth Founding and none of them would even have met Sanguinius.  

Also, I would point out that if they're so obsessed with emulating the Blood Angels Legion, they should continue the practice of Exsanguination, since that was a Legion practice...

1) Chapter Master’s office.
2) Chapter support facilities including its; Armoury, Librarium, Apothercarium, Fleet Command, Warden Office and its Logisticum.
3) The Captains of each of the 3 Companies.
4) The 4 Element Commanders within each Company.
5) The Veteran Sergeants of the individual squads.



That's pretty much the normal structure of a chapter but with Element Commanders added.  It would probably be simpler to just present it as that.  

The Chapter Master office comprises of the current Chapter Master Amit “Flesh Tearer” and his Sanguinary Guard. Just as their forebears Amit and his Sanguinary Guard are equipped with artificer armour, glaive encarmines and angelus pattern boltguns.



Unnecessary.  Explain differences, not similarities.  

Indeed, throughout this section you provide a lot of details which could basically be summed up as "normal Space Marines" (the fleet springs to mind).  

The Solvo Angelus is from the largely tragic line of the Angel Primarch Sanguinius. Yet unlike their disgraced kin the Adeptus Mechanicus has reported the Solvo Angelus alone have managed to halt the slow mutation of the Sanguinius geneseed, while it is still mutated when compared to the likes of the Ultramarines and Dark Angels lineages. The Mechanicum reports it believes the Solvo Angelus have achieved the relative stability in their geneseed by switching from Insanguination to the common method of implanting the Space Marine organs into their neophytes as they mature through puberty. Due to the relative stability of their geneseed the Solvo Angelus largely do not suffer from the affliction of the Flaw. It is still believed the chapter’s Angels do seldom suffer from the Red Thirst while the Black Rage component of the Flaw has been reported to be eliminated from the Solvo Angelus. The lack of visits by the Redeemer of the Lost can only support this theory.



A ) I'm pretty sure that the BA implant geneseed as well as providing the blood.  
B ) Solving the problem of the Blood Angels geneseed is a little arrogant.  Them thinking they have is one thing (especially when you were hinting that they might be wrong).  Them saying they have and the Mechanicus confirming it comes across as you trying to make your chapter more awesome than all the other ones.  
C ) As I commented above, if they're so obsessed with being like the BA legion, them abandoning what was a practice of the Legion is very, very weird.  

* * *

I like the idea (quite a bit).  However, I think you have a couple of problems you need to confront as you proceed with this.  

1) Exsanguination (or Insanguination, if the fluff has started calling it something else) was a practice of the Blood Angels' Legion.  Them abandoning that while clinging to everything else about the Legion is really, really weird.  This needs some explanation (especially in light of the way they're Fourth Founding, and so are well into the Codex time period).  
2) Your writing is unnecessarily wordy, and it's not pretty enough that it adds anything.  I'd recommend going through and seeing where you can shorten sentences.  It'd help.  

Other than those two issues, it's all fairly minor issues.  :)

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#3
Epistolary Exander

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Cheers for the feedback :).

 

In relation to your 2 main points:

 

1) That is deliberate, its part of how bigoted the chapter is. Also its part of how Im trying to show how the chapter is still dying like the rest of the BA chapters, despite no matter what they try to save themselves they are still destined to be consumed by The Flaw.

 

2) Im not too sure if I can there, I think its part of my writing style. I will try to when I can make time to do it, Tbh Im a lot more concerned with my IA: Martyrs Vermilion 4.0, it appears that the top half of that IA has not been transferred over with the updates the board has received, so that is in need of a complete re-write atm. Out of interest is there anything that could be done to recover it? 



#4
Octavulg

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1) That is deliberate, its part of how bigoted the chapter is. Also its part of how Im trying to show how the chapter is still dying like the rest of the BA chapters, despite no matter what they try to save themselves they are still destined to be consumed by The Flaw.

 

I get why you have chosen to have them not do it.  What I don't get is why the CHAPTER chose to not do it.  Their in-universe reasons escape me. 

 

If they were obsessively Codex, it would make sense.  But they're not - they try to follow the Legion.  They use the Legion's organization.  They worship the Legion's heroes.  But this one Legion practice, that many (perhaps even all) other Blood Angel successors follow - that, they abandoned.  Them not using Exsanguination feels like the exact opposite of the way they do everything else. 

 

Also, what is the name supposed to translate to?  I can't figure it out.

 

2) Im not too sure if I can there, I think its part of my writing style. I will try to when I can make time to do it, Tbh Im a lot more concerned with my IA: Martyrs Vermilion 4.0, it appears that the top half of that IA has not been transferred over with the updates the board has received, so that is in need of a complete re-write atm. Out of interest is there anything that could be done to recover it?

 

No idea.  Depends why it's gone. 


Edited by Octavulg, 28 January 2013 - 11:31 PM.

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#5
Messor

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Did you try to edit it at all during the updates? Right now it's not looking like incidents like this are recoverable. I'm glad to hear it wasn't your whole article. Brother Ravenfeld wasn't so fortunate.

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#6
Epistolary Exander

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1) That is deliberate, its part of how bigoted the chapter is. Also its part of how Im trying to show how the chapter is still dying like the rest of the BA chapters, despite no matter what they try to save themselves they are still destined to be consumed by The Flaw.

 

I get why you have chosen to have them not do it.  What I don't get is why the CHAPTER chose to not do it.  Their in-universe reasons escape me. 

 

If they were obsessively Codex, it would make sense.  But they're not - they try to follow the Legion.  They use the Legion's organization.  They worship the Legion's heroes.  But this one Legion practice, that many (perhaps even all) other Blood Angel successors follow - that, they abandoned.  Them not using Exsanguination feels like the exact opposite of the way they do everything else. 

 

Also, what is the name supposed to translate to?  I can't figure it out.

 

>2) Im not too sure if I can there, I think its part of my writing style. I will try to when I can make time to do it, Tbh Im a lot more concerned with my IA: Martyrs Vermilion 4.0, it appears that the top half of that IA has not been transferred over with the updates the board has received, so that is in need of a complete re-write atm. Out of interest is there anything that could be done to recover it?

 

No idea.  Depends why it's gone. 

 

There doesnt need to be a reason ;).

 

The chapter developed its obsession about the legion as an effort to escape The Flaw, perhaps the chapter gave up Insanguination as part of their endeavor to rid themselves of The Flaw before they developed this obsession.

 

I dont believe I did edit the IA during the updates. It shouldnt be too bad I should have a BC coded version saved on Word, it will just depend on how upto date it is :).



#7
Olis

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Ah yes. The Ravenfeld incident. 'tis a shame, that. :(


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#8
Octavulg

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There doesnt need to be a reason ;).



...You're testing me, aren't you.  You're trying to determine whether I'll crucify your skeleton as a warning to others, or just cast you into the outer void of space to scream for eternity.

The answer is, of course, both.  :P  

There always needs to be a reason!  There can be multiple reasons, or there can be one, but one is the minimum number of reasons!  

The chapter developed its obsession about the legion as an effort to escape The Flaw, perhaps the chapter gave up Insanguination as part of their endeavor to rid themselves of The Flaw before they developed this obsession.



So they take one step to be less like the Legion, then...decide to be more like the Legion, but don't undo that one step they took.

I'm not saying you have to figure out an answer now, but it's a pretty big inconsistency.  I'd really recommend figuring something out in the next draft (off the top of my head, the fact that Sanguinius' blood isn't actually available could be a good justification).

 

Also, for the third time: what's the name supposed to mean? :P 


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#9
Epistolary Exander

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There doesnt need to be a reason msn-wink.gif.



...You're testing me, aren't you.  You're trying to determine whether I'll crucify your skeleton as a warning to others, or just cast you into the outer void of space to scream for eternity.

The answer is, of course, both.  tongue.png  

There always needs to be a reason!  There can be multiple reasons, or there can be one, but one is the minimum number of reasons!  

>>>>>The chapter developed its obsession about the legion as an effort to escape The Flaw, perhaps the chapter gave up Insanguination as part of their endeavor to rid themselves of The Flaw before they developed this obsession.



So they take one step to be less like the Legion, then...decide to be more like the Legion, but don't undo that one step they took.

I'm not saying you have to figure out an answer now, but it's a pretty big inconsistency.  I'd really recommend figuring something out in the next draft (off the top of my head, the fact that Sanguinius' blood isn't actually available could be a good justification).

 

Also, for the third time: what's the name supposed to mean? tongue.png

 

 

By all means do your worst in that regards, but you will only succeed in knocking yourself your out against a brick wall msn-wink.gif.

 

We appear to have different approaches on writing IAs, for example I dont believe everything should be explained in an IA , somethings just are for your chapter. I picked this up from the advise of Commissar Molotov (who's IA:  Castigators are arguably as good as anyone elses IA on the board, but thats another topic).  Indeed there have been times when I have received the advise from comments on my IAs that at times it best not to provide explanations for everything as its better to simply have mystery in that area.

 

If you would like a reason, I will provide this one: As part of their crusade to cast The Flaw from themselves the Solvo Angelus did the unthinkable, they abandoned the practice of Insanguination forsaking the holy blood of Sanguinius from their bodies. Only to find themselves to be still stricken down by their horrible affliction, in the desperation of their lowest ebb the chapter did the one thing they could think of that would redeem them in the eyes of Sanquinius and The Emperor; They would re cast themselves in the very image of when their lineage was its zenith, they would be the Angels from the Blood Angels legion.

 

I do not intend to incorporate this reason into the IA as I would like to keep it a mystery as to why they do it. Although the likely reason why the chapter does not do Insanguination could be due to them not possessing Sanguinius's blood, it would explain why the Solvo Angelus get very prickly on the matter msn-wink.gif.

 

I am not trying to dismiss your feedback because I do intend to look at it in a lot more detail and follow some of the minor points when I get around to editing the IA again smile.png.

 

In relation to what the name means its not an issue, people in the 40k universe almost certainly dont know latin or if they do its almost certainly evolved over time into something different from what we have today.


Edited by Epistolary Exander, 29 January 2013 - 12:45 PM.


#10
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We appear to have different approaches on writing IAs, for example I dont believe everything should be explained in an IA , somethings just are for your chapter. I picked this up from the advise of Commissar Molotov (who's IA: Castigators are arguably as good as anyone elses IA on the board, but thats another topic). Indeed there have been times when I have received the advise from comments on my IAs that at times it best not to provide explanations for everything as its better to simply have mystery in that area.

And on many occasions, I would tell you that myself. Indeed, I'm not sure whatever reason you came up with would necessarily need to be included in the IA (considering the standoffishness of the chapter, it likely shouldn't be). But there does need to be one. And I'm pretty sure Molotov'd have told you the same thing.

If you would like a reason, I will provide this one: As part of their crusade to cast The Flaw from themselves the Solvo Angelus did the unthinkable, they abandoned the practice of Insanguination forsaking the holy blood of Sanguinius from their bodies. Only to find themselves to be still stricken down by their horrible affliction, in the desperation of their lowest ebb the chapter did the one thing they could think of that would redeem them in the eyes of Sanquinius and The Emperor; They would re cast themselves in the very image of when their lineage was its zenith, they would be the Angels from the Blood Angels legion.

Which is why, of course, they immediately reinstated the practice of Exsanguination, because it's an original practice of the Blood Angels Legion.

As I said: that explanation doesn't make sense, and that's precisely why. Exsanguination is a Legion practice. If they want to be like the Legion, they should do it. Since they don't, there logically is a particular reason why they don't. What is that reason? What makes it OK to not practice Exsanguination when they want to be like the Legion in so many other ways?

That's what my concern is. I like both of those elements. I think it's a great idea. But the two bits don't inherently mesh, and I think they need to be reconciled to some extent.

In relation to what the name means its not an issue, people in the 40k universe almost certainly dont know latin or if they do its almost certainly evolved over time into something different from what we have today.

They speak High and Low Gothic. However, WE more or less know Latin, and the name as currently structured doesn't seem to work in it (I'm not sure, because you still haven't told me what it's supposed to say). And "Solvo" is sufficiently esoteric I think people will be likely to look it up (I did). And then they still won't know what it's supposed to be. Which is a bit ineffective, I think. tongue.png

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Haha you appear to be conveniently forgetting I have hinted in the IA & pretty much told you in post 9 that its because the Solvo Angelus do not possess Sanguinius's Blood and so are not capable of doing Insanguination. Its not like the chapter is humble enough to ask for more of the precious blood aswel msn-wink.gif.


Edited by Epistolary Exander, 29 January 2013 - 07:34 PM.


#12
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Haha you appear to be conveniently forgetting I have hinted in the IA & pretty much told you in post 9 that its because the Solvo Angelus do not possess Sanguinius's Blood and so are not capable of doing Insanguination.

If there are hints in the IA, they’re not hinting very effectively. Plus, I proposed that exact idea in Post #8, so hinting at it in Post #9 isn’t that impressive to me. msn-wink.gif. It’d do as a reason, though – more like the Legion, and since Sanguinius’ blood isn’t available, don’t use it. No blood is imperfect, but better than bastardizing up some kind of copy.

Also, some advice for the future: being coy is fine in an IA. It is really, really, really frustrating in response to questions.

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#13
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Haha you appear to be conveniently forgetting I have hinted in the IA & pretty much told you in post 9 that its because the Solvo Angelus do not possess Sanguinius's Blood and so are not capable of doing Insanguination.

If there are hints in the IA, they’re not hinting very effectively. Plus, I proposed that exact idea in Post #8, so hinting at it in Post #9 isn’t that impressive to me. msn-wink.gif. It’d do as a reason, though – more like the Legion, and since Sanguinius’ blood isn’t available, don’t use it. No blood is imperfect, but better than bastardizing up some kind of copy.

Also, some advice for the future: being coy is fine in an IA. It is really, really, really frustrating in response to questions.

haha I never read that part in Post#8 until you pointed it out. Oops. Its not like I would have pointed you to that if I had read that before now. lol

 

Im not confirming they do or dont have Sanguinius blood, but its the implied reason why they dont do it. 

 

It will be incredibly frustrating if the person asking them appears to be fixated on knowing the answer to them, especially when I have clearly shown I do not believe they need to be answered or intend  on anwering some of them. I do know how frustrating that can feel.


Edited by Epistolary Exander, 29 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.


#14
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Point 1:

Im not confirming they do or dont have Sanguinius blood, but its the implied reason why they dont do it.

Point 2:

It is not the implied reason they don't, because you don't imply it in any way, shape or form in the IA itself. You only "implied" it in this thread AFTER a point where I'd suggested the idea, and you did so in the same post where you explicitly offered another thing as a reason (a reason, I might add, which I had previously explained didn't make sense).

It will be incredibly frustrating if the person asking them appears to be fixated on knowing the answer to them, expecially when I have clearly shown I do not believe they need to be answered or intend on anwering some of them. I do know how frustrating that can feel.

No, actually. What you mostly seemed to be doing was not understanding the question. Hell, I'm still not sure you understand the question.

I am sure that you're not interested in what the only person to comment on your IA in a month has to think. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's fine. But you could at least be polite enough not to dodge them.

Goodbye.

Edited by Octavulg, 29 January 2013 - 10:07 PM.

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#15
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Point 1:


Im not confirming they do or dont have Sanguinius blood, but its the implied reason why they dont do it.

Point 2:

It is not the implied reason they don't, because you don't imply it in any way, shape or form in the IA itself. You only "implied" it in this thread AFTER a point where I'd suggested the idea, and you did so in the same post where you explicitly offered another thing as a reason (a reason, I might add, which I had previously explained didn't make sense).

>>
It will be incredibly frustrating if the person asking them appears to be fixated on knowing the answer to them, expecially when I have clearly shown I do not believe they need to be answered or intend on anwering some of them. I do know how frustrating that can feel.

No, actually. What you mostly seemed to be doing was not understanding the question. Hell, I'm still not sure you understand the question.

I am sure that you're not interested in what the only person to comment on your IA in a month has to think. If you don't want to answer my questions, that's fine. But you could at least be polite enough not to dodge them.

Goodbye.

Now thats going too far if I was not interested in what you think on my IA I would not have made the time to reply to your opinion on my IA, the only points I countered are the 2 main ones not the minor ones for which I have said I shall look into and folow where appropriate.

I do understand where you are coming from because intances such as the big inconsistency in this IA really wind me up in real life & make me a passionate advocate against how such things are allowed happen in real life. You could ask any of my peers in real life on my opinions on the UK armed forces & how they are being treated as an example of this. I suspect my reaction to this is due to my narrow thought processes from my Aspergers. So it isnt that I dont understand the question or the fixation on getting answers to your questions, it is more about how I think the 2 main questions you are asking me are irrelevent to the IA.

If anything it is you who can not understand that we have different approaches and ideas on how IAs should be written etc & it is because of that as to why I have not been forthcoming with you, despite the fact I raised this in point in post#9. I half expect for these posts to be modified by the mods for getting too personal.

Edited by Epistolary Exander, 29 January 2013 - 10:32 PM.


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Right. One more time.

So it isnt that I dont understand the question or the fixation on getting answers to your questions, it is more about how I think the 2 main questions you are asking me are irrelevent to the IA.

First, writing is incredibly relevant to an IA. It's how the thing is conveyed. It's as important as photography, modelling and painting in regard to miniatures.

Second, I am pretty sure you don't understand the question, because you seem to think it's a minor tangential issue and that I am somehow intolerant of your IA-making philosophy. First, it's an issue related to the core identity of your chapter. That's important. Second, I'm pretty sure you've been pronouncedly misunderstanding what other people have been telling you. That, or you're pronouncedly misunderstanding what I'm trying to tell you.

Please read the below closely (and I say this specifically because you apparently haven't been reading my other posts closely).

Philosophy
Almost any time people tell you something doesn't need to be explained, they are referring to explaining things within the body of the IA itself. They aren't saying that you don't need reasons for why your chapter does things in certain ways, just that not all those reasons need to be explained in the IA.

At this point, I would bet heavily you are thinking that this is just my opinion. I've been posting here longer than you and more actively than you. It is what I have observed in that time from a variety of people.

For example, if you read the Ice Lords, you'll notice that some guys ambush a training cadre. I never explain how this is done in the IA. I'm honestly not entirely sure how it was done. I have a couple of theories, but I never really picked one. But when somebody asked me how they did it, I was able to answer their question - "it was one of these options".

The actions your chapter take should have logical reasons behind them, even if those reasons aren't necessarily explained in the IA. You are free to disagree with this, but I have no idea why you would. You don't have to think up all the reasons beforehand. And you'll end up with an IA where what your chapter does makes sense (at least to the chapter, anyway).

If you genuinely do disagree with that, please say so.

What I'm Worried About
My concern is that your chapter wants to be like the Blood Angels Legion. They try to be like the Legion in almost every way. They have basically completely abandoned an independent identity in order to try to be more like the Legion. But they are apparently also the ONLY Blood Angels' successor that doesn't practice Exsanguination, a practice established BY THE LEGION.

Now, there are two ways I think you could disagree with me here. If you agree with me, just move on past the spoiler text.
Spoiler


Anyway, if it's an inconsistency, there are two options. If it doesn't matter much, it should be really easy to come up with an answer. If it's hard to come up with an answer, then it's probably more important than you think. In this case, I think the inconsistency goes right to the heart of their identity - being like the Legion. That's why I specifically mentioned it.

So far, your answer to the question has been, basically, that they abandoned Exsanguination before they got all Legiony. Which doesn't explain why they wouldn't try to pick it back up again once they headed in that direction. That's the thing. If they want to be like the Legion, they need to practice Exsanguination. So there needs to be a reason they don't that is still consistent with wanting to be like the Legion.

Accepting no substitutes for Sanguinius' blood would work. Hell, you could even throw it in as the Geneseed quote. Something like "Sanguinius' lesser sons still sup of his blood, a million times diluted through their own weaker veins. We do not indulge such weakness. If we cannot have the pure blood of our father, then we shall do without."

You'd suggested that they abandoned the practice and haven't been willing to ask for new blood from someone. But this is really, really critical - that'd seem excessively stiff, even for them. Hell, I'd expect them to just kidnap somebody else's Sanguinary Priest if necessary.

This isn't necessarily a difficult problem to solve. But it does need addressing.

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#17
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Cheers for the feedback, I will look over and amend the IA at some point over the next few weeks. If there is anything else you can think of regarding the IA, I would appreciate it. Thanks again :).