Raven Angel Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I am working on a new rules project dealing with 30K/40K starships and I'm deep into the research phase of the project. I am trying to round up all available data on ships of the Crusade and Heresy from the books. It is a massive amount of material to go through and would like your help in running it all down. Please post anything here please include book or story for anthologies and chapter reference. I'd say page but the various paper and e versions might not match up. Any other sources such as online compilations would also be greatly appreciated. I thank you all in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count the7 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I belive that the Adamant Resolve of the 12th Legion the War Hounds became the Conqueror. Butchers nails and Tails of Heresy The Terminus Est is stil Typhons Battle Barge. Still abit confused that the BFG Trator/Chaos ships were all older Spear blade like ships while the Imperial ones all had plough like prows. Shouldnt all PH ships be ofthe older design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Yes and no. In the PH era, the designs weren't uniform. For example, the favored class of Battle-Barge is the Gloriana because its base design is so modular. One Gloriana could be focussed on void warfare, another orbital bombardment and so on. It's in "Prince of Crows" IIRC. There is also mention of another type of Battle-Barge known as the Dominus class seems to be devoted as a troop carrier and getting those troops down to a planet's surface. As far as aesthetics, in PH it seems to vary from ship to ship, more or less what is its purpose and who will command it. For example, let's look at the Invincible Reason and the Conqueror. Both are Gloriana class Battle-Barges. But IIRC, the Reason is said to be stocky and bristling with weapons. The Conqueror in contrast looks like a well-used spear, covered in weapons and scars. Not to mention it also has the ursus claws which it uses to snare fleeing prey. Two ships that would normally identical since they were constructed from the same class design, also happen to be so very different. Nightfall and Invincible Reason are listed as being Gloriana class in Prince of Crows in the Shadows of Treachery anthology. Conqueror and Fidelitas Lex are also listed as Gloriana class in Betrayer and that is also where the Dominus class is mentioned. Also, there is mention of an Eclipse class cruiser in The Lion in The Primarchs anthology. Nothing is mentioned of tonnage, weaponry, or capabilities. Ooh, before I forget. The Abyss-class warships make a comeback. The Furious Abyss remains destroyed but the Blessed Lady and the Trisagion make a reappearance. As far as what to label their tonnage, I'm not sure as they are described as a fortress ship, called warships and also have been called "king-ships", which is a relatively new term. From their newer description, the best way to think of them would be as a much more mobile star fort that is capable of void warfare, troop deployment and orbital bombardment. And it is said that there are only two left. EDIT: Fixed typo. Changed "Dominatus" to "Dominus." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 In Betrayer, the Abyss-class "king-ships" are compared in size and firepower to the Phalanx of Imperial Fist fame. So they'd be pretty honking big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Still abit confused that the BFG Trator/Chaos ships were all older Spear blade like ships while the Imperial ones all had plough like prows. Shouldnt all PH ships be ofthe older design? From everything I have read - the "Imperial Prow"-type design and the "Choas Wedge"-type design aren't "newer"/"older", but seem to be two competing design philosophies from the Dark Age of Technology. Maybe even from two competing factions or governments from that period. It is stated that the "Prow"-type is a Martian design philosophy, which would leave the "Wedge"-type ships as being built by a faction elseswhere. That might explain why the Chaos ships are often referred to as "older designs" as the Mechanicum would not have become aware of them until well into the Emperor's Crusade expansion when this factions area was reclaimed. It might also be that the other faction was simply a DAoT provincial power that inherited their ship designs from the DAoT-era Martian shipyards after Mars had transitioned to the newer "Prow"-type design. For example: the Emperor-class "Divine Right" is estimated to be at least from M26, and possibly older. Placing its manufacture squarely in the first centuries of the Age of Strife and implying that the design is from the closing years of the Dark Age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 In Betrayer, the Abyss-class "king-ships" are compared in size and firepower to the Phalanx of Imperial Fist fame. So they'd be pretty honking big. Yeah but I'm not sure if the Phalanx is quite that mobile, relatively speaking. The Abyss-class is more like a ship than it is a fortress. Hmm, DsWanick, I seem to recall there being something mentioned about Saturn having shipyards that existed before the Unification Wars, I wanna say in Battle for the Abyss. Is it possible that is there the other faction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 OK, let's start from the top. What about the Flagships of each legion? Can we complete the following table? I know there are plenty more available but let's see what people can come up with! Btw I have not read the Betrayer yet, so I hope I got it right! Horus Heresy Legion Flagships I Legion – Dark Angels Invincible Reason Gloriana Prince of Crows BL book by ADB VIII Legion – Night Lords Nightfall ??? Prince of Crows BL book by ADB XII Legion – World Eaters Conqueror Abyss Betrayer BL book by ADB XIII Legion – Ultramarines Macragge's Honour ??? Know no fear BL book by Dan Abnett XVI Legion – Sons of Horus Vengeful Spirit ??? Horus Rising BL book by Dan Abnett XVII Legion – Word Bearers Fidelitas Lex ??? First Heretic BL book by ADB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I have some: XVII Legion - Word Bearers - Fidelitas Lex (No idea about the class) The First Heretic XIII Legion - Ultramarines - Macragge's Honour (No idea about the class) Know No Fear XVI Legion- Sons of Horus - Vengeful Spirit (No idea about the class) Horus Rising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 VII Legion- Night Lords: Nightfall, Prince of Crowns, if I'm not mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Excellent! The list is building up! Any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobointherain Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I'd probably compare the abyss-class to something along the same lines as the planet killer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 No. Conqueror is Gloriana-class. The Abyss-class is the same type of starship as the Furious Abyss. So it should look like: Horus Heresy Legion Flagships I Legion – Dark Angels Invincible Reason Gloriana Prince of Crows and The Lion, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels BL books by ADB, Mitchel Scanlon, Mike Lee respectively XII Legion – World Eaters Conqueror Gloriana Betrayer BL book by ADB XVII Legion - Word Bearers Fidelitas Lex Gloriana The First Heretic and Betrayer BL books by ADB VIII Legion - Night Lords Nightfall Gloriana The Prince of Crows BL book by ADB VIII Legion - Night Lords Avenging Shadow Eclipse The Lion BL book by ADB XVII Legion - Word Bearers Furious Abyss Abyss Battle for the Abyss BL book by Graham McNeill XVII Legion – Word Bearers Blessed Lady Abyss Betrayer BL book by ADB XVII Legion – Word Bearers Trisagion Abyss Betrayer BL book by ADB XIII Legion – Ultramarines Ceres Dominus Betrayer BL book by ADB That is just the ships that we know the name and class of. There are several ships throughout the books that are given names, but I do not recall any classes given to them, although I will have to look over the void battle scenes in Fallen Angels and the other books to make sure. Also, I must make amends. It is not the "Dominatus-class" but the "Dominus-class" Battle-Barge as shown above. I will fix that in my earlier post right now. EDIT: Oh and I recall Know No Fear having some ship classes with names in it as well. EDIT Secundus: Might I also recommend maybe making a column for tonnage, such as Battle-Barge, Strike Cruiser, Cruiser etc? As it looks right now, it looks like a list of Battle-Barges even though four of the ships listed are not. Sorry, not sure how to make the table I just copied it from Captain Semper's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Sorry Kol_Saresk do you actually have the sources for these? I mean I've read the Prince of Crows and do not recall saying the Nightfall was a Glorianna... :P Unless it explicitly says the Class we just put a question mark... Also I suggest we keep the tables to a minimum so as to avoid confusion. Make your suggestions in a form of a list (like Olisderan) and I'll add them to the table. Furthermore I'll take Kol_Saresk's advice and create a Legion Fleet Archive! So 18 tables each to cater for the fleet of each Legion! Or 20 for those that REALLY know their fluff! B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Shepard Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 III Legion- Emperor's Children: Pride of the Emperor (hopefully someone will know/remember its class), Fulgrim's Flagship, Fulgrim by Graham McNeill VII Legion- Imperial Fists. Phalanx (If I'm not mistaken it was in active service during the Heresy XX Legion- Alpha Legion: Alpha and Beta Battlebarges, Legion by Dan Abnett I'll try to find and/or remeber other ships.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Sorry Kol_Saresk do you actually have the sources for these? I mean I've read the Prince of Crows and do not recall saying the Nightfall was a Glorianna... :P Unless it explicitly says the Class we just put a question mark... Also I suggest we keep the tables to a minimum so as to avoid confusion. Make your suggestions in a form of a list (like Olisderan) and I'll add them to the table. Yes I do, but for posterity reasons, if you give me some time to look for everything I will provide those sources and the pages they are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 As promised. Avenging Shadow, Eclipse Class, The Lion by ADB in The Primarchs anthology, page 250 Blessed Lady, Trisagion, and Furious Abyss(seen in Battle for the Abyss by Graham Mcneill, mentioned in Betrayer), Betrayer by ADB the term "king-ship" is used on page 56 The Fidelitus Lex and the Conqueror are specifically listed as Gloriana class on page 34 of Betrayer when it says "The Gloriana-class flagships of the combined Legion fleet." Also listed as Gloriana class again on page 329. Nightfall, Gloriana-class, the Prince of Crows by ADB in the Shadows of Treachery anthology, page 394, specifically last sentence of the third paragraph from the bottom. The Ceres, Dominus class, Betrayer, page 334 I was going to list the Abyss-class designation again, but I couldn't find the exact page. I do know that I had never heard of it before I read Betrayer so I am still confident that it is in there somewhere, but will concede it being removed until I can find the definite page number. Also on a side note, Know No Fear, Fallen Angels, Prince of Crows and Betrayer have a ton of ship names but almost no class or tonnage. If you would like, I can list those as well. EDIT: Tags, spelling mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 So that's great for far guys. Feel free to add or correct anything you feel should be corrected. I have all the HH books to cross check save the "Betrayer" which I might get very soon. I also have them as ebooks which makes search easy. So with no further ado: I Legion - Dark Angels Invincible Reason Gloriana Legion Flagship Prince of Crows BL book by ADB III Legion - Emperor’s Children Pride of the Emperor ??? Legion Flagship Fulgrim BL book by Graham McNeill VII Legion – Imperial Fists Phallanx ??? Legion Flagship Shadows of Treachery BL book by John French VIII Legion – Night Lords Nightfall Gloriana Legion Flagship Prince of Crows BL book by ADB Avenging Shadow Eclipse ??? Prince of Crows BL book by ADB XII Legion – World Eaters Conqueror Gloriana Legion Flagship Betrayer BL book by ADB XIII Legion – Ultramarines Macragge's Honour ??? Legion Flagship Know no fear BL book by Dan Abnett Ceres Dominus ??? Know no fear BL book by Dan Abnett XVI Legion – Sons of Horus Vengeful Spirit ??? Legion Flagship Horus Rising BL book by Dan Abnett XVII Legion – Word Bearers Fidelitas Lex Gloriana Legion Flagship Betrayer BL book by ADB Blessed Lady Abyss ??? Betrayer BL book by ADB Furious Abyss Abyss ??? Battle for the Abyss BL book Graham McNeil Trysagion Abyss ??? Betrayer BL book by ADB XX Legion – Alpha Legion Alpha ??? Battle Barge Legion BL book by Dan Abnett Beta ??? Battle Barge Legion BL book by Dan Abnett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Iron Warriors flagship is the Iron Blood as per Angel Exterminatus. Death Guard had the Endurance and Reaper's Scythe both of which served as a flagship apparently as per Flight of the Eisenstein and HH: Betrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Death Guard had the Endurance and Reaper's Scythe both of which served as a flagship apparently as per Flight of the Eisenstein and HH: Betrayal. Don't forget the Eisenstein herself, too. I believe she was a frigate, right? :huh: Anyway: XIV Legion – Death Guard - Eisenstein, Frigate, Flight of the Eisenstein XIV Legion – Death Guard - Terminus Est, proto-Despoiler class, Battlefleet Gothic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Angel Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 Ok so there are at least 4 Gloriana Class ships known, Invincible Reason, Nigthfall, Fedelitas Lex, and Conqueror, with the possibility of 3 more in The Vengeful Spirit, Macragge's Honor, and The Pride of Fenris. These last 3 are in my mind definitely of the same class. Visuals of The Vengeful Spirit and Macragge's Honor confirm their shared Linage The Pride of Fenris was described as a Emperor Class in older books but at the time they were written this was the Emperor class That looks more like The Vengeful Spirit and Macragge's Honor then Emperor Class ships we know date from then or before. I think this hull is the inspiration for these ship and it either represents the Gloriana Class or another Battleship class of the time. I think too I have found inspiration for the Abyss class Hull Captain Semper The table looks good :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I would love it if GW or FW did some new BFG models for heresy era ships, though you could probably kitbash them by mixing the chaos and imperial cruiser boxes// that actually sounds like a good idea... Is it just me or does the Gloriana class look similar to the apocalypse class ship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 In Serpants Beneath I believe there is mention of an Alpha Legion ship called the Gamma. Not sure if class or designation is mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 There's at least a dozen (if not more) Xth Legion ships named in Fulgrim, but no class desginators are listed. The only one of major importance, however, is the Fist of Iron, flagship of the Xth. Others I can think of off the top of my head are the Ferrum, Armorum Ferrum, and Heart of Gold. Plus, the Sisypheum is the name of the Iron Hands vessel from Angel Exterminatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Captain Semper, the Avenging Shadow is listed as a cruiser on the same page as everything else about. Oh, there is also the Andronicus of the III Legion in Fulgrim and Angel Exterminatus. It is a battle barge IIRC, but I wouldn't swear on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Andronius strike cruiser used by Lord Commander Eidolon as his flagship in Fulgrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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