Jump to content

+++Fleets of the Heresy+++


Captain Semper

Recommended Posts

After some thought and consideration I believe that all ships should be listed because army and navy ships would move in and out of Astartes fleets at will The Legions commanded all of these forces should they so desire so technically they are all SM ships whether there are SMs on them or not.

 

From False Gods

 

Glory of Terra Class ? Flagship Davin defence fleet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also the Vengeful Spirit held the Titanarium for the Legio Mortis and the Conqueror the Titanarium for the Legio Aurdax. At this point I don't think you can make a real distinction between army, navy and SM. To quote a favorite villan of mine "We are all one big happy fleet." :devil:
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The German Lexicanum has galleries for the HH Card Game. Since the HH artbooks are compilations of the artwork from the card game, these galleries can be used to double check some of the content from Collected Visions.

 

Death Guard

 

[...]

Gladiator Capital ship. pg38

Belongs to the WE in the card game: Gladiator

 

When I saw it I thought its iconography looked world eaters as well, I've checked cards and your right.

Gladiator. Capital ship World eaters pg376 Horus Heresy Collected visions

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not all ships were under command of the Astartes. There were about 5000 expedition fleets, only a fraction of them included Astartes. Meaning that most ships would fall under the command of regular human (Imperial Army) commanders.

 

You missed the point malika which is that all these ships at some level fall under the command of a primarch at this point in history and any legion can draft them into their own fleet with just a word so there is no independent navy or army that can tell the SMs to sod off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not all ships were under command of the Astartes. There were about 5000 expedition fleets, only a fraction of them included Astartes. Meaning that most ships would fall under the command of regular human (Imperial Army) commanders.

 

You missed the point malika which is that all these ships at some level fall under the command of a primarch at this point in history and any legion can draft them into their own fleet with just a word so there is no independent navy or army that can tell the SMs to sod off.

 

Yet this command could constantly change. Meaning that the Imperial Army did maintain its own fleets, just that sometimes a Primarch could take control over that fleet. Doesn't mean that that specific fleet was actually part of that Primarch's Legion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting point. Do we include ONLY Legion vessels or all Imperial Vessels under the command of the Legions...

 

Personally I'd stick to Legion-only. The main reason is that the project is to catalogue the Legion Fleets not all Imperial Forces, so as to keep it firmly within B&C scope. Secondly it is also the fact that in principle non-Legion ships could be re-allocated to other Legions creating confusion as to which Legion they serve (although admittedly the possibility of this happening in an actual novel is very slim). The third has to do with logistics. Trying to catalogue every single vessel ever mentioned in relation to the Heresy is just too huge a task, even for the mighty Captain to keep up... ;)

 

But I might be persuaded otherwise, in fact I seriously consider adding another column titled "notes" and there we can add whatever clarification we need...

 

What do you guys think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just skimming Fulgrim and noticed something. Ferrus takes his vets and deploys for Istvaan aboard the Ferrum. Thats rather well known. The part i had overlooked, Ferrus makes planetfall with TEN COMPANIES of Morlocks. Its been assumed that the Ferrum was a strike cruiser. My understanding 40k strike cruisers was that they could deploy only one company. If Ferrum could deploy TEN companies of TERMINATORS its something other than what we know as a "strike cruiser".

 

Sorry for all the yelling.

Yes and no. A strike cruiser in 30k is vastly more superior to a strike cruiser in 40k. The 40k versions were downgraded due to the general downgrading of the Legions to the Chapters and the constraints placed upon them. For example, a 40k strike cruiser is not supposed to be able to hold its own in void combat. In 30k, strike cruisers were expected to excel in void combat.

a logical explanation. Makes sense, any official fluff confirming this ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting point. Do we include ONLY Legion vessels or all Imperial Vessels under the command of the Legions...

 

Personally I'd stick to Legion-only. The main reason is that the project is to catalogue the Legion Fleets not all Imperial Forces, so as to keep it firmly within B&C scope. Secondly it is also the fact that in principle non-Legion ships could be re-allocated to other Legions creating confusion as to which Legion they serve (although admittedly the possibility of this happening in an actual novel is very slim). The third has to do with logistics. Trying to catalogue every single vessel ever mentioned in relation to the Heresy is just too huge a task, even for the mighty Captain to keep up... ^_^

 

But I might be persuaded otherwise, in fact I seriously consider adding another column titled "notes" and there we can add whatever clarification we need...

 

What do you guys think?

 

Well, thing is that the sources we have so far are primarily about Space Marines. Imperial Army ships seem to be mentioned rarely, it almost gives the impression as if the Great Crusade was just Space Marines.

 

If I were you, I'd just include these factions' ships in the list as well, it gives us a more complete picture of what was going on. Besides it's not that much extra work, you've got an entire forum of people here looking up the ships so all you need to do is just add them to the list. Also, it would only be adding one or two more factions to the list (Imperial Army, Sisters of Silence).

 

It's only a tiny bit of extra effort, but the result will be so much more complete, making this a very desirable document for fans, but most likely also for the BL/FW authors...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was just skimming Fulgrim and noticed something. Ferrus takes his vets and deploys for Istvaan aboard the Ferrum. Thats rather well known. The part i had overlooked, Ferrus makes planetfall with TEN COMPANIES of Morlocks. Its been assumed that the Ferrum was a strike cruiser. My understanding 40k strike cruisers was that they could deploy only one company. If Ferrum could deploy TEN companies of TERMINATORS its something other than what we know as a "strike cruiser".

 

Sorry for all the yelling.

Yes and no. A strike cruiser in 30k is vastly more superior to a strike cruiser in 40k. The 40k versions were downgraded due to the general downgrading of the Legions to the Chapters and the constraints placed upon them. For example, a 40k strike cruiser is not supposed to be able to hold its own in void combat. In 30k, strike cruisers were expected to excel in void combat.

a logical explanation. Makes sense, any official fluff confirming this ?

More than a few. But most of it is crossover between BFG and BL. If you look at the specs for the 40k Strike Cruiser in BFG, it is a very weak ship in terms of firepower but has speed and some serious armor IIRC. And it can only carry 100 Space Marines. Or rather is only supposed to while Battle Barges can only carry 3-500 IIRC.

 

Then you have the Heresy counterparts such as the Covenant of Blood and the Echo of Damnation which could hold their own in void duels. You have the Word Bearers strike cruiser Infidus Diabolus, which at the beginning of Dark Apostle, held enough Word Bearers for two Hosts, which I think roughly equates to about 2000 Traitor Marines, give or take. And then you have the Dominus-class Battle-barge Ceres in Betrayer, an Ultramarines ship that is classed as being able to carry 5,000 troops. And then there is the Ferrum, shown above, holding say, 1,000 Troops. And then there are the Gloriana-class battle-barges Fidelitas Lex, Conqueror, Nightfall and Invincible Reason which are more than void war capable and in the case of the Conqueror, carries the 8th Company, the Devourers and the Triarii, with the last group being a standing counter-boarding company that equates to five full companies IIRC. So for the sake of argument, let's put the Devourers at full company strength, that would make it 700 troops. That's almost an entire Space Marine Chapter on one ship.

 

The thing we have to remember is that when the Imperium went through it's post-Heresy reform, the Space Marines gave up a ton of power. They were forced to organize into 1,000 strong Chapters and were no longer allowed to maintain fleets that could equal or better a comparable Naval ship of the same tonnage as well as only being allowed to maintain enough equipment that they can only deploy as rapid strike forces. That's why even the Ultramarines don't stick around to rebuild after fights in 40k. They can't afford to. And that fact combined with only two(maybe three) of the Legions acting in any kind of coherent fashion is why the popular belief that the Legions are dead exists and persists.

 

Essentially, just remember this. The Great Crusade was when anything was possible. In 40k, power means everything and some influential people did everything they could to make sure that power did not lie with the Space Marines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is an interesting point. Do we include ONLY Legion vessels or all Imperial Vessels snip
snip

Malika does have a point, the ships are already being supplied and for the most part it doesn't seem to be too many of them. But I think it would be easier to put them all in one big group that is named "Others" or something like that, and then have specific notes saying "SoS"(Sisters of Silence), or AM(Mechanicum), DM(Dark Mechanicus), EBG(Custodes) and IA for Imperial Army. Something small that we can put in paranthesis next to the ship name so it doesn't take up too much room. At least, if I did it, that might make it better. That way we just have to add a key at the bottom without making the table have 18 Legions and then a section for every single other faction listed even though that faction might have only one ship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hope these comply with what your after all findings are from The Horus Heresy collected visions

Haven't listed ships already listed unless additional or conflicting information is provided.

 

Ultra Marines

 

Gauntlet of ........

/Salute

 

I did not want to do all that work. Good job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, interesting takes there...

 

First off I would like to inform you that I'm adding the extra column titled "Notes". I have already done it for the DAs as a test and will gradually work it in the other Legions too throughout the day. In the notes section we need to add the SM Cmdr, the human captain and the status: i.e. active or destroyed. We can then add whatever other feature we feel like!

 

Secondly, I'd like to add the table "Other". This would substitute the first table (which I will place last) and will include everything from the Emperor's own vessels to Mechanicum and everything we can think of. How about that? ;)

 

Please remember that I'll need some time to update all the tables so I'd appreciate if you do send the info for the notes column to start filling it up!

 

To war!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait a minute wasn't "Shadow of the Emperor" detroyed over Istvaan (deliverence lost or some of the short storys about Corax flight) and in Cadian blood it's the "Second Shadow" in honur of the first ship that was detroyed?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, check out the DAs. This is what I envisage for all Legions - any help is most welcome...

 

@ Deus Ex Ferrum and Tyros: Nice finds guys - I have updated the relevant tables (not the "notes" column yet though)...

 

Keep'em coming guys, the more detail the better! :tu:

 

EDIT: Added notes for Emperor's Children

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well it's only ships listed as serving in the Heresy. If fluff that old specifically mentions them as being around for the Heresy, I don't see why it wouldn't be allowed as I don't think there can be anything that conflicts with it. Background is background and except for the major parts that conflict with current fluff, all of it should be valid regardless of how old it is.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.