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1500 gk list

mordrak incorporated

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#1
Castellan Alaric

Castellan Alaric

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first attempt at 1500 and i want to see how i can rock with mordrak.
HQ:
mordrak 200
2 ghost knights - 80
OMI - psyker, power armor, combi-plasma, psybolts 78
ELITES:
henchmen (11) - 8 bolters, 2 p-cannon servitors, 1 jokaero 95
TROOPS:
strikers - 2xPC, psybolts, hammer and halberd justicar - 255
strikers - 2xPC, psybolts, hammer and halberd justicar - 255
FAST ATTACK:
interceptors - 2xPC, psybolts - 300
HEAVY SUPPORT:
dread - 2xAC, psybolts - 135
FROTIFICATIONS:
ADL - quad gun - 100

total: 1498

Edited by Castellan Alaric, 17 January 2013 - 03:39 AM.


#2
Castellan Alaric

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so is the silence meant to convey the awesome of my list? lol i ended up winning the game on turns 4-7. psycannon fire is as reliable as a quad gun apparently lol

#3
Vash

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Congrats on the win. 

The only input I have is the Strikes. As far as I can see, their role is fire support. Adding an expensive hammer to the unit is not the "optimal" setting, in my game style atleast. Dealing with units/vehicles/creatures that require the use of hammers I leave to other units. 

I do understand the advantage to be all-round fighter with every unit, but I strongly believe that a unit with more focus on one aspect will be more effective, and supported by other units that compensates their weakness. 

 

I seldom use ADL or any other fortification. This due to the local "rules" that we dont allow them in tournaments. I rely on staying power of the terminators my self, and if I need cover I bolster a ruin or something similar with a techmarine. Terrain is something we have alot of. 

 

Personally, again, I dont really like to include a single dread. This due to the fact that the enemies I face usually bring atleast one or two lascannons (or similar). And guess what their target is... The only vehicle on the table. 

If I would bring dreads, I would include multiple vehicles/monstrous creatures, forcing the enemy anti-tank weapons to chose between targets. 


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#4
Castellan Alaric

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Thanks for the reply Vash! The win was largely due to the fact that my opponent was a tad incompetant on the rules of the game and his army in general, which disappointed me as a BT cuz his army was BT's. I totally get the more than 1 dready = better and i put it to good effect in a 2k game i played vs 'crons last sunday bringing 3 of them. i'll write that batrep up tonight in my modeling thread now that b&c's back up. I like my 2k and i will put it up in here for you to parooze too. Thanks vash, the hammer thing is a good point but i kinda modeled a dude up like that and don't want to change him lol so i'll just deal with the hammers in there for now. They have come in handy when my boys get into combat actually so i'll keep them included.



#5
Gentlemanloser

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Couple of personal opinions.

 

Don't use Mordrak.  Ever.  He's a liabilty in 6th edition.  If you really want first turn TDA DS with no scatter, use Belial. ;)

 

Add a secon Joker.

 

Drop the Psybolts on infantry.  Drop the Psycannons on the Interceptors.

 

Why pay 78 points for your OMI, when for 80 you get one in TDA with a Psycannon.


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#6
Castellan Alaric

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ok so in response to your opinions, i strongly disagree with dropping the psycannons on the interceptors. that's why i use them. get on a flank and suppress with psycannon fire. Mordrak is either way, in a game vs necrons he killed 2 command barges and their lords by himself before dying so he doubled his value. why would i customize a GKGM like him for more points and not have the 1st turn deep strike no scatter. OMI with psyker and TDA is 95pts dude, and i didn't have that many points left over. this isn't my best list but i don't think mordrak is a "never take" man. no he doesn't bring any units into the scoring fold, but paired with interceptors shunting to support can cripple a flank early in the game. my main thing is that he is only 200 points as opposed to a 275 draigo, and he has a hammer. that hammer has done serious damage in all my games i've played.

 

in 2k i have coteaz with a fully decked 3p-cannon/2joker/7bolter squad and another squad the same but with p-guns not cannons to stop mind-locking the whole unit. also included are 3 psyfle dreads, 2 strikes, 1 interceptors, vindicaire, techy w/beamer and mordrak+4ghosts. worked pretty well vs 2k of 'crons so i'm happy with my list building so far.



#7
Gentlemanloser

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Becuase Prescience rerolls on 2 Plasma Cannons is better than a TDA Psycannon?  Add PML1 to him (and it takes him to 110) and let it work on his own Psycannon as well.

 

Surpess with Psycannons?  Well, if there were rules for supressive fire, having a mobile Psycannon platform might be worth it.  At best, you waste a turn trying to get them into side/rear armour facings.  After which, your opponent reacts to them.

 

Interceptors should be moving.  That's what they're designed for, and why you take them over strikes.  As such, their Psycannons are half as effective. 

 

Hell, swap them for scoring Strikes, and Deep Strike then onto a Flank.  Then don't move them after your DS.

 

why would i customize a GKGM like him for more points and not have the 1st turn deep strike no scatter.

 

For when you play a decent player who;

 

1) Blocks LoS to anyone bar Mordrak

2) Uses Precision Shots

 

To kill Mordrak, and also make you remove the 80 points you spent in Ghosts Knights.  For free.

 

Mordrak is an utter liabilty in 6th.


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#8
Vash

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I agree that a OMI with PML1 and psycannon is king.

But on the Mordrak uselesness I dont agree with gentleman loser.

Sure you can use precision shots (inflicting a wound perhaps?) and use LoS to hit only Mordrak is something you could counter your self...

- By not deep striking anyway close to something that can instant kill Mordrak, ie Meltaguns, autocannons

- By placing Ghost knights infront/between LoS, making it impossible to only target Mordrak.

 

My question to you Gentleman loser, no offence, have you played a game yet? I remembered for some time ago that you hadnt played a single 6th edition game.

To make these LoS shots requires alot, specially if you know about it as the exposed player (mordrak). Coupled with Look out Sir! rule he is well protected.

I have used Mordrak several times, and I have never, never, lost him to LoS shooting. And trust me on this... My opponent have tried to abuse this rule, and they are no beginners, they are tournament winners many of them.

 

Interceptors with Psycannons are great. I usually combat squad them, and usually have one unit as a suicide squad. The unit with the psycannons usually takes this role. This is to shunt behind enemy tanks that are a big threat. Shunting is safe and can be done at great distances. Deep striking is a cheaper option, but not as safe.

This has worked out in my favour many times. For those 150 pts I save many other units. Sure they usually die after their rare attack, but... its the price I pay for safeguarding other units with this setup. Also... the enemy will be wasting a unit to take out this unit, perhaps 2? He wont like having them jumping around freely.

 

I personally, when I include interceptors I have two full units of Interceptors, one with psycannons, and one with incinerators. They are in my tactics usually one hitters sadly enough. Expensive ones. But they have been very useful every single time I have used them in this manner. I know it isnt the internet standard to have them as such. "Interceptors should be mobile fire power etc etc yadda yadda yadda". BORING and EXPECTED.

But, as I usually say, every gaming community have different playing styles/tactics/etc. What works for me, will most likely not work for you.


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If you want to help them, then burn them!"

 

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#9
Gentlemanloser

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Yeah, I've played quite a few games of 6th now.

 

It's especially easy to block LoS.  I do it all the time with my Razorbacks.  Heavy Weapon in the Squad?  Block LoS with a razor.  It's the best way to get around those units with a 2+ dude at the front to soak.  Block LoS to him with a Razor.

 

Don't forget, Mordraks Lo,S! is only 4+.

 

While it doesn't come up anywhere near as often, it's even easier with focus fire.  Just far more situational.

 

And now the Vindicare has been FAQed, I'd never touch Mordrak.  Never.

 

As I said, you want Mordrak, use Belial.


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#10
Castellan Alaric

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well unfortunately i'm not getting into DA anytime soon so using Belial as a solution isn't really viable for me. ya a vindy can precision shot can take him out, but what's 40k without risk. everything is calculating risk to reward. run coteaz as my warlord at 2k points and having mordrak+ghosts and a shunting interceptor unit is something you CANNOT ignore, freeing up time for your henchmen, riflemen and strikers to secure objectives and smoke anything in range. so his Lo,S is only a 4+ he still gets you grand strategy, a 4 wound - 4 attack model with a master crafted daemon hammer and the ability to take a bodyguard of termies. everyone i play against is always like "he can do what?" and are terrified and try to take him out with lots of their firepower (most of the time ineffectively - only lost him once out of 4 games). 

 

thanks for the backup vash, interceptors just might be my favorite units in the gk book. jump infantry, one-time 30" shunt move, and get any upgrades strikers get (including warp quake)?? yes please.



#11
Gentlemanloser

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Challenges.  I forgot Challenges.

 

Best to actually refuse challenges with Mordrak, as who wants to lose up to 200 additional points, when he loses and you lose an entire 5 man GKT squad becuase of it.

 

Really, what does Mordrak do?  That taking a GKGM (for TGS) and attaching him to a scoring unit of GKT can't?  The first turn DS?

 

I'd not take that, with the potential of losing 200 points instantly.  not worth the trade in the slightest.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Mordrak.  Most interesting Special character in ages.  I raved about him in 5th.  Now, he's so shockng bad for your own army, I can't accept how anyone allowed him to 'go live' as he did.


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#12
Vash

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Challenges.  I forgot Challenges.

 

Best to actually refuse challenges with Mordrak, as who wants to lose up to 200 additional points, when he loses and you lose an entire 5 man GKT squad becuase of it.

 

Really, what does Mordrak do?  That taking a GKGM (for TGS) and attaching him to a scoring unit of GKT can't?  The first turn DS?

 

I'd not take that, with the potential of losing 200 points instantly.  not worth the trade in the slightest.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love Mordrak.  Most interesting Special character in ages.  I raved about him in 5th.  Now, he's so shockng bad for your own army, I can't accept how anyone allowed him to 'go live' as he did.

In a challange you need to have S8 to instant kill Mordrak, and if you dont have S8, you need a force weapon, and if you dont have a force weapon you need 18 attacks with you character (and WS7, S5 AP2 weapon) to kill Mordrak in a challange (I for one dont know a character who has 18 attacks...)

So... I will accept many challanges and issue many challenges. Not many characters I meet fullfill these above statemants.

And to be honest... with Deep striking with no scatter, Why would I deep strike close to something that can instant kill me?

 

4 wounds will get you far, and the 4++ save even further. The thunder hammer with force weapon ability is something other characters fear.

I have a question here again Gentleman loser. Have you even tried Mordrak more than once? On paper he blows, reading on internet he blows, but what is your true experience with him?

I have read so many posts about different units/characters, some times they are spot on how good/bad they are, and some times it just totally wrong. It might be me who is doing it wrong/right, or it might be that people cant think outside the box, and needs others to think for them.

 

Now all I can say, if Mordrak works for Castellan Alaric, why do you try to convince him that it is bad? He has made it work for him. Ask your self instead, what did Alaric do right, or even, what did his opponent do wrong? Funny thing is, two different players (me and Alaric) from different regions have had success with Mordrak in 6th edtion. I have around 6 games with him, lost one game. And in that game Mordrak didnt die... he was in the wrong place, and couldnt support as much as I wanted. Out of the 6 games I have played, Mordrak has died 2 times. And in of those 2 times, in one of those games he did acctually die before all the other Ghost knights had died. I think I had 2 ghost knights left who could have/protected Mordrak. But then again... these two where bonus ghosts from wounds inflicted on him.

 

But I will agree, Belail is better in every way. Better save, and better rules. Also, Mordrak isnt the best and optimal character in the GK arsenal, I will give you that too. A Grand Master can to some extent and with some luck, get similar results. Servo-skulls can reduce scatter to aid a Grand Master for example, and these are dirty cheap.


"Show no mercy for witches, they are doomed anyway...
If you want to help them, then burn them!"

 

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#13
Gentlemanloser

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CA asked for feedback.  Mordrak being a liability is my feedback.  Don't use it, but don't dismiss it off hand.

 

for the lolz we did a few 'herohammer' face offs for challenges.  It's not about killing Mordrak in a single combat round.

 

Not in the slightest.

 

It's about tying the *entire* unit up, as you keep them in CC until the challenge is over.  And once you kill Mordrak, the *entire* unit goes *poof*.

 

200 points of TDA.

 

Gone.

 

For *nothing*.

 

And there are many good character killers in the dexes.  One's that will wipe the floor with Mordrak (over sucessive turns) and destroy 400 points of your army for doing so.

 

Have I ever tried him in 6th?  Of course not.  Why on earth would I?  I would be gifting my opponent a massive amount of points.


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#14
Vash

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Tie him up over several turns would mean that Mordraks Ghost knights have time to do some damage. And Mordrak isnt bound to accept any challanges at all. He can deny, and sit back and let the Ghost knights take the punnishment if it would be so that the character in question will kill Mordrak. So I dont see any issue with Challanges as Mordrak can chicken out. So the "poof" of ghost knights will not occure when I play him. A good player, heck a player with some extent of knowledge how he should use Mordrak, will understand when to back down from a challenge, where to deep strike, how to place his fellow ghost knights to protect their gimp of a leader :)

 

And if you are trying to kill him with precision strikes, thats just a long shot if you ask me. You need highly specialized units to acctually pull that off to work very well. Hammernators is one such example where that would work... question is... why in the world would they ever get into close combat with Mordrak? If they do, congrats :)

Rending attack units perhaps. Nids, Black knights etc. Black knights have 40 attacks on the charge. Probably lowering WS on their way in. Hitting on 3+. 4-5 attacks will precision strikes, and perhaps one will actually rend...

My point is... it is darn hard to kill Mordrak just by singeling him out to get the "poof" effect. Its easier to kill him and his unit with something that can handle them as a whole. Which is pretty much anything with AP2, which is pretty abundant in 40k. Plasmas, meltas, lascannons, power fists, etc.

 

And again I agree, Mordrak isnt the best. But I refuse to agree that he will die easy as ppl on this forum claim due the LoS rules and Precision strikes (forget challenges... he wont accept unless he wants to). But if ppl keep on telling me that its easy to pull off, well then... either my whole gaming comunity of over 50 players (many frequent nation wide tournament players and high ranking players) are complete retards, or it might be so... that our gaming communities play completly differently.

 

All I can say, its a game. Winning isnt all. Try him out in 6th edition, and acctually play to win and not prove me or Alaric wrong. See if you can keep Mordrak alive and acctually do something useful with him. If you lose, well you might be right, he totally sucks and cant be used, or you might get some insight of what me and Alaric are experiencing.

Sadly enough... I dont use him much anymore, as I am leaning over to Coteaz and either a Librarian or OM Inquisitor (psykers "spam")


"Show no mercy for witches, they are doomed anyway...
If you want to help them, then burn them!"

 

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#15
Gentlemanloser

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Tie him up over several turns would mean that Mordraks Ghost knights have time to do some damage.

 

Maybe.  Depends on if the Challenger was a lone unit (DP/NDK/Etc), who just wanted to stop the TH member of the unit swinging, while it ate the Terminators.

 

Or who cares if the GKT beat on the chaff that escorted the CC monster (like an IG blob/Cultists)

 

And Mordrak isnt bound to accept any challanges at all.

 

Which is why I said 'don't' above. ;)

 

Just don't.  Too easy to lose your entire unit, if Mordrak dies to a challenge.  It's a stupid risk to take.

 

But I refuse to agree that he will die easy as ppl on this forum claim due the LoS rules and Precision strikes

 

I honestly don't think enough people are manpulating LoS for thier own use.  It's so easy to do.

 

This should be up there in a "Changes to 6th" Tactica that someone should produce.


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#16
Castellan Alaric

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ok i'm gonna weigh in on the challenge phase. i recently played BT and mordrak+2ghosts got charged by 3 LC/2 TH/SS termies with a termy chappy leading them. i challenged the chappy, cuz even with him having 6 attacks on the charge, he had a maul (ap4 - useless) and only ended up wounding 1 time, ironically i failed it and got another ghost knight lol and i killed a lc termy. back to the challenge: after i took the wound i pulped the chappy into nothing cuz i'm s8 and he has a 4+ invul, i'm hitting on 3s with 4 base attacks? dead chappy. if it would have been something with a hammer or fist i wouldn't have risked it at all (bad idea) even with the iron halo.

 

now i did ask for some critique GL but not basically calling me an idiot for taking a certain character, that i have had success with. not everything i take is gold but i'm having success with him so i'll probably continue to include him in most of my lists. i have recently taken a liking to coteaz as well. for 100 points i don't think there's a better hq in the game.

 

in the future i'll try a gkgm with some termies and try some of the same stuff and see if there's a difference in performance of mordrak vs a gkgm loaded out for deep strike with some servo skulls.



#17
Gentlemanloser

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I'm sorry you feel I insulted you personally.  I didn't, and never intended to.

 

I'll offer no more insight on Mordrak for you.


QUOTE (Seahawk @ Jul 30 2011, 05:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
We all feel different ways about different rules, but if you're traveling between different gaming groups or to tournaments, the only commonality is the rules as they are written. If you can get your opponent to agree with you on house-ruling something then that changes things, but until then all we can do is go by how things are written.

#18
Castellan Alaric

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look dude, don't just run away like that, i know you didn't mean to but ya did. so own it and move on. what vash and i are trying to get across is before you discount something completely just try it out. i know mordrak isn't the best gkgm out there, he's not an IC (which makes no sense btw) and his guys aren't scoring and disappear when he dies, but a first turn deep strike with no scatter is pretty awesome. especially if you get lucky rolling on the personal warlord  trait and get scoring you have a scoring 4w 2+/4++ model with a retinue of ghostly guys who can spawn more guys? that doesn't equal "don't use ever." imo man. anywho rant over. 






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