Incoming Heresy models

[depthcharge12]

Guys guys guys!

 

It is a veritable heresy Christmas! Check out the new models and sets at forge world!

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff

 

What do you think?

 

I am glad of the new weapon packs and finally some bundles with reduced cost! And heavy weapons squads painted in WE colors!

 

Hehhehehe more resin coke sniff.........(poster has been wheeled off by the nice men in white coats).....

 

Blam!.....(posters wallet committing suicide)

[Vesper]

No Abaddon. Not interested.

[Legatus]

Eh. Multi-meltas and handheld plasma cannons used to not be available during the Crusade and heresy era and had been developed after the Heresy, but whatever, there's model kits to be sold.

[Pavement Artist]

Eh. Multi-meltas and handheld plasma cannons used to not be available during the Crusade and heresy era and had been developed after the Heresy, but whatever, there's model kits to be sold.

 

I'm fairly bloody certain that a luna wolf uses a plasma cannon all manly manual like in Horus Rising. They are allowed to alter things slightly. Plus this means you can have slightly archaic looking weapons of the same type in a 40k army.

 

You've got to understand that just because something was stated in a source book from the 90's, doesn't mean it's the absolute gospel now. Isn't it better having big ass plasma cannons to hand? 

[Jim AMM realgenius]

No Abaddon. Not interested.

Seriously!  They even showed it in the latest WD. 

 

WHEN FW, WHEN?!?

 

Enough already, you're holding up my whole order.

[Legatus]

I'm fairly bloody certain that a luna wolf uses a plasma cannon all manly manual like in Horus Rising. They are allowed to alter things slightly.

 

But why, if a previous source explicitely explained that certain items were developed after the Heresy, so that Chaos Marines would wield the more "archaic" weaponry from ten thousand years ago and Imperial Marines would wield more "modern" weapons, why then remove those differences and give all the weapons to heresy era Marines as well? Does it improve the story in any way? I put it to you that it diminishes the story, that it was much more interesting when those differences did exist and you had the ten thousand year old renegade forces that had ancient weaponry, and that the changes to unitize pre-heresy and post-heresy wargear is entirely based either on the ignorance of artists or authors who put those items in their work or on the desire to sell different model kits to players, so they have to get sets of 6 different heavy weapons instead of 4 different heavy weapons.

[Nova_Dew]

It also dose not make sense that an Imperium that is noted for its decline in technology after the Heresy that was at its fulcrum of sophistication technologically speaking developed new technology that in various other sources is poorly understood at best.... I am looking at you plasma based weaponry

[Kol Saresk]

Let's see, 30k was supposed to be the pinnacle of the Imperium's technology and civilization. 40k was supposed to see serious technological decline as well as becoming a failure of civilization. And yet it's supposed to make more sense that the Imperium was inventing technology during the decline?

 

On topic, my wishlist just got bigger. A lot bigger.

[TheForgottenAngel]

I'm just pissed I bought so many special weapons packs for the missile launchers and now this!!! Not to me tion the kneeling heavy support marines! Badass and I want!

[Legatus]

Let's see, 30k was supposed to be the pinnacle of the Imperium's technology and civilization. 40k was supposed to see serious technological decline as well as becoming a failure of civilization. And yet it's supposed to make more sense that the Imperium was inventing technology during the decline?

 

There are not 8 marks of power armour because the Imperium gradually lost the knowledge to make them during the Great Crusade. There are 8 marks of power armour because the Space Marine weapon technology in particular was still being refined and developed at that time. A lot of developments were only brought to working stage after the Heresy.

[Kol Saresk]

Yes, but your first post implies that you are uninterested in plasma and multimeltas being in a Heresy era army because the technologies weren't invented yet in an older source, which would then mean that in the older source, the declining Imperium while was developing and producing superior technology when it wasn't supposed to have the capabilities to do so unlike now when the technology already existed in the Heresy era but was still either being tested or on the drawing boards and it was only later after ten thousand or so years of refinement that it is being produced. Although IIRC the Mk VIII is just now hitting the shelves and as such, there is supposed to be a rather limited number currently being used.

 

However, it could simply be that I misunderstood your post, in which case would you then correct my misconceptions?

[depthcharge12]

@crusaderweber

Sorry bro about the individual purchases, but now we at least have them or FW and this forum would never hear the end of it.

 

I'm glad that they are starting to make these "bundles" with the emergence of the HH books and avid gamers as alll the individual purchases were tedious and more expensive.

 

Unfortunately I'm still waiting (might not happen but hey) for attachable ccws for despoiler squads since the mkiv one is a mixed bag. And just using the bayonets on the bolters doesnt feel like it counts and would confuse my opponent. I'd really like it if they came out with WE axes in a held position instead of the loose ones for chaos.

 

I definitely see the assault squad package as a definite help to those building a SoH asm core (where's cmdr Shepard when I need him?! :lol: )

 

As for the plasma cannons tbh I don't have too much inclination to the argument either way but like the old styles coming out. I think that the multi meltas didn't come till after the heresy but I thought I remember some WEs holding plasma cannons and heavy bolters during the drop site massacre when they were getting bum rushed by the citizens (flight of the Eisenstein? Anyone? Can someone check I don't have my book)

 

However I was born in the 90s and was only interested in jurassic park so I need some neckbeards' experience with the og statement however WTH happened to the squats? I thought that during the early crusade that spess mahreens fought them in cc combat (i just mean restricted areas like mines and space hulks) and needed the MK3 armor developed

 

But who knows? Stuff might get retconned....it's not the 90s anymore

 

Back on topic...do you guys think that Loken and Abaddon will get released together with the diorama base? I have a feeling if that is true...then they will release all heroes of each legion in a similar fashion (like the champ and MoS came together)

[Vesper]

 

Back on topic...do you guys think that Loken and Abaddon will get released together with the diorama base? I have a feeling if that is true...then they will release all heroes of each legion in a similar fashion (like the champ and MoS came together)

 

Hope not, it would suck. I don't want to pay 25 bucks just to have that crappy Loken.

 

On another topic, the new quote system is like the worst thing ever. The guys from IPB should be ashamed to call that an "upgrade".

[Legatus]

Yes, but your first post implies that you are uninterested in plasma and multimeltas being in a Heresy era army because the technologies weren't invented yet in an older source, which would then mean that in the older source, the declining Imperium while was developing and producing superior technology when it wasn't supposed to have the capabilities to do so unlike now when the technology already existed in the Heresy era but was still either being tested or on the drawing boards and it was only later after ten thousand or so years of refinement that it is being produced. Although IIRC the Mk VIII is just now hitting the shelves and as such, there is supposed to be a rather limited number currently being used.

 

However, it could simply be that I misunderstood your post, in which case would you then correct my misconceptions?

 

I... am not sure I can adequately untangle that incredibly long sentence. What I am saying is that I very much preferred the notion that the Chaos Space Marines are not just an exact copy of Imperial Space Marines with added spikes, but Space Marines from a long gone and ancient era. And that also meant that they had more ancient weaponry. Space Marines had only been around for a very short time before the Heresy, so their technology was still being developed. Or it was still being discovered, whatever you prefer. What that resulted in was a separation into one Space Marine force that had very powerful models through daemonic improvements and demons as support, and one Space Marine force with more advanced weaponry. On the one hand that made for a nice gameplay difference between Chaos Marines and Imperial Marines, and on the other hand it gave the Chaos Marines a nice archaic feel. If Chaos Marines now get all the equipment of the loyalists, they will just be "Space Marines+", with the same army list just with much more stuff.

[AekoldHelbrass]

Eh. Multi-meltas and handheld plasma cannons used to not be available during the Crusade and heresy era and had been developed after the Heresy, but whatever, there's model kits to be sold.

They were available for Chaos Dreadnoughts since forever. So obviously they were not developed after the heresy, they just got worn of in 10 000 years of usage. The same goes with Assault Cannon, it was replaced with older Reaper Autocannons only because it was glitchy and had to replace all barrels after every combat, making maintenance not worthy of the benefits.

 

The only thing that really got developed after the Heresy was Storm Shield I suppose. Even Storm Ravens background section says it is really old design which was lost for a very long time, and discovered quite recently. No idea about Storm Talon though.

[Legatus]

Chaos Dreadnoughts got the multi-meltas in the 3rd Edition Codex Chaos Space Marines. That may have been an honest mistake, seeing as there would still not be a Chaos multi-melta model around throughout the following editions.

 

For anyone interested, here is the description from the 2nd Edition Codex, p. 71/72:

 

When the Legions began re-equipping, a number of weapons which would come to be in common use later were still experimental or even purely theoretical. Many other weapons relied on sciences that were barely understood but which had been found in ancient vaults of dark technology and copied for general use. For example, the traitor Legions had no access to Melta bombs or multi-meltas, but melta-guns were commonly available. Likewise, portable (though dangerous) plasma guns and even pistols existed but heavy plasma guns [note: now known as 'plasma cannons'] could only be mounted on a Dreadnought or a vehicle.

 

As a result the Legions were most heavily equipped with weapons which were well understood, solid and reliable. Autocannon were favoured as simple but deadly weapons that could be easily carried by a Space Marine in power armour. Heavy bolters could cut a swathe through any enemy troops, though they lacked the Hellfire shells the Adeptus Mechanicus developed ten millennia later to kill the genetically enhanced Tyranids.

 

Lascannons remained in use as the faithful tank killers they always had been and missile launchers were widely used because they could destroy both vehicles and troops with their different missiles, though Melta missiles were still unknown at that time. Targeters were bulky and prone to malfunctions so most heavy weapons were not fitted with them. [note: in 2nd Edition, all loyalist heavy weapons had targeters, granting essentially +1 WS, whereas Chaos heavy weapons did not get them]

 

Conversely, the Space Marine Legions at the time of the Heresy used a more diverse variety of assault weapons from the Crusade, including power maces and chain-axes which have become virtually unknown in the Imperium in the 41st millennium. Power swords were an exception to this as the secrets of their manufacture were still lost, making any that were uncovered rare and valued artefacts. Blind grenades, Photon Flash flares and Melta bombs were also exceptionally rare and seldom seen on the battlefield.

 

The weaponry used by Terminator squads was very different during the Heresy as tactical Dreadnought armour was still under development at that time. Only after centuries more warfare did Terminators emerge with the Assault cannon, storm bolters, Cyclone missile launchers and Thunder Hammers which became their hallmark within the Imperium.

[Nexus25]

Ok, one I love the new stuff FW is bringing out for the HH. I would buy it all if I did not have these pesky bills.

 

My next statement is based alot more in common sense so very "UN-GRIMDARK."

If the traitor Legions have most of the gear they had during the HH should not some of the really fun weapons from the FW HH book not be in atleast some of the warbands/Traitor groups. I mean they still have the Dark Mech and some marines from the Heresy would still be packing a Volkite or graviton weapon to say the least. That is my stance on back dating weapons, someone have something cool hidden away traitor or loyal. Just make it a cool reason and play on.

[Augustus]

"Invented" technology post Heresy = they found some STC source and "rediscovered" technology.  There are some things that shouldn't be thrown into to 30k setting.

[Kol Saresk]

But if it's "rediscovered" then how do you know that it wasn't originally discovered or even invented in 30k when human technology was at one of its highest peaks since the Golden Age?

[Hyperion]

@Legatus - by that text there should be virtually no power swords either. Think I'll stick with the retcon that almost everything was available, and then a lot of things were gradually lost by 40k.

[Vardus]

...... and more Heresy bits inbound ..................

 

Rampager Squad, Legion MKIII shoulder pads and Death Guard Cataphractii shoulder pads.

 

Follow link in op! (Long time since posting on any forum boards, can't blinkin' remember how to do links)

[JeffJedi]

The Rampager Squad looks great. Unmasked MKII wearing Psychos.

[spu00sed]

Damn you forge world.

 

I can now have an entire army in mark II/II war plate, when I allready have a squad in mark IV.

 

And it looks like my cataphractii will soon have Legion shoulder pads, and my mark III now have mark III shoulders, rather than mark II, though I'm not changing them.

[Kol Saresk]

Is it me or do all of the Rampagers look like mini Amgrons?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don't like the heads at all. Paint job could have been a lot better too.