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1750 - Null Deploy (almost) Competitive List.


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#26
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Was this the killer Eldar list that made you blush in your last tournament? tongue.png

 

Nah, very different list and different player. 

 

 

small correction on the above list, it was 1 wraithseer, 2 wrathlords, and then 2 warwalkers.

 How did you handle the wraithlords? 

 

I have 12 Melta weapons and Mephiston in this list. Also, frag cannons.  Albeit all of these are close range, but they worked. Mephy took out one, and the jumpers and dreads took out the other from shooting. 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

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#27
SamaNagol

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How fixed are you to using a pure BA list?

 

I've been playing a Null Deploy list since I picked up 6th having not played any 5th really....

 

Wolves do Pods so well. And they are great for tanking as well, by flinging Terminator sergeants in each troop unit.


Edited by SamaNagol, 16 February 2013 - 10:10 PM.


#28
SamaNagol

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Here, I just chucked this together...

 

I'll give it a run myself and see how it goes

 

BA Primary

 

 

Mephiston (Warlord)

250pts


Corbulo

105pts


Furioso Dread

Frag Cannon

Meltagun

Magna Grapple

Drop Pod

175pts


Furioso Dread

Frag Cannon

Meltagun

Magna Grapple

Drop Pod

175pts


7 Death Company

2 Axes

Drop Pod

205pts


Death Company Dreadnought

Talons

Drop Pod

160pts


SPACE WOLF ALLIES


Rune Priest

Jaws

Living Lightning

100pts


8 Wolf Guard

*WGPL*

Terminator Armour Combi-Plasma & Power Axe

Terminator Armour Combi-Plasma & Power Axe

*separates as unit in pod**

Terminator Armour Heavy Flamer & Power Axe

Terminator Armour Combi-Plasma & Chain Fist

Power Armour & Combi-Plasma

Power Armour & Combi-Plasma & Melta Bombs

Power Armour & Combi-Melta

Power Armour & Combi-Melta

Drop Pod

299pts


8 Grey Hunters

Plasma Gun

Wolf Banner

MOTW

Drop Pod

190pts


7 Grey Hunters

Plasma Gun

Wolf Banner

MOTW

Drop Pod

175pts

 

One less scoring unit but the whole army is basically WAY more survivable against AP3 Baleflamers. And in 1750pt games with this much scary stuff, I can't imagine your troops will be singled out. 4 pods down in the first turn with a withering amount of close range firepower. And you get access to Jaws =)

 

I was kinda averse to running Dreadnoughts in 6th, but putting down 3 of them is a different matter entirely I guess! Unless they are getting rear shots, that S6 and S7 firepower is water off a duck's back for those Furiosos.



#29
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I think that is incredible

 

Its a full pod list, which means there are no rerolls for reserves, but the theory of it is sound.  This list is actually legit as all hell Sama. 

I may need some more pods. 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

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#30
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Just realised the version you posted is 2k, though yeh?


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#31
knife&fork

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Waaay too much pts invested in that wolfguard unit for what it will do. The reasoning is sound but the equipment needs reworking, less one-shot plasma in particular. Heavy flamers and meltas of any kind is a really good idea for the most effective synergy when dropping. 

 

Goes for the Allied HQ as well, he can take runic armor, right? 


Edited by knife&fork, 17 February 2013 - 08:04 PM.

24 years of Blood Angels

#32
SamaNagol

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If you drop the Melta Bomb from the Wolf Guard and give the rune Priest the 2+ armour it is 1849 exactly..... Looks like 2000 though doesnt it. That's the beauty of Space Wolves msn-wink.gif

 

The WolfGuard unit works like a Sternguard unit. And it is pretty well costed for what it does. If I were to reduce it at all, it would be to drop one Terminator with the Chain Fist. At 1500pts I run just the Heavy Flamer and Axe Terminator and the 5 combi weapon marines.

 

I get good mileage out of the Combi- Plasma Guns. I understand what you are saying about the 1 shot weapons, and I would love it if I could take Plasmaguns like Sternguard, but Wolf Guard are so much cheaper than Sternguard it's a no-contest for me. And with the Terminators in the unit, they offer a way bigger threat post Turn 1 alpha strike.


Edited by SamaNagol, 17 February 2013 - 08:22 PM.


#33
SamaNagol

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6 Wolf Guard

Terminator with Heavy Flamer and Axe

Terminator with Combi-Plasma & Chain Fist

4 in Power Armour with Combi-weapons

178pts

 

6 Sternguard

5 in Power Armour with Combi-Weapons

1 in Power Armour with Heavy Flamer

Power Fist

210pts

 

That's how I look at it



#34
knife&fork

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Just not a fan of the semi-death star approach with combi weapons. Cover eat up the casualties and all that plasma will either overkill a transport or not kill something tougher well enough.  

 

Can you take more than one WGPL in each squad of grey hunters?


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#35
SamaNagol

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Tournament boards rarely have enough cover to stop you getting clear shots. Especially with the 6" disembark now. Either way, you can get that First Blood pretty easily. I don't mind paying 200pts for that. And the unit hangs around and is troublesome in assault afterwards.

 

I've just noticed that this is meant to be 1750, I mustve been in a daze last night!

 

Mephiston
250pts


Corbulo
105pts


Furioso Dread
Frag Cannon
Meltagun
Magna Grapple
Drop Pod
175pts


Furioso Dread
Frag Cannon
Meltagun
Magna Grapple
Drop Pod
175pts


7 Death Company
2 Axes
Drop Pod
205pts


Death Company Dreadnought
Talons
Drop Pod
160pts

Rune Priest
100pts


7 Wolf Guard
Terminator Armour Combi-Plasma & Power Axe
Terminator Armour Combi-Plasma & Power Axe
Terminator Armour Heavy Flamer & Power Axe
Power Armour & Combi-Plasma
Power Armour & Combi-Plasma
Power Armour & Combi-Melta
Power Armour & Combi-Melta
Drop Pod
241pts


8 Grey Hunters
Plasma Gun
Wolf Banner
Drop Pod
175pts


7 Grey Hunters
Plasma Gun
Wolf Banner
Drop Pod
160pts

 

That's 1750. With the Magna Grapple Fragiosos I don't feel the need for loads of Melta in that WG pack to be that pressing. You should be able to get rear armour shots on most vehicles.

 

If you hold back the DC and the Grey Hunters and bring down the Dreads and the Wolf Guard Turn 1 you can cripple most forces severely. By the time your Pods all come in there wont be enough turns to easily handle 8 Grey Hunters and a Terminator. It works really well in tournaments as well with most of your impact coming in turn 1 and 2.

 

And no, just the one WG per GH pack


Edited by SamaNagol, 17 February 2013 - 08:47 PM.


#36
knife&fork

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Tournament boards rarely have enough cover to stop you getting clear shots. Especially with the 6" disembark now. Either way, you can get that First Blood pretty easily. I don't mind paying 200pts for that. And the unit hangs around and is troublesome in assault afterwards.

 

I've just noticed that this is meant to be 1750, I mustve been in a daze last night!

 

-------

 

That's 1750. With the Magna Grapple Fragiosos I don't feel the need for loads of Melta in that WG pack to be that pressing. You should be able to get rear armour shots on most vehicles.

 

If you hold back the DC and the Grey Hunters and bring down the Dreads and the Wolf Guard Turn 1 you can cripple most forces severely. By the time your Pods all come in there wont be enough turns to easily handle 8 Grey Hunters and a Terminator. It works really well in tournaments as well with most of your impact coming in turn 1 and 2.

 

And no, just the one WG per GH pack

 

How can you guarantee rear AV? An opponent can always block at least one facing and the pods need a 5"-ish bubble to touch down before you can even disembark. Not to mention there's always a risk deepstriking close to the board edge. Normal deployment zone aren't super huge and a crafty opponent will likely hug the edges if possible to make things difficult for you.  Expect counter reserves and fast melta to ruin your day.

 

I hope there's no hard feelings but I think you aren't considering some of these options in the drop pod heavy context of the list. Having ample good anti AV (melta) is crucial with no backup in the form of Long fangs, devs or preds. You don't want the game to hang in the balance of a few rolls. A furioso alone for example can't really handle a meched up squad. He'll most likely wreck their transport but then they'll just pour out and shoot him next turn. Unless there are some really juicy exposed targets, infantry tend to make for a better first wave.

 

I still think the core concept is solid, it's a matter of tweaks. 

For instance, if possible I'd like to see a heavy flamer on each of the WGPL, and perhaps a second priest by trimming the WG.

 

 

EDIT: Or maybe get more terminator WG with cyclones? That would be a really good support unit in a pod list even if they are few in number.


Edited by knife&fork, 17 February 2013 - 09:20 PM.

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#37
SamaNagol

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At the moment I play 1500pts in the UK and am not using any Dreadnoughts.

 

I have 3 GH squads, 2 with Plasma one with Melta, plus the WG squad with 2 Melta, 3 Plasma and a Heavy Flamer Terminator. Plus the DC. 5 pods.



#38
knife&fork

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A lot more ablative wounds on those meltas in your list. Have you tried dreads at any time? I think it would be problematic making them work in lower points.

 

Interesting how much the dynamics changes in those 250 pt steps... 2k-1750-1500...


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#39
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Yeah I have stayed entirely away from Dreads at 1500. I was going to run dual Furiosos at 1500 but I found it more cost effective to stick in Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard instead to do a similar job. And they don't die to a single Lascannon shot or Plasma to the rear armour.

 

At 1750 I find you can afford to put more threats down on the table and certain things tend to become more effective. Being able to drop down 3 Dreads in one list is a lot to deal with. The AV13 spam mech list as well follows this.

 

I think BA and Wolves work really well together because the Wolves offer some great cheap options, and the BA have some really useful additions. The fact DC are Troops really makes them awesome as a Primary or Secondary detachment because it fills up your required Troops slots.

 

In any BA/SW alliance I will most likely always be taking 2 GH packs 1 DC unit a Rune Priest and Mephiston. So I can really alternate between either as Primary if I want.

 

Taking BA as Primary to get access to multiple Dreads or multiple Ravens and Baals is fine because the DC take up one slot and you would want them anyway.



#40
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Has any of you playtested those lists already? Do you feel the lack of stormravens?



#41
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Has any of you playtested those lists already? Do you feel the lack of stormravens?

 

Ive playtested a 2500point version of the first list (which includes 4 hyperios launchers, 10tacs, 2ravens and an aegis line with comm), and then the one on post #20.   

 

(Mephiston

3x Fragiosos - Magna/MG 

Pod

10x DC - 3 Axes

Pod

10 TAC - MG, MM, Axe, Cmbi Plas

Pod

10 ASM - 2MG, Fist

10 ASM - 2MG, Axe )

 

In the second game I didnt feel the loss of the Raven at all.  The 2 flyers my opponents had went totally unmolested, but the forward pressure on the opponent was such that it wasnt necessary to worry about them.  Ill have to see how it goes vs. a Necron type flyer spam list.


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#42
SamaNagol

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It's even better against Necrons because you are in combat with your first wave turn 2 when their Flyers come in, and their flyers come in in drabs whereas your Assault Marines come in turn 2 89% of the time. It's really effective against Necrons. Wraiths are scared of Death Company. Keep Meph away from Mind Shackle Scarabs though lol

 

It's even more fun with Wolves and Jaws.



#43
knife&fork

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The fragiosos don't like necrons.... :(


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#44
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The fragiosos don't like necrons.... sad.png

 

At 1750 I rate a multi-frag list will have little to no probs with Crons. Especially if one of those three pods is a DC/ASM squad too.  


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#45
knife&fork

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The fragiosos don't like necrons.... sad.png

 

At 1750 I rate a multi-frag list will have little to no probs with Crons. Especially if one of those three pods is a DC/ASM squad too.  

 

How? Just about every cron list here includes a couple of storm crypteks in croissants. Both the unit and the flyer are tough to deal with and crons overall are quite resilient in both CC and shooting. Then there's allies to plug the gaps.  

 

Not saying that they unbeatable but I certainly think they are one of the worst matchups besides an IG list going melta instead of plasma-heavy. A lot will depend on those reanimation protocol rolls.


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#46
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The fragiosos don't like necrons.... sad.png

 

At 1750 I rate a multi-frag list will have little to no probs with Crons. Especially if one of those three pods is a DC/ASM squad too.  

 

How? Just about every cron list here includes a couple of storm crypteks in croissants. Both the unit and the flyer are tough to deal with and crons overall are quite resilient in both CC and shooting. Then there's allies to plug the gaps.  

 

Not saying that they unbeatable but I certainly think they are one of the worst matchups besides an IG list going melta instead of plasma-heavy. A lot will depend on those reanimation protocol rolls.

 

My thinking is about what is on the table.

With those storm crypteks in Croissants with some crons, there is going to be little on the board to take on your dreads. If you go first, and the enemy is playing heavy Nec-AirMech, then youve even got a chance to get rid of the stuff on the board.  

 

That being said, I dont know what the long term game would look like with fliers about and your pods then down.  Would depend a lot on the mission, but then positioning of terrain and objectives are also factors to consider. 


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#47
SamaNagol

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Those Croissants aren't coming on til turn 2 earliest, which means you will get a nice full turn of shooting at his selection of deployed units. And if he doesn't get those Cryptek's on and down in just the right spot, you're probably going to be in combat next turn as well.

 

When I have played Necrons in the last couple of months, it has mostly been mixed mech with only 3-4 flyers and Annhilation Barges with Wraiths/Dest Lord. And they tell me they really don't like playing drop pod marines at all.



#48
Ushtarador

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I like the droppod-style, but I still don't see what you would do against Coteaz plus warp quake. It feels almost like an auto-lose to me if you don't get first turn, isn't that bad for competitive play?:o

#49
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I like the droppod-style, but I still don't see what you would do against Coteaz plus warp quake. It feels almost like an auto-lose to me if you don't get first turn, isn't that bad for competitive play?ohmy.png

 

Against a warp quake list you're 100% right.  Thats my nemesis list. 

Id need to go first to be honest.  

With corteas in as well, it would depend on what kind of retinue he had and what the set up is.  

 

Thats the gamble Id take though going into a tourney


Gamist, cheesy, beardy or broken; If Games Workshop put it in the book I'll gladly play against it, or with it. - Mort
"Use soft words and hard arguments." (Henry George Bohn [1796-1884].)

There is no harm in, on occasion, having disagreements. It's another thing entirely, however, to be a tool in conveying that disagreement.

"OP: The term used by players to describe a combination of yours they are personally unable to beat"

Collection of Battle Reports
Corbulo Tactica

#50
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I just mention this because I played against a friend last week who brought 5 dreadnoughts and coteaz with 3 MM-servitors (amongst an attack squad and other things). It was a lunch game and thus too early for me to think clearly, so I deepstruck my fragioso next to coteaz transport - it obviously didn't go well :/

 

It made me think though about how hard this list would get countered if he went first. He can cover everything but 1/8 or so of the table with either warp quake or coteaz, and he has a 33% chance of seizing. But then I'm not sure how common warp quake and multimeltas are in the tournament scene, my friend has this ability to create weird but extremely effective lists that you never see from someone else .)