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[Bonzi]

This is hopefully going to become something of a WIP post about me learning how to play a Noise Marine based army.  Eventually I will have pics of my conversions and painted units but to start with it is mostly going to be a discussion of unit reviews, list building, tactics, strategies, and test battle reports.  Anyone should feel free to chip in their two cents whenever they feel like it.

 

Where it started:

I played extensively in the 5^th under the banner of the Blood Angles.  I loved the mobility of the army most of all.  It complemented my play style to be able to shift my armies focus on the fly and to be able to pull back or push forward as needed.  By the end of the 5^th I was burnt on CC and was looking for something more balanced or shooting oriented, which was handy when 6^th ed dropped and shooting became so dominant.

After buying the Dark Vengeance box and the CSM codex I was pretty hooked on the idea of Chaos.  I liked the customization options and the opportunity to run a horde MEQ army.  I ran a couple games with lots of bare bones 10 man CSM plasma squads with bikes and lots of havocks.  I didn’t play well with the list and the list didn’t play well with me.  About the time I was looking for new options (other than nurgle plague spam) the new patch dropped which changed Blastmaster rules so I started list building for a Noise Marine army to see if I could make it work.
 

 

First thoughts on Noise Marine units:

Lucius the Eternal: 

No thanks.  He brings zero synergy to a Noise Marine army

Chaos Lord: 

Necessary to unlock troops, he is never going to be the unkillable beast a Nurgle Lord is nor the murder machine a Khorne Lord is.  The Initiative boost is nice but very situational outside of HQ challenges.  In general he should be kept cheap.  A bike, a power weapon, and Aura of Darkness are good basic kit.  Dual claws would be for a more killy lord while a power sword/power ax combo would have more utility.  On foot would be cheaper but I don’t see him getting into important CC unless he gets delivered via a Landraider (which sucks too much to take).

Sorcerer:  

Not necessary to unlock Noise Marines but I still want one.  The Initiative boost helps the Sorc swing before Marines which has been a problem for me in the past.  The Slaanesh lore has nice powers and synergy with Noise Marines weaponry.  The sorc synergy isn’t game changing but good all the same.  As much as I want one I can’t justify it in lists 1,500 points and under.

Noise Marines: 

As an elite I don’t see their use but as a troop choice they shine.  Inexpensive in relation to other cult troops, Fearless, and access to sonic weaponry/banner are the central reasons to take them.  Higher initiative is a mixed bag.  The initiative is handy in CC and gives Noise Marine Sergeants a chance to kill their challenge opponent before they can swing back, but it is entirely useless in the shooting phase.

First thoughts on Slaanesh/Noise Marine gear

Mark of Slaanesh: 

Handy but not a game changer.  Usually reasonably priced but it’s only useful in CC.  After playing BA I know the value of swinging before other Marines but I don’t see buying the mark much outside of HQ’s or fast CC oriented units like Bikers and Raptors.

Steed of Slaanesh: 
The extra attack and outflank is nice.  The big downside is missing out on the extra toughness of the bike and the twin-linked bolter.  That toughness is huge in making MoS HQ’s more durable.

Banner of Excess:

Feel-no-Pain is a huge boon but the price is steep.  All banners come with the danger of precision shots but the upside of this one is that the banners effect makes the bearer tougher to kill.  I think it could/should be used on bigger high value units that will be in the enemies face.  I don’t think I’ll ever spam it on multiple units.

Sonic Blaster: 

An upgrade to use sparingly as the points can really add up fast.  Can let you put out a huge volume of shots at bolter range but only if you don’t move.  Volume of small arms fire can help swamp 2+ save units which other Noise Marine weapons can’t punch through.  Blasters should really shine when dealing with horde armies like Guard, Orks, or Nids where ignoring cover is huge.  I think this has a role in MSU objective camping units, letting them put out the equivalent bolter fire of a 10 man squad at the same range. 

Doom Siren: 

So awesome but such a conundrum to use.  This weapon would have been huge in 5^th ed mech spam but is less so now.  Price
is dirt cheap for what it does and the weapon gets protected from precision shots by ‘look out sir’.  The plus is that it’s a great assault weapon for I5 troops which want to be in combat.  The negative is that Noise Marines are I5 and don’t want to be in combat and it is too good of an assault weapon.  First off, stationary shooting is where equipped Noise Marines shine and you are not doing that if you’re moving and getting into in CC.  Secondly, if you get a solid template hit on a MEQ squad you are going to melt face and probably increase the range (and unlikeliness) of the charge if you don’t just make the enemy break and run.  Ideally you probably need transport for good template use and a properly built squad to deliver the goods.  I don’t think Doom Sirens pair well with Sonic Blasters or Blastmasters because of movement issues.  Tricky tricky.

Blastmasters: 

This is the bread and butter of a Noise Marine list.  The big plus is that the weapon has the Strength to instakill T4 and bust tanks, the cover bypass and AP to shred MEQ, and the range to do it outside of many MEQ armies golden 24-12” shooting zone.  A small plus is the dual firing mode which is handy, but moving Blastmasters are not very effective.  This is an ideal weapon for sitting on objectives or elevated terrain and putting the hurt on enemy units.   Because of movement restrictions this weapon seems like it would pair well with Sonic Blasters.  

Edited by Bonzi, 27 February 2013 - 01:01 AM.

[Bonzi]

My first list (997pts)

I call this first list, OMG BLASTMASTERS!  Must have MOAR!

Chaos Lord: power sword, aura of darkness, bike, mark of slaanesh (130) Fairly cheap kit.  Runs with the bikers to give them some punch.

10 Noise Marines: x2 blastmasters (240)  Shoots things dead and then shoots some more.  To hold/capture the center or the most contested objective.

5 Noise Marines: x1 blastmaster (125)  Objective camper and fire support.

5 Noise Marines: x1 blastmaster (125)  Objective camper and fire support.

5 Chaos Bikers: power sword, meltabomb x2 meltagun (150)  Multi-role unit.  Tank hunting, CC hammer, objective contester, tarpit to keep my shooty units clear.

3 Obilterators: mark of nurgle (228)  My main source of AP2 and anti-tank.  MoN for durability and instadeath.

 

 

First list battle results and analysis vs Drop Pod Space Wolves:

 

Space Wolves list roughly:

Lord: runic armor, frost blade, rust belt, other?

 

5 Wolf Scouts: meltagun, x2 meltabombs?

5 Wolfguard: 4 Terminators: combi plasma/meltas, heavy flamer, 1 regular with power weapon

-Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters: x2 meltaguns, powerfist, banner

-Drop Pod

10 Grey Hunters: x2 plasma, ???

-Drop Pod

5 Long Fangs: 4 missile launchers

 

 

Dawn of War deployment, Big Guns Never Tire

I had most of my units deployed in the left corner with heavy cover and many nearby objectives.   Oblits were in a multistory ruin on an objective while the bikes, the 10 man NM and 5 man NM squad behind walls/fences nearby.  The other 5 man NM squad was deployed on an objective in cover on the right corner of my deployment zone.  His only squad on the table at the start was the Long Fangs on top of a walled hill opposite of the bulk of my deployment.  I was sweating bullets thinking about having those pods come down on top of me with no turns of softening fire.  I was also pretty worried about the terminators because the Oblits were my only source of AP 2.

First turn he drops the terminators and plasma hunters right into the pocket of all my left hand units and spreads them out as he
disembarks.  I get lucky and he rolls fairly cold with his plasma and combi-weapons, only killing about 5-6 plain NM in the large squad.  His long fangs tag one biker who didn’t fit in cover.

My first turn I move my bikers and lord around to the back of the plasma grey hunters so that any blastmaster shooting on the front wouldn’t pull me out of charge distance.  My 5 man NM and remaining 4 NM from the dual blastmaster squad face the question of move or shoot.  Both are in dual charge range of the terminators and the grey hunters next turn and I’m not sure how effective my shooting will be.  I leave the 5 man in place and backpedal the dual blastmaster unit away from the terminators and grey hunters (not a great
call in hindsight, the heavy blast shooting would have been better).  My Oblits fire plasma cannons at the terminators and paste 3 (damn stormshields).  My lone ranger squad on the other side of board reaches out with their blastmaster and removes the PA wolfguard from the terminator unit.  The remaining two NM units unload into the plasma grey hunters but only kill 5ish (could have wiped the squad if I hadn’t moved the dual blastmaster unit).  Bikers + Lord charge the remaining grey hunters and finish them, losing one more biker
in the process.  After combat I try to consolidate away from the remaining lord and terminator but I don’t get far.

Second turn his remaining pod and wolf scouts come in.  He drops his pod with melta grey hunters behind the building with the objective and my Oblits in it.  Wolf scouts come in behind my lone ranger unit on the other side of the board.  His lord and remaining wolf guard terminator advance towards my bikers.  Shooting sees an Obliterator die from bolter and meltagun fire from the grey hunter squad. 

His long fangs kill another biker with missile fire.  His wolf scouts fail to kill any of my lone ranger NM squad.   He charges my bikes with his Lord and terminator, I issue challenge with my Sarg who has a power sword.  He accepts with his Terminator Sarg who has a power sword.  My Sarg can’t get past his armor, his sarg can’t get past my toughness so the duel is a draw.  His lord beats down my two remaining bikers while my lord can’t get past his runic armor.

My second turn I advance my 5 man NM squad towards and objective which happens to be in the middle of the board, just behind where my bikers and his terminator are having it out.  I crowd them into a corner of ruins to protect them from long fangs or terminator danger.  My dual blastmater squad let fly at the melta grey hunters, one blast hits and kills three with another down to bolter fire.  My Oblits double tap the melta hunters with TL plasma guns, killing another three and leaving the banner, power fist, and one plain dude as the survivors.  Lone ranger NM lay into the Wolf Scouts with double tap bolter and blastmaster, killing three and pinning the unit.  Combat between the biker/lord and terminator/lord unit drags on.  He hangs a wound on my lord, everyone else does diddle and the combat drags on.

His turn three he advances his remaining three grey hunters around the building holding the Oblits and moves them towards the unit of 5 NM I was trying to get to the center objective.  Wolf Scouts are pinned and the long fangs shoot rockets into the sky as they don’t have range on anything but the biker combat.  Three grey hunters charge my NM after activating their Wolf Banner.  The power fist and the plain dude who lead the charge got killed by overwatch, leaving the banner bearer in combat with my NM.  NM do nothing in combat but lose one to bludgeoning with a Wolf Banner.  Biker Lord takes another wound but the fight continues.

My turn three I truffle shuffle my remaining obliterators around the corner of the objective building to draw LoS to drop pods and long fangs as everything else is dead or in combat.  Dual blastmaster squad makes a run towards the center objective that my other NM unit was headed for before getting tangled up with the last grey hunter.  The lone ranger NM squad blasts the wolf scouts off the board, guaranteeing one objective held that can’t be contested (nothing left close enough to push them off).  I was originally going to use the Oblits to blast a drop pod but I decide to take a long shot and shoot two lascannons at the Long Fangs in cover on the other side of the board.  I kill one, the unit breaks and runs off the board (at this point the game is already decided but we are having fun so we keep playing on for laughs).  NM/lone grey hunter combat resolves with my NM beating down the banner guy and consolidating deeper into the corner trying to hide from the terminator combat which seems like it will end soon.  Nothing happens in the biker lord combat as I am rolling hot on my Lords invulnerable saves.  The combat has become the highlight of the game where I am screaming at my guys to die so my oblits can finish the job with plasma.

His turn four things are grim.  All he has left are his pods and his lord + terminator while I hold two objectives he won’t be able to contest and looking to get a third.  Drop pod shooting kills a NM in the dual blaster squad.  He finally beats down my lord but the Sarg duel of fail continues on.

My turn four.  The Oblits shuffle back into the building and shoot multi-meltas at a drop pod which blows up.  NM units all shoot at drop pods but only get a hull point.  Combat sees the duel drag on while his Lord stands and taps his foot.

His turn five.  Lord performs heroic intervention into the duel and ends my Sargent.  A moment of silence is had by all.  He gets a great consolidation roll and moves to the other side of the ruins where my NM are cowering, protecting him from Oblit fire and putting my NM in danger if the game goes on.

My turn five.  Oblits take more potshots at remaining drop pods doing nothing.  Dual blaster squad finishes its move onto the center objective.  Nothing else to do.

Game continues to turn six

 

His turn six.  Terminator/Lord come around the corner and curbstomp my cowering Noise Marine unit.  Game is conceded.

 

 

I win 11 to 1: (3 objectives, first blood, and a HS kill) vs

(slay the warlord)

 

 

Lessons to take away:

#1.  Bikers + MoS Lord is a good beatstick/tarpit unit, especially in small games.  I can see where I will need something(s) more deadly in larger games, but for their points they paid me back in full.  MUST put a power ax in the unit (Either run the lord power sword & ax or put the ax on the Sarg).

#2.  Obliterators are key to Noise Marine lists as they are the source of resiliency and AP2.  Good synergy/fire support unit with Noise Marines.  Mark of Nurgle is a must.  I would have lost an oblit to melta instant death and probably another to bolter fire if it hadn’t been for the mark.  I need to remember they have power fists to use against tough enemies and vehicles.  These guys were honestly the MVP of the game given the murder they did on terminators, grey hunters, long fangs, and drop pods.

#3.  Blastmasters are awesome but you just can’t sling them on every unit.  I got big use out of the MSU objective campers who I could afford to sit still but it just isn’t ideal to spend 60 points on the large unit that I need to use for taking objectives.  It could be viable to break the army into four MSU + blastmaster units for increased flexibility.

#4.  Noise Marines are great.  Fearless on a shooting centric army is solid and the better initiative comes in handy when you get to the

clinch.  I do need a more mobile CC/objective taking threat that can take hits.  Extra CC weapons, Doom Siren, and Power Sword would all fit in for the cost of the two lost Blastmasters.  The real bonus of scoring Noise Marines is the MSU Blastmaster combo which gives you dangerous scoring troops who won’t run and cost almost nothing.

#5.  In larger point lists I can see it becoming important to add more plasma and CC threats to cover the gaps in my Noise Marines effectiveness.  More Oblits is a must as I don’t really see Havocks having a place in a Noise Marine army.  Also considering combi-plasma MoN terminators to augment the offensive power of the list beyond just Lord+Bike squad.

[Bonzi]

Revised 1,000pt List

I call this list: LOUD NOISES!  Get close and SCREAM at the enemy! 

Chaos Lord: power sword, aura of darkness, bike, mark of Slaanesh (130)  If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

10 Noise Marines: power sword, meltabomb, doom siren, 9 extra CCW (219)  Oriented the unit more towards close combat and objective taking and added a meltabomb for anti-tank/MC.  Doesn’t have much shooting punch outside of template range but fearless and cheap should get me there. This is also to do a test run of the Doom Siren to see how it works on a foot unit.

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster, x3 sonic blaster (134)  I added 3 sonic blasters to up the volume of small arms fire the small unit puts out

and give me an answer to horde/low save armies.  If I run short on points this is the first place I will find them.

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster, x3 sonic blaster (134)

5 Chaos Bikers: power ax, meltabomb,  x2 meltagun (150)  Added the power ax to punch 2+ saves.

3 Obliterators: mark of nurgle (228) Second verse, same as the first.

 

Revised list battle results vs Chaos Space Marine Horde

Enemy CSM list:

Sorc: lvl 2, mark of tzeentch

10 CSM: x2 plasma

11 CSM: x2 plasma

11 CSM: x2 plasma

Defiler

Forge Fiend

Lengthwise table deployment, Big Guns Never Tire

I was fairly frightened of his Defiler and its pie plate battle cannon.  I also worried about shifting his large squads off of objectives given how much LoS blocking terrain was on the board.  In deployment I had two objectives in the back of my deployment zone to camp with my MSU squads on elevated terrain.  My plan was to kill the Defiler first and then the Forge Fiend so as to and secure my back zone objectives since he didn’t have anything else with the range or speed to threaten them.  If I could bust the AV and kill one troop unit I could force the game down to secondary objectives which I felt confident of.  With that plan in mind I tasked my Bikes + Lord to go for the Defiler and put my Oblits in reserve to drop on whichever AV still needed killing when they arrived. 

I positioned my bikes as forward as I could on the left hand side while still in partial cover and having solid cover options for their

first move.  I did this because the left side had the least LoS blocking terrain and best avenue of fire at all of my units so I figured he would place his Defiler somewhere in that area.  I put my assault NM squad as far forward on the right hand side as I could while still getting some cover from standing behind a hill.  My MSU NM squads went onto elevated cover near objectives on the left and right back corners of my deployment zone.

He deployed into a fairly conventional gunline arrangement at the front edge of his deployment zone.  His Sorc + CSM squad took up dead center on the board with one squad deployed about 6” to the right and the other deployed 6” to the left of that unit.  He deployed his Defiler, as I had hoped, on the far left side in front of my Bike squad.  Surprisingly he deployed it right up on the front edge rather than keeping it safer in the back field.   I believe he did it to get a better field of fire and I also think he planned on using the Defiler as a hard CC counter to my Bikers.  The Forge Fiend went up front between the center and right hand CSM squads.  His units were in the open but there was so much LoS blocking terrain that only the left hand unit near the defiler was exposed.  One MSU NM and the Biker squad could also get a bead on the center HQ squad but that was it.  I think his plan was to use his armor as CC blocker units while using his troops to take two center field objectives hidden from me on the back side of builds and the backfield objective in the open in his deployment zone.  This would leave me at a disadvantage as I was going to need to advance between narrow buildings on the right hand side to push him off of an objective.  If I went up the center I would bottle neck myself and be wide open for a turn of massed

bolter and double tapping plasma as well as getting hit in the face with a Defiler or a Forge Fiend.

 

Turn 1 Me:  His deployment hasn’t really forced a change to my plan or target priority.  My big opportunity is to bust the Defiler with my bikes ASAP and then use them as a hammer unit to threaten his left flank, hopefully buying some time/acting as distraction for my NM assault squad.  My bikes turbo boost forwards, trying to hug the left hand side of the board and limit exposure to the plasma squads.  I end right behind some fence line cover giving me saves from any possible shooting and leaving me in position to meltagun his Defiler next turn.  NM assault squad goes forward and towards the right hand edge of the board to try flanking from the right to limit counter fire from Center and Left hand CSM units and avoid the Forge Fiend.  I try running to reach the cover of a nearby wall but I roll a 2 and get left in the open.  Luckily my exposure in limited by angles and LoS blocking buildings.  My MSU squads reach out with their blastmasters and tear chunks out of the Center and Left CSM squads, killing about 3 each.

Turn 1 Him:  the Forge Fiend moves forward between buildings to get LoS to my NM assault squad.  Defiler shoots at my bikes and clips two of them, killing one.  Center and Left CSM shoot long range at the Biker squad downing one more with plasma fire.  Forge Fiend shoots at the NM assault squad and kills two or three.

Turn 2 Me:  When I need them most, my Oblits decide to stay on coffee break in reserve.  Bikes advance huging the left hand edge and

get one melta within 6” and one within 8” of the Defiler.  NM assault squad moves forward and line up behind a high wall for cover from the CSM squads.  The unit is positioned so they can jump around the right hand side of the building in the 5” gap next to the right hand edge and maybe get a template on the Right hand CSM squad which has stayed hidden so far.   Bikes shoot meltas at Defiler, hit with both, pen with both, and get past his demon save.  Defiler explodes.  Huzzah!  MSU NM both shoot blastmasters at the Center and Left CSM squads.  One scatters off of the HQ Center unit target, the other scatters off of the Left unit and onto the HQ Center, killing another 3 and breaking the unit.  They flee about 6” back but are large enough to regroup and have a long way before they will hit the board edge.  This is turn is a big tipping point where my terrain and AV disadvantages are starting to be outweighed by my momentum.

Turn 2 Him:  HQ Center squad rallies.  Forge Fiend moves around the building wall and into LoS and charge range of my NM assault squad.  Left CSM squad moves into rapid fire range of my Bikers.  Left CSM squad double taps my bikers, killing both my meltagun bikes and reducing the unit to my Lord and the Sarg.  HQ Center squad takes snap shots at my Bikes but does nothing.  Forge

Fiend shoots at my NM assault squad and kills another 2.  Then the Fiend charges the unit and kills another NM while my meltabomb Sarg fails to hit and all krak grenade attacks are blocked by demonic saves.

Turn 3 Me:  Oblits

decide work is over-rated and continue to sit out the fight.  Bikes get within an inch of Left CSM squad.  Bikes shoot and kill a CSM.  One MSU NM unit has LoS to the rallied HQ Center squad and shoots with the blastmaster, killing another 1 or 2.  Bikes charge Left CSM and kill the Sarg (getting my Lord eternal warrior on the boon table) and one other, the remaining two break and I fail to catch them….with a MoS Lord.  They will be unable to rally on anything except snake eyes so Bikes consolidate towards HQ Center squad.  Forge Fiend fails to kill any NM and in return gets a meltabomb shoved down his throat, making him explode.  NM consolidate back into position to jump around the wall at the Right CSM squad.

Turn 3 Him:  HQ Center backs as far from the Bikes as he can (moving towards the untouched Right CSM squad) while still staying in double tap range of bolters and remaining plasma.  Center double taps and Right shoots long range at Bikes.  The Sarg ‘Look Out Sir’s and eats a plasma bolt leaving my Lord alive with two wounds left.

Turn 4 Me:  The Oblits have forgotten they even needed to show up.  At this point things are well in hand but it would still be handy to

have them around.  NM assault squad leap around the corner of the building to get in template range of the untouched Right CSM squad.  Lord moves to within an inch of HQ Center squad.  NM assault uses the Doom Siren and bolt pistols on the Right CSM squad and kills five guys, meaning I now need an 11 or 12 to get the charge.  Lord charges HQ squad and issues challenge which is accepted by the Sargent (unknown to me I had insta killed the Sorc the previous round with a Blastmaster template.  The guy had rolled out the look out sir and everything and I didn’t even notice it).  Lordly beat-down ensues netting another kill but I forget to roll on the boon table. NM assault squad tries to charge, fails the distance and the Sarg gets killed by an Overwatch plasma bolt to the face.

Turn 4 Him:  Remaining Right CSM squad backs up as far from NM assault squad as they can get while still holding rapid fire range.  Resulting fire finishes the NM assault squad.  Close combat sees my Lord finish off the remaining Center CSM squad and consolidate towards the Right CSM squad.

Turn 5 Me:  Oblits finally come in….because they have to.  Oblits DS within 12” of the Right CSM squad.  One MSU NM unit jumps out of their cover and onto the objective in front of them.  Lord advances to within 3” of Right CSM squad.  Obilts double tap their plasma

guns and kill the whole unit.  Opponent is tabled and the game ends.

I win 11 to 0 (2 objectives, 3 secondary, 2 HS kills)

 

Lessons to take away:

#1.  Bikers + Lord are a reliable beat stick.  This is the second game where they have done more than their share of the heavy

lifting.  Slagging the Defiler and rolling up the whole flank was what won me the game.  If the Defiler had stopped me or slowed me down I would have been crippled by my Oblits failure to show.  Fast, mobile, and hard hitting earn this unit a permanent place on my roster.

#2.  Oblits won’t be using deepstrike in small point games unless it’s absolutely necessary.  If not for some luck on my Bikers part this

decision could have cost me the game.  I need my AP 2 and anti-tank and I can’t afford to have it get lost in reserve.

#3.  Sonic Blasters didn’t really get a try this game.  The long deployment and objective placement meant that my MSU squads were never within 24” of anything.  I will leave them on for now.

#4.  Noise Marine Assault Squad.  Doom Siren was awesome and bad at the same time.  The unit was up against an impossible task of dodging a Forge Fiend and getting through a bottle neck in the face of double tap plasma to push back the enemy.  In this game there was no scenario where these guys weren’t going to get mauled.  That said, the unit did occupy the Forge Fiend which could have been shooting at my MSU squads holding objective and in the end they managed to take the monster down.  When I did get to use the Doom Siren it was so brutal it killed half of the enemy squad and left me with an impossible charge.  In hind sight I should have just double tapped the bolters and skipped the charge.  In the future I might just let people charge me after I template/double tap them.  This unit needs more proving and/or the addition of the FnP banner in bigger point games.

#5.  MSU NM with Blastmaster, like the Bike squad, have proven themselves a reliable auto include in any list.  These guys are the

bedrock the rest of my army is built upon and they always deliver solid performance for point cost.  I’m thinking a good golden rule for these guys is 1 per 500pts. 

#6.  I really see the need for multiple Obliterator units in larger point games.  Probably two units of two at 1,500pts.  I see the need for DS plasma independent of my Obilts, probably 5 MoN Terminators with combi-plasma at 1,500pts.  As a final thought, I’d also like to try out a single MoN Mutilator to see how that synergizes with the rest of my list at 1,500ish.

 

 

If you have read this far then kudos and thanks.  Please feel free to question or comment on anything.  This represents about two weeks worth of gaming and list building that have been banging around in my head.  Updates from here on will probably be smaller and about once a week if I can keep my game pace.

[Hazath]

That was an enjoyable reading Bonzi. Hope to see more Slaanesh related battle report from you.

[minigun762]

Very interesting read. Its always nice to see someone share their thought process and experience.

I did have some comments and questions of my own however.

Lucius the Eternal:

No thanks. He brings zero synergy to a Noise Marine army

I think you may have dismissed Lucius too quickly. In my eyes, he does two things well. #1 Bring a second doom siren and #2 play the forced challenge game. Doom sirens are great and anything that ignores cover has increased value in a world where stealth and shrouded are seeming more and more common. The S5 is also a nice counter to those expensive bikers.

As far as the challenges, beyond the obvious weakness of getting though 2+ saves, Lucius has good odds at winning most challenges thanks to the increase in number of attacks, shred and the high I score. You might even get lucky with the strike back on his armor.

Noise Marines:

As an elite I don’t see their use but as a troop choice they shine. Inexpensive in relation to other cult troops, Fearless, and access to sonic weaponry/banner are the central reasons to take them. Higher initiative is a mixed bag. The initiative is handy in CC and gives Noise Marine Sergeants a chance to kill their challenge opponent before they can swing back, but it is entirely useless in the shooting phase.

It hit me the other day why we're seeing Noise Marines and Plague Marines. I think a large part of it is that they're the two multi-taskers of the cult troops. With both choices, you have options, the primary one is whether to stand and shoot or charge. Having this option frees you up to do whats best at any particular time vs being forced to commit to a course of action because you're squad can only function in one way.

I see the Doom Siren/Power Weapon/Bolter Noise Marine squads as a win:win. You can either stand and dump a fair amount of dakka into a unit and then get a free overwatch with those same weapons when they charge you or you can fire off a template and charge, swinging and killing before they can land a hit.

Sonic Blaster:

An upgrade to use sparingly as the points can really add up fast. Can let you put out a huge volume of shots at bolter range but only if you don’t move. Volume of small arms fire can help swamp 2+ save units which other Noise Marine weapons can’t punch through. Blasters should really shine when dealing with horde armies like Guard, Orks, or Nids where ignoring cover is huge. I think this has a role in MSU objective camping units, letting them put out the equivalent bolter fire of a 10 man squad at the same range.

I want to like these but at the end of the day, I think the Salvo weapon type kills it for me. 24" range just isn't good enough for a static squad. Besides Doom Sirens and Blastmasters cover the assault and long range shooting roles well enough.

#5. In larger point lists I can see it becoming important to add more plasma and CC threats to cover the gaps in my Noise Marines effectiveness. More Oblits is a must as I don’t really see Havocks having a place in a Noise Marine army. Also considering combi-plasma MoN terminators to augment the offensive power of the list beyond just Lord+Bike squad.

Consider Lascannon Havocs or Predators. They are actually fairly priced, especially compared to Obliterators. Lascannons give you that all important AP2 that Noise Marines tend to lack while increasing your ranged anti-tank.

Obliterators are a good choice but in my opinion, they work best when they're 24" away from targets so they have the widest variety of weapon choices available.

#3. Blastmasters are awesome but you just can’t sling them on every unit. I got big use out of the MSU objective campers who I could afford to sit still but it just isn’t ideal to spend 60 points on the large unit that I need to use for taking objectives. It could be viable to break the army into four MSU + blastmaster units for increased flexibility.

What is your feeling for how many BM you should have in a given list? They are nice weapons but I fear people will invest too many points in them and they will struggle against true hordes or vehicle heavy lists. This is extra true in armies that field 'drakes as both weapons have the same primary targets.

In hind sight I should have just double tapped the bolters and skipped the charge. In the future I might just let people charge me after I template/double tap them. This unit needs more proving and/or the addition of the FnP banner in bigger point games.

Prime example of that flexibility I was mentioning earlier. In addition, I would consider a rhino for these guys. Helps provide some added protection and unlike pure assault units, Noise Marines are impacted by the assaulting out of vehicles changes.

Also, I take it you'll be keeping meltabombs on your Champions from now on?

#6. I really see the need for multiple Obliterator units in larger point games. Probably two units of two at 1,500pts. I see the need for DS plasma independent of my Obilts, probably 5 MoN Terminators with combi-plasma at 1,500pts. As a final thought, I’d also like to try out a single MoN Mutilator to see how that synergizes with the rest of my list at 1,500ish.

Consider adding a second MSU unit of plasma bikers. Cheaper than terminators and they can provide an backup escort for your HQ. Plus they are on the table turn one unlike deepstrikers.
 

[Bonzi]

Hey, thanks for the reply.  Feedback, advise, and thinking up alternative solutions is the whole point of this thread.

 

I had taken the time to write up a line by line reply for you but I bumped the wrong button and lost it.  I'm going to rewrite the biggest points and cover some of the others later.

 

#1.  # of Blastmasters per army/pts.  In one of my battle report rehashes I touched on this.  My experience so far has shown me that MSU + Blastmaster is the ideal platform for the BM for reasons of squad size in relation to cover, targeting options, objective holding, points cost, and the value of Fearless.  My own opinion is that MSU+ blastmaster should be at about 1 per 500 points.  This leaves you a lot of other points to cover the AP 2 and anti-AV weaknesses of Noise Marines and let you take some combat/objective contesting units.  More than this and I think your build becomes too inflexible and predictable...namely, you are entering into the rock/paper/scissors world of min/maxing where you will trash MEQ footsloggers but be thrashed by DSing Deathwing ect ect.

 

#2.  You mentioned Rhinos and Preds and it sparked an idea in my head.  As far as Noise Marines are concerned, mech spam isn't dead.  Our MSU + Blastmasters are dirt cheap and work well to hold home objectives, leaving us plenty of points for Rhinos carrying medium sized Doom Siren or plasma squads into the face of the enemy.  Lucius could become relevant!  Chosen + plasma could become relevant!  Preds wouldn't be the only AV targets on the field!  With the rise of plasma guns there is a whole lot less melta anti-tank than there once was and Noise Marines could cash in on the meta shift away from mech!  With our weapons we can run it and make it work while other armies are gimped by it....oh happy day.

 

There are ideas bubbling in my tinny brain and it is time to build some off the wall Noise Marine lists.

[minigun762]

Glad I could toss a few useful ideas out there.

 

I've reached many of the same conclusions as you have as far as Noise Marines and Slaanesh. At the moment my current thinking is to pair some Emperor's Children with Iron Warriors. EC bring the infantry killing and assault punch while Iron Warriors bring the AP2 and anti-tank firepower. I'm still planning on using rhinos, probably a 1:1 mix of mechanized and slogging squads. I keep looking at those havoc launchers as a cheap way to add some extra utility to our rhinos.

[Bonzi]

Alright, another night of battle with a new list.  Campaign has been stepped up to 1,250pts.  I am working on mech builds as per mingun762 but I don't have the Predators for it so for my current campaign I'll have to keep going foot slogger.

 

As always, any advice or comments are welcome.

 

The List: 1249pts

 

Chaos Lord: mark of slan., power sword, aura of darkness, meltabomb, bike  Battle tested, mother approved.

 

Mutilator: mark of nurg.  I've seen a very few run them to great success.  I think they will be good roadblocks for the shooting portion of my army.

 

10 Noise Marines: doom siren, power sword, meltabomb, x9 extra ccw  Giving it another go to better measure the effectiveness of the setup.

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster  Dropped the sonic blasters due to point limitations.

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

5 Bikers: power ax, meltabomb, x2 melta  Pretty much a permanent fixture in my lists.

 

2 Oblits: mark of nurg.  MORE OBLITERATORS! One more to be exact.

 

2 Oblits: mark of nurg.

 

 

So you guys have seen my previous lists and you know the evolution.  With the larger points limit I have shoehorned in another MSU blastmaster squad, an extra Obilterator, and one lone Mutilator.  This list is really about the Mutilator and the Doom Siren squad testing, all the rest of it is pretty much a known quantity at this point.

 

 

 

Battle Report vs Tyranids 1250pts

 

Vanguard Deployment, Crusader Mission with 3 Objectives

 

 

Tyranid List

 

Warrior Prime?  (Didn't have much beyond rending)

 

4 Warrriors (some kind of guns with lots of shots and a venom cannon)

 

1 Venomthrope?

 

1 Venomthrope?

 

15-20ish Genestealers

 

20+ CC gaunts

 

20+ Shooty gaunts (had assault 3 guns)

 

Trygon Prime (or whatever the CC one is called)

 

 

I can't really write a turn by turn report on this battle as fighting Nids makes all the turns blur together.  Tactics were reduce to my target priority vs his horde charge.

 

I was scared of his genestealers and warriors as I remember them being beasts in CC in 5th edition.  I also knew his MC could tear it up in CC and that I would only get one turn to shoot him to death before he ripped into me.  I deployed behind most of the objectives (I have learned to only jump onto the objective last turn as a shooty army, sitting on them from the start favors CC opponents).  My MSU were put in cover spaced fairly evenly along the diagonal battle line with two in elevated cover and one in a sandbag enclosure.  My doom siren squad was deployed behind a hill near the front of the battle line with the mutilator right next to them.  Oblit squads were spaced out with one on each side of the table to get solid crossfire as he advanced towards my objectives. 

I was lucky in that two of the three objectives were on my side of the table which would force him to come at me with everything if he wanted to win.

 

I was unlucky that he stole the intiative and cut the distance between us in half before I could fire a shot.  His shooting was minimal and did nothing. 

 

My retaliation was to dump everything I had into the Genestealers and reduce the squad to a single model.

 

Top of turn 2 his trygon came in and unloaded into my doom siren squad killing only a couple of guys.  His shooty guants unloaded into a MSU blastmaster squad and killed all three of the meatshields, leaving the sarg and the blastmaster.  Other shooting bounced off of my bikes.  The last Genestealer charged an Oblit squad and got squished with by a powerfist.

 

Bottom of turn 2 I unloaded the doom siren squad and oblits into the Trygon reducing it to a single wound.  MSU blastmaster squads went to work on the blob of shooty guants and warriors killing a few guants and a warrior and opening a lane up for my bikes to charge his warriors.  Bikes shoot the warriors, insta killing the closest with a melta.  Bikes failed their 6" charge by one inch because they killed the closest warrior.  Mutilator charges Trygon because it seemed funny and I figured I could take off that last wound.   Problem being I declared I was using power fists and got killed before I could swing (yes I am an idiot, all I had to do was use lightning claws to get that one wound and kill the Prime as he killed my Mutilator).  So at the end of turn 2 my bikers + lord and hanging in the breeze in front of his swarm, my CC go to is dead for no gain by my stupidity, and his Trygon is free to charge me in the next turn.  Yay.

 

His turn 3 he shoots me some more and kills my biker sarg (bad positioning on my part).  Shooty guants + warriors + warrior prime charge my bikers + lord.  Tarpit ensues.  Our lords can't hurt each other.  My bikers kill a couple shooty guants but synapse makes them fearless.  We both have tough fearless units in a grinding combat....wonder how this will go.  His Trygon charges the doom siren squad and gets his last wound taken off by doom siren overwatch.  Brutal.

 

My turn 3 I have only one shooting option, his CC guants which are closing in a the tarpit melee.  One oblit squad uses assault cannons, the other uses plasma cannons.  Add in the two blastmasters in range and the squad gets murdered down to about ten guys.  I also scatter a blastmaster shot onto a venomthrope and instakill it.  The squad breaks as runs.  Doom siren squad charges into the tarpit melee while the last MSU squad jumps off their cliff and runs to the closest objective which is now safe unless things go really bad.  Our HQ's continue to duel it out, doing nothing.  My bikers slap down a few guants and my doom siren squad kills one warrior and takes one wound off of the last one.

 

His turn 4 sees the CC guants rally and head back toward the fight.  He charges his remaining venomthrope into the melee.  My lord hangs a wound on his.  I kill a few more guants and put a wound on the venomthrope.  Yay fearless armies.

 

My turn 4 sees my underemployed shooting elements break the rallied guant squad.  I move a second MSU blastmaster squad onto another objective and charge the remaining MSU squad (which only has a sarg and a blastmaster) into the tarpit melee.  My lord does nothing.  His lord does nothing.  My last biker kills his last warrior.  The doom siren and msu squad kill the last guants and the venomthrope.

 

His turn 5 the warrior lord gets a wound on my lord and he calls the game.

 

Victory for me 7 to 1  (2 objectives, first blood vs linebreaker)

 

 

 

Lessons Learned:

 

#1.  My MoS Lord needs a lightning claw or a power sword & power ax combo if I want him to do something in challenges.  Granted he is good at not getting killed and he is great for holding up dangerous units, but it would be nice to see him kill something.

 

#2.  My bikers are immortal!  Seriously, even if the don't kill anything they still hold it in place until I am ready to deal with it.

 

#3 The Mutilator could have been huge if I had used him right.  I should have finished off the Trygon with the doom siren squad kraks and meltabomb or at the very least used lightning claws to try and kill the Trygon as it killed him.  If that hadn't happened he could have put put the beatdown in the tarpit melee.

 

#4.  I love that doom siren squad.  The extra CCW's paid off as did the Siren even when I didn't get a chance to fry a big squad with the template.  A good mobile assault unit to complement the static gunline of the MSU blastmaster squads.  I can see some gold in having the Mutilator tag along with these guys.

 

#5.  MSU blastmasters are dirty.  So cheap and so deadly.  The biggest benefit of the blastmasters is their long range which lets you space them out, yet still provide fire support for each other.  It lets you deploy in a rather dispersed gun which forces your opponent to spread out or to only focus on one or two while the other(s) are hammering away at him.

 

#6.  I won't bother with Sonic Blasters.  This game would have been the ideal situation for them and I just don't see as they would have done much if I had them.  Bolters are a quality weapon when it comes to horde armies, no need to spend more points to replace them.

 

#7.  Every game I get more respect for the basic Noise Marine.  Their weapons are fantastic, they don't run from a fight, and they can swing a blade just as fast as nids.

 

 

 

Any comments or thoughts are welcome.

 

[minigun762]

Funnily enough, when I started reading your latest post the first thing that I thought of was "hmm might be time to upgrade that lord's weapons and inv save".

A single claw won't cost you any extra but you'll average more kills with it, even with one less attack. After that you would upgrade to either claw &fist or maybe black mace.

Have you considered IoE on the bikers? You'd have to mark them but adding FnP to both the squad and HQ would be a solid improvement.

[Brother Ambroz]

Just finished reading each of these and those are some nice batreps. Only thing that'd improve them is some pictures but even that's not necessary. Since I first read your lord's setup though I was thinking it'd be a good move to upgrade him to a black mace instead but wasn't sure if anyone had suggested it. I see Minigun just did though, so I'm going to echo him. I think it'd work well for you against all comers just with weight of attacks. Other than that, very well written reports and look forward to seeing more.

[Capt_Darius]

It seems like bolters are better for MSU+Blastmaster. Would it be worth having a 10-man squad with Sonic Blasters for objective-sitting and mid-field anti-infantry?

[Leper]

I think a 10-man squad with SB & 2 BMs would do well parked behind a mid-field aegis.  

 

Champion sits on the quad gun.  Infiltrate them via Huron for extra fun.

[Bonzi]

Thanks for the posts guys, I'm happy with how this thread is turning out.

 

On the Lords weapon: he is going to a lightning claw from now on.  I really want to put the black mace on him in the future but points are tight at the smaller levels and I just don't have that I'm willing to drop to get the mace in.  Certainly I will at 1,500.

 

As to the Sonic Blasters, they suffer the same limitations as rapid fire did in 5th ed.  If you move them you probably are not shooting with them.  Unless you get lucky or build your list to infiltrate, that midrange squad is going to have to move to get there.  Once they get there they are going to get locked up in CC without getting more than a turn of shooting.  In the end, points are tight and those 30pts of Sonic Blasters would do more as a Blastmaster or a couple 5 mand squads with Doom Sirens.  All my game experience shows me so far that Sonic Blasters are just too situational to be really worth it.

[Scribe]

I wouldnt dismiss Sonic Blasters too quickly. Its still a decent amount of shots, and with a bit of Support, potentially a lot of S5. I wouldnt just drop them in randomly, but in a dedicated sonic blaster unit, they can put out some decent fire in a 24 inch bubble, drop a Sorc in there and hope for SoP.

 

I'm also thinking about running a lord on steed.

 

Lord, MoS, Steed, Brand.

 

Purpose is to just unlock NMs, and then ride around being annoying with the torrent, if you have a larger squad (perhaps the blastmasters) you can also outflank them.

[Bonzi]

I wouldnt dismiss Sonic Blasters too quickly. Its still a decent amount of shots, and with a bit of Support, potentially a lot of S5. I wouldnt just drop them in randomly, but in a dedicated sonic blaster unit, they can put out some decent fire in a 24 inch bubble, drop a Sorc in there and hope for SoP.

 

I'm also thinking about running a lord on steed.

 

Lord, MoS, Steed, Brand.

 

Purpose is to just unlock NMs, and then ride around being annoying with the torrent, if you have a larger squad (perhaps the blastmasters) you can also outflank them.

I would agree that a Sorc is one way to make Sonic Blasters worth it.  The Lore of Slaanesh is pretty legit and S5 Sonic Blasters would be death on almost any infantry.  The drawback is that you need a Lord to unlock the NM and a Sorc to buff the blasters.  The cost of this makes it far less viable at low point levels.  Also worth considering is the fact that you might not get the right spell to make that work.  If you were to do this you couldn't really build a list around it, it would just have to be a nice bonus if things worked out that way.

[Scribe]

Yeah you cant really list build around it unless you go into double FOC territory , but you can I think make it advantageous.

 

I dont think we can really make a Warlord that is a CC rock, at least not if we focus on the fact it needs to be MoS to unlock NM's, so my thinking is, at least at 1500+, why not make our Sorcerer our Warlord and keep both it and Chaos Lord super cheap.

 

A Mastery Level 1 Sorc cannot get  the Warp Charge 2 Power and so has a 50% chance of getting SoP, can get an Invuln and can then hide in a unit of Noise Marines gaining fearless.

 

A cheap Lord on steed is then not a risk for giving up 2 points as its only a 'unit' and is not central to our plan, its just an annoyance unit, riding around, hugging cover and killing MEQ at range.

 

At low points like 1k, agreed its prohibitive, but at 1500 or 1750 where I normally play I'm going to give it a few games to see.

[minigun762]

I wouldnt dismiss Sonic Blasters too quickly. Its still a decent amount of shots, and with a bit of Support, potentially a lot of S5. I wouldnt just drop them in randomly, but in a dedicated sonic blaster unit, they can put out some decent fire in a 24 inch bubble, drop a Sorc in there and hope for SoP.

 

I'm also thinking about running a lord on steed.

 

Lord, MoS, Steed, Brand.

 

Purpose is to just unlock NMs, and then ride around being annoying with the torrent, if you have a larger squad (perhaps the blastmasters) you can also outflank them.

 

I think there was more potential when blastmasters were limited to 1 <10 bodies. Then you could at least take 5-6 bodies with 4-5 sonics to camp a home objective and man the quad gun.

As it is now, unless you're going for the infiltration attack, I can't see the value in sonic blasters. Buffing them with the Sorcerer helps but you're still only firing a glorified heavy bolter at your opponent. With doom sirens, drakes, brands and blastmasters not to mention basic flamers, I think we're ok on the covering denying niche.

[Scribe]

Its not just the ability to deny cover, which is of course awesome, but also the ability if you roll well to put a decent number of wounds on a unit that the rest of those weapons may not, for example 5 Terminators. I see them as something of a more traditional torrent role, out there to just force things to make larger amounts of saves.

[Bonzi]

I am going to experiment with allied Slaanesh daemons in my NM army.  The CSM will do the shooting and home objective defense, the Daemons will be my aggressive CC force with massed attacks for horde and scads of rending for Terminators and the like.  Out of my 1250 list I'm going to pull the 10 man Doom Siren squad and the Mutilator to get an assassin build Herald of Slaanesh, a big Daemonettes blob, and maybe a unit of Seekers to escort the Herald.

[Rakarsis]

I am going to experiment with allied Slaanesh daemons in my NM army. The CSM will do the shooting and home objective defense, the Daemons will be my aggressive CC force with massed attacks for horde and scads of rending for Terminators and the like. Out of my 1250 list I'm going to pull the 10 man Doom Siren squad and the Mutilator to get an assassin build Herald of Slaanesh, a big Daemonettes blob, and maybe a unit of Seekers to escort the Herald.

I was thinking similar. What is your opinion of this list:

2k CSM Primary, Daemons Secondary

Huron Blackheart (Warlord, infiltrate D3 units... goes with Noise Marines)
Chaos Lord (Slaanesh, Bike, 4++, Lightning Claw, PFist, VotLW... goes with bikes)
5x Noise Marines (Blastmaster)
5x Noise Marines (Blastmaster)
5x Noise Marines (Blastmaster)
Heldrake (Baleflamer)
Heldrake (Baleflamer)
7x Chaos Bikers (Slaanesh, 2 Meltaguns, Icon of FNP, VotLW)
2x Obliterators (Nurgle, VotLW)
1x Obliterator (Nurgle)

Keeper of Secrets (2x Greater Reward for survivability)
15x Daemonettes (Alluress)
15x Daemonettes (Alluress)

Since CSM and Daemons are battlebrothers, Huron's warlord trait can infiltrate D3 infantry units, CSM or daemon. I plan to infiltrate the 2x squads of daemonettes on average. Set them up ~12 inches away, move 6in and charge hopefully 6in (2d6 with rerolls) due to Fleet, they should be charging second player turn (my first turn).

Daemonettes, Keeper, and Bikes upfield. Huron joins whichever NM squad is closest to danger. NM use their range to sit on objectives and do their thing from afar, as there should be several melee units upfield to keep the enemy busy. MoN oblits are flexible and go where needed, probably midfield. Heldrakes vector strike and roast as normal.

Alternatively, drop the Keeper (even though she is pretty points efficient for what you get), max out the daemonette squads to 20, add a herald to one of them with Locus of Beguilement and a Lesser Reward (aetherblade), and replace 1x oblit with 4x autocannon havocs.

Edited by Rakarsis, 10 March 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Bonzi]

That's a fantastically dirty list in my opinion.  A few minor points.

 

#1.  Huron is awesome and I get that you are taking him for his Warlord rule, but it seems a waste to have him sit in a MSU Blastmaster unit and hope someone comes along for him to punch.  Ideally it would be good to add a MSU+ Doom Siren squad for him to join and run towards the enemy in.  That way you are getting full points value for him by flaming/charging the enemy.  I would consider shrinking the Bikers to 5 + lord to get some points for this.

 

#2.  The Keeper of Secrets is a monster in CC, but out of all of the other greater daemons he has the least toys to help him get there.  With no armor, no shrouding, and no wings I think he is going to get hung out to dry in your list.  I would flip him for a Herald of Slan: greater gift, lesser gift, exalted locus joined to one of your blobs.  Take a greater etherblade for the +1S and hope for Cleave on the lesser table or just swap out for the regular etherblade for the specialist bonus attack.  If you roll cleave, there are not many enemies you can't destroy in CC and even without it you have a character challenge assassin that will make opponents keep their Warlords far far away.

[Bonzi]

After some difficult cuts, I've managed to fit a Slaaneshi daemon force into my Noise Marines army.  It came at the cost of my doom siren squad, the lone mutilator, and an obliterator.  What I've lost is CSM resiliency and shooting but what I've picked up is a lot of speed and CC killing power.  Most important is the addition of a lot of rending attacks to help me out with units like Terminators and Characters whom my own Lord falls short against.  I'm also exited about the Seekers + Herald combo alongside my Lord + Bikers.  The toughness and armor saves of the bikers can be used to screen the fragile Seekers on approach and the Seekers can use their deadly CC to dig the bikers out of stalemate combats. 

 

Noise Marines w/Chaos Daemons 1250pts

 

Lord: mark of slan, lightning claw, aura of darkness, bike

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

5 Bikers: power ax, meltabomb, x2 meltaguns

 

3 Obliterators: mark of nurgle

 

 

Herald of Slaanesh: greater gift, lesser gift, locus of beguilement, steed of slaanesh

 

18 Daemonettes: alluress

 

6 Seekers: heartseeker

 

As always, comments and feedback are welcome.

[Bonzi]

Ok....ouch.  I just got mauled by a BA Drop Pod & AV13 list.

 

 

I got a chance to jump to 1,500pts tonight so I ran:

 

 

Lord: mark of slan, lightning claw, aura of darkness, bike

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

5 Noise Marines: blastmaster

 

8 Noise Marines: doom siren, meltabomb, x8 extra ccw

 

5 Bikers: power ax, meltabomb, x2 meltaguns

 

2 Obliterators: mark of nurgle

 

2 Obliterators: mark of nurgle

 

Herald of Slaanesh: greater gift, lesser gift, locus of beguilement, steed of slaanesh

 

18 Daemonettes: alluress, lesser gift

 

6 Seekers: heartseeker

 

He ran BA:

 

Captain: thunder hammer, storm shield

 

Furioso: frag cannon, heavy flamer

-Drop Pod

 

10 Assault Marines: x2 melta, combat shield, power weapon

-Drop Pod

 

9 Death Company: x2 power fist, infernus pistol, bolters & ccws (Joined by Captain)

-Drop Pod

 

Death Company Dread: blood talons, melta

-Drop Pod

 

Baal Pred: assault cannon

 

Baal Pred: assault cannon

 

Vindicator

 

Vindicator

 

This type of list is the rock to my scissors.  It's fast and in my face turn 1 & 2, so no time for blastmasters to shave the enemy down.  Has more and better ranged dakka than me, which means I'm not dictating the course of the battle.  Has mostly tanks which really limit the effect of blastmasters.  Has beastly CC walkers which I can't really hurt.  Basically he does everything better than me.  My only advantage is numbers and playing towards objectives while his list is mostly geared towards tabling me by turn 3.

 

Big Guns Never Tire, Dawn of War Deployment

 

There isn't a lot of LoS blocking terrain on the board, mostly just ruins and a couple small rocky hills.  Five objectives are placed, 3 of them roughly in a triangle in the center of the board.  Another is in the right hand corner of my deployment zone, the final is in the left corner of his.

 

He deploys his Preds and Vindicators along the center in pairs with the Preds masking the Vindis (great, someone who knows how to play armor...the hits just keep comming).  I spread my 3 MSU blastmasters out along my deployment zone.  The center and right units are in cover just behind objectives, the left is behind a building but has a good fire lane.  Doom siren squad goes in the same central ruin that holds the middle blastmaster squad.  Daemonettes deploy behind the central ruin (I'm trying to bunker up and crowd out any pods from droping behind me or on the flanks of my central ruin).  Bikes + Lord go behind the rocky hill that the right hand blastmasters are on.  Herald + Seekers went on the left hand behind the same building hiding the left MSU squad.  Oblits go to the far left and the far right next to the Bikers and the Seekers respectively.  My basic setup is three bunkers centered on the three pieces of cover on my side of the board.

 

Turn 1 Him:  He pods both his dreads in focusing on the center bunker with the Nettes, Doom, and Blastmaster squads.  The Furioso ends up right in from of everyone with ideal template positioning.  The Death Dred scatters left and ends up between my center and left hand bunkers in ideal position to charge either way.  Pred/Vindi pairs move forward 12" towards my center bunker.  The Furiosos frag cannon and heavy flamer kill 6 Noise Marines out of the doom siren squad, one out of the blastmaster squad, and two Nettes (they were all decently spread out, but three templates makes for a lot of wounds and I rolled total crap on my armor saves).  Death dread kills a Noise Marines out of the left hand blastmaster squad.  Left Vindicator kills about 5 nettes.  Left Pred kills another 2 Noise Marines out of the left hand squad.  Right Vindi misses.  Right Pred pulls three Noise Marines out of the right hand squad.  At this point I'm reeling.  All my Noise Marine units have been reduced to two or three models on the the first turn.  I still have all the important weapons, but the ablative wounds are gone and he still has two more pods to bring in starting the next turn.  It also doesn't help that my dice are killing me.  I can't make a 3+ save for the life of me.

 

Turn 1 Me:  Bikes + Lord come out of cover in position to shoot/charge the right hand pred or the Furioso depending on who lives through my shooting.  Seekers + Herald come around the corner of the building they were hiding behind for a long charge at the left hand Pred.  Both Oblit squads walk out from behind cover to get LoS on the armor.  Left MSU blastmaster misses the left Vindicator.  Center MSU blastmaster misses the Furioso 4" in front of them.  Right MSU blastmaster misses the right hand Vindicator.  Left Oblits miss the left Pred with Lascannons.  Right Oblits fail to pen the right Pred with lascanons.  Bikers fail to pen the Pred with meltas.  Doom siren squad commits suicide by charging the Furioso to try and use their meltabomb (I failed three 3+ saves and gave my opponent First Blood).  Bikes + Lord fail their charge against the right hand Pred.  Seekers + Herald make an 11" charge against the left Pred, shred it with rending and lose 5 Seekers in the explosion, leaving on the Herald and the Heartseeker alive.  All of my charges were stupid, but the desperation of a horrible turn of shooting forced my hand.  At this point I'm certain the game is over and I'll be tabled by turn three.

 

Turn 2 Him:  Only his Assault squad pod comes in.  He drops it near the objective in his zone with my Herald and last Seeker within about 6" and in plain sight.  Furioso moves towards my Bikers who are hanging in the breeze.  Death Dread moves towards my Nettes.  Left Vindi moves away from the Herald, still keeping LoS on my left Oblits.  Right Vindi and Pred back up slightly with the Pred still covering the Vindi.  Left Vindi hits both left Oblits but I make one 5+ to keep the unit partially alive.  Right Vindi misses.  Right Pred hits right blastmaster squad but only kills one.  The Assault squad shoots two meltas and all their pistols at the Herald and Heartseeker, but I save everything except for one wound on the Herald. Death Dread charges Nettes and takes a glancing hit from the Corrosive Breath I rolled for my lesser gift and then loses two more hull points to rending, getting wrecked before he can even swing.  Furioso pulps 2 Bikers in CC, the Sarg was too far away to use his meltabombs in this round.  I made some key saves and the Nettes killed the DCD, but I'm still hurting bad.

 

Turn 2 Me:  Nettes spread out behind their ruin again.  Herald and Heartseeker move closer to the Assault squad.  Left blastmaster or the last left Oblit blow the cannon off of the left hand Vindi.  Center and right blasmasters and right Oblit squad manage to kill the right hand Pred and shake/stun the right hand Vindi (I hit with everything but seriously can't catch a break on rolling pens.)  Herald and Heartseeker charge the Assault squad with the Heartseeker eating it from overwatch.  More bikers get mulched before the sarg kills the Furioso with his meltabomb but sadly the blast kills the Sarg, leaving me the Lord and one meltabike.  The Herald kills five Assault Marines and takes nothing in return.  This turn felt better.  I still couldn't pen his AV to save my life but at least he was down to one functional Vindi, his pods, the Assault squad in combat with the Herald and the yet to arrive Death company + Captain.

 

Turn 3 Him:  Death Company pod comes in, dropping between my center and right bunkers and right behind my bikers.  Left Vindi backs up now that it has no cannon, trying to get away from my left blastmaster and left Oblit.  Right Vindi is stuck from shaken/stunned.  Death Company double tap my bikers, killing the meltabike and wounding my Lord once.  Herald kills four more Assault Marines but gets killed by the lone Sarg who consolidates into cover near the objective on his side of the board.

 

Turn 3 Me:  Right hand Oblits and Nettes move to pincer the Death Company.  Lord rides his bike around the the back side of the Vindi.  Left Oblit moves forward towards the retreating left Vindi.  Left blastmaster and Oblit take a hull point off of the left Vindi.  Center blastmaster can draw LoS to the Assault Sarg hiding in cover on his objective, takes the shot...and kills the Sarg.  Right blastmaster kills three death company who are in front of them.  Right Oblits double tap plasma into the death company killing three more.  Lord throws a krak grenade at the rear of the Vindi and misses.  Nettes and Oblits charge the Death Company.  Netts and Oblits kill remaining death company while the Alures locks in challenge with the Captain, causing one wound and taking none.  Captain breaks and is caught by Nettes so combat resumes.  Lord charges the Vindi and shakes it with a krak.   I'm feeling good now, with some good rolls I should have a shot.

 

Turn 4 Him:  Left Vindi drives around a hill, hiding from my left blastmaster and oblit.  Right Vindi drives away from my biker Lord.  Pod shooting kills my center blastmaster squad, leaving me with nothing to take the center objective.  Captain beats down the Alures, killing more Nettes in the moral check and breaking the Oblits who run towards my board edge.  And it goes to pot.  I can't take the center objective, his lord and vindi threaten my right objective, and my left blastmaster squad is way out of position to take an objective.  If he kills my right blastmaster squad and it goes to secondary objectives he has me beat.

 

Turn 4 Me:  Oblits continue to run, stopping 1" short of the edge.  Biker Lord moves behind the Vindi with 1 hull point.  Left blastmaster squad runs toward the center objective.  Unless I move 12" in turn 5 I wont make it.  Right blastmaster shoots at the unharmed Vindi but fails to pen.  Lord throws a krak grenade at the rear of the 1 HP Vindi, doing nothing.  Left Oblit shoots at a nearby pod and smokes it.  Nettes and Captain do nothing in combat.  Lord can't pen the rear of the Vindi with a Krak in CC.  It's all up in the air now.

 

Turn 5 Him:  Pod and Vindi shooting does nothing.  Captain takes another wound from the Nettes but kills two in return.  A terrible instability test makes the last five Nettes vanish in a puff of smoke.  Captain consolidates closer to the right hand blastmaster squad (who is holding my only objective).

 

Turn 5 Me:  Right oblits rally.  Right blastmaster squad steps forward to take the nearby objective.   Left blastmaster squad fails to make it to the center objective.  Lord moves behind the 1 HP Vindi...again.  Right oblits snap shoot lascannons at the 1 HP Vindi, hit, pen....and the vindi makes its cover save.  Lord misses with his krak grenade in shooting and CC.  

 

I roll a 1 and the game ends.  I win 3 to 2 (objective vs first blood, line breaker)

 

In the end I got a victory, but I got a mauling and played most of the game reeling from the destruction of turn 1.  My opponent was a solid player with a brutal AV list but in spite of my generally crap rolling, I made two key rolls that won me the game.  #1.  I magically kept the Herald alive to slaughter all but one guy is his only scoring unit. #2.  I landed a lucky blastmaster shot on the surviving sarg which prevented him from holding an objective I could have never pushed him off of otherwise (nobody but that 1 blastmaster had LoS).  Without those two lucky happenings I would have lost the game.  Honestly, my rolling was so terrible that I'm not sure what lessons can be taken from this game.  It wasn't skill so much as luck that won me the game.  

 

 

 

Lessons maybe learned:

 

#1.  This game was my first use of the new Daemons as allies and boy did I lean on them hard.  I rolled bad for both of my Herald gifts but subbed them out for a regular and a greater aetherblade which made for a deadly combo.  I also got lucky in rolling Corrosive Breath on my Nette squad which didn't get used much, but the overwatch + rending did kill the DCD.   The Herald + seekers destroyed a Pred and the Herald almost solo'd an entire Assault squad which was awesome (note to self: don't use seekers to tank hunt unless you want to watch them die in the explosion).  The Nettes killed the DCD, a bunch of death company, and put two wounds on the Captain before I rolled so badly for instability.  All in all I would say it was a stellar performance for the CC side of my list which has always been limited to the bikes.

 

#2.  The Bikes + Lord did diddly outside of killing the Furioso.  Bad rolls plagued this unit the whole game.  The Lord is getting the black mace period.  I need a weapon with better strength so I can at least threaten tanks.  In hind sight they did ok in killing the Furioso, basically trading point for point in the exchange.  I really needed them for busting tanks and they just were not there to do it.

 

#3.  Oblits....couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but I wouldn't have done much of anything without them.

 

#4.  MSU blastmasters should have done ok at anti-tank work but I could not roll pens even when hitting side armor.  Less a problem with the unit and more so with my rolling.

 

#5.  Doom siren squad sang its swan song today.  Nettes do more/better in CC and move faster to get there.

 

#6.  Herald of Slaanesh:  MVP.  That is one killer CC powerhouse, and the speed of Slaanesh cavalry is astounding.

 

 

I'll pick this up tomorrow.  I hope to have some basic photoshop diagrams made so these battle reports start making more sense for the readers.  Let me know what you think.

[Capt_Darius]

It sounds like bad rolling had as much to do with your loss as the mismatched army styles. I'd try running the list again against something else before totally scrapping it. It looks like your theory was sound (excuse the pun).

[Brother Ambroz]

I agree, sounds alot like really bad rolling on your part. One thing though, you say you're giving him the black mace for sure now but he needs something with better strength to threaten AV...well the black mace is great but it isn't going to do much for you there. What about instead of a power axe for your champion give him a fist? That'd give you a high strength weapon to threaten AV but you'd have to trim points somewhere in addition to trimming points for the mace.