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How will Tau affect the Ultras?


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#26
The Emperor's Champion

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Utilizing drop pods against Tau strikes me as a great idea as well, but one thing to be aware of is how much Interceptor they can get. Every battlesuit can get it, meaning the Riptide with the AP2 pie plate can potentially hit drop podded troops before they get to fire. I don't think this will invalidate a drop pod attack against Tau, just something to be wary of.

Mildly wary of.
It's an upgrade they'd have to bother actually taking, and given the other options available (like Velocity Tracker and Target Lock) and the severely limited upgrade hardpoints in which to take them (aside from the Commander), I don't see it getting used all that much.

Edited by The Emperor's Champion, 09 April 2013 - 10:17 PM.

"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop
The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#27
Brother Sergeant Scarus

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There's a pretty large difference between being shot at by BS3 Fire Warriors and BS5 Warriors, especially in combination with things loke Fireblades - they can torrent away marines and rhinos with surprising ease. And a BS 5 hammerhead is noticeably better than a BS4 one.

 

You'd be hard pressed to get more guns for 88 points that have a bigger effect than 8 pathfinders do. It's not just about accuracy, Ignoring over is huge.

 

Think about it - normally going to ground in a ruin would keep you safe from an AP3 large blast, yet after two markerlight hits you are just dying on twos.

 

Normally Blood Angels devs with a priest, in cover, is hard to shift - but I could pick them off easily. Without Ignore cover from the pathfinders they could have saved 50 percent of the damage, or gone to ground and avoided most of it.

 

I picked pathfinders because they're cheap and I have the models. Range isn't an issue for a 36" markerlight and in ruins they are just as tough as fire warriors. 

 

When it comes to target priority they make killing 'that' unit you need dead a lot easier, which can be critical for clearing objectoves, claiming first blood and so on.

 

All for less points than 5 tactical marines.

 

I can see you're quite sure they're not great, but from my experience so far they're really good. Just to ram it home, its not just about accuracy, it's allowing the big expensive guns to secure important kills with a higher degree of success.

 

Watching a railgun bounce off smoke launchers is not only disheartening but it's a waste of a key anti tank shot - just two markerlight hits and that possibility is removed.


Malithos looked at his brothers in raw disbelief for a moment, before tilting his head at the First Captain. "Are you mad, Sevatar?"

"I don’t think so. I feel fine."

"How would you stop us?" asked Var Jahan.

"I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there...''


#28
Brother Sergeant Scarus

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Just to be clear, I'm not saying Pathfinders are hard to kill, or that they will single handedly doom an army, but if your opponent does have them and you don't kill them quickly it *will* cause you problems.

 

Which is why I'd have them as high on the priority list (which was my initial '2 cents').


Malithos looked at his brothers in raw disbelief for a moment, before tilting his head at the First Captain. "Are you mad, Sevatar?"

"I don’t think so. I feel fine."

"How would you stop us?" asked Var Jahan.

"I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there...''


#29
Blue Beetle

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Lysere is right, Pathfinders are enemy number 1. 8 of them is a humble 88 points but they make the rest of the army that much better.

 

This weekend I olayed against Blood Angels using Tau and my Pathfinders were my single best unit. Think about it, 4 makerlights hit means the Ionhead firing an S8 AP3 blast not only ignores cover but is BS 6.

 

Similarly, 3 Markerlight hits and a Railhead hits on 2's and completely ignores smoke launchers.

 

I mean 8 markerlights can put two hits on a flyer and then one unit is hitting it on fours without having skyfire, and skyfire broadsides are suddenly hitting on 2's! 

 

Long story short; Tau do combined arms really well and are pretty scary when working cohesively. We have to try and  them apart accordingly and focus on the enemy units which are gluing their list together.

 

Does the Tau Codex state that markerlights can be used do alter snapshot rolls?  Previously any other wargear or special rules have been FAQ'd to disallow this unless you have the Skyfire rule.  It's basically been:  pick target, add bonuses and then you snapfire at BS1 anyway.


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#30
redmapa

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Does the Tau Codex state that markerlights can be used do alter snapshot rolls?  

 

Yes, markerlights give bonus BS to snapshots and overwatch, you'd have to hit the flyer on 6s first though but unless GW FAQs it in the future markerlights can be used to hit flyers with more units


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#31
The Emperor's Champion

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There's a pretty large difference between being shot at by BS3 Fire Warriors and BS5 Warriors, especially in combination with things loke Fireblades - they can torrent away marines and rhinos with surprising ease. And a BS 5 hammerhead is noticeably better than a BS4 one.

*snip*
Watching a railgun bounce off smoke launchers is not only disheartening but it's a waste of a key anti tank shot - just two markerlight hits and that possibility is removed.

As I said, I don't think Hammerheads themselves are worth it, with the exception of Longstrike's.
I just don't believe you should ever pay that many points for a simple weapon that only shoots once per turn. You're wasting a lot of points paying for the vehicle hull and secondary weapons (that don't contribute to the vehicles primary role) for no real reason. You can do the job of tank-killing so many other ways, and for sooo much cheaper...
  • You can buy enough Fusion Blasters to arm 3x HQ Crisis Suits, 6x Elites Crisis Suits, and a Stealth Team...for the same price as a single Hammerhead....
  • A whole Firewarrior Team with EMP Grenades (which are VASTLY more devastating to any vehicle than a Railgun could hope to be) costs the same as a Hammerhead.
  • If you took 72 Firewarriors and maxed-out your Troops slots, you could arm them ALL with EMP Grenades for the price of a Hammerhead.
  • For the price of a Hammerhead you can buy 16 Seeker Missiles, which surely you can unleash hell with if you've just got buckets of Markerlights in your army. The only vehicles that are reasonably safe against S8 are Land Raiders and Monoliths.
​Longstrike's Hammerhead is worth it because he makes that monstrosity automatically BS5 forever, gives it Tank Hunter, and lets it Overwatch and Supporting Fire.
It becomes a Hatecannon.
A gun with like a 25% chance to Glance and a 55% chance to Penetrate against a Land Raider.... That's bananas. With AP1 I think that comes out to like a 40% chance of outright destroying a Land Raider with every shot that hits.
Longstrike could potentially end a Dreadnought's assault instantly.




Lysere is right, Pathfinders are enemy number 1. 8 of them is a humble 88 points but they make the rest of the army that much better.

This weekend I olayed against Blood Angels using Tau and my Pathfinders were my single best unit. Think about it, 4 makerlights hit means the Ionhead firing an S8 AP3 blast not only ignores cover but is BS 6.

Similarly, 3 Markerlight hits and a Railhead hits on 2's and completely ignores smoke launchers.

I mean 8 markerlights can put two hits on a flyer and then one unit is hitting it on fours without having skyfire, and skyfire broadsides are suddenly hitting on 2's!

Long story short; Tau do combined arms really well and are pretty scary when working cohesively. We have to try and them apart accordingly and focus on the enemy units which are gluing their list together.


Does the Tau Codex state that markerlights can be used do alter snapshot rolls? Previously any other wargear or special rules have been FAQ'd to disallow this unless you have the Skyfire rule. It's basically been: pick target, add bonuses and then you snapfire at BS1 anyway.
Yea, it says you can use Markerlight bonuses to boost Overwatch and Snap Fire.

Edited by The Emperor's Champion, 10 April 2013 - 05:26 AM.

"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop
The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#32
Captain Idaho

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I've found Pathfinders to be hit or miss (excuse the pun); if they light up a Land Raider it can be dangerous for it but if you're in close then you will hitting other targets with your units.

Now, overwhelming an opposing Tau army with Drop pods is all fine and dandy, but if you're taking a more balanced army then you're going to need to find another way to put down these Xenos.

Often players take a single Drop Pod or 2 (with flamer or meltas depending on need 1st turn needs) so we may need to put pressure on in other ways. Gate Librarians, transports and target selection will be essential for us I feel.

#33
greatcrusade08

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a good swiss army knife is the thunderfire cannon.. i always bring a brace, and although they die to broadsides and te like, they only need one shot to have an impact on the game



#34
Brother Sergeant Scarus

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As far as those 'ponts comparisons' go - you know that's not how army building works :)! You don't take 72 Fire Warriors (then buy EMP) in a balanced list just because you cut a hammerhead...

 

If they 're sat shooting or fighting against Tyranids/Deathwing/Ravenwing/Orkswarms/Templar Tide/Foot Wolves/Other Tau/Guard shooting lists those EMP's are more of a 'waste' than a single hammerhead would be because it's 144 points that's not going to do anything. At least a Hammerhead can, you know, shoot. I might be wrong, but I'd be willing to wager that more people take 1 Hammerhead in a balanced list than do 72 Fire Warriors with EMP grenades.

 

Yes for the exact same points you get those exchanges but what you're saying does require buying other units first as well as the wargear. I do appreciate the message behind what you're saying, Tau can secure anti-tank from other places and that's very true and if I've suggested I disagree with that, I apologise because that's not my intention. There are limiting factors to some of the other anti-tank and an argument for Railguns is that they at least have good range (compared to 9'' melta-range on a Fusion Blaster).

 

Longstrike is a hammerhead, his hammerhead will probably have a Railgun (mine does) - hence the ''Seeing a Railgun bounce off smoke launchers'' or ''seeing the railgun bounce off a flat-out skimmer''. Just because he's a better shot than a hammerhead doesn't mean he ignores cover; markerlights benefit him too in the context I was discussing - they can provide Ignores Cover.

 

Either way;  as I already said - my original point was ''Pathfinders must die, if the opponent has them'' - I never wanted to be drawn into a conversation about what you can get for the same points as a hammerhead, I don't see how that factors at all into a discussion about how to beat Tau :)!  You're preaching to the converted about Hammerheads - I run a Longstrike! He still benefits from Markelights ignoring cover. That's all I was trying to convery really!

 

Anyway - back on topic (I hope):

 

Longstrike still can't overwatch with his submunition round (like I've seen some people believe) but he does make a great supporting tool for the Tau firing line. 

 

 Regular Hammerheads can take the ability to overwatch (though only once per assault phase, not lots of times like Longstrike) - it costs.... the same as two melta bombs... and is something to be aware of (even if you think you'll never see a regular hammerhead! ;) ). Though they can only fire S5 weapons (typically Twin-Linked Smart Missile Systems).

 

Idaho raises a salient point; how to beat them if you're not running a drop-pod list.

 

I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on this, and how they'd approach it with a balanced force rather than seeing how one would tailor to fight Tau.


Malithos looked at his brothers in raw disbelief for a moment, before tilting his head at the First Captain. "Are you mad, Sevatar?"

"I don’t think so. I feel fine."

"How would you stop us?" asked Var Jahan.

"I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there...''


#35
The Emperor's Champion

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Actually, you raise a point that I can't make any sense of.

Why would you EVER take Gun Drones or Burst Cannons over the SMS on a Tau tank?

The Drones I guess maybe I can see if there's somehow a use in detaching them, but the Burst Cannon in particular just completely mystifies me. Is it not just in every way a worse SMS???


"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop
The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#36
Brother Sergeant Scarus

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Actually, you raise a point that I can't make any sense of.

Why would you EVER take Gun Drones or Burst Cannons over the SMS on a Tau tank?

The Drones I guess maybe I can see if there's somehow a use in detaching them, but the Burst Cannon in particular just completely mystifies me. Is it not just in every way a worse SMS???

 

Absolutely! I had to re-read the entry several times... I really, genuinely, can't figure out why you'd take a Burst Cannon, it's worse in every single way.

 

The only possible reason I can think of, is if people had modelled their Hammerheads with the Burst Cannon last edition (it was cheaper IIRC) - but from an efficiency perspective the SMS is better every time than a Cannon.

 

I'd be happy for someone to prove me wrong :)


Malithos looked at his brothers in raw disbelief for a moment, before tilting his head at the First Captain. "Are you mad, Sevatar?"

"I don’t think so. I feel fine."

"How would you stop us?" asked Var Jahan.

"I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there...''


#37
CaptainBloodHunter

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While Hammerheads are going to be trouble some we have a soultion to most of the tau codex Tac Squads with plasma guns and cannons in Rhinos for infantry

we got Devs and Thunderfire Cannons for killing mech like devil fish and hammerheads and suits .Sternguard will help lots as theres a high chance we wont be able to get Assult terminators close enough to charge .Theres no point taking flyers as they would get shoot down too quiclky.

 

The 3-5 key units we need in a balance list to beat tau and be competitive in 6th are Libbys,Tac Squads,Thunderfire Cannons ,Sternguard and Land Raiders Due there high Armour Value

 

Lastly we might as well post some lists showing examples of good counter ideas and competitive but Balanced list as well


Edited by CaptainBloodHunter, 10 April 2013 - 09:09 PM.


#38
The Emperor's Champion

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I wouldn't take Land Raiders against Tau.

I think my whole anti-Tau army would basically be Gate Librarians, Sternguard, Tactical Marines, Drop Pods, 2x Whirlwinds, 1x Stormraven, a load of Land Speeder Typhoons.
​But then that's basically my standard army for all purposes anyways.


The only vehicles I'd consider taking are highly mobile and long-ranged ones.

 

  • Whirlwinds to give Firewarriors and Pathfinders hell while hiding out of line of sight from the big kill guns.
  • Land Speeders Typhoons to give EVERYONE hell while zipping around from cover to cover staying out of line of sight of the big guns.
  • Drop Podding Tacticals to lock down pretty much any non-vehicles.
  • Sternguard with Combi-meltas and Heavy Flamers to just ruin whatever they come across.
  • Librarians to hopefully insta-kill Riptides in melee and teleport Sternguard Squads around the board after landing.
  • Stormraven to hover around behind buildings being obnoxious with anti-tank and blast template spam.

I feel like the ability to fire 20ish S8 missiles every turn OR carpet the battlefield in blast templates means you're fairly well prepared for fighting most armies.

 

 

 

  • Terminators seem like a terrible idea against an army that can easily hit you with S8 AP2 large blasts
  • Land Raiders seem like a terrible idea against an army that is fairly mobile, has access to a bazillion EMP grenades, and a gun that can outright kill a Land Raider 40% of the time.
  • Bikes seem like a waste against an army with basic weapons that out-range them and match their enhanced Toughness.
  • Dreadnoughts seem like a bad idea because they're too slow to keep out of line of sight of all the various big guns, and charging enemy infantry is complete suicide if they took EMP Grenades.
  • Devastators are too immobile and likely to just get blown up.
  • Vindicators are too slow and short ranged.
  • Predators just seem useless compared to so many other options.
  • Thunderfires....I dunno. I guess they'd probably be useful, but I can't see them being more useful than the cheaper Whirlwinds.
  • Scouts don't seem like something I'd use. I generally ignore the use of cover anyways, so Scouts are really never my style (hence the increase in meaninglessness of Markerlights in my world), but especially against Tau, who can ignore cover at random and have a fair number of AP4 weapons, I don't know that Scouts would do very well.
     

 

  • Assault Marines and Vanguard should be good, but I don't know that they're better than Land Speeder Typhoon Squadrons.
  • Stormtalons are just about as good as Typhoons, I guess....
  • Legion Of The Damned could actually be pretty useful. Having these guys Deep Striking in and then running around with a load of Melta weapons (mobile Multimeltas FTW!) might not be a terrible plan.
  • Deathwind Launchers on Drop Pods might not be a terrible plan (can you tell I like Blast weapons?). You can park them wherever you want and give the Tau additional things to worry about.                                                                                                                                                                                           
  • Master Of The Forge on a Bike with a Conversion Beamer. He's like our version of Longstrike, except vastly more mobile and his gun fires blasts. Possibly worth taking.
  • Kantor's pretty good. His Storm Bolter's AP4 Assault 4 will let him chew through Tau infantry with bullets before charging in and bashing them to death with his fist, his 12" bubble of +1 Attack should help other squads mess up Tau units in melee, his Orbital Bombardment could make a pretty good mess of a Hammerhead right away, he makes Sternguard into Scoring units, and he has save to make him potentially survive if he gets caught up in a storm of firepower.
  • Vulkan He'Stan might not be be a bad idea, depending on how many Melta and Flame weapons you take. My Sternguard and any Legion Of The Damned I'd take would just be armed to the teeth with Meltas and Heavy Flamers...


 


"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop
The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#39
Captain Idaho

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I can't see Tau models assaulting a Land Raider since that brings them closer to what's inside, which combined with a Drop Pod squad and Gate Librarian being on their door step means pretty much losing the game.
Since Broadsides are so great now and people are looking at Sniper teams etc, I can't see any more than a single Hammer head in most Tau lists. That's a single S10 shot that will on a platform ideal for our Drop Pod attack in the first place.

I think GW is ensuring Land Raiders are still pretty tasty because so far all the new goodness they release for the Codex books in 6th edition can't do much against it.

RE: Burst Cannons on Hammerheads

The previous edition had a pair of Burst Cannons that was replaced by a single Smart Missile System. I haven't read the Codex yet but is this not still the case then?

#40
greatcrusade08

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i must admit, all these 'ignores cover' shooting makes me worry a little for my scout army.

it seems GW sat around pre 6th and decided i was having too much success and have been on an anti-10th campaign ever since,

if the 6th ed C:SM doesnt fix what 6th ed broke, i will probably end up quitting 40k tbh

 

but i prefer to stay positive at the moment, Ravens made it into the dex, just need dedicated LSS, better weapon options and cheaper points values and ill be happy



#41
Captain Idaho

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Going by what the Scouts are like in Codex DA, it's likely they'll be cheaper. I'd like to see them get grenade launchers with rad grenades, at least in the Scout Bikers but also in basic Scouts squads.

This would encourage me to actually take them since lowering a target's toughness by 1 then hitting them with a full unit of Bolter Marines will be a useful tactic. From an all Scouts perspective, lower toughness will help boost the poor old Scouts hitting power.

Fingers crossed.

It's hard to see which direction GW will go with regards to the current dregs of our Codex. Assault Marines still aren't worthwhile in DA armies really, whilst all Scouts armies might not even factor on their radar.

#42
Brother Sergeant Scarus

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i must admit, all these 'ignores cover' shooting makes me worry a little for my scout army.

it seems GW sat around pre 6th and decided i was having too much success and have been on an anti-10th campaign ever since,

if the 6th ed C:SM doesnt fix what 6th ed broke, i will probably end up quitting 40k tbh

 

but i prefer to stay positive at the moment, Ravens made it into the dex, just need dedicated LSS, better weapon options and cheaper points values and ill be happy

 

I actually played against a scout army with my Tau last weekend too (as well as Blood Angels, Chaos and Necrons).

 

Ignores cover is definitely an issue (in concert with submunition rounds particularly) - and even with going to ground for the 2+, save the sheer amount of shots fire warriors can put out was problematic for his units.

 

Obviously this is anecdotal to you and based off one game that I had with a friend, so I'd never say the sky was falling for the 10th or anything like that, but target priority is as key as ever - units with mutiple markerlights are a huge threat to scouts.

 

In that regard my opponent (who's also my friend) said next time he's going to pay more attention to the units with markerlights whatever form they take (my six surviving pathfinders really helped my Longstrike in eliminating Scout scoring units throughout the course of the game).

 

I'm sure you'll adapt -  just remember that it takes two markerlight hits for one unit to have Ignores Cover and multiple smart missile systems are also effective since they torrent through the 4+ save to a degree.

 

My only problem with a lot of 'Anti-Tau' solutions (like Whirlwinds) is that they're pretty bad against marines and MEQ are so prevalent that in an all comers list I'm not sure how much mileage we can get out of whirlwinds still.

 

Stormravens, Sternguard, Drop Pods however are all solid choices against most whatever you fight - so there's definitely mileage from them as ever.


Edited by Brother Sergeant Scarus, 11 April 2013 - 10:18 AM.

Malithos looked at his brothers in raw disbelief for a moment, before tilting his head at the First Captain. "Are you mad, Sevatar?"

"I don’t think so. I feel fine."

"How would you stop us?" asked Var Jahan.

"I’d kill you, of course. What kind of question is that? But let’s hope we don't reach that point. Emotions are running high, and my spear is all the way over there...''


#43
Cptn. Palladorus

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i must admit, all these 'ignores cover' shooting makes me worry a little for my scout army.

How do you handle a Noise Marine army? Whatever you do, adapt it for use against the Tau.


After the lifting of the Siege of Terra, and the end of the Horus Heresy, Imperial forces set out to assault Chemos from orbit, intending to destroy the Emperor's Children's fortress-monastery and eradicate any trace of Chaos from the world. Following this action Chemos was quarantined by the Inquisition, and in the past ten millennia no further information, not even a record of Exterminatus, has appeared in Imperial databases regarding the world.

-- Index Astartes: Children of the Emperor

 

Spoiler

#44
greatcrusade08

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to be fair ive never face a noise marines army..

my general strategies usually involve hitting first hitting hard and riding out until the final whistle.. target selection is really important to me and i rely heavily on my thunderfires :P



#45
The Emperor's Champion

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I can't see Tau models assaulting a Land Raider since that brings them closer to what's inside, which combined with a Drop Pod squad and Gate Librarian being on their door step means pretty much losing the game.
Since Broadsides are so great now and people are looking at Sniper teams etc, I can't see any more than a single Hammer head in most Tau lists. That's a single S10 shot that will on a platform ideal for our Drop Pod attack in the first place.

I think GW is ensuring Land Raiders are still pretty tasty because so far all the new goodness they release for the Codex books in 6th edition can't do much against it.

RE: Burst Cannons on Hammerheads

The previous edition had a pair of Burst Cannons that was replaced by a single Smart Missile System. I haven't read the Codex yet but is this not still the case then?

IMO, there's not much risk to losing the game by sending a few Firewarriors off to nuke a Land Raider. I'd rather have a team of these guys (which are really cheap) hide out ahead of the rest of the Tau lines ready to run out and ambush an incoming Land Raider with sudden death, and subsequently get wiped by the passengers, than letting the Land Raider actually reach the Tau lines.
The faster that a LR gets opened up, the sooner the Tau army can work on killing the passengers and attempt to kill THEM before they reach the Tau lines.

 

Hell, the Firewarriors don't even need to assault the Land Raider. If they're hiding in buildings, ruins, or rooftops along a street, they can just hurl the EMP Grenades since they have an 8" range. That leaves the Firewarriors relatively safe from getting immediately assaulted by the passengers.


Burst Cannons and SMS on a Hammerhead are both a single Twin-Linked weapon.

 

Going by what the Scouts are like in Codex DA, it's likely they'll be cheaper. I'd like to see them get grenade launchers with rad grenades, at least in the Scout Bikers but also in basic Scouts squads.

This would encourage me to actually take them since lowering a target's toughness by 1 then hitting them with a full unit of Bolter Marines will be a useful tactic. From an all Scouts perspective, lower toughness will help boost the poor old Scouts hitting power.

Fingers crossed.

It's hard to see which direction GW will go with regards to the current dregs of our Codex. Assault Marines still aren't worthwhile in DA armies really, whilst all Scouts armies might not even factor on their radar.

I think the Scouts will inevitably be cheaper and get Dedicated LSS's.

 

My only problem with a lot of 'Anti-Tau' solutions (like Whirlwinds) is that they're pretty bad against marines and MEQ are so prevalent that in an all comers list I'm not sure how much mileage we can get out of whirlwinds still.

Stormravens, Sternguard, Drop Pods however are all solid choices against most whatever you fight - so there's definitely mileage from them as ever.

I think people put too much value on good AP and devalue the ability to cause tons of wounds for cheap.

 


Whirlwinds are pretty cheap and they can drop S5 pieplates every turn. If you hit a Marine Squad with one of those you can probably kill a couple every turn.

I think people also just generally devalue AP4.
Scouts, Necron Warriors, IG, StormTroopers, Firewarriors, Pathfinders, Kroot, Scarabs, Gaunts, most Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Gargoyles, Rippers, almost all of the Khorne daemons etc etc etc etc will all have a really bad time against S5 AP4 pieplates.

Whirlwinds being able to hit almost the whole table and able to hide while blasting people is pretty solid, especially for the price.
 

 

Granted, there's several Space Marine armies, but it's mostly just them that Whirlwinds are of minimal use against.


"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop
The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#46
MagicMan

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Even when you're fighting MEQ, the Whirlwind comes in handy. Its easy to say they're no good against MEQ, but most Marine armies have squishier bits. 

 

Cultists for Chaos, Scouts for BA/CSM, Fenrisian Wolves/Scouts for SW, Neophytes for BT, Inquisitor + Chums for GK.

 

Plus with everyone allying in Guard and others... Theres more mileage than ever for Whirlwinds atm. Can't go wrong for 85 points imo, always makes its points cost back. If you kill four marines in a game with it, you've made its points back (almost ;) ).


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#47
greatcrusade08

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IMO thunderfires are superior to whirlwinds



#48
The Emperor's Champion

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I can't bring myself to consider Thunderfires because they're too fragile, more expensive, and can't hide while shooting.


I prefer Deathstorm Whirlwind Drop Pods more than anything, but I always feel wrong suggesting someone should use them tongue.png
10pts cheaper than a Whirlwind and able to put out the firepower of an ungodly number of Whirlwinds on the first turn? YES PLEASE!
So broken....


Edited by The Emperor's Champion, 11 April 2013 - 05:25 PM.

"The ltramarines are the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters. From the dawn of the Imperium they have served the Emperor with loyalty and a ferocity that no others can match." "in faith and in valour they are unmatched." "The ltramarines are the exemplars of the Space Marines, the purest and noblest of all Adeptus Astartes." "Many hold the ltramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself." ~Games-Workshop
The Codex Astartes: Taking Away The Freedom Of The Astartes To Pigeonhole Themselves,
And Restricting Them To Supreme Flexibility Since M31
.


#49
CaptainBloodHunter

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IMO  as well i prefer thunderfire fire cannons normally i take 1or2 with Devs



#50
greatcrusade08

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6th ed made thunderfires alot more resilent than in 5th, and in 5th they were pretty good when used correctly