Fragioso: Am I doing it wrong?

[ASSASSINAWOKEN]

I am having great success the my Furioso with frag cannon and meltagun. I tend to use one in 1500 and two with more points. When I deploy I look for a nice juicy spot of troops and drop for it. Mostly to do one thing remove the troops and and deny the opponent a scoring unit. Sometimes they last long, sometimes they last less. I recommend looking for a goal for the Furioso to achieve and then go for points back theory.

[JamesI]

Blood talons arent DCCW's as far as I know though? thought they counted as lightning claws and thus were AP3?

2 BF's do much through terminators nicely (aside from storm shields...) but your limited in attacks and dont get reroll to wound... Ive tried a fragioso once or twice and both times they flamed a squad or two with heavy casualties only to get destroyed or immobilized making them somewhat useless after that. They defenitly need support to work I feel. Either dropping a sternguard squad or another Fragiosos aside from them should increase their lifespan somewhat (hopefully that is...)

Blood Talons are not DCCWs.

[Morticon]

Correct - Blood Talons are Ap3 - so 2+ holds them up.  Only Blood Fists are AP2

[Demoulius]

Blood talon Furiosos scissor through anything that isent equipped with a 2+ save though ^_^ S6 with reroll to hit you say? Well hello mr carnifex/hive tyrant/trygon/tervigon/etc. I hit you on 3's (well except the tyrant) wound on 4's with reroll and you wont get armour save. When people charge your furioso in cover and you get to hit first....the expression of terror on their faces is delicious :D

 

*coughs* anyway... back to the fragioso. Has anyone ever managed to make them work whilst footslogging? With a pod they work because your opponent cant stop them before they are flaming his backside... I doubt your opponent would ever let them get close if he were on foot.

 

Soooo... I think they can be dropped and left to their own devices, or supported with anohter pod unit. In which case the drop pod element becomes pretty costly pretty fast... But has more chances of succeeding I guess :)

[Riggs]

I love my fragioso! Out of the many games I`ve feilded he has only lived past turn 1 a couple times, but even when he doesn't make up points in kills, the fire power that he takes away from mephy is priceless.

Some tricks I do is try to put a unit between him and a tank when I pod him in. Then declare the tank as my target, and even if its out of reach of the HF and FC I still get to place the templates(no rule saying I can`t as long as the grapple is in range). Then magna grapple the tank and hope to pull. Yes it gets that cover save, but 5+ isnt that scary.

Against people wise to my ways I simply place him near fire support troops(long fangs, defense line gunners, ect.). I DoA 2 melta RAS turn 2(so far) now a days so his only job is melt troops and absorb fire.

[Demoulius]

Riggs, weapons out of range arent allowed to fire (if im not mistaken) so if the flame templates wont touch the target itself, my guess is you cant fire them.... Mind if you pull him with the grapple first and THEN are in range I dont think theres a problem at all :) and you might tank shock the squad that you want to flame as well :D

[Disruptor_fe404]

Riggs, weapons out of range arent allowed to fire (if im not mistaken) so if the flame templates wont touch the target itself, my guess is you cant fire them.... Mind if you pull him with the grapple first and THEN are in range I dont think theres a problem at all and you might tank shock the squad that you want to flame as well

Indeed. They are 'range: template' after all.

Though the grapple is fired at the same time, so I doubt that's viable. But I'm not 100% on that.

[knife&fork]

All shooting from a unit happens at the same time. Inlcuding PotMS, DA and SW spilt fire.

[Riggs]

Mhm, but I read the rules and the only thing that touches the subject(that I found) was a model can only shoot a target if one of its weapons are in range. So place the template going twords the tank, oh no it didn`t reach, I hit these guys though. Imo makes more sense than 12" range flamers just because I added a magna grapple.

However if I am missing a written rule some where, please tell me :)

[Demoulius]

Shooting happens at the same time but AFAIK there is no restriction in which order you fire your weapons? But I do see the point... If the flamer was out of range before the towing it would be kinda iffy to tow and then flame

[Disruptor_fe404]

Mhm, but I read the rules and the only thing that touches the subject(that I found) was a model can only shoot a target if one of its weapons are in range. So place the template going twords the tank, oh no it didn`t reach, I hit these guys though. Imo makes more sense than 12" range flamers just because I added a magna grapple.

However if I am missing a written rule some where, please tell me

No quotes on me (I'm at work and I don't bring the rulebook to work!), but you basically admitted it yourself. You nominated a target, it was out of range, so you 'missed'.

The chaps in the ++OR++ would have a better grasp of this!

[Riggs]

Gah lack of articulation strikes again! Lol I ment if he is in magna grapple but out of flamer range. But you guys have made me really question my sillyness so I will bring this up on the ++OR++

[Calnus]

I've ran a similar situation, but in reverse.  melta'd a close tank and the template dropped over that tank and his friend past him.  We counted it in the game as hitting both (just like you would if a blast was larger than the model being aimed at), but the hits on the second tank were discrete from the hits on the melta target.  that seems perfectly logical and within the rules.

 

I think so long as you make sure to count hits properly, you should be good.  if you fire at B, which is farther away than A, and land the template over a tiny sliver of B and 5 models in A, then you get 2 (frag cannon) hits on B and 10 on A. 

 

Now if you don't have any way for the template to touch unit B, which is your declared target, I feel like it shouldn't fire from an RAI perspective.  From a RAW perspective, I can't find where it says either way...

 

If I landed just a little too far out for my template to catch my intended target (B), then I think I'd be playing it most fair to just call A my target and get the extra wound or two from the melta/grapple.  Sure, its not optimal for me, but feels more fair to my opponent.  Besides, I would try to have other ways to kill that tank if it was really important anyway, so its not tactical suicide.

[Ushtarador]

If the primary target is a vehicle, the template must cover as much area of the vehicle as possible. Everything else under the template is hit as well. I have however not found a similar rule when shooting at infantry (only that you must hit as many models as possible), so it seems that it is perfectly fine to barely scratch infantry to hit other units as well.