ClarenceD's True Scale Everything

[clarenced]

Hi everybody.

First time poster, long time lurker.

Nice to meet you all!

I'm starting this on-going project log to showcase my attempts at true scaling.

Being a fan of true scale, it helps that I've had inspiration from the many pioneers of the 'movement'.

However my take on it is slightly different. That being the fact that I will also be working on humans as well.

Before posting pictures I thought I'd explain a little bit more of my concepts: GW kits are great but their proportions leave plenty to be desired. Gigantic heads, tiny torsos, huge unwieldy weapons, short legs and so on. Having IG and Astartes stand at the same height, you know the case.

My works focus on correcting these issues I personally find to be quite distracting on the aesthetic aspects.

In my mind's eye Astartes are huge, bulky and intimidating creatures. Less than human and yet much more, hulking and Godlike. They'd tower over the average human. To me, in power armor they stand at 8ft. With primarchs standing over 9.

I follow the art on the novels, various marketing material and arrived at what I am about to post. They TOWER over pretty much everything.

For purist gamers, I doubt they'd make the gaming table. Just a little idea: my marines stand at about 65mm.

Do stay tuned.

[JAFisher44]

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning for this. Are you also increasing the height for IG? If you are using a 28mm scale then your 65mm Marines would be nearly 14 feet tall. (13.92 based on a 28mm = 6ft.) Otherwise you are going to have to increase the size of all models to compensate. If a 65mm Astartes is 65mm a 6 foot guardsman would have to be about 49mm tall. This falls less under true scale and more into re-scale.

[clarenced]

Yup. You hit the nail on the head. The humans get a rescale.  I guess the term rescale is more appropriate.

My IG stand about 40-45mm, give and take.

Camera's charging, I'll post up pics when I can.

[JAFisher44]

Well, sounds like an interesting modeling challenge, but I can't imagine them on the tabletop. They are almost Inquisitor scale. You would need quite a table for those guys.

[clarenced]

Wow, I'm so sorry I haven't posted ANYTHING.

Life and work got in the way but here's a little treat:

 

First the usual default scaling for GW minatures, A, Black Templars Terminator and a Cadian I just cobbled together:

 

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w556/Clarence_Lenon_Dorai/Miniature%20WIPs/IMG_0383_zpsdbaf28f0.jpg

 

This took awhile as I'm really a noob at sculpting. I present Grand Master Belial of the Deathwing and some unnamed Cadian Company commander, WIP of course. I'd say they are 70% done:

 

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w556/Clarence_Lenon_Dorai/Miniature%20WIPs/IMG_0384_zpse032b11c.jpg

 

Next up is a scale comparison as to how much my marines (and humans) have grown:

 

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w556/Clarence_Lenon_Dorai/Miniature%20WIPs/IMG_0386_zpse8546a73.jpg

 

That's all for now. At present I have really raw WIPs of Typhus, a Slaaneshi Raptor, Abaddon, Azrael and an interrogator Chaplain. I'll get more details on em and post em up when I'm ready.

 

Enjoy!

[clarenced]

Alright, one, more for the road:

 

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w556/Clarence_Lenon_Dorai/Miniature%20WIPs/IMG_0389_zpsb178d1da.jpg

[Brother Anvilus]

nice, I like it.Reminds me of the artworks where they use a tiny head and a HUGE body.If I'm not mistaken, Greyall uses this 'styl', no?

[clarenced]

Thanks!

 

I drew inspiration from the manytrue scale artists and blended their styles. Chiefly the artwork in the various codexes over the years, I'm a big fan of the huge body, small head kinda look. I'd think with the various organ implants and whatnot their bodies would have quite a barrel-chested appearance, thickened limbs and a very huge, distorted proportion.

 

If I saw a person like that running at me with a pistol and chainsword, I'd s#!t bricks!

[geordie]

Some unreal skills you have Clarenced! There have been a few outstanding 'truescale' / 'artscale' threads on here over the years but your 'rescale' guys certainly look unique. I can only imagine the time and effort it must take to do this, so kudos for your dedication. A small army such as Deathwing might be achievable in a reasonable amount of time. 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing a power armoured marine. I'd like to know what you have planned for vehicles too.

 

OT - Slightly off topic but there's been speculation and debate over in the Heresy sections about Orks during 30k being significantly larger than their 40k equivilants. Obviously you can use Nobs as Boyz and so on but at the HQ level you've ran out of models. What I'm saying is if you ever do a truescale Warboss post a link! Ghazghkull Thraka would be about 5 inches tall!

[Tenshi]

Very cool!

But being so huge, I find (at least on the photos) Belial's sword too small for him. On the Cadian Commander everything looks the perfect size, but Belial's sword is more like an oversized dagger with a very limited reach.

 

But very impressive work overall

[clarenced]

Very cool!

But being so huge, I find (at least on the photos) Belial's sword too small for him. On the Cadian Commander everything looks the perfect size, but Belial's sword is more like an oversized dagger with a very limited reach.

 

But very impressive work overall

 

Thanks Tenshi.

You're right about the sword, right now it looks like a gladius more than anything else. I plan to lengthen the sword towards the tail end of the project when everything else is settled.

[clarenced]

Some unreal skills you have Clarenced! There have been a few outstanding 'truescale' / 'artscale' threads on here over the years but your 'rescale' guys certainly look unique. I can only imagine the time and effort it must take to do this, so kudos for your dedication. A small army such as Deathwing might be achievable in a reasonable amount of time. 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing a power armoured marine. I'd like to know what you have planned for vehicles too.

 

OT - Slightly off topic but there's been speculation and debate over in the Heresy sections about Orks during 30k being significantly larger than their 40k equivilants. Obviously you can use Nobs as Boyz and so on but at the HQ level you've ran out of models. What I'm saying is if you ever do a truescale Warboss post a link! Ghazghkull Thraka would be about 5 inches tall!

 

Thanks loads Geordie.

As far as time consumption goes, once the basics are nailed down, it doesn't take too long. Problem is my procrastination. Even worse is my need to always jump onto another project/ character, leaving the current project stranded for months on end. haha.

 

I'm working on the PA marines as we speak. Vehicles are gonna be the toughest, as a landraider would be about the size of a small desk I'd reckon. I'll start on the smaller ones like bikes and landspeeders first.

 

Funny you brought up orks, because I'm working on them too. (see the distraction?) I took an AOBR boss, butchered him and he stands eye to eye with my obliterator. (yet another distraction).

 

I hope to get more pics up. I'd wanna sculpt something about 80% done before I post up, else it would be just a mass of pale yellow minis.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Let me see if I understand this correctly: You're trading an "unrealistic" anatomy for one even more unrealistic and exaggerated?

 

The thing about two-dimensional artwork is that exaggerations are easier to accept or dismiss, but what often works in a drawing doesn't always translate well to sculpture. Personally, I think the new amatomical dimensions of the space marine art from recent years has crossed the line from cool and jumped straight into absurd in a lot of cases.

 

As you're using a marine in TDA as your first test, here's a few examples of this art trend from the new Chaos codex:

 

http://i.imgur.com/TihujeF.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/7m1Le0j.jpg

 

 

It's quite difficult to imagine how bizarre these marines would look out of their armor. Their shoulder joints would have to be at the level of their ears, not to mention how long and gangly their arms, torso, and legs would be!

 

Here's another chaos marine in TDA and PA Red Scorpion done by Karl Kopinski for Forgeworld with much more realistic proportions:

 

http://i.imgur.com/hJFDUlQ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/kZd0dG9.jpg

 

 

Now, if we use the traditional proption measurements for drawing people, your average male should be 7.5 heads tall. Exaggerated heroic proportions can stretch it to 8.5 or 9 without straining belief too much. Here's those two marines again:

 

http://i.imgur.com/HFVlbI2.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/FRXeMTw.jpg

 

 

The chaos terminator comes in around 9 heads tall and the PA marine is 8. Given the angle of the drawing, it's probably safe to add another half head height in there. In contrast, here's the chaos termie from the codex again:

 

http://i.imgur.com/ge7H7Xk.jpg

 

 

He comes in at a whopping 11, and he's not even standing up straight like the other two, so it's probably closer to a 12 head height. From 7.5 to 12 is a 66% increase, and even considering the heroic proportions of 8 - 8.5, that's still a 50% increase  in height without actually making the head any larger.

 

As I mentioned earlier, what can work in art seldom works when made real. I applaud your sculpting skills (and might even be a bit envious) as well as the scope of what you're wanting to do, but even great sculpting skills can't make this pass the suspension of disbelief test. It just looks off.

 

 

 

[Grizzly_bear]

Awesome skills fella....top notch

[Bryan Blaire]

Your sculpting skills are great, ClarenceD! That said, I'm not a fan of the scaling. The human looks far to thin and out of proportion (that great coat would be his entire thigh length, which appears to be longer than his entire torso, and the weapons on the Marine and IG look off size-wise. The IG commander might look better once painted (right now the color variation is giving some wonky visuals, IMO), but both models just look totally off. I seriously admire your sculpting talent and your vision to start a project like this though, so run with your ambition! It takes all kinds of art (and folk) to make this world go round and you are displaying a huge amount of creativity and talent.

[clarenced]

Your sculpting skills are great, ClarenceD! That said, I'm not a fan of the scaling. The human looks far to thin and out of proportion (that great coat would be his entire thigh length, which appears to be longer than his entire torso, and the weapons on the Marine and IG look off size-wise. The IG commander might look better once painted (right now the color variation is giving some wonky visuals, IMO), but both models just look totally off. I seriously admire your sculpting talent and your vision to start a project like this though, so run with your ambition! It takes all kinds of art (and folk) to make this world go round and you are displaying a huge amount of creativity and talent.

 

Thanks for the kind words and input!

The human is pretty darn lanky, but as I stated, it's a WIP. (see how I get distracted and not finish even the most basic stuff?) 

I still have to do the following:

 

1)widen his overall girth, thus throwing the lankiness out and back into proportion.

2)lengthen the greatcoat a little bit more so it doesn't look like a 3/4 jacket and more like a longish trenchcoat.

3)the bolt pistol is huge to begin with on the default models so even on mine, it looks more like a submachinegun, but I read somewhere they use a similar bolt pistol pattern to Astartes - need ideas how to make it more in scale if that were the case. Might have to scratchbuild one out of plasticard.

 

 

Belial needs a lengthening on the sword definitely but I'll do that up once I'm nearly done on the model. The storm bolter, I can't see any problems with it as compared to the default models. (perhaps maybe you could help me by telling me what's wrong as I'm not sure)

[clarenced]

Let me see if I understand this correctly: You're trading an "unrealistic" anatomy for one even more unrealistic and exaggerated?

 

The thing about two-dimensional artwork is that exaggerations are easier to accept or dismiss, but what often works in a drawing doesn't always translate well to sculpture. Personally, I think the new amatomical dimensions of the space marine art from recent years has crossed the line from cool and jumped straight into absurd in a lot of cases.

 

As you're using a marine in TDA as your first test, here's a few examples of this art trend from the new Chaos codex:

 

http://i.imgur.com/TihujeF.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/7m1Le0j.jpg

 

 

It's quite difficult to imagine how bizarre these marines would look out of their armor. Their shoulder joints would have to be at the level of their ears, not to mention how long and gangly their arms, torso, and legs would be!

 

Here's another chaos marine in TDA and PA Red Scorpion done by Karl Kopinski for Forgeworld with much more realistic proportions:

 

http://i.imgur.com/hJFDUlQ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/kZd0dG9.jpg

 

 

Now, if we use the traditional proption measurements for drawing people, your average male should be 7.5 heads tall. Exaggerated heroic proportions can stretch it to 8.5 or 9 without straining belief too much. Here's those two marines again:

 

http://i.imgur.com/HFVlbI2.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/FRXeMTw.jpg

 

 

The chaos terminator comes in around 9 heads tall and the PA marine is 8. Given the angle of the drawing, it's probably safe to add another half head height in there. In contrast, here's the chaos termie from the codex again:

 

http://i.imgur.com/ge7H7Xk.jpg

 

 

He comes in at a whopping 11, and he's not even standing up straight like the other two, so it's probably closer to a 12 head height. From 7.5 to 12 is a 66% increase, and even considering the heroic proportions of 8 - 8.5, that's still a 50% increase  in height without actually making the head any larger.

 

As I mentioned earlier, what can work in art seldom works when made real. I applaud your sculpting skills (and might even be a bit envious) as well as the scope of what you're wanting to do, but even great sculpting skills can't make this pass the suspension of disbelief test. It just looks off.

 

I don't game, so I decided to rescale the models. Here goes:

 

In defence to my concepts, thier are reasons why I went along with what I did.

 

Here goes:

 

I'd think that with all the various implants, extra organs, bone growth and so on, Astartes would look ridiculously misproportionate out of their armor either way. Perhaps having longish torsos however with a barrel-chested appearance, ever-so-slightly shorter but thicker arms, slightly longer and thicker femurs to brace their weight. They'd have larger feet, their heads would be similar in size to regular humans but having a broader jawline.

They'd look pin headed especially in terminator armour. Factor in too, the height boost from their thick and heavy spaceboots whilst in terminator armor.

I'm a big fan of Kopinski's art. I'd run with that but they just look a little too normal (human proportions) for my tastes.

Granted the art in the 6th ed Chaos Codex is off, even I find it so. Those are just way off. Look at the (first) Chaos Terminator Champion's legs. Factor in how thick their armor is suppose to be. That'd mean that he'd be lanky because the armor doesn't look too thick as the fluff suggests.

I like Clint Langley's art. So I'm finding a medium between his and what I envision my Astartes to be. Ever seen the cover of the Grey Knight Omnibus? I'm going for something similar to that. Uber thick armor. Hell yeah.

 

Given their ridiculous weight, (780lbs??) their hardened bone structure, all that and having increased muscle mass, they'd look freaky and far beyond human. I'm merely going by that. Perhaps if I had the skill I'd sculpt their heads slightly bigger.

As far as miniatures go, truth is it's my first time doing something like that. I really find the default proportions horrible. GW's sculpts are fantastic but as someone who reads the books and admires the art on the various novels, I'd wanna follow what looks freaky (hulking Gods Among Us type supersoldiers) as opposed to something that looks funny to begin with.  

Look at the Templar terminator. His legs and arms have to be quite literally skin and bones to fit in that. Look at the default Cadian. He has the proportions of a toddler. I'm just doing what is in my mind's eye.

 

Thanks for the input and taking the trouble to do the proportion checks. I really appreciate it, :)

My inspiration for true scale marines are: Lamenter, Doghouse and Tsuro. They really got me started and ever since then I got hooked! I just thought I'd go crazy and make em gods among men. "See em and I'd freeze in fear because they look so damned freaky" type stuff.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

I definitely agree with you that the current figures do have their issues. I have a few of the older IG figures, mainly Steel Legion, and they are a little more "in scale" with the marines - granted, not as much as the books and art make out, but it's closer. I blame GW for not sticking with a scale and/or not increasing the size of the marines along with them.

 

For my part, I've never had so much of an issue with the marine proportions that I wanted to alter them that much or jump on the TrueScale bandwagon once it started rolling. The closest I ever came to it was waaaaaay back when 4th edition first came out, if I'm remembering correctly, and the Kopinski illustration of the Crimson Fist was in the new rulebook. While I thought the proportions were way off (I checked, and it's 11 heads tall), I really liked the feel of it and tried to recreate it in a figure, which I actually never finished:

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/hMCThiB.jpg

 

 

While he's not scaled up as much as "real" TS, it's the closest I've come to it on one of my figures, and it really wasn't my intention at all. I just wanted him to be bigger then the other marines and because my sculpting skills were crap back then, I used the lower legs from a termie because I wouldn't have been able to enlarge the greaves as much as I wanted with greenstuff. As far as I know, all this TrueScale stuff wasn't happening yet, so maybe I'm a TS hipster?

 

Anyway, thanks for taking my previous post as it was intended, constructively, and not as demeaning or saying you suck. I rarely offer any sort of real criticism on any of the hobby boards since most consider it hateful and get nasty and defensive, but I had a feeling you wouldn't take it that way. I'm of the opinion that if we don't get honest criticism on our work, we'll never strive to improve. You didn't mention any art background, but I was into it heavily when I was younger, and had my works routinely torn down by teachers, both public and private, as well as my grandmother who was also an art teacher; it gave me pretty thick skin to say the least. While I may think your marines are a bit too exaggerated, it is damn fine work, and I'd definitely like to see where you take it.

 

-BCK

 

 

 

 

[clarenced]

Dear God it's been more than a year.

Okay, here's something with some semblance of completion. Still gotta smoothen out the kinks in the sculpt. The left boot is so incomplete, thinking of changing the cape to have that braided cord to hold it to that Slaanesh mark brooch or thin down the cloth. Forearm armor trims to follow. Faceplate too.

It's actually a gift for a friend, decided to go with an Emperor's Children officer.

 

http://i1329.photobucket.com/albums/w556/Clarence_Lenon_Dorai/Miniature%20WIPs/WP_20140719_10_29_04_Pro_zps237a0b06.jpg

[Kizzdougs]

Awesome! Great looking Emperor's Child. I particularly like the detailing on the armour and the cloak looks perfect. I wish he was mine :)

[geordie]

Great to see this thread be updated! Excellent work on the EC. I think it'd be interesting to see one of your creations fully painted. Are you planning on doing any Horus Heresy characters? Coz that would be all kinds of awesome.

[Badaab]

I commend you on the efforts with these, as the sculpting quality looks quite nice.
However, I'd have a look at the arm length and the hand size as you increase the overall proportions of the torsos and legs- the arms are looking a bit short and the hands much too small for a model this height.