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Grey Knight Shunt Force Interceptors and DreadKnights alpha


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29 replies to this topic

#1
ja_147

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Hi Folks
So i play game the other day using my deadknight for first time and was so impressed with him. He shunted across the board turn 1 flamed a few long fangs and took apart a lone wolf and unit of grey hunters.
so I put together a shunt list.


1850

 

Cortez


 

2 untis of 5 acolites with boltguns


 

3 units of grey knight interceptors all units have 2 incinirators and swords. One unit has psybolt ammo.


 

3 Dreadknights heavy incinirators, Great sword and personel teleporters


 

what do you think , its very risky on troops wise but i can imagine the faces of of people when they see 3 dreadknights and 3 interceptor squads in there face turn 1



#2
Castellan Alaric

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no psycannons? how will you deal with vehicles? in my opinion psycannons will deal with everything, while incinerators deal only with infantry. you also won't any way to deal with flyers but psycannons as well without a quad gun. i guess  you're saving on points so you can fit all 3 dreadknights in there, which i might say you should drop one to buy more henchmen. also bring them psybacks. get 3 squads with razorbacks and psyammo will provide a little ranged support for your interceptors and dreadknights. your bolter squads won't do anything...5 shots at 24"? really piddly to be honest. 5 bolters and a plasma in a psyback won't cost more than 100 ponits and will be a decent backfield sitter. shunt everyone turn 1 and lay down some serious hurt shooting, covering with the psybacks sitting in cover.

 

i will say that against a heavy deep strike or drop pod army you might struggle, because you won't have the buffer between your shunting units and your troops. that's really the only way your list will succeed to be honest. 



#3
Justicar Enethys

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I've got to give you props for committing to a theme like this - but it is just weak in so many areas. You acknowledge that it is risky with the low troop count, but that is understating it. You have 10, T3 5+ save models armed with boltguns - without any transports - as your scoring contingent. No. A thousand times no. Always no.

 

 

Never mind the look on your opponents face when your shunts come in. He'll be laughing when - without a second thought - he wipes your scoring off the board and then proceeds to toy with you for 4/5 more turns. In non-objective games you might find more success, but in objective games, it's almost not worth unpacking your army.

 

Interceptors can be great - but here they are your most numerous models. And they lack any CC upgrades and lack Psycannons. 20 of them don't even have Psybolt Ammo. They are just too weak I'm afraid. They don't fill the many gaps that the list has. The Dreadknights are a little better and are configured as I like to have them. However, 3 of them is excessive, especially when your list needs so much else in it.

 


If I were you - and really, really wanted to keep a 'shunt theme', I would keep 2 Dreadknights and 2 Interceptor Squads. I'd keep the Dreadknight configuration and swap out the Interceptor Incinerators for Psycannons and give both squads Psybolt Ammo. CC upgrades can be applied to taste. This leaves you with a very strong core of shunting units, but frees up 580 points in this configuration - and is making your 20 Interceptors better than the 30 you had before in the large majority of situations.

With those 580 points you need troops. And/or a GM to make some of your shunting units scoring.



#4
ja_147

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I like all those ideas althoug it hard to fit so much in 1850.
i was thinking of dropping a incinataror from each unit and adding psycannon, for some lucky anit tank shots.
The Acolites were really just for legal reasons. it was pritty much a do or die list.
im going to see how effective 2 dreadknights are and if they proform well may not use a third (i will be sad) in 2000pts mind hes in.

I have so far dropped a interceptor unit

added a GM

added 2 6 man strike squads 1 psycannon

and put psybolts on the two interceptors

 

im allso thinking of dropping an incierator on each squad and adding a psycannon.



#5
Justicar Enethys

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I wouldn't drop ONE Incinerator from each Interceptor squad. I'd drop both or keep both. In this case I would personally keep the Psycannons. They are cheaper (20 points saved per squad) and are better in far more situations. As your Interceptors are full 10 man units, adding the Psybolts is a good move in my opinion as it's only 2.5 points per man to increase the number of targets you can threaten and allows for easier wounding on things you already were.

 

I'd still drop the 3rd Dreadknight. I LOVE Dreadknights - especially so in 6th - but I think they suffer from diminishing returns after 2. The points you would free up would seriously bolster the rest of your list. Getting the Strikes in there in place of Acolytes is a good idea but try to get them a transport and maximise their numbers. It WILL help you a great deal.

 

Adding a GM will help with your low troops as previously mentioned. On a good roll with TGS you could have your Interceptors/DKs scoring which would make the list much more solid, just be wary of the times where TGS only affects 1 unit or where you want to use it for the other abilities (Scout/Reroll 1's etc).



#6
ja_147

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Ive made those changes and I'll see how it goes. The only thing is I was told its not really worth having 1 or 2 transports as they just get popped and the easy vps. 50pts for rhino or for a defence line is take the line though the unit won't be moving much.

#7
Justicar Enethys

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This is true. A couple of transports don't stand much of a chance and you'd shouldn't hold your breath on them making it through the whole game. However - they do give your troops some mobility and they do provide mobile cover while they're up. Even if they get wrecked they provide your troops something to bed down behind. Furthermore, given cover of their own they can last a few turns. And remember - anything which can easily take out your transports (High S Low AP weapons) that IS shooting at your transports ISN'T shooting at your DKs :)

 

Definitely give it a try and see what you think. You have a solid idea for a fun force. I myself like Dreadknights and Interceptors, just don't limit the rest of your force by over-investing in one aspect of it :) You can make the points for a few cheap transports/ADL and I think they'll change up your lists durability considerably. The GM making some of your shunting units scoring also help immeasurably in this list :)



#8
ja_147

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Hmm so the list Ive made stands as this
Gm
Basic armed

2 x Strike units 10
2 psycannons
Psyammo
Rhino

2 x interceptor units
2x psycannons
Psyammo

2 x Dreadknight
Heavy incinerators
Personnel teleporers
All the units are basic armed
That came to 1855 (no one will mind if I'm 5 over)

#9
Justicar Enethys

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I'm liking that list much more ja_147 :) There's things I'd change personally - but they would remove your theme of having a shunt heavy force too much. 

 

That you've got a couple of solid scoring units with the potential to have up to another 3 (All of which can be combat squadded further if the scenario being played demands) is a good thing. Even with just one unit being made scoring via TGS, you'll have a solid enough list while maintaining your Shunt units. With Strike and Interceptor squads at 10 models, 2x Psycannons and Psy Ammo is solid and dependable. Many would argue that you SHOULD put CC upgrades into them, but as neither are really CC units, I tend not to myself. If points allowed I'd maybe put a hammer into each squad and possibly a halberd on the Justicars, but points don't allow it in this instance and they aren't essential upgrades for these units.

When you get a game in, please let me know how you did and where the list was strong or could have used improvement - and I'll be happy to thrash out any more ideas with you :) 



#10
AnImA8

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I like this new list a lot. My main concern is that there's a huge proliferation of AP 3- weapons, especially with CSM Heldrakes--which I hear can Vector Strike Rhinos and then torch the guys inside in the same turn--and the new Tau and DAs, with all their plasma. I'm not entirely sure what a good solution would be to combat this other than trying to MSU the Strikes with Psybacks to disperse the number of targets the enemy has to deal with. Two shunting DKs should also attract enough AT fire to keep the Psybacks alive for quite some time while they ping away at the enemy. Where to get the points though, I can only offer the Psybolt Ammunition, but I really think that they give the list some punch... Another thing to consider is where the GM is gonna go. He makes me want to suggest taking Terminators, but they'll go down to Tau and DAs AP2- fire just like the Strikes will...

Best I can offer is:

GM

Terminators (6): /w psycannon: 265 pts
Strikes (5): /w psycannon, and daemon hammer; and Razorback: /w pysbolt ammunition: 170 pts
Strikes (5): /w psycannon, and daemon hammer; and Razorback: /w pysbolt ammunition: 170 pts

Interceptors (10): /w 2x psycannons, and psybolt ammunition: 300 pts
Interceptors (10): /w 2x psycannons, and psybolt ammunition: 300 pts

Dreadknight: /w Personal Teleporter, and Heavy Incinerator: 235 pts
Dreadknight: /w Personal Teleporter, and Heavy Incinerator: 235 pts

1850 exactly, 3+ scoring units, Terminator escort for the GM that can DS, and Psybacks offer more weapon platforms. I can't say objectively that this list is better, and it may not be to your personal taste. Either way I can't wait to see some BatReps and I wish you the best of luck! :)

Edited by AnImA8, 05 May 2013 - 12:35 AM.


#11
IndigoJack

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Ive made those changes and I'll see how it goes. The only thing is I was told its not really worth having 1 or 2 transports as they just get popped and the easy vps. 50pts for rhino or for a defence line is take the line though the unit won't be moving much.

It seems I'm a little late to this, but I play mech GK and I lose first blood quite a bit. That said, in the 50+ games I've played in 6th, I've only lost because of first blood 3 times. The balancing factor is that most objectives are worth several points and just capturing more objectives than your opponent will carry you through.
"Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position. But certainty is an absurd one." -Voltaire

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." -Einstein

#12
ja_147

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Well i used the dreadknights this weekend. the list i used wasnt the one that I planned out on here, just slightly moddified as i dont have all the models yet.

1 GM

2 GK Strike 2 x psycannons

1 x Intercepter 2x psycannon

1  (8) terminator 1 psycannon

2 dread knight incin, PT, GTS

 

took on a marines force

capitain

LIb

3 Tactical squads

1 (10) Assault Squad

10 scouts sniper rilfes 

2 x whrilwinds

1 x vindicator

2 attack bikes multi meltas

10 sturnguard

 

both dreads and intecetpers shunted on T1 toward one of this board edges where 10 scouts, 10 Sguard, LIB and whirlwind were placed and over the next 5 turns the dreadknight strugged of ever thing that was shot at them and swept accoss the board killing everything. the interceptors took a bit of a beating only had three left at the end but they killed a bit including the vindicator. 

the termintors really didnt do anything apart from draw fire at them. Im really impressed on how well the dreadknight proformed. Makes me want to run 3 but i think that could be over kill.



#13
Justicar Enethys

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Your list is over by 10 points. I'm sure your opponent didn't mind - just pointing it out.

Re: Your Dreadknights. It comes back to the start of this thread with you saying how you wanted to use 3 of them. It's your army and you can do as you please. You pay for them, paint them and play with them so your list is your call. However, think about it for a second. Your 2 Dreadknights did well and impressed you. Fair enough. My two impress me on a number of occasions and support each other well. But what would a third one add to your list? It would certainly reduce - massively - the points you could put into anything else. 780 points at 1,850 level on 3 NDK's is a large investment. The models look great and they can be devastating when used properly, and with TGS on your GM they can potentially all be scoring - but 3 of them is definitely taking it too far at this points level - in my opinion anyway. I love NDKs and were they cheaper would have more than 2 ( I play 2,500 point games) - but they're not cheap in the configuration you and I like them, and at this points level that's a real consideration.

R: The Terminators. I'm a huge Terminator fan and the core of my army (At 2,500 point games) accommodates 25 of them. I'd be interested to know how you played them? You say they didn't do much but draw fire. Well drawing fire is very useful in its own way ... I see in the list you used you had 8 with one Psycannon. It's hardly an optimal configuration. In this list I'd have been tempted to have 5 with one Psycannon or bulk them up to 10 with two Psycannons.

I'm glad your list did well - I definitely think you are looking in 100% better shape than at the start of this thread. You've made some solid choices and your list looks good for it in general. Were I to make any changes to your list - but to try and maintain your jump/shunt heavy theme, it would be to shuffle around your 'natural' troops. 8 Terminators with 1 Psycannon is not efficient. I would personally raise this to 10 Terminators with 2 Psycannons which can be bought as two separate squads of 5 or as one squad of 10 and combat squadded as desired. With the remaining 105 points I would buy a Psycannon for the GM so that he contributes more to the army than just TGS. Put him with the Terminators and his Psycannon with potential Precision shots will markedly increase your damage output from them. If you combat squad the Terminators, put him with the shooty unit (Put both Psycannons into one 5 man and have the other as a screen/.CC unit). This will leave you with 60 points (As I'm aiming at 1,850 to make you legal again). With those 60 points I would personally put Psybolt Ammo on your units to increase their damage output. My version of the list would look like this.


GM w. Psycannon

Terminators  x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo (Combat squad as needed)
Strike Squad x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo

Interceptors  x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo

Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT
Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT

I would combat the squad the Terminators to be honest as the footprint of a 10 man unit makes them practically impossible to shield/hide. Purchase them as one to save points on buying 2 x Psybolt Ammo. You have 2 native Troop choices. It isn't much, however - one of them is a Terminator blob which can and should break down into 2 units. That's 3 - and considering the idea of your list is to Jump/Shunt there - these units can all be made scoring in a best case scenario using TGS. Even if you only roll 1 unit - it immediately increases your scoring - and none of your units are poor.

This revision means you have nothing less than S4 in shooting. You have 48 S5 shots, a potential of up to 28 S7 Rending shots (4 potentially being Precision Shots from the GM) and 2 big NDK S6 templates o' doom. You lose some Strikes, but they were the weakest part of your list to be fair. Losing ten of them to bulk out your Terminators, make the GM truly dangerous and make the whole of your army more of a threat in shooting is a worthy trade-off in my view smile.png


Edited by Justicar Enethys, 13 May 2013 - 01:58 PM.


#14
ja_147

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Now this is intresting as I really wanted to use teminators. Sorry i had 7 terminators make me dead on 1850 and all units has psyammo. Gm had psy ammo on blind nades.

 

I think i will try that list suggestion out. I get nervous about using expensive units. i never commited them realyl very much in the game they just plodded forward. shooting and dieing. I dont think i know how to use them right yet. i allways feel they need to be deployed, so i dont waist 1 turn of shooting, but maybe they should be deep striked instead.

whats you terminator load out. Im thinking in a 10 man unit 3 hammers x 3 halbards x3 swords. My justicar has a ward stave, are they worth it?

DO you not thing the psycannon is expensive on the GM 45pts.



#15
ja_147

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i worked out that

GM w. Psycannon 220pts
Terminators  x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo 470pts
Strike Squad x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo 240pts
Interceptors  x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo 300pts

Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT 260pts
Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT 260pts

= 1750

which gives me 100pts left

what are my options

Cortez?

Somthing from the imperial armour?

A psyback?

shame i cant find 10pts then i could take a 110 Inq with psycannon

 


Edited by ja_147, 13 May 2013 - 03:11 PM.


#16
Justicar Enethys

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Hey man :)

 

Terminators are OK when deployed, you just have to remember that they aren't invincible. Make use of cover, leap forward from cover to cover if you can - like with other troops. The advantage is that if you get caught out of cover, they're still hard as nails. They will die. Everything in the game can and will - but Terminators usually make your opponent work harder for the kill. I personally walk my Terminators (Run in the shooting phase if there really is nothing to shoot at) up to mid table. From there I go for any centrally located objectives and/or push on into enemy territory.  With a 24" bubble of solid shooting, being durable against many incoming attacks and being no slouches in CC either - they make the perfect unit to be in the thick of it. You do have to be bold with them - they're Terminators after all - but use some care and they should prove reliable enough for you :)

The Psycannon on the GM is obscenely expensive. Where it's 15 points on an OMI in TDA, 20 for a Paladin, 25 for a Terminator, 10 for a Purifier, 20 for a Purgation Squad, 20 for a Strike etc etc - 45 points is hideous. I resent paying that much for it. However, with that being said - it is an excellent weapon, and in the hands of a GM can potentially be Precision Shots so you can snipe out specific models in enemy squads. Furthermore, due to his BS6 - he will get some form of re-roll on any misses (1's only). The second chance is much harder - but it's a chance nonetheless. The GM is useful to the army, and so by investing those 45 points, he provides his utility via 'TGS' and now can also slot into your Terminator Squad and add to their firepower. I had a hard time taking it at first on a GM. They were a lot of points to 'find' in my list at the time. However, I've not regretted it since taking him and he is a feature in all of my 2,000+ lists nowadays. 

 

As for Terminators and their CC weapons. I always go with the following now. 2 Halberds, 2 Swords, 1 Hammer per 5 men. The Justicar gets one of the Halberds. I double this as the squad goes up to 10, so 4 Halberds, 4 Swords and 2 Hammers. I did used to use the Warding Stave on my Justicars and from time to time they proved their worth in challenges - but honestly - for those 20 points I could always find a better use. I'm sure many will swear by them and that's cool. I used to think they were pretty neat (And looked good!) but I just can't justify the points any more. I keep my Terminators as cheap as I can now. No banners, no staves. They both have great use, but I do more with the points elsewhere.

 

Deep striking your Terminators is always an option you have. You can buy them as one unit to save on the Psybolt Ammo, then choose to combat squad them at deployment and then deep strike 5 out of your 10 men if you so wish, or just deep strike the lot. However, in your list I would imagine they might better serve you by stomping up the board, using LOS blocking terrain and cover where possible. I say this because you have 2 NDK's and a unit of Interceptors already providing great mobility and hitting your opponent from angles he maybe isn't prepared for. Just my opinion anyway. Nothing wrong in shaking it up once in a while :)



#17
Justicar Enethys

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i worked out that

GM w. Psycannon 220pts
Terminators  x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo 470pts
Strike Squad x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo 240pts
Interceptors  x 10 w. 2 x Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo 300pts

Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT 260pts
Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT 260pts

= 1750

which gives me 100pts left

what are my options

Cortez?

Somthing from the imperial armour?

A psyback?

shame i cant find 10pts then i could take a 110 Inq with psycannon

 

Doh! My bad mate. Apologies for that. I made the list exactly to 1,750 and not 1,850!!! Embarrassing slip up there!

I would drop the Psybolt Ammo on your Strikes at this point. It's nice to have - but it is the most expendable upgrade in the face of an overall better option. Drop that Psybolt Ammo freeing up 20 points, leaving you with 120. Get that OMI  smile.png Him and your GM can link up with 2 the Terminators in a number of ways to make that unit (Those 2 units when combat squadded) much more fearsome.  Go for it wholeheartedly. 

 

The remaining 10 points could go on a couple of upgrades in your list easily. A Daemon Hammer on your Interceptors would work, or any one of a number of 5 point upgrades on your GM. Failing that - 3 servo skulls on your new OMI would come to 9 points and provide you with a few Deep Strike options if you wanted and help against enemy infiltrators and scout moves.


Edited by Justicar Enethys, 13 May 2013 - 03:22 PM.


#18
ja_147

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Wow massive thanks for the input. I quite excited about my next outing. got a lot to learn mind.  

now how woudl you drop this to a 1500pts army. I have a mini tournement coming up.



#19
Justicar Enethys

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You're more than welcome mate :)

If I was to drop this to a 1,500 point list I would consider a couple of things. Firstly I'd think about dropping the Interceptors down to 5 with one Psycannon. and removing their Psybolt Ammo. I know - this reduces one of your signature units, but they are still in there and can still annoy the opponent - but with 2 NDK's - there's still plenty of mobile threat in the list ;) At this stage I would consider dropping the GM. He's great and I make extensive use of him, but he is 220 points and at 1,500 you have enough scoring in a unit of Strikes and 2 units of Terminators. This would leave you with 30 points spare. Perhaps put the Psybolt back onto the Interceptors? I dunno - example list:

OMI w. TDA, Psycannon, NDH, PML 1

Strike Squad x 10 w. Psycannon x 2, Psybolt Ammo
Terminators  x 10 w. Psycannon x 2, Psybolt Ammo 

Interceptors x 5 w. Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo

Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT

Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT

 

This is 1,500 exactly. It maintains two Dreadknights and a small unit of Interceptors to keep your theme while providing a tough scoring unit in the Terminators and some Strikes for bulk, fire support. The OMI enhances the Terminators shooting and provides a 3rd Psycannon. Solid.

Alternatively, perhaps this:



OMI w. TDA, Psycannon, NDH, PML 1

Strike Squad x 10 w. Psycannon x 2, Psybolt Ammo
Strike Squad x 10 w. Psycannon x 2, Psybolt Ammo
Terminators  x   5 w. Psycannon, Psybolt Ammo

Interceptors x 5 w. Psycannon

Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT

Dreadknight w. HI, NGS, PT

 

This comes to 1,495. Very similar but reduces the Terminators in favor of more boots on the ground. The Terminators along with the OMI are still a tough unit capable of putting a threat out to anything they may encounter, but you maintain a more solid firing line with the Strikes. To facilitate this though, the Interceptors lose their Psybolt Ammo to maintain maximum efficiency with your spending of points in that regard.



#20
ja_147

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I think maybe the second list to have more boddies , and one more psycannon.
Whats your thougts on purgation squads?
For those interceptors i can get a small unit of 5 with 3 psycannons. (first list you mentioned)


Edited by ja_147, 14 May 2013 - 06:50 AM.


#21
Justicar Enethys

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I don't mind Purgation Squads in theory. They can smack out a lot of Psycannon shots. Astral Aim is a pretty nifty ability that is sure to annoy your opponent to the Warp and back, but my issue with Purgation squads is that for them to get the most out of their Psycannons, they need to stay still. So to use them as a Devastator squad stand in - which is what they are intended to be, they have to hang back. Here - the 24" of the Psycannon fails a little as it needs to be mid range or closer to the opponent to be of any use. Marching Purgation squads up the board is a no-no as then they are reduced to the Assault 2 profile. Still useful - but only half as effective. So - they stay back - and if they were scoring they'd make a sweet home objective camper unit - but they're not unless hit with the GM's 'TGS' stick.

They have their uses - but the rest of your army is quite powerful as they move forwards. Jumping/shunting/Terminators etc. I'd support that style with the Interceptors as the Purgation squad can largely be left alone by your opponent while he works on the rest of your list out of range of the Psycannon's 24".



#22
ja_147

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Can't wait till new book for them. Hopefully TheY hey will bring the points down on gks and sort so things out. Even though the current codex is good

#23
Justicar Enethys

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I think the Purgation Squads have a place. I've certainly seen them used to excellent effect - and when the enemy is pouring forwards and attempting to overwhelm your lines, 16 Psycannon shots from cover (especially with re-rolls to hit!) can be truly devastating! Oh - so your Orks or Nids are coming at me through cover or from behind that brick wall? I don't care - SPLAT. They are useful - but in a list such as yours where the bulk of your units are getting up in your opponents face - leaving the Purgation squad behind seems a bad tactical move. Could work - but you're making it harder on yourself.

 

I have contemplated them before, but I run a largely Terminator based list with some Interceptors, Dreadknights and Dreadnoughts thrown in there as well as a Stormraven. Having a Purgation squad would be a hindrance. Keep with your Interceptors, they'll achieve more for you I think.



#24
ja_147

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just one thing i was a little confused on the FAQ, is a grand master allowed to exchange his power for a roll on the diviniation, priomancy , telekisis table?



#25
Justicar Enethys

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Unfortunately not mate, no. Only Inquisitors and Librarians may do that down.gif