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Raven Guard Questions

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#1
Sanguis militis

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So in lieu of the Horus heresy/30k rules and the new space marine codex that's about to drop, I've been preparing to shelf my grey knights and already sold my 3k+ blood angels to begin a new chapter. After long research and decision making it came down to either Raven Guard or Emperor's Children and I chose to go with the Ravens.

As cool as the army is generating so much interest with players and despite the wealth of information on the chapter/legion there are a few things about them that remain a mystery to me. I was hoping maybe someone on here can answer these questions because they are pretty important to me. When I start an army I develop my own fluff for them; it makes the whole process of building, painting, and gaming that much more fun and breathes life into each individual model (yes I'm one of those guys that names each individual marine from captain/hq all the way down to random bolter wielding tactical marine.)

So the questions...

1) who the hell is the raven guard chapter master? I've looked everywhere and can't find a name. We have just about every companies captains.. But the most important of their leaders remains a mystery?

2) this ties into the first question... Do you one of the captains handle a dual role of captain and master?

3) is there anything that sets the raven guard librarians apart from other chapters? I want to know what they specialize in and if it has to with the geneseed from Corax.

4) is it okay to make the majority, if not all, of my marines to have great hair? I'm a huge fan of 80s hair metal and a musician myself and I'd like to show it (subtlety) in my army. My blood angels, the models without helmets, all had flowing blonde locks like Sanguinius, and it gave my army a nice aesthetic that really set then apart from any other BA army I've seen. With the RG I'd like to give them all either long black or grey/white hair.
They'd look pretty bitchin' and even if I get some flak for it, I'm still going to model them with hair anyway I just want to know if in the lore they had hair like their primarch.

5) is it save to say they use assault and vanguard squads more so than other legions/chapters almost to the extent of blood angels and say night lords? I want to have plenty of jump squads and air support with heavy talon and raven usage, possibly 3 of each.

6) lastly, for a fluffy army, does it make sense to give all my sarges and captains lightning claws? I know it's what Corax used so it just seems fitting for the test of the armies leaders to emulate him on the battlefield. Also, can the captains take relic blades? For my 30k army I will be giving paragon blades to anyone who can take them, but for 40k games I'd like that sword to have some more oomph than a standard power sword. Korvydae is the only one who will keep his thunder hammer.

Ill post more about this in the army list section but I'm planning on a force heavy with fliers like I stated above, with tactical squads and sternguard squads in drop pods while assault and honor guard/ possibly one vanguard squad, deep strike or infiltrate in behind enemy lines. I want a force that takes the fight to the enemy right away so the battlefield is in chaos by turn two.. A chaos that I have control over.

"...So fear not and be proud, for we are the sons of Sanguinius, the protectors of mankind. Aye, we are indeed the Angels of Death."


#2
Malus Trux

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Well Raven Guard are the only 1st Founding chapter without a named chapter master. The title is all that it's currently known which is Master of Shadows. The positions of chapter master is generally separate from first captain but it has been known to over lap from time to time. If you want to combine the two day your army is set in a time when one has yet to be filled and the other is covering for both.

While RG share the same powers as the other codex marines they had some unique ones in the Death Watch RPG. I'm not at home so I can't look it up but someone might before I get home.

Raven Guard has official art with long hair. There are some that say the population that they recruit from are descended from Native Americans so it's not far fetched to have your army looking like they took cues from their Primarch.

While the chapter is codex they are fond of putting together strike forces from multiple companies. Who's to say the eighth company isn't with your army which would explain than two RAS squads. Also it's safe to say RG favor Vanguard over Sternguard.

Lightning claws are the preferred combat weapon like hammers for Salamanders or axes for Executioners so go nuts.
Repent! For tomorrow you die! For the Khan and the Emperor For Russ! For the Wolftime!

Fear our name, for it is vengeance Into the fires of battle, unto the anvil of war The Flesh Is Weak

We March for Macragge By the Blood Of Sanguinius Victorus aut Mortis

I have a lot of sympathy for the Mantis Warriors. They've had to endure some of the worst events in WH40k. The Badab War, the Tyranid incursions, C.S. Goto. The worst.

#3
KGatch113

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1. Name unknown.

2.unknown.

3. No differences from regular Libbies.

4. Yes, by all means. My RG has many Battle Brothers sporting long hair, ala the Crow.

5.Technically no. See below.

6. Corax did not use lightning claws exclusively. He uses a whip too. So while the fluff says they like to use l-claws, it is not mandatory, so yes, relic blades are fine.

 

The RG are a codex chapter. While they may be sneakier and have some skill in using jump packs, their main method of attack is not via jump packs. In fact, the original fluff had them as masters of the drop pod assault ( I miss those rules). 

 

You almost might be better served modelling up assault marines and VV on foot, to hop out of scouting rhinos if you intend to use the new Chapter Tactics. Scout 12 inches, then move 18 and you are in the face of the enemy. 


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#4
Bannus

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4) Yes, they do have hair - and you can paint it whatever color you like as long as it is black. :P

 

 

Seriously, though - only Scouts will likely have different colored hair, because as a RG Marine ages, his hair turns jet black (along with his eyes) and his skin turns alabaster white.


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#5
Sanguis militis

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I'm thinking of making a squad of scouts modeled as guns n roses circa 88'. Either green stuff or the hair from some small troll dolls should do the trick 😁

"...So fear not and be proud, for we are the sons of Sanguinius, the protectors of mankind. Aye, we are indeed the Angels of Death."


#6
Knight of the Raven

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As KGatch113 said, the Raven Guards are actually the first founding drop pod experts, along with very good scouts (even those who have already earned their power armor). The rules have made them Blood Angels lite sometimes, but they actually consider Sanguinius' legion to be clumsy brutes. This is of course an average, I'm sure some Raven Guards think they're actually pretty cool and others think they're even worse.

 

As such, even because of the rules they're about to get, they don't favor assault and vanguard marines. Unless the lore changes in the next codex, of course.

 

The chapter master isn't mentioned as far as I know, not even in the article about Kayvaan Shrike in the February 2005 White Dwarf.

 

As for the lightning claws, only Shrike and his command squad are actually known to use them. Other marines do what they want. You don't bring two lightning claws against a chaos land raider. And they certainly are old enough a chapter to have relic blades to hand out to their captains.


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#7
Ravenfeld

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Technically the Iron Hands don't have a Chapter Master either, they have a Clan Council that directs the actions of each of the clan companies...

 

That being said, I always pictured the Ravenguard as having long hair, along with their pale white skin and black eyes.. such a cool look.


"Recall the Principle Lesson." -- "Only the Spirit is Pure - The mind may be swayed, the body may fail"

"Only the soul cradles vengeance - Become the weapon of the soul." -- "Where the mind hesitates, overcome it - Where the body fails, replace it"

"Aspire to the condition of the Primarch - Emulate his union with steel" -- "Never waver, never retreat, never doubt."

"The flesh is weak - The weak shall be purged - What remains is strength" -- "The flesh is weak - What remains is strength." -- "The flesh is weak."

 

My Iron Hand Clan Company-- IA: Clan Bracchus   <---- FINISHED!


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#8
KBA

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As KGatch113 said, the Raven Guards are actually the first founding drop pod experts, along with very good scouts (even those who have already earned their power armor). The rules have made them Blood Angels lite sometimes, but they actually consider Sanguinius' legion to be clumsy brutes. This is of course an average, I'm sure some Raven Guards think they're actually pretty cool and others think they're even worse.

 

As such, even because of the rules they're about to get, they don't favor assault and vanguard marines. Unless the lore changes in the next codex, of course.

 

Actually, there already is precedent that they do favor assault marines in our most recent codex on page 25:

 

In pursuit of their covert goals, the Raven Guard depend heavily on Scout forces able to act alone for extended periods of time, and rapid-reaction forces such as jump-pack equipped assault troops who can quickly capitalise on the foe's weaknesses

 

So the assault marine jump pack fluff has been there for years now, with their only special character captain equipped with one, along with the influencing popularity of the Horus Heresy books which have their primarch romping around in a special jump pack with wings. I wouldn't be surprised if this aspect of the Raven Guard is expanded upon in the new dex considering the new jump packy rules. smile.png


Edited by KBA, 29 August 2013 - 07:01 PM.


#9
KGatch113

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As KGatch113 said, the Raven Guards are actually the first founding drop pod experts, along with very good scouts (even those who have already earned their power armor). The rules have made them Blood Angels lite sometimes, but they actually consider Sanguinius' legion to be clumsy brutes. This is of course an average, I'm sure some Raven Guards think they're actually pretty cool and others think they're even worse.

 

As such, even because of the rules they're about to get, they don't favor assault and vanguard marines. Unless the lore changes in the next codex, of course.

 

Actually, there already is precedent that they do favor assault marines in our most recent codex on page 25:

 

In pursuit of their covert goals, the Raven Guard depend heavily on Scout forces able to act alone for extended periods of time, and rapid-reaction forces such as jump-pack equipped assault troops who can quickly capitalise on the foe's weaknesses

 

So the assault marine jump pack fluff has been there for years now, with their only special character captain equipped with one, along with the influencing popularity of the Horus Heresy books which have their primarch romping around in a special jump pack with wings. I wouldn't be surprised if this aspect of the Raven Guard is expanded upon in the new dex considering the new jump packy rules. smile.png

You miss the words  "such as" in that description. They are a codex chapter who use the right tools at the right time. 


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#10
KBA

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As KGatch113 said, the Raven Guards are actually the first founding drop pod experts, along with very good scouts (even those who have already earned their power armor). The rules have made them Blood Angels lite sometimes, but they actually consider Sanguinius' legion to be clumsy brutes. This is of course an average, I'm sure some Raven Guards think they're actually pretty cool and others think they're even worse.

 

As such, even because of the rules they're about to get, they don't favor assault and vanguard marines. Unless the lore changes in the next codex, of course.

 

Actually, there already is precedent that they do favor assault marines in our most recent codex on page 25:

 

In pursuit of their covert goals, the Raven Guard depend heavily on Scout forces able to act alone for extended periods of time, and rapid-reaction forces such as jump-pack equipped assault troops who can quickly capitalise on the foe's weaknesses

 

So the assault marine jump pack fluff has been there for years now, with their only special character captain equipped with one, along with the influencing popularity of the Horus Heresy books which have their primarch romping around in a special jump pack with wings. I wouldn't be surprised if this aspect of the Raven Guard is expanded upon in the new dex considering the new jump packy rules. smile.png

La la la la la updated fluff is the devil, and I shall fight it unto my dying breath la la  la la la la

 

whistlingW.gif



#11
KGatch113

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As KGatch113 said, the Raven Guards are actually the first founding drop pod experts, along with very good scouts (even those who have already earned their power armor). The rules have made them Blood Angels lite sometimes, but they actually consider Sanguinius' legion to be clumsy brutes. This is of course an average, I'm sure some Raven Guards think they're actually pretty cool and others think they're even worse.

 

As such, even because of the rules they're about to get, they don't favor assault and vanguard marines. Unless the lore changes in the next codex, of course.

 

Actually, there already is precedent that they do favor assault marines in our most recent codex on page 25:

 

In pursuit of their covert goals, the Raven Guard depend heavily on Scout forces able to act alone for extended periods of time, and rapid-reaction forces such as jump-pack equipped assault troops who can quickly capitalise on the foe's weaknesses

 

So the assault marine jump pack fluff has been there for years now, with their only special character captain equipped with one, along with the influencing popularity of the Horus Heresy books which have their primarch romping around in a special jump pack with wings. I wouldn't be surprised if this aspect of the Raven Guard is expanded upon in the new dex considering the new jump packy rules. smile.png

La la la la la updated fluff is the devil, and I shall fight it unto my dying breath la la  la la la la

 

whistlingW.gif

Not fighting it. Just pointing out you are wrong based on the evidence you presented.


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#12
Brother Tyler

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Actually, the Index Astartes article in which we first received solid indicators about the character of the Raven Guard had a statement about using scouts. This was far overshadowed, however, by the rules and lore that indicated a definite favoritism and specialism in the use of Assault squads and drop pods in highly effective deep strike attacks. Those rules didn't allow for "more" Assault squads, although Command squads could take jump packs (much like the Honour Guard of the Blood Angels).

The 4th edition Codex: Space Marines preserved the preference for Assault squads, though the expertise at deep striking was lost.

The Scouts thing came about later with the 5th edition Chapter Traits, effectively replacing the Assault squads. This may have been in an effort to distinguish the Chapter from the Blood Angels who, while lacking the expertise at deep striking at that time, in many other ways resembled the Raven Guard.

If anything, we've simply seen a reversion to the original.

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#13
KBA

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As KGatch113 said, the Raven Guards are actually the first founding drop pod experts, along with very good scouts (even those who have already earned their power armor). The rules have made them Blood Angels lite sometimes, but they actually consider Sanguinius' legion to be clumsy brutes. This is of course an average, I'm sure some Raven Guards think they're actually pretty cool and others think they're even worse.

 

As such, even because of the rules they're about to get, they don't favor assault and vanguard marines. Unless the lore changes in the next codex, of course.

 

Actually, there already is precedent that they do favor assault marines in our most recent codex on page 25:

 

In pursuit of their covert goals, the Raven Guard depend heavily on Scout forces able to act alone for extended periods of time, and rapid-reaction forces such as jump-pack equipped assault troops who can quickly capitalise on the foe's weaknesses

 

So the assault marine jump pack fluff has been there for years now, with their only special character captain equipped with one, along with the influencing popularity of the Horus Heresy books which have their primarch romping around in a special jump pack with wings. I wouldn't be surprised if this aspect of the Raven Guard is expanded upon in the new dex considering the new jump packy rules. smile.png

La la la la la updated fluff is the devil, and I shall fight it unto my dying breath la la  la la la la

 

whistlingW.gif

Not fighting it. Just pointing out you are wrong based on the evidence you presented.

 

Right. Argue semantics when the Dex name drops specific units. I guess White Scars only kind of like riding bikes. Can't wait for you to troll the 6th edition dex fluff that will obviously expand page 25's entry considering their chapter tactics grants a pretty huge jump pack buff smile.png


Edited by KBA, 02 September 2013 - 02:32 AM.


#14
Brother Grius

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Brothers, let us keep our sharp words as sharp thoughts, that we may point them toward defeating our foes.


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#15
Bannus

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Indeed, let's keep the personal jabs out of the conversation and the whole "I'm right, you're wrong" stance can also be shelved because everything you have been told is a lie.


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#16
Nusquam

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1) The only named CM I know of is Venerable Brother Kraai, who is now a Dread

2) Sometimes

3) In-game, no. Fluff wise, yes. They use thought reading and fear
powers as well as summoning flocks of psychic death ravens.

 


Interesting side-note: Theres a select
few RG every generation that have Corax's ability to shadow-walk... The Mor Deythan. The Shadowmasters...



4) Rock it.



5) Oh yes. Very much so. Especially with the new Winged Deliverance rule.

6) The lightning claw is mathematically the better offensive weapon and the same cost. Raven Guard like to strike first... and yes.

 


For lists I (highly)recommend:


9 Sternguard, 4 Combi-Melta, 5 Combi-Plas in a drop pod with a Techmarine with an Auspex. I enjoy killing Hive Tyrants, a few vehicles and the occasional Land Raider AND it's contents on turn 1. The Tech with Auspex helps with those pesky cover-saves and his servo-harm is surprisingly good in CC. Plus he can tank AP3 things.

 

5 Vanguard vets, 3 with Lightningclaws/Storm Shield, 2 with Power-axe(Or thunderhammers)/Storm Shields with jump packs and a Jump Pack Chaplain with the Shadow in the Sky(Teeth of Terra) inside a Stormraven escorted by a Stormtalon. So much offensive power and the
VV's/Chaplain will devastate most units, especially after they've been softened up by the rest of your army and can be where you want them fast. Also Winged Deliverance.

 

Thunderfire Cannons behind an Aegis Defense line with Comms Relay. They get scout(for adjusting) and stealth T1, hide behind the relay for a 2+ cover-save. And barrage is amazing.

 

Command Squad with Apothecary, Techmarine/Auspex and 5 Combi-Whatevers in a Razorback (I recommend the TL Assault Cannon) outflanking. They can eat tanks or flank units, plus a TL-Assault Cannon does wonders against infantry and the rear armour of vehicles...

 

Sniper scouts. Yes.

 

Speaking of Techmarines and scouts. They bolster defenses which can give yours scouts 2+ saves all day and 2+ saves for your Power Armour on T1.

 

Also the Comms Relay is amazing.

 

Also also I used all the above today(My MeltaStern ate a Land Raider, for first blood and my PlasStern/Tech proceeded to gun down it's contents) and it was so fluffy and dare I say it...

 

Good.


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#17
Brother Captain Kezef

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At the end of the day the RG are a codex chapter which means the core of their strike force is the battle company, thats 6 tac, 2 assault and 2 dev squads.

 

It's been noted in the fluff that the battle companies operate for extended periods independently, which suggests they use the reserve companies to 'top up' and reinforce their main battle companies.

 

From the new codex: "The Raven Guard strive to follow principles of the Codex Astartes", "They also make greater use of rapid reaction forces, paticulary assault squads and land speeders, to strike wherever the enemy is weakest."

 

Basicly the tac squads do the hard work, like with any other codex chapter while assault squads are used to nail the enemy just at the right moment. It's pretty clear that RG don't favour assault troops in the same way the Blood Angels or Night Lords do, but they do have their own use and favour them for a paticular role.


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#18
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"The Raven Guard strive to follow principles of the Codex Astartes"

 

They should have worded that better, makes them sound like Ultramarines in their zealousy.


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#19
Brother Captain Kezef

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"The Raven Guard strive to follow principles of the Codex Astartes"

 

They should have worded that better, makes them sound like Ultramarines in their zealousy.

 

Sorry my bad, it's a bit out of context and I used that line for my example it follows with "though their limited numbers and preference for covert shadow-warfare often dictate the deployment of their forces"


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#20
Nusquam

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"The Raven Guard strive to follow principles of the Codex Astartes"

 

They should have worded that better, makes them sound like Ultramarines in their zealousy.

 

Sorry my bad, it's a bit out of context and I used that line for my example it follows with "though their limited numbers and preference for covert shadow-warfare often dictate the deployment of their forces"

 

Not your fault, ha. I was referring to the people who actually wrote that in the codex. The next line does help but, the "strive" sentence should have been worded differently IMHO.


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#21
Brother Captain Kezef

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"The Raven Guard strive to follow principles of the Codex Astartes"

 

They should have worded that better, makes them sound like Ultramarines in their zealousy.

 

Sorry my bad, it's a bit out of context and I used that line for my example it follows with "though their limited numbers and preference for covert shadow-warfare often dictate the deployment of their forces"

 

Not your fault, ha. I was referring to the people who actually wrote that in the codex. The next line does help but, the "strive" sentence should have been worded differently IMHO.

 

I'm inclined to agree, one feeling from the new codex is that BA, DA and Wolves are non-codex, everyone else toes the Codex Astartes line, even chapters known for their divergence like Iron hands are being roped into the codex.


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#22
Ultramarini

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It's weird that they don't name him when it's obvious his name is well known in the fluff universe. Shrike's entry in the new book talks about how commanders beg the RG CM in person to assign them Shrike to bring them victory.


Agitatis Ultramarini

Dominitis Ultramarini

Non praestatis Ultramarini

Nobilitis Ultramarini

 

Humanity has always looked skyward for its true path.

We stood at the edge of destruction, and would have fallen,
If not for the might of the God-Emperor, and his Angels of Death.
Forged in blood.
Tempered in battle.
We are the living weapons of humanity.
The Space Marines.

#23
Nusquam

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It's weird that they don't name him when it's obvious his name is well known in the fluff universe. Shrike's entry in the new book talks about how commanders beg the RG CM in person to assign them Shrike to bring them victory.

 

You don't need to know a persons name so long as you know their title and place of work to send them a message...

 

Also purposely nameless characters allow players to fluff their own stuff


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#24
KBA

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"The Raven Guard strive to follow principles of the Codex Astartes"

 

They should have worded that better, makes them sound like Ultramarines in their zealousy.

 

Sorry my bad, it's a bit out of context and I used that line for my example it follows with "though their limited numbers and preference for covert shadow-warfare often dictate the deployment of their forces"

 

Not your fault, ha. I was referring to the people who actually wrote that in the codex. The next line does help but, the "strive" sentence should have been worded differently IMHO.

 

I'm inclined to agree, one feeling from the new codex is that BA, DA and Wolves are non-codex, everyone else toes the Codex Astartes line, even chapters known for their divergence like Iron hands are being roped into the codex.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict in the next edition that the RG, IF, IH, Scars, Sallies, UM and BT get their own codices. BT aside, 5th gave special unique rules to chapters via special characters. 6th took this further and gave each founding chapter and their successors fleshed out chapter tactics. If the special units from Forge World's Massacre prove to be strong sellers coupled with successful supplement codices to be released in the future, I could see GW adding a new special units plastic box for each first founding and give them their own codex.



#25
Nusquam

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If the special units from Forge World's Massacre prove to be strong sellers coupled with successful supplement codices to be released in the future, I could see GW adding a new special units plastic box for each first founding and give them their own codex.

 

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