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Tigurius and Grav Cannon Centurions


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14 replies to this topic

#1
L30n1d4s

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I think this may be one of the top-flight builds of the new codex.... Tigurius and 6 Gravcannon Centurions.

Tigurius takes Divination and goes for 4++ save and Prescience (and what ever else he gets). Given his re-rolls, he should be almost guaranteed to get these powers off each turn.

That makes for a 15 wound, T5, 2+/4++ unit with 30 TLed BS4 Grav Cannon shots. Against anything with a 4+ save or better, this unit should be quite devastating. In terms of survivability, this would be a extremely durable unit, able to absorb lots of small arms fire and even high strength, low AP weaponry.

The enemy cannot simply ignore this unit, as they have such significant damage output against many units, including heavy infantry an vehicles. Given that Tigurius is very reasonably priced and has many other solid attributes for your army, I think this could be quite a reasonable combo.

Thoughts?
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#2
Captain Idaho

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Removing cover saves could be good too.

My beef with the Centurion combination though is they are EXPENSIVE! 80pts a model for grav cannon and amp, extra 10pts for Sergeant model, a squad of 6 is looking at 490pts.

#3
Ishagu

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I think Tigarius and Centurians will be an awesome combo.

I won't take any more than 3 due to their cost - and I will probably deliver them in a Stormraven right in to the enemy's face...
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#4
Captain Idaho

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But that's soooo much more expensive!

I'm thinking of sticking to my Typhoons you know. 150pts for a pair of Land Speeders is cost effective fire support.

#5
irwit

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I think 6 is overkill.  3 still gives you 15 shot rerolling to hit AND to wound and comes in at 240 points + tigerius.  You can pretty much take out anything in range once a turn.   They'll make mince meat of riptides.  Can they not go in a pod?


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#6
Captain Idaho

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So far we've heard nothing to suggest so. If they could go in a Drop Pod it would be mandatory for a unit with Grav cannons I believe.

 

I so want to have a unit, but they are soooo expensive!



#7
Ishagu

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Why can't they???
Their rules list them as being very bulky - meaning each one takes up 3 places.

You should be able to fit 3 in one pod.
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#8
irwit

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3 plus a certain PA librarian :) 


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#9
Seahawk

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Skip Tigurius. He's killable, expensive (compared to the alternative), and you might not even get the power (that you also have to cast).

 

75 points buys an unkillable Skyshield landing platform and can give many more models a 4+ invulnerable save. If you're not moving your unit anyway then it's far superior.


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#10
irwit

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But you are moving. 24inch range on your guns plus youve paid for relentless so may as well use it :)

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#11
Seahawk

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You're only moving if you deployed poorly. ;)


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#12
The Emperor's Champion

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Skyshield is really a long-ranged Devastator answer.
I can't say Grav-Centurions make much sense parked on a roof.


6 Centurions in a squad isn't overkill because they can split fire.
So essentially you can have 2 3-man Centurion squads benefiting from Tigurius' 4++ and Twin-Linking powers and just mowing down enemies around them.

The problem is that this one unit would be like half your army.
With Missile Launchers, it'd be a 705pt deathstar.



But here's the thing, Captain Idaho is completely right. You can basically take 9 Land Speeder Typhoons for those points.... And there's basically nothing more awesome in the whole Codex than 9 Typhoons flinging out 18 Missiles and 27 Heavy Bolter shots per turn.

6 Centurions would be a bit better at killing VERY SPECIFIC units, but they'd have to do it from 1/4 of the range, and with nowhere near the mobility.
Krak Missiles are better for killing everything that doesn't have a 2+ Armor Save., and even then, most things that have a 2+ Armor Save (e.g. Terminators) can be drowned in the weight of fire from 27 Heavy Bolter shots.
The Krak Missiles are also only slightly worse against Land Raiders.....except that, again, they have waaaay more range than Grav-Cannons.



Basically, I still think the Grav-Cannon Centurions are a complete waste. You can accomplish their purposes for FAR less points more effectively with other units, and often with better mobility and range.
I mean, on a basic level, compare the Grav-Cannon and Multi-Melta.
Why would you take a Grav-Cannon over a Multi-Melta to kill a Land Raider?
At 12" a Grav-Cannon has a decent chance of knocking off a couple Hull Points and immobilizing a Land Raider.
At 12" a Multi-Melta is basically guaranteed a Penetrating Hit with a decent chance of destroying a Land Raider.

You can take 1x 80pt Grav-Centurion or 3x 24pt(ish) Multi-Melta Devastators...
You can take 6x Grav-Centurions or 8x Multi-Melta Land Speeders or 9x Multi-Melta Attack Bikes...

If the goal is to kill Land Raiders, why would you ever take 480pts worth of Grav-Centurions???
 

 

 


While I can't find a reason for the Grav-Centurions, I think the Heavy Bolter Centurions and Lascannon Centurions are probably completely worth it, and in almost every way slightly better than similarly equipped Devastators.

Assault Centurions are probably the BEST Land Raider-killing Centurion squad.
A 3-man squad of Twin-Linked Meltaguns and 6x S9 AP2 Armourbane melee attacks on the charge?
That'll wreck anything.

In the end, my bigger problem is that 6 Centurions is like $156...


Edited by The Emperor's Champion, 31 August 2013 - 06:31 PM.

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#13
Captain Idaho

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See I'd embrace Centurions if their grav cannons had a range of 36" or they had access to Drop Pods. 24" range is okay but on the long set up against Tau or Imperial Guard you're just not going to get close enough in numbers with only 3 in a squad it becomes a case of forking out more points we can ill afford in Space Marines games.

I'm thinking they might have a more effective place if you just have 3 with missile launchers and lascannons. Expensive sure but you can hit 2 units a turn, one with 2 lascannons and 2 missiles and the other with a single of each. The unit is tough but it just feels far too expensive at 300pts. I suppose it's around 100pts per model with 2 heavy weapons.

Now I want is to be proven wrong and find grav weapons in my army!

#14
L30n1d4s

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Well..... there is another option for the Grav Cannon tactic:

-6 Centurions with Grav-cannons
-Tigerius with Telekinesis
-Allied DA Librarian with PFG and Prescience

The key to this is Tigerius getting Gates of Infinity.... given his PML(3) with re-rolls to select, he should have a very good chance of achieving this.

Each turn Tigurius uses GoI to bounce the squad 24" around the board (use Homing Beacons on Scout Bikers or Drop Pods or Storm Ravens to make sure no scatter/no chance of losing squad members to the Warp). DA Libby gives re-rolls to hit and everyone a 4++.

In sum, you have a majority T5 unit with 17 wounds, majority 2+/4++ save that can move 24", then shoot another 24".

You are putting out 30 shots, all BS4 Twin-Linked, and the Grav Amps means that re-roll to wound and armor penetration rolls. If the enemy gets too close, "bounce" away with GoI. If the enemy is out of range, "bounce" within 24" shooting distance. Since GoI and Prescience are both blessings, no chance for enemy Deny the Witch. Also, Tigurius has a almost 100% chance of passing his Psychic Tests, due to Ld10 and re-rolls. Aside from GoI, Thunderclap is useful against hordes, Objuras Mechanicus is great to nerf enemy elite units, and Vortex of Doom can add some more firepower to the squad.

Additionally, the whole squad is Fearless, can Split Fire, and has 18 (at 24") or 36 (at 12") TLed Bolter Shots as a back-up against hordes with low armor saves. Against Vehicles, with 30 TLed shots, usually 26-27 will hit. Of these, with re-rolls, about 7-9 will be 6's, meaning any vehicle from a Vyper to Spartan Assault Tank will get glanced to death in a single round of shooting, on average.

Against MEQs/3+ save MCs, 30 shots yields 26-27 hits and 23-24 unsaved wounds (remember, re-rolls to wound)

Against TEQs/2+ save MCs, 30 shots yields 26-27 hits and 25-26 unsaved wounds.

Against GEQs, 30 shots yields 26-27 hits and 12-14 unsaved wounds

Against Flyers, 30 shots yields 9-10 hits and an average of 5 HPs lost (1st successful armor penetration roll causes -1 HP and Immobilized... 2nd Successful roll causes a second -1 HP and, since already Immobilized, a third -1 HP, for a total of -3 HP.... third successful roll causes a fourth -1 HP and, due to immobilized again, a fifth -1 HP, for total of -5 HP).
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#15
Seahawk

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6 Centurions in a squad isn't overkill because they can split fire.

 

So essentially you can have 2 3-man Centurion squads benefiting from Tigurius' 4++ and Twin-Linking powers and just mowing down enemies around them.

 

 

Impossible. Only one model can shoot a different target, so you have a unit of 1 and a unit of 5.


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