godking Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 What did Ferrus Manus bring to the Great Crusade which could not have been brought by any of his brothers ? I have read the Horus heresy series with the exception of Vulcan lives and i dont see what Ferrus brought to the great Crusade. He is not close to being one of the more intelligent Primarchs on the contrary. He is not the best fighter. Other primarchs as a good or better with technology as he is. Other Primarchs can be counted upon to hold the line just as much as he does. Ferrus to me is the most replacible and redundant of primarchs . Everything he did one of his brothers could have doen just as well or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 http://archive.heinessen.com/boards/r9k/img/0083/76/1377264860120.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 A red shirt and the ability to negotiate low doors without crouching. Seriously, Guilliman certainly rated him very highly, considering his Legion one of the four he could absolutely rely on to win any war (alongside Dorn, Russ and Sanguinius). He was a pure, focused embodiment of what the Primarchs and Legions were intended to achieve. I think you could draw parallels between any two Primarchs and say one was therefore redundant. What was the point of Curze or Angron? Their Legions fell into degeneracy even before the Heresy, and neither was a great craftsman or accomplished state-builder. Ultimately, they weren't intended to be specialists, they were all to be the architects of the Imperium. the intervention of the Ruinous Powers prevented the Emperor's plan unfolding the way he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I've gotta say that this whole thread could be summarised with a different question. Pertaining to the OP What did Ferrous Mannus bring to the GC for 'me'? Clearly nothing on a personal level to the OP. And that's your call. From my perspective, he was an advocate of the Imperial Truth. He refused to betray the Emperor even when (poorly) solicited by his closest brother. Was incensed so much by the betrayal of Horus et al that he blindly (yes I'm aware in this instance blindly means moronicaly) charged head first into the Istvaan trap to avenge his impugned reputation by association with his favoured bro Fulgrim. My question in rebuttal would be; Until his blind crazy fool moment, how was Ferrous Mannous NOT exactly what the Emperor expected from his Primarchs during the GC? Saa ....or something like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraCaptain Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 You could relying on him staying, weathering the fire, upon the level of stupidity and defying reason, and follow to goal no matter what and absolute loyal to the imperium. Compareable to Mortarion, but less screwed in the mind. Also kind of why he died, too stubborn to play it more tactical like Corax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 The first martyrdom in the Heresy? The revealing of how deep the treachery went? A message to the whole Imperium to stand with Horus or die, even blood was no protection? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 He made Dorn look good by crippling his legion more then he did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godking Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 A red shirt and the ability to negotiate low doors without crouching. Seriously, Guilliman certainly rated him very highly, considering his Legion one of the four he could absolutely rely on to win any war (alongside Dorn, Russ and Sanguinius). He was a pure, focused embodiment of what the Primarchs and Legions were intended to achieve. I think you could draw parallels between any two Primarchs and say one was therefore redundant. What was the point of Curze or Angron? Their Legions fell into degeneracy even before the Heresy, and neither was a great craftsman or accomplished state-builder. Ultimately, they weren't intended to be specialists, they were all to be the architects of the Imperium. the intervention of the Ruinous Powers prevented the Emperor's plan unfolding the way he wanted. I know that Guilliman rates him highly. I still dont see anything special about him. Curze and Angron despite being monsters do have their uses for special assigments where their legions are the best tool for the job. Dorn Vulkan Perturabo & Mortarion equal or surpass Manus in his specialities. Masterful fighter ? No Great strategist/Tactician ? No Great craftsman ? Yes but so where Perturabo and Vulkan Stubborn bastard who can be trusted to never give up Yes ? But so where Perturabo Dorn Mortarion and most other primarchs to a degree. The only thing Manus did as a Primarch during the Horus Heresy was get himself killed ( a purposeful exxageration) Ferrus Manus was medium talent at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Manus was a great emissary to the Adeptus Mechanicum and a representative of the Astartes as a whole for Mars. He had a close relationship with the Tech Priests. He was still a loyal brother, and it seems due to his relationship with the Mechanicum that a lot of times his Legion was the test bed for new technology. At least that's how I see it. Don't get me wrong, Perturabo had a close relationship with the Mechanicum too, but I would never look to him as a diplomat or representative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FashaTheDog Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Fulgrim needed someone's head for a trophy . What Manus is, is the best damned Forgeworld Primarch sculpt to date and he matches up to Fulgrim's diorama to make one awesome one. Also, not all Primarchs need to be the best at something. Having a few who are just part of the big dysfunctional family is good too (let's face it, the Emperor isn't going to win any father of the year awards). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Ferrus knew all of this and lamented on this in one of the short stories. On his homeworld he was the greatest warrior, but among the primarchs, that is all he is, a great warrior. Ferrus has always reminded me on Conan in that regard. Strength was what was valued on his homeworld, but amongst the stars, he's finding that he needs to step up his game and he isn't sure how and was never really given the chance to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Yes but when he crippled his legions tactical ability, admitably not on the scale of Angron, but still bad enough for his own sons to lament it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vile Siren Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I thought Ferrus was the strongest primarch physically? Don't remember where I read that but I thought I would throw that out there even if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Vulkan and Perturabo were just as good as Ferrous working with technology? So...how many Primarchs carry mastercrafted weapons those two built as their main killing tools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Who's eqipment was enough to save their skin on Isstvann? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Who's eqipment was enough to save their skin on Isstvann? Not Vulkan's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Vulkan is the strongest Primarch, strength wise that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 It wasn't enough to save their skin, but it did just fine in buying a lextra time to teach just a little more traitors about Medusan fury. What the IH were relying to on to save their skin were their cousins, and that cousinly flesh proved weak in the task indeed D_:. The IH signature, if you want, was resilience. Or rather, reliability. Like their mechanical bionics, you could rely on the Iron Hands to break before they bend (like mortarion's whelps bent on the Terminus Est). You could rely on Iron Hands to get the task done, one way or another. That was what Guilliman meant I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Ferrus is however, one of Guilliman's "Dauntless Few" IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Edit: I'm in the camp that Ferrus was the strongest, but after WoT's comment I think they made a recent change, in Vulkan lives perhaps? Memory fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 It comes up in Vulkan Lives I believe, it's also said he carried a hammer no other Primarch could lift in Promethean Sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kais Klip Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Yeah I'm remembering that as well now, but didn't Ferrus hold the title before Vulkan Lives or was it always Vulkan? Edit: oops, comprehension getting a bit wonky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Vulkan Lives suggests that Vulkan was the strongest Primarch, but he also held back the most. As far as everyone was concerned, he was at normal strength levels, whatever normal is for Primarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I thought Ferrus was the strongest primarch physically? Don't remember where I read that but I thought I would throw that out there even if I am wrong. Yeah I can't remember which it is, but in a HH book I think ferrus & vulkan are stated to be the 2 strongest Vulkan and Perturabo were just as good as Ferrous working with technology? So...how many Primarchs carry mastercrafted weapons those two built as their main killing tools? Yeah, this - Mannus even gives vulkan (the other "smith" primarch) a mastercrafted bolter - vulkan says its too awesome as a piece of craftmanship he doesn't use it. Hell, Fulgrim used Fireblade for the whole of the great crusade. Ferrus may not be a "specialist" to the same extent as some of the other Primarchs, but he has a NUMBER of traits that are allmost as good as those of such Primarchs. Smithing - he is as good, if not better than Vulkan / Perturabo when his necrodermis arms are taken into account - hell, he doesn't even need a forge. Strength - he was probably of similar strength to Vulkan, I mean when the Emperor arrived on Medusa, he wasn't satisfied by all the "I'm your genefather" stuff, and decided to fight him to determine his strength, during which they are supposed to have destroyed mountains Endurance - okay, he doesn't have the endurance of Mortarion, but this is a guy who killed a C'tan shard by DROWNING IT IN LAVA - also he is supposed to have a face covered in scars, and seeing as Primarchs are supposed to have crazy healing powers, god only knows what he must have fought to get those Loyalty - Ferrus is probably the most loyal of the Primarchs, firstly to the Emp, but also to Fulgrim and probably at least some other Primarchs (in Fulgrim, he positions his Flagship in between Fulgrim's stormbird and a number of Xenos capitol ships to save his brother's skin), which may result in some of his directness - you tell Ferrus to do something and he gets it done, no messing around - the IHs are completely unyielding, and he won't accept any weakness on their part, despite them being his sons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Furor Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I thought I read somewhere that Vulkan wouldn't use the weapon Ferrus gave him because it felt souless or something, since it was made with Ferrus's silver hands rather than hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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