Jump to content

Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Imperial Viziers/Adjudicators

UM Successors Black Consuls Loyalist Ad.Mech Malthe

This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
16 replies to this topic

#1
Malthe

Malthe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 284 posts

Hi everybody and thanks for stopping by. 

Inspired by KHK and his Astral Reavers topic (which I encourage everyone to check out!) I'll reserve this post for finished content.
As such I'll be using the second post as a kind of progress log, while slowly adding finshed and hopefully critiqued content to this post.

Hopefully this will keep things a little more organized and reader friendly.

Once again, thank you for stopping by and please do leave a comment; I'd really appreciate it!

/Malthe


QUOTE (thade)

"The galaxy is a big place; you have room to work."

IA: Imperial Viziers - A Chapter in Twain - new draft october 2013!

IA: The Emperor's Immortals - Children of the Sun
(IA: Foe Eaters - His Red Right Hand - unfinished and on hold)


#2
Malthe

Malthe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 284 posts

IMPERIAL VIZIERS: A Chapter in Twain

 

For a while now I've wanted to create a UM successor chapter. I like the Ultramarines a lot, namely the concepts of legacy and tradition.
Both of these concepts are interesting to deal with in an Index Astartes and they lend themselves very well to a father-and-son/Sins-of-the-father style IA. That's already plenty of dramatic potential without adding any other themes at all.

I've also wanted to make an arabic inspired chapter for a very long time. My Foe Eaters, which never really got off to a good start, where an example of this. I figured that since both tradition and legacy are central elements to arab/islamic culture it would make sense to mix these two ideas smile.png

 

So, the following is what I have uptill now. It's enough that I think getting som C&C would be very valuable, so I'm really hoping for some feedback. 

 

 

ALTERNATIVE NAME: 'Adjudicators' = representatives = settling differences = keeping the peace.

I'm not sure if Viziers is a little too arabic... Adjudicators sound more Ultramarine-ish, and I quite like that name aswell.   

Both options mean almost the same thing, but they sound very different and I'm not sure which set of connotations I like the most.


BUZZWORDS: Legacy, heritage, duty, tradition

Old =//= New

Civilization =//= Wilderness

Father =//= Sons

Vengeance =//= Perseverance


What is (our) duty?

How do we live up to our legacy?

How do we maintain tradition in the face of ever-changing challenges?


 

GENERAL NOTES:

Poems/saying are important elements of how the Viziers create and maintain their identity. - Sidebars and quotes should drill this point home.

Cleanliness is an important aspect of their visual identity. - I'll post a few colour schemes, which I'd like feed back on smile.png

Reverence and humility are key values for the Viziers. - This is central to my theme.

(Moral-)Superiority to the enemy is taken for granted. - The Viziers don't really care about their enemies.

 

CHARACTERS:

Chapter Master Rissaux (has isolated himself in an attempt to divine the right course of action).

Murder-Captain Riyaz of the 7th (most vocal proponent of seeking vengeance).

1st Company Captain al-Fayard (preaches caution and duty to preserver).

 


TIMELINE:


500.M40

The Viziers are founded from the Black Consuls, as part of the 25th Founding.

700.M40

The Viziers are gifted a second Battle Barge 'Red Splendor' for extraordinary service in defense of the Ad.Mech.

950.M40

The Viziers establish a chapter keep in the Marble City of Gambit IV. The keep serves as staging-ground for the pacification of the al-Khawali sub-sector.

240.M41

Overseen by Ad.Mech Magii the construction of the Viziers' fortress-monastery is completed. Gambit IV becomes the sole recruiting planet of the Viziers.

350.M41

The Viziers are engaged in various actions throughout the sector. Most notable is the defense of al-Khawali Prime against Dark Eldar pirates and the repression of cult uprisings throughout the sub-sector.

455.M41

The Black Consuls are reported destroyed at the Siege of Goddeth hive.

520.M41

Strike force Reverence led by Company-captain [Someone] of the 4th and Chief Librarian [Someone-else] is sent to establish facts and search for survivors.

585.M41

Having secured their home territory, the Viziers become embroiled in a four centuries-long defensive crusade against Waaagh! Sköllwrekka.

640.M41

Chapter Master Vincentius is killed while acting as part of the rear guard during the evacuation of Griffin Hive. 1st Company-captain Rissaux is elected to succeed him.

730.M41

Strike force Reverence is reportedly destroyed by a Chaos Space Marine ambush while in pursuit of the Crucius Maledictus. Unwilling to abandon the war against Waaagh! Sköllwrekka the Viziers doesn't send any forces in response.

850.M41

After nearly three centuries of back-and-forth warfare the tide is finally turned, when the Greenskins are turned back at the defense of Job's Point. For the rest of the war the Imperial side is on the offensive.

995.M41
The Viziers and their allies are finally victorious as Warboss Sköllwrekka is killed by the hero of Job's Point; Murder-Captain Riyaz of the 7th Company.

999.M41

Reacting to news of the Thirteenth Black Crusade of Abaddon the Despoiler, the Chapter Council of the Viziers debates whether or not to join the defense of the Cadian Gate.

Proponents, counting the Murder-Captain, argue that this is an opportunity for avenging the Black Consuls, while opponents preach caution and maintain that the forces of the chapter are better spend elsewhere.

Plagued by doubt Chapter Master Rissaux retire to the deserts of Gambit IV, hoping to divine the will of the Emperor.
 


HOME WORLD = Gambit IV

Marble Cities (river people) (french)

Beduins = al-Awadii (arabic [algerian])

 

(Terra-forming: Desert planet --> agri-world?)

 

Fortress Monastery = The Palace of... Wells maybe?

 

Basically a desert planet dominated by a greco-roman-like culture with renaissance technology (the River People; who I have decided to give french names...) who live in great irrigated (and walled off) marble cities. The River People are named such because they control all the fertile river valleys, while leaving the planetwide deserts to the beduin-like al-Awadii tribes.
I've been thinking about having some terra-forming take place on the planet, with help from the Ad.Mech, to really emphasize the 'old vs. new' nad tradition vs. progress'-themes, but I'm unsure of why the Viziers would want this. Maybe just to make life easier for their subjects..?

 

COMBAT DOCTRINE

Codex --> Flexible.

Control --> Deception.

Lure them in, then strike suddenly and violently = Observe, observe, observe, then act in an instant. - I'm thinking some Saladin-isque quotes would be nice in this section.

Slight preference for Drop Pods.

 

 

ORGANISATION

Strictly Codex.

Chapter Council advices CM --> debates, greco-roman forum/senate style.

Fairly close to Ad.Mech. - I really like the Ad.Mech adding to the tradition-theme. Also the Ad.Mech are very old, while the Viziers are very young. I think it's nice smile.png


 

BELIEFS

Honour

Tradition

Family!

Emperor as exemplar and liege lord.

The Imperium = the people of the Imperium. - The Viziers are a quite sympathetic bunch, if not quite as much as the Salamanders.


Practice = Poetry/philosophy - veneration of the past as opposed to religious beliefs.

 


GENE-SEED

Immaculate.

 


BATTLE CRY

"Duty, Honour, Legacy!" - Or some such nonsense...

 

RANDOM NOTES

Buddies with the Ad.Mech --> gifted the (twin?) Battle Barge(s) Martian Bliss/ Benediction of Mars/ Malediction of Mars/ Red Splendor/ Red Requiem/ King in Crimson / Crimson Curse.

I wanna add a few sinister elements to this relationship. How much power over the Viziers does the Ad.Mech really have? Quite a lot I think. Should be interesting...


Finally a couple of scheme I would really like some feedback on. I'm not sold on either, so fire away!

sm.php?b62c=@iaj2F_hsbXm.hHzJl____@@@i8y
 

sm.php?b62c=@iaj2F_iagtx.hsbXm@@@@...i5X


Edited by Malthe, 13 October 2013 - 09:15 PM.

QUOTE (thade)

"The galaxy is a big place; you have room to work."

IA: Imperial Viziers - A Chapter in Twain - new draft october 2013!

IA: The Emperor's Immortals - Children of the Sun
(IA: Foe Eaters - His Red Right Hand - unfinished and on hold)


#3
Hrvat

Hrvat

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 819 posts

This has potential to be an interesting chapter. I'll keep an eye on it.

 

As for the colour scheme, the second one is just odd and goes against colour theory of complementary colours while the first one could be nice depending what the actual colours look once painted.

 

 

Cheers



#4
Malthe

Malthe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 284 posts

Hi Hrvat, thanks for commenting :)

I'm glad I've at least caught your interest. Is the second colour scheme really that bad? I don't think the colours are clashing, and I like that it's a little subdued.
I'll try to sort through my notes in the post above, and present them in a little more reader-friendly format. Hopefully that'll make it easier to comment on.

Cheers!


QUOTE (thade)

"The galaxy is a big place; you have room to work."

IA: Imperial Viziers - A Chapter in Twain - new draft october 2013!

IA: The Emperor's Immortals - Children of the Sun
(IA: Foe Eaters - His Red Right Hand - unfinished and on hold)


#5
Wolvar

Wolvar

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 12 posts

Chapter sounds great; personally I prefer the second colour scheme but ultimately it's your army and whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck with it.



#6
Conn Eremon

Conn Eremon

    ++ SCRIBA VILLOSUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 7,154 posts
If you remove the blue on the second, maybe replace it with a warmer color, it'd look better in my opinion.

That said, the first one has a very striking appearance I think is pretty cool. Definitely gets my vote.

Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes


Guilliman Heresy | Corax Coup | Conn's DIY Projects | Liber Surgery


B&C's play-by-post subforum is now live!


#7
Malthe

Malthe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 284 posts

Thanks for chiming in guys :)

I guess I could replace the blue with a warmer colour. Or with purple, which should appease Hvrat's sense of colour-theory.
Though that, to my eyes, makes it awfully Dornish-looking...

How about this one with red/orange?



I also like the first scheme, but I'm still very much undecided. If someone could dial up the Liber Heraldy Department for me that would be great :P

Any comments outside the colour scheme? I would be nice to know if anything seems odd or out of place :) 


QUOTE (thade)

"The galaxy is a big place; you have room to work."

IA: Imperial Viziers - A Chapter in Twain - new draft october 2013!

IA: The Emperor's Immortals - Children of the Sun
(IA: Foe Eaters - His Red Right Hand - unfinished and on hold)


#8
Conn Eremon

Conn Eremon

    ++ SCRIBA VILLOSUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 7,154 posts

Personally, I've never liked the halved/quartered schemes. Not saying anything against it, just that it really doesn't rock my boat. When it comes to breaking up the primary colors, I always prefer this style:

 

sm.php?bpe=ffc637&bpj=423b35&bp=ffc637&b

 

As for comments on other things, nope. Because lazy.


Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes


Guilliman Heresy | Corax Coup | Conn's DIY Projects | Liber Surgery


B&C's play-by-post subforum is now live!


#9
JeffTibbetts

JeffTibbetts

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,532 posts

I vastly prefer the first one, and honestly it would be a LOT easier to paint... That's important. 


gallery_74115_9011_2349.pngtn_gallery_74115_9313_33227.pngtn_gallery_74115_9011_9491.pngtn_gallery_74115_9011_110464.png gallery_74115_9011_12025.pngtn_gallery_74115_9011_3499.png

 

++ victorus aut mortis ++

Follow me on Twitter @linguartisan for pics and banter.

 


#10
Malthe

Malthe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 284 posts

Thanks for weighing in to the both of you :)
Unless somebody comes up with a great way to do the split scheme I think I will go with the first scheme. It is a lot easier to paint and I think it's quite good.

Does anybody have any piece of advice regarding the name of the chapter? I have two options:

 

'Imperial Viziers'

A vizier is "high official in some Muslim countriesesp. in Turkey under Ottoman rule."

This name puts a heavy emphasize on the arab/islamic inspiration that I draw upon, and also it's a fairly grand name, which connotes palaces and far easten wonders.

Though it may be a bit too much..?

'Adjudicators'
An adjudicator is one who adjudicate... That is to "make a formal judgment or decision about a problem or disputed matter"
This on the other hand is a lot more greco-roman, i.e. Ultramarine'ish. An adjudicator settles disputes; it's matter-of-factly and statesman-like which I think is quite fitting :)

Any suggestions?


QUOTE (thade)

"The galaxy is a big place; you have room to work."

IA: Imperial Viziers - A Chapter in Twain - new draft october 2013!

IA: The Emperor's Immortals - Children of the Sun
(IA: Foe Eaters - His Red Right Hand - unfinished and on hold)


#11
Conn Eremon

Conn Eremon

    ++ SCRIBA VILLOSUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 7,154 posts
Adjudicators feels more natural, viziers might work better as nicknames/rank designations.

Bellum Omnium Contra Omnes


Guilliman Heresy | Corax Coup | Conn's DIY Projects | Liber Surgery


B&C's play-by-post subforum is now live!


#12
Hrvat

Hrvat

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 819 posts

I agree with Cormac though shortening the name to just Judicators might not be a bad thing for the ease of pronounciation.



#13
JeffTibbetts

JeffTibbetts

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 3,532 posts
I'm with Cormac as well. Save Viziers as a title for chaplains or librarians.

gallery_74115_9011_2349.pngtn_gallery_74115_9313_33227.pngtn_gallery_74115_9011_9491.pngtn_gallery_74115_9011_110464.png gallery_74115_9011_12025.pngtn_gallery_74115_9011_3499.png

 

++ victorus aut mortis ++

Follow me on Twitter @linguartisan for pics and banter.

 


#14
Malthe

Malthe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 284 posts

Right, Adjudicators it is then!


Since I have now settled on a name an colour scheme I suppose I better get on with filling out some sections of my outline :)
I think I'll be conservative and start with the Origins and Later History sections.

Before I do so, I would greatly apreciate it if one of you (or some, all or everyone) would take the time to look through my timeline and point out any glaring mistaskes I might have made? It would be nice not having to start off on a (deeply) flawed basis :P


QUOTE (thade)

"The galaxy is a big place; you have room to work."

IA: Imperial Viziers - A Chapter in Twain - new draft october 2013!

IA: The Emperor's Immortals - Children of the Sun
(IA: Foe Eaters - His Red Right Hand - unfinished and on hold)


#15
Olis

Olis

    ++ REDEMPTIO CALIDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 15,293 posts

Here's my take on your timeline:

 

950.M40

The Viziers establish a chapter keep in the Marble City of Gambit IV. The keep serves as staging-ground for the pacification of the al-Khawali sub-sector.

240.M41

Overseen by Ad.Mech Magii the construction of the Viziers' fortress-monastery is completed. Gambit IV becomes the sole recruiting planet of the Viziers.

 

I think the second entry needs to be clarified/corrected (or perhaps the first does). Is the Fortress-Monastery an 'upgrade' to the aforementioned Chapter Keep, or is it an entirely new structure? Or were you simply referring to the same structure by different names?

 

455.M41

The Black Consuls are reported destroyed at the Siege of Goddeth hive.

520.M41

Strike force Reverence led by Company-captain [Someone] of the 4th and Chief Librarian [Someone-else] is sent to establish facts and search for survivors.

 

65 years is quite a wait on a rescue mission - I'd suggest popping in hints as to why it took so long if you wish to retain the time-gap. A good old 'the warp ate my message' would do fine. ;)

 

585.M41

Having secured their home territory, the Viziers become embroiled in a four centuries-long defensive crusade against Waaagh! Sköllwrekka.

 

Erm... Crusades aren't defensive by definition. I suggest dropping the word altogether. 

 

(And four centuries long might be a little excessive, imho. Four decades would be more suitable, I would think.)

 

730.M41

Strike force Reverence is reportedly destroyed by a Chaos Space Marine ambush while in pursuit of the Crucius Maledictus. Unwilling to abandon the war against Waaagh! Sköllwrekka the Viziers don't send any forces in response.

 

FTFY

 

Also, I was under the impression strike forces were not permanent in nature. Therefore this Strike Force, being centuries removed from the last one, should have a different name. huh.png

 

 

 

Now barring the inconsistencies, the timeline seems mostly alright but it seems to lack punch. The events are few and far between and there needs to be more, for lack of a better word, drama (imho). 


gallery_60566_6038_10057.jpg
gallery_60566_6038_15153.png

Cowriter of the Guilliman Heresy Project. First Thread. Second Thread.

B&C forum rules: Linky. Octavulg's IA guide: Linky. DIY Article Templates: Linky.

He that never changes his opinions, never corrects his mistakes, will never be wiser on the morrow than he is today. - Tryon Edwards

#16
Malthe

Malthe

    +FRATER DOMUS+

  • + FRATER DOMUS +
  • 284 posts

Thank you so much for your feedback, Olis! I've been crazy busy this week, so I havn't had the time to look it through before just now.

Hopefully next week will be a little better.

On a general note, I'm counting on things to take a very long time in the 40K universe. I think it makes sense for wars to last generations and for rescue missions to be lunched a hundred years too late. Since most 40K novels (probably for narrative reasons) describe quite short wars - even the HH was apparently pretty brief - this seems somewhat inconsistent. I'm not sure what to do about this.

I bascially have to find a way to deal with the problem of making the Adjudicators' conflict current.
The Black Consuls die in 455.M41, but I want that event to be the focal point of the Adjudicators' doubt about what to do.

Their main dramatic conflict is (like Hamlet's) that they don't know what to do. Should they avenge their progenitor and spend vast ressources upon doing so, or should they get on with their life and stay put in the al-Khawali sub-sector now that things are finally going pretty good?

That's the question that has the chapter cleaved in twain, but how do I make that question relevant 555 years after the death of the Black Consuls?
Suggestions would be appreciated :P 


QUOTE (thade)

"The galaxy is a big place; you have room to work."

IA: Imperial Viziers - A Chapter in Twain - new draft october 2013!

IA: The Emperor's Immortals - Children of the Sun
(IA: Foe Eaters - His Red Right Hand - unfinished and on hold)


#17
Olis

Olis

    ++ REDEMPTIO CALIDUS ++

  • ++ MODERATI ++
  • 15,293 posts

Thank you so much for your feedback, Olis! I've been crazy busy this week, so I havn't had the time to look it through before just now.

Hopefully next week will be a little better.

 

Not a problem, brother. 

 

On a general note, I'm counting on things to take a very long time in the 40K universe. I think it makes sense for wars to last generations and for rescue missions to be lunched a hundred years too late. Since most 40K novels (probably for narrative reasons) describe quite short wars - even the HH was apparently pretty brief - this seems somewhat inconsistent. I'm not sure what to do about this.

 

Simple - add in the reason why things took so long. Imperial bureaucracy is notoriously slow and astropathic messages are far from 100% reliable. Maybe the chapter was doing other things, like fighting for their survival, before they could send anything more meaningful than a token force to investigate.

 

I bascially have to find a way to deal with the problem of making the Adjudicators' conflict current.
The Black Consuls die in 455.M41, but I want that event to be the focal point of the Adjudicators' doubt about what to do.

Their main dramatic conflict is (like Hamlet's) that they don't know what to do. Should they avenge their progenitor and spend vast ressources upon doing so, or should they get on with their life and stay put in the al-Khawali sub-sector now that things are finally going pretty good?

That's the question that has the chapter cleaved in twain, but how do I make that question relevant 555 years after the death of the Black Consuls?
Suggestions would be appreciated tongue.png

 

If I were you, I'd pursue the 'cleaved in twain' as less 'cleaved' and more 'twain'. Nobody is going to have a fight about it but keep them of two minds about it. They must do their Imperial duty but at the same time a continuous 'weather eye' on the situation might be good. 

 

Now as for relevance after half a millennium? Marines live quite a while, so I'd imagine that there'd be maybe one or two who still physically remember the day when they heard that their primogenitor disappeared. Perhaps there might even be some story-time with Dreadnought Falcus for new recruits, to keep the search alive. Perhaps they (the chapter) found out that there are still a handful of Black Consuls in Jericho Reach. This would certainly fan the flames of any debate, regardless of actual contact with the Consuls.


gallery_60566_6038_10057.jpg
gallery_60566_6038_15153.png

Cowriter of the Guilliman Heresy Project. First Thread. Second Thread.

B&C forum rules: Linky. Octavulg's IA guide: Linky. DIY Article Templates: Linky.

He that never changes his opinions, never corrects his mistakes, will never be wiser on the morrow than he is today. - Tryon Edwards