Grey Mage Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I've seen Landraiders exploded by a single las cannon shot on turn 1. I have also tried to take a Riptide down before... a single Riptide. I flew TWO Stormravens to it, unloaded 2x Twin Linked Meltas, 2x Twin Linked Las Cannons and 6x Stormstrike missiles. I killed it's drones, and took off 3 wounds. It still had 2 left. It had FNP and he overcharged for the Invul boost the prior turn. I don't think some people realise just how tough it is to kill these things, never mind kill 5 of them. They are so cheap too.... That turn I committed 400 points to kill something worth little over 200... No, thats about right, it should take about twice a units points value with decent rolls to take it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axagoras Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 well thats 400 points that didnt even kill it, a riptide with 2 wounds is still at 40% health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 well thats 400 points that didnt even kill it, a riptide with 2 wounds is still at 40% health That's also a pair of aircraft that are honestly better at hunting vehicles rather than monstrous creatures sporting invulns and FNP. Now had one unloaded some hammernators then I would say that is a good counter to a riptide, but Stormravens are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 It's certainly not an exact science. 500pts of Gretchin won't worry my Land Raider in the slightest, for example. The variables in 40K are too numerous for it to be broken down like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Don't forget that simply assaulting them stops them from firing. It would probably take a Riptide 2 turns to munch through a 5 man combat squad and that's a lot less bodies than if you let them shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 A couple thoughts, as noted, Riptides can be vulnerable to loosing assaults against things that can sweeping advance them. Killing their drones can cause the test as can multi-assaulting and killing say some firewarrirors. If you do this and can use something, say psychic powers, to lower leadership or initiative, it will have a better chance of working. The trick is to get the assault off when they have markerlights and supporting overwatch. Also, if he's running an ethereal, you need it dead before you make him loose leadership. Something a friend and I were kicking around the other day. (I wouldn't run this against most people, but against a person running 5 Riptides, I would.) Play Dark Angels. Take Azreal & Ezekiel. Ally Ultramarines. Take Tiggy. Take 6 Dev. Centurions. Make this all one big unit. Fill out the rest of your army however you like. You're looking to get PRESCIENCE, GATE, maybe endurance or whateverother powers suit your fancy. Az give them a ++ save. You now have Centurions who can bop around the board with Gate and who, I think can potentially take a Riptide a turn. this unit can also take a staggering amount of fire. We didn't game it out vs 5 Riptides, by we did calculate that a broadside unit with a ton of missiles actually hurt it more than a single Riptide. This unit can also defend itself in most assault and/or assault because of the special characters. It takes a lot of your points, but as the man said above, what is the rest of your army doing? You can still have a nice spread of tacticals or maybe go Ravenwing. You could field a Whirlwind or two. Maybe some RBK. And while Riptide Ralph is doing his best to kill the Centurions, the rest of your army including the stuff he would normally be making his priority targets, gets to play too. I honestly have no idea if this would work against five of the buggers, but it was fun to think about vs a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Also since I'm sure most people aren't aware of this the Earth Caste pilot array (that is almost always run with the farsight riptide duo) makes them WS 1. So when you only have a couple attacks and WS 1 you probably won't even kill one marine reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 This unit can also defend itself in most assault and/or assault because you're facing Tau. Fixed that for ya. Actually, that sounds like it'd be a fun deathstar, even if you weren't facing a mob of Riptides. I might give it a shot with just Tiggy and the Centurions someday(if I ever end up with 6 Centurions...). Anyway, sorry for this brief off-topic comment of mine...back to 'how to kill and/or ignore 5 Riptides to win the day'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I've been waxing theoretical and consider Telepathy a serious weapon against Tau. Puppet Master will enable us to force a unit to fire at a compatriot, which can be a Fusion blaster and his Ion weapon thingy, for 4 low AP weapons. Dominate and Hallucination both can prevent a Riptide from firing, whilst Terrify can threaten a Riptide to flee off the table. Even invisibility can help though Pathfinders will have to be eliminated first for it to really work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Why limit yourself to 4? Go for 8! Allies... Four C:SW Rune Priests with Jaws of the World Wolf...Then we need more pads to make this effective, since wolves don't combat squad. How many do you mean to deploy? 4 Rune Priests, 2X Eight-man Grey Hunter packs, 500-ish points of Allied Space Wolves should make the Riptide spam cry "cheese". With careful positioning, you should be able to get nearly all of them making I tests, with some making multiples. And you have enough bodies to absorb some Interceptor fire and play LO,S! games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Allies... You can dual FoC *and* take an allied detachment mate. It might be impossible to field 8 Rune Priests though. Can you make 8 Individual enough to satisfy the Codex restrictions? Not sure. :/ Edit: You can't take two allied detachments can you? That would limit you to a total of 2 Rune Priests in an allied SW detachment, wouldn't it? So the options are 2, 4 or 8. For Allied detachment, SW Primary and SW Dual FoC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 It might be impossible to field 8 Rune Priests though. Can you make 8 Individual enough to satisfy the Codex restrictions? Not sure. :/ Edit: You can't take two allied detachments can you? That would limit you to a total of 2 Rune Priests in an allied SW detachment, wouldn't it? You can take one allied detachment for every primary detachment. And I'm not a Wolf, but I would think you probably could make them individual enough...but it may require taking sub-par wargear such as Plasma Pistols and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 You can take one allied detachment for every primary detachment. Ah. So you could dual FoC and take two allied detahcments (which would have to be the same 'dex). Got it! 4 RP as allies is go! Edit: So technically, for those Codexes lucky enough to be able to ally to themselves (SM, Chaos and Tau!) you could take 4 detahcments from the same Codex... Dual FoC Tau, with two 'allied' Tau deatchments for a total of 8 possible Rip Tides (or Helldrakes, or Squads of Centurion). Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 But that advice is only good if someone wants to play larger games. Smaller games against such spamming will be harder put. Besides I don't do allies. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Just so I'm not missing anything, it is possible to take six Riptides, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 But that advice is only good if someone wants to play larger games. Smaller games against such spamming will be harder put. Well it has to be 2,000 points minimum. That should be enough to squeeze in 8 RipTides (although I've no idea about the wording of the Tau supplement, and how that would interact with multiple FoC or Multiple Allied detachments...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 Dual FOC Tau can make it 9, for one of them is actually a HQ in Farsight mini dex (6 main elite, 2 ally elite and 1 HQ), but if someone really want to play this I will just ask him outside, say have a drink together, and give him a punch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassWave Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 What's worse is when the forge world riptide is released, it will allow tau 6 ' tides under 2000 without allies because it will be a HS choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallodx Posted October 17, 2013 Author Share Posted October 17, 2013 What's worse is when the forge world riptide is released, it will allow tau 6 ' tides under 2000 without allies because it will be a HS choice. Seven, if main detachment is Farsight itself... I don't even dare to think about it EDIT: I'm not spreading hate but I say my opinion here...sorry it's off the topic. The Farsight mini dex is pretty good to me, well told the story and make your army fits the background......or not? Farsight is now a rebel to Eternals, fighting his own war against Chaos, and Tau may ally Farsight? A rebel? Iyanden can't even ally Eldar if my information is right! That is, I think the ally part ruined the book... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 What's worse is when the forge world riptide is released, it will allow tau 6 ' tides under 2000 without allies because it will be a HS choice. And if you Dual FoC and ally to yourself it would be 17! Obviosuly this would cost a lot of points, as the Heavy FW version is around double the cost of a normal RT. I don't think you could fit 17 Giant Mecha suits in even at 2,500 points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedes Nex Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I've been waxing theoretical and consider Telepathy a serious weapon against Tau. Puppet Master will enable us to force a unit to fire at a compatriot, which can be a Fusion blaster and his Ion weapon thingy, for 4 low AP weapons. Dominate and Hallucination both can prevent a Riptide from firing, whilst Terrify can threaten a Riptide to flee off the table. Even invisibility can help though Pathfinders will have to be eliminated first for it to really work. This is really good advice. I watched a battle report where Tyranids successfully puppet mastered a Stormraven twice and killed a bunch of stuff with it. And worst case scenario you still have Psychic Shriek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Dragons 3rd Company Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 A Heavy Riptide can also score in Big Guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 Given that 5 Riptides cost a minimum of 900 points, not counting the Mandatory 2 HQs and 3 Troops (need for a primary detachment and allied Farsight Enclave), you should be able to dedicate at least 800-1000 points to units that would be effective against Riptides. As suggested by many in this thread, fast moving CC units are an option, either for tarpitting the Riptides or actually running them down. Another option which is pretty taylor-made for MCs with 2+ saves is massed Grav weaponry, especially on bikes or Centurions. A 5 man Bike CS with Grav rifles puts out 15 grav shots at 12" move + 18" range (30" total) per turn. On average, you should get 10 hits, 8-9 wounds, and (as long as the 3++ is not activated), 5-6 unsaved wounds, which makes for basically one dead Riptide per turn of shooting. If you take two Biker Command Squads like this and a 3-4 man Centurion squad with Grav Weapons, you could eliminate 2-3 Riptides in your first turn of shooting, which takes away a massive chunk of his firepower, unit survivability, and just general combat power before he can bring it to bear. Additionally, if you do succeed in killing 2-3 Riptides in a single turn, it can be a very significant psychological blow to your opponent (in the same way that killing 2-3 Land Raiders of an opponent's 5 LR army in a single turn can be very shocking to him and throw him off his game plan). Two Bike Command Squads with Grav Rifles cost 420 points (not counting the HQs to unlock them) and 4 Grav Cannon Centurions cost 330 points, so a total of 770 points... that is still less than your opponent spent on Riptides and you could theoretically remove all his Riptide Battlesuits in a 2-3 turns of shooting with just these units alone. Of course, this is not a "magic bullet" solution that will solve all your problems, but it definitely has strong potential to counter the 5 Riptide force you describe in the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 I've seen Landraiders exploded by a single las cannon shot on turn 1. I have also tried to take a Riptide down before... a single Riptide. I flew TWO Stormravens to it, unloaded 2x Twin Linked Meltas, 2x Twin Linked Las Cannons and 6x Stormstrike missiles. I killed it's drones, and took off 3 wounds. It still had 2 left. It had FNP and he overcharged for the Invul boost the prior turn. I don't think some people realise just how tough it is to kill these things, never mind kill 5 of them. They are so cheap too.... That turn I committed 400 points to kill something worth little over 200... No, thats about right, it should take about twice a units points value with decent rolls to take it out. Come on guys. Let's be serious here. I fired 10 Ap2 and Ap1 Strength 8/9 shots in to that thing. On the next turn it landed a template on my shooty Termies who had just finished an assault and took out 4 of the 5. (I was afraid of this hence the Stormraven attack) You can't lecture about needing double the points to end something when a Riptide can make it's cost up in one shot from across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 The best tactic is to remove the part of the board its deployed on, with an industrial blowtorch. Failing that, i've had some luck sucking its soul out with a basic Librarian and 5 assault squad guys to escort him. Dependant somewhat on being able to hide behind terrain on approach. Even a basic 5 man assault squad with powerfist could take one out, if they could approach without getting shot to pieces... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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