Jump to content

Grav Cannons vs. las-cannons


Yosef Hausakluif

Recommended Posts

I should actually clarify that grav Centurions might have a place in a competitive environment, but people need to prove me wrong before I concede that point. I want to be wrong though, believe me!

 

As for Assault Centurions; they're great up close but unlike what the Tyranids will bring to the table, Marines don't have the numbers or speed to make footslogging infantry a viable option unless they're cheap. And Marines ain't cheap.

 

Put them in a Land Raider and you're doing well, but then consider you're also competing with cheaper models who are still premium assault units.

 

My Honour Guard.

 

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I should actually clarify that grav Centurions might have a place in a competitive environment, but people need to prove me wrong before I concede that point. I want to be wrong though, believe me!

As for Assault Centurions; they're great up close but unlike what the Tyranids will bring to the table, Marines don't have the numbers or speed to make footslogging infantry a viable option unless they're cheap. And Marines ain't cheap.

Put them in a Land Raider and you're doing well, but then consider you're also competing with cheaper models who are still premium assault units.

My Honour Guard.

smile.png

As I said. In a previous post. What centurions are best, depends on which chapter tactics you use. Personally I use iron hands so I want to use a lands raider and assault Centurion are a brilliant unit to put in it. I don't want to spend the points on a chapter master necessarily and assault centurions will chew through just about anything from hordes or 200+ point monstrous creatures and independent characters if you play cleverly, were as honour guard just want. I'm still getting used to playing assault Centurion but so far there the best configuration I have found.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

My Honour Guard

 

Get trolled hard by I4 AP2 CC attacks? ;)

Nah, they'll just get shot to death whilst my Honour Guard kill the enemy army.

 

But consider Orks or Tyranids. Massed attacks against a very few models, and your only defence (barring hitting first in a Land Raider) is a mere 3 D3 overwatch attacks? Of course you can drop your assault launchers but then you're pumping upgrades into them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Honour Guard

Get trolled hard by I4 AP2 CC attacks? msn-wink.gif

Nah, they'll just get shot to death whilst my Honour Guard kill the enemy army.

But consider Orks or Tyranids. Massed attacks against a very few models, and your only defence (barring hitting first in a Land Raider) is a mere 3 D3 overwatch attacks? Of course you can drop your assault launchers but then you're pumping upgrades into them.

No overwatch, ever. So even less defense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Calm down, Hallodx. Not everyone might take servo skulls!

I'm still thinking of putting some Centurions in my biker army. They feel a little more reliable than just gravguns.

Yeah, except bugs and chaos!

They are equipped with grav cannon now.

My Honour Guard

Get trolled hard by I4 AP2 CC attacks? msn-wink.gif

Nah, they'll just get shot to death whilst my Honour Guard kill the enemy army.

But consider Orks or Tyranids. Massed attacks against a very few models, and your only defence (barring hitting first in a Land Raider) is a mere 3 D3 overwatch attacks? Of course you can drop your assault launchers but then you're pumping upgrades into them.

How about give them a LRR? I know you play ultramarine, but consider WS HG and redeemer combo, you burn them, you charge them, you run away, you burn them, you charge them...(loop) Give them a Chaplain to make them more killy!

Oh and if I recall right, if your burn make them run, a successful charge into a retreating unit can destroy it. Not too sure if it's WHFB only or both game systems work the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If a unit is falling back and doesn't have ATSKNF they take a morale check, if they fail they die. I always hate it when this happens when I have a clear advantage but shouldn't quite kill them because now I'm stuck right out in the open for everyone to shoot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I have noticed in this discussion is "model count", this keeps coming up and its completely irrelevant.

 

Its wound count that matters. You allocate wounds against your models wounds not the models. So for an example 3 centurions have 6 wounds where as 5 bikers have 5 wounds having two more models is irrelevant. Its marginal if your trying to hide special weapons but in units that all models are equipped the same way that's pointless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing I have noticed in this discussion is "model count", this keeps coming up and its completely irrelevant.

 

 

Model count is certainly not irrelevant when the models lack 'eternal warrior'. How many tyranid players do you see using warriors?

 

Unlike the bike squad or a dev squad there's also zero ablative wounds or models in the centurion squad. Any losses will quickly dig into the damage output and force ld checks.

 

Of course having a squad of multi wound models can have benefits as well if you are able to spread the wounds around. 

 

Definitely not irrelevant. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another reason why model count matters more than wound count is the number of attacks you get, both shooting and CC.  Three Cents provide three sets of weapons; having six wounds doesn't change that number in any way, shape, or form, and being a wargame, the amount of damage a unit dishes out is perhaps more important than how much damage that unit can take.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

One thing I have noticed in this discussion is "model count", this keeps coming up and its completely irrelevant.

 

Model count is certainly not irrelevant when the models lack 'eternal warrior'. How many tyranid players do you see using warriors?

 

Unlike the bike squad or a dev squad there's also zero ablative wounds or models in the centurion squad. Any losses will quickly dig into the damage output and force ld checks.

 

Of course having a squad of multi wound models can have benefits as well if you are able to spread the wounds around.

 

Definitely not irrelevant.

Eternal warrior and instant death only matter if your being hit by str 10 or better. Yes so if your being pie plated by a vindy it helps to have more models to survive right? No it doesn't cause the less models you have the less hits your opponent can get on the squad.

 

Model count factors if your trying to avoid something that's multiple shot and can double out your multi wound model. How many multi shot direct fire str 10 weapons do you know of in 40k? Short of mixing it up with dreadnaughts or wraithguard your pretty much OK.

 

Deus Ex I agree losing one model hurts cc centurions or las can cents a lot.

 

However since two grav cannon centurions have 10 shots and a full squad of bikers with grav guns has 6 losing a single model is not the end of the world.

 

A single grav cannon amp centurion model has as much fire power as a 5 model unit of devs or wraithguard etc. Yes it hurts to lose models but I can tell you from practical experience they are hard to kill. By employing the old tau battle suit tactic you can keep the two wound model facing the opponents fire. The earliest I have ever lost a full centurion model is rnd 4.

 

Edit- I hate auto correct

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eternal warrior and instant death only matter if your being hit by str 10 or better. Yes so if your being pie plated by a vindy it helps to have more models to survive right? No it doesn't cause the less models you have the less hits your opponent can get on the squad.

 

 

However since two grav cannon centurions have 10 shots and a full squad of bikers with grav guns has 6 losing a single model is not the end of the world.

 

Wrong again, the game inherently favors MSU.

 

In the case of bikers and centurions we can't overlook the fact that the centurions run twice (or close to) the cost as well. So in the case of Bikers you have 2 units with 5-6 models each, giving us 6 models in two different units that doesn't have a huge impact on the damage output. With devs you only have the sergeant but 2 is more than 0.

 

2 units means 2 targets for the enemy, 2 units means being able to engage 2 different targets.  You can shell out for an omniscope to somewhat mitigate the latter, but a single unit can only be at one place at the time. 

 

Centurions will be more survivable against ap3 fire, particularly things that ignore cover, but that's it. You'll be far worse off against anything S10, Distort, force or other ID wargear/abilities. Quite a bit of that these days....  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If you're sticking Assault Centurion into a LR to deliver them, then *why* aren't you using the LR Assault LAunchers?  Crusader/Redeemer > Godhammer for dropping off Assault Troops.

 

A few bolters?  It's a full Squad of Marines, if not more, shooting, all Twin Linked.

 

For free.

 

 

Although then you have to weigh whether its worth shooting at the unit you intend to change, in risk of making you out of charge range.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you're sticking Assault Centurion into a LR to deliver them, then *why* aren't you using the LR Assault LAunchers?  Crusader/Redeemer > Godhammer for dropping off Assault Troops.

 

A few bolters?  It's a full Squad of Marines, if not more, shooting, all Twin Linked.

 

For free.

because land raiders get destroyed and you don't always want to get back into the land raider so you can assault a unit in cover.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.