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Word Bearer's Tactics

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#1
Brother Keyaetus

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Seeing as there is a Night Lord's tactic page up, I was thinking that since such a lesser legion have managed to work one up, then surely the most blessed deserve a tactica without question...

 

Now the book itself isn't due out until this friday, but ofcourse alot of copies have been given out already, along with many leaks...and by the time this hopefully kicks off anyway, the book should be out in full force.

 

So calling all true believers who have or do not have the new book yet, what can we think up of for the XVII legion's tactics?

 

One minor input I can give myself at the moment is our praetors...they have potential to be the best characters yet out of all the legions if given access to Burning Lore, from which I can tell can be given to any Praetor, Chaplian, Centurian and Diabolist, which then makes them a lvl1 psyker with access to Biomancy or Telepathy...

 

Meaning that in all those mirror Praetor/Paragon blade fights, with biomancy, they have a real chance at coming out on top...due to Iron arm, endurance and warp speed, any of which are a real treat.


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#2
depthcharge12

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I cant remember...is the special rule for the 3D6 leadership pick the lowest just for morale?

 

 

If its just for *leadership* then you can use that for Librarians for psycick tests and abuse the beejesus outta it!!!


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#3
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A few quick hitters before I run off to get dinner...

 

1. I dont think Burning Lore is a game breaker. Random roll, or Primaris, Level 1...could it be good? Sure. Could it be kind of a dud? Yep.

 

2. Allies with Daemons, that could be a game breaker. From a philosophical point of view I dont really like it. What appeals to me in the HH setting is that its one list, sure you have a unit here, and a special rule there, but there is a tight balance, a sense of fairness, that you certainly do not get out of 40K. Giving Word Bearers the only access to Daemons really does introduce the chance for that sense of balance to fly out the window on the back of a Lord of Change. Its only specials characters or the Rite of War for now, I hope it stays that way.

 

3. Our special rules are decent, 3d6 on morale checks is solid, but we have to take 2 HQ's.

 

4. Diabolists are neat. Opening up Dark Channeling for a random buff on say, a Terminator Blob, or your Assault Marines? Sure, why not. I wouldnt put 25 points into 5 models, but 10 Terminators? or 20 Assault Marines? That can add up.

 

5. Tainted Weapon, AKA Anthame. Nice enough, but how much multi wound stuff are we going to face, that doesnt have EW (Primarchs).

 

6. Special Units!

 

Gal Vorbak, beefy Possessed, 2W, WS5/S5/T5/5A Rending on the charge? lol. Yeah they are bulky, because 20 of them in a Spartan would be nasty. Oh and Daemons, 5++....

 

Ashen "I will burn you out of existence" Circle, as a closet pyromaniac and admitted anarchist...yes, yes please. Great anti horde, and a good way to force saves. Also WS5/S5, they are not as beat stick as the Gal Vorbak, but they do come with JP's and Phosphex if you want it to get some AP2 in there.

 

My initial thoughts revolved around nasty units coming out of Spartans, with Dark Channeled Terminators competing with the sheer unit erasing Gal Vorbak.

 

My first list, and what I am building up toward though, will be assault marines, destroyers, and ashen circle, all jumper. :]


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#4
ChaosReigns

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Of course, I don't have Massacre as yet, unfortunately, so bear with me in my (almost) total ignorance. :P What do you guys think of Kor Phaeron and Erebus, so far as it goes? Does anything in particular set them apart from the generic HQ's that can be taken in a Word Bearers army?

 

Also, I appreciate the sentiment behind having an all-jump troops Word Bearers army, actually, it's a pretty cool idea - I was wondering though - how would you guys go about (most effectively) incorporating the Ashen Circle and Gal Vorbak into a more run of the mill (as it were) Word Bearers army?

 

Oh, and finally, what sorts of buffs can one get with Dark Channeling? On a semi-related note, what do you guys think is the best load-out for Word Bearers Terminators (in terms of armour, weapons etc.)? Do any of you guys have a preferred deployment method for your Terminators?



#5
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Yeah, they can both summon daemons, without be constrained by the Rite of War. Thats the biggest thing.

 

Ashen Circle to me, are there to wipe out hordes, and force wounds. WS5 sets them apart, but they are really just fancy Assault Marines who thematically are awesome. Proto-Vanguard Vets in a way.

 

DC provides Zealot, or +1 Str, or Daemon. If Daemon, the unit is no longer scoring and dies at the end of the game. Its cheap enough on an expensive unit, but I wouldnt throw it around a ton and expect the world.

 

I'll be running Gal Vorbak and Terminators out of Spartans eventually. Maybe Storm Eagles I guess. :D


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#6
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Question about the Ashen Circle: the info I've seen says "the hammer of wrath attacks made by this unit are classed as flamer type
attacks". What exactly does that mean? I didn't think flamer attacks had any bearing on HoW?



#7
spu00sed

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It means that if someone has a special rule against flames (looks at the salamanders) then it effects the ashen circles hammer of wrath.
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#8
HaSY

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interestingly as in fluff wise they listed overwhelming assault and ideological warfare as part of their strategies, so you may be interested to explore that part out


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#9
Dumah

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It means that if someone has a special rule against flames (looks at the salamanders) then it effects the ashen circles hammer of wrath.

 

Ah, good call! Still, even with the Sallie trait, the attacks will hit with S4. Not too shabby.



#10
Scribe

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Yeah, fluff wise 30K..I see them as a horde assault force. They arent there to shoot you down, or display any kind of sneaky tactical advantage.

 

They are there to rip you from your throne, cast down your statues, smash your holy places, and demonstrate the Truth of the Word...the version of that Word is hardly relevant to their approach.

 

Thats certainly how I will be playing them.

 

Jumper heavy, to the point of almost exclusive JP units.

Death Star/Spartan, Terminators or Gal Vorbak.

Orbital Assault Rite of War.

 

Again from a fluff perspective the Daemon allies portion is great, and fits in perfectly with an assault leaning list, but I hope to explore other aspects before jumping into Daemon Allies.


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#11
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What what are people thinking for gaps in the 30K list, that our RoW could fill?

 

If you really want to break down what makes the Word Bearers play differently, its certainly our Daemon Allies.

 

We are fanatical, and break less than our fellow Astartes. (3D6 on Morale).

We always sweeping advance, and re-roll 1's on our sweeping advance.

We must always take 2 Compulsory HQ, a Centurion or Chaplain, but for our RoW, we need to take a Diabolist, so that means 3 HQ's just to unlock the RoW it seems as we need a Praetor (or Lorgar), Centurion or Chaplain, and a Diabolist.

 

Right? Looking at pretty big games at that point, which seems to be where they have play tested HH, in the 2k at the low end, up to 3k.

 

Where are people sitting normally? I think 2K is where I will start, though I play 40K at 1750 almost exclusively.

 

My immediate thoughts for allies would be, what can I get in support.

 

At that point, I would start with.

 

Lord of Change, Divination, with a few Greater Gifts.

Plague Marine blob.

Screamers/Hounds

Daemon Prince, Tzeentch

 

Thats mostly because I love Divination, and even with Burning Lore, we cant actually fit a Librarian with it in our RoW list!

 

The other alternative is the denial based unit. A GUO is going to be a pain with anyone if it gets Iron Arm, and a Nurgle DP in support.

 

I guess thats what I would bring as support, some MC's since they cant get into the list normally.


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#12
depthcharge12

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You could ally a ScreamerStar...

 

 

just kidding. Please dont be That Guy :P

 

 

Psykers would be helpful as the legion lists dont have much in the way of psyker defenses


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#13
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Yeah thats the thing, opening up Daemons can really bust up the sense of balance I fee is inherent in the HH book being a self contained list.

 

Then again, the HH list does have means of filling in the gaps for killing MC's, so perhaps my concern is unfounded.

 

WB could be super psyker heavy though.

 

Primarch, Chaplain, Diabolist

Greater Daemon

Daemon Prince

 

Thats a lot to deal with on its own.


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#14
depthcharge12

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Yeah thats the thing, opening up Daemons can really bust up the sense of balance I fee is inherent in the HH book being a self contained list.

 

Then again, the HH list does have means of filling in the gaps for killing MC's, so perhaps my concern is unfounded.

 

WB could be super psyker heavy though.

 

Primarch, Chaplain, Diabolist

Greater Daemon

Daemon Prince

 

Thats a lot to deal with on its own.

 

 

That is quite scary indeed...

 

 

Brown pants for the brown pants god!!!! :P

 

 

 

I would say for you to use a lot of cc squads and even smaller squads too because they wont break as easily with the true believers rule


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#15
Karthak

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interestingly as in fluff wise they listed overwhelming assault and ideological warfare as part of their strategies, so you may be interested to explore that part out

If I remember correctly they have a strong tendency towards the symbolic touch. They like making statements to their enemies.



#16
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Well thats really where the Ashen Circle come in, at least in the fluff. Functionally, they Assault Marines ++

 

Soften them up with a Flamer, and/or a Phosphex Bomb, and then crush them in Assault.

 

S5 HoW

4 S5 Attacks on the Charge most likely hitting and wounding on 3's.

 

You can also throw AA on the Iconoclast, and taking a Power Axe for 5 points isnt terrible risk. Likely what I'll be doing for rule of cool anyway.


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#17
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Topic: Diabolists.

 

How are folks planning on using them?

 

Pros: Makes you a Daemon, gives you access to Burning Lore and Dark Channeling, and Preferred Enemy (Loyalists)

Cons: No Bike, Jetbike, Terminator Armour, Power Fist, or Thunder Hammer.

 

The neat thing there...is that with Daemons as potential allies, you can bring in the Grimoire, so can rock a 2+/3++ if you wanted to. :P

 

AA, JP, Power Axe, is probably a good starting point, and if you have the points get yourself a roll on Biomancy through Burning Lore for extra tank-ness.


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#18
depthcharge12

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Topic: Diabolists.

 

How are folks planning on using them?

 

Pros: Makes you a Daemon, gives you access to Burning Lore and Dark Channeling, and Preferred Enemy (Loyalists)

Cons: No Bike, Jetbike, Terminator Armour, Power Fist, or Thunder Hammer.

 

The neat thing there...is that with Daemons as potential allies, you can bring in the Grimoire, so can rock a 2+/3++ if you wanted to. tongue.png

 

AA, JP, Power Axe, is probably a good starting point, and if you have the points get yourself a roll on Biomancy through Burning Lore for extra tank-ness.

 

 

*ahem* A 2++ rerollable *cough cough broken cough*

 

 

but we know that all of forgeworld is just plain cheese and everyone who uses it is a waac player :P


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#19
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I dont think you can get that down to a 2++ without a pretty beefy amount of luck as you only get 1 ally HQ, and thats the only way to get Divination into a Daemons allied list..I think?


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#20
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Just came upon 2 ideas though.

 

Cataphractii (4++), made into Daemons through Dark Channelling, THEN the Grimoire. 2++ Terminators...

 

Also: Imperial Armour Daemons. Decimators, Blight Drones...taken as allies.


Edited by Scribe of Khorne, 27 October 2013 - 07:09 PM.

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#21
Brother Keyaetus

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Was comparing Erebus to a chaplain decked out similarly. For around 30-40pts more, you get one more wound, other rules, master crafted etc. 

I was thinking too, chaplains/or Erebus with iron arm have the possbility of reaching strength 8 with their crozius', meaning while they dont ignore armour, they still can instant death folks who fail saves.

 

For dark channeling I think daemon is probably the worst result if you get it on a troop choice since they count as destroyed at the end of the battle, Zealot seems the best option, especially for a heavy assault army.


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#22
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True, its random though. I likely wouldnt go wild with it, but if you run some larger assault marine units, or the previously mentioned terminators, even if you get Daemon, if you bring that sweet sweet book, a 2++ is a beautiful thing. :P


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#23
Emperor's Furor

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Kind of part of this topic, but I'm trying to figure out what specialization my chapter may focus on if I was to put it together. Atm I have 15 marines, a graviton cannon and a chaplain with a jump pack (old rogue trader model) which can be changed to a normal back pack.

 

I know it's not much but it's what I've gathered together so far and I keep switching what legion I'm going for. I think the graviton cannon is pretty defining, it's a weird weapon but one I think could kind of emphasis the focus of my chapter.

 

What do you think? I hope you understand what I'm on about when I say specializations, it's in the Word Bearers article where it talks about the Serrated Suns, the Broken Scythe, the Tri Fold Crown etc.


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#24
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Yeah, I really dont have a solid enough grasp on the rules to say whats 'best', but Graviton makes it difficult terrain correct? So setting up a gunline type scenario and slowing down the oncoming troops?


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#25
Emperor's Furor

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It also takes out vehicles rather easily, since it has haywire. The Tri-Fold Crown does attritional warfare, would you classify the graviton weapon as attritional? I don't particularly want a defensive force, seems out of place for Word Bearers, they appear very aggressive in their Massacre article. I originally got the graviton cannon to act as cover for my salamanders force.


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