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Word Bearer's Tactics

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#676
SkimaskMohawk

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Not really. Dreadclaws give those units protection and still allows you to hold them back if their targets aren't available when they come in.

#677
Argel Tal

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If you have shooty unit you mostly want them to... shoot :P and dreadcalws are very expensive, better have more bodies shooting for support or seekers squad for instance !



#678
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I actually misread the rite; I was under the impression any unit that could take a rhino could take either pod, but only the gal vorbak have that option. The rest get normal pods as dedicateds.

On the whole though, if you did have the option for either on the rest, Id recommend the dreadclaws far more. Being forced to dump out shooting units when they don't have good targets isn't fun in Decapitation Strike, and it isn't fun in any other similar list.

#679
Argel Tal

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Well most of you weapons have around 24 range so with drop pods it should be fine enough with inertial drive and if necessary you can still buy dreadclaws as FA+ don't forget your pods create large pinning test areas which means on some lucky rolls you can pin some units which makes them immobile and crappy at shooting at you ! Remember that a unit has to make multiple pinning test if required unless one roll is missed sor most of the time on T1 with 4/5 pods you will pin one enemy unit :)



#680
SkimaskMohawk

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And transports, the things taken to complicate target priority and protect against alpha strike, stop those pinning tests too.

#681
Argel Tal

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Well this pining effect is more a sidenote bonus than anything else, the main strength with this is flying Gal Vorbaks and drop pod for all support,vet,seeker squads + tanks behind it 



#682
Monkeychunks

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Hi all,

I'm having real problems creating a WB list and would appreciate some help. My issue is that I cannot settle on a decent Rite of War because nothing lines up with the units I want to use, or imposes such limitations that it becomes a non-starter.

My favourite parts of the WB rules are the new-and-improved Ashen Circle, the compatibility with Daemons, and Dark Channeling. I am also very keen to throw in some Destroyers and armour pieces. I want to avoid relying on special characters if I can help it.

However, almost every Rite prohibits using either Jump Infantry or Allies somehow.

 

So far, the best one seems to be Angel's Wrath to stock up on Hit & Run, and really go spam-happy with my Jump Packs. Zardu Layak's ability to shunt Ashen Circle into Troops seems a bit mental on paper, but I doubt I will ever buy more than 2 Ashen Circle units in practice. As such I am looking at something like:

  • Praetor and Chaplain
  • 2x10 Assault Marines, 2x10 Ashen Circle, 2x5 Destroyers with Jump Packs
  • Allied Daemon Detachment with the Hit & Run Dominion
  • Everything else invested into Flyer-transported Infantry and Fire Raptors

Other problems I am finding are things like, if the Assault Marines are the only unit who can be Channeled, then a Diabolist seems unnecessarily expensive. At the same time it is not worth buying any more Channeled units because Destroyers and Ashen Circle are so incredibly superior that they become a bit of a wasted effort. So there is no real point in buying another Assault Squad, or loading Despoilers into a Storm Eagle, because I may as well spend the points on my Elites.

 

I'm also unsure of how the list actually plays because I've never had an army that heavily uses Jump units before. Do I just deploy normally and leg it up the board, relying on threat overload to reach combat? Or should I be looking at Deep Strikes, in which case how do I mitigate Reserve rolls? Is it a bad idea to try mixing in Flyers with Jump units because I will end up with a 'wave' approach that just gets everything killed? And how on earth do I deal with enemy vehicles; all of my Fast Attack slots are taken, and all of my Tanks are banned.

 

Basically if anyone has any experience running Angel's Wrath, or similar, I am desperate for help.


 


#683
Gorgoff

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Just don't play any RoW then.
Problem solved. :)
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#684
The Ironic Warrior

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So I've been playing Sons of Horus and Iron Warriors with some Daemons here and there, and I wanna take the plunge and commit the ultimate heresy. What kind of things are good to include as Word Bearers then?

I'm a huge fan of drop lists, and I wanna run with Zardu as he's great in the books (Lorgars a bit of a lil bitch in my eyes) so I wanna try and roll with them, plus Ruinstorm Daemon allies for good measure.


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#685
Imren

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Hi all,

I'm having real problems creating a WB list and would appreciate some help. My issue is that I cannot settle on a decent Rite of War because nothing lines up with the units I want to use, or imposes such limitations that it becomes a non-starter.

My favourite parts of the WB rules are the new-and-improved Ashen Circle, the compatibility with Daemons, and Dark Channeling. I am also very keen to throw in some Destroyers and armour pieces. I want to avoid relying on special characters if I can help it.

However, almost every Rite prohibits using either Jump Infantry or Allies somehow.

 

So far, the best one seems to be Angel's Wrath to stock up on Hit & Run, and really go spam-happy with my Jump Packs. Zardu Layak's ability to shunt Ashen Circle into Troops seems a bit mental on paper, but I doubt I will ever buy more than 2 Ashen Circle units in practice. As such I am looking at something like:

  • Praetor and Chaplain
  • 2x10 Assault Marines, 2x10 Ashen Circle, 2x5 Destroyers with Jump Packs
  • Allied Daemon Detachment with the Hit & Run Dominion
  • Everything else invested into Flyer-transported Infantry and Fire Raptors

Other problems I am finding are things like, if the Assault Marines are the only unit who can be Channeled, then a Diabolist seems unnecessarily expensive. At the same time it is not worth buying any more Channeled units because Destroyers and Ashen Circle are so incredibly superior that they become a bit of a wasted effort. So there is no real point in buying another Assault Squad, or loading Despoilers into a Storm Eagle, because I may as well spend the points on my Elites.

 

I'm also unsure of how the list actually plays because I've never had an army that heavily uses Jump units before. Do I just deploy normally and leg it up the board, relying on threat overload to reach combat? Or should I be looking at Deep Strikes, in which case how do I mitigate Reserve rolls? Is it a bad idea to try mixing in Flyers with Jump units because I will end up with a 'wave' approach that just gets everything killed? And how on earth do I deal with enemy vehicles; all of my Fast Attack slots are taken, and all of my Tanks are banned.

 

Basically if anyone has any experience running Angel's Wrath, or similar, I am desperate for help.

 

In your situation I'd consider the following:

  • Merge the assaults squads to 1x20 man squad, and merge the destroyers to 1x 10 man squad. This will give you larger squads that are more difficult to kill and give away less easy VPs in several missions.
  • Consider a warmonger and a terminator squad with magnetised combi-plasmas or combimeltas. This squad you use in collaboration with the big assaults squad. you home in on the most threatful enemy infantry squad in a transport or footslogging. Deep strike in the termies with the warmonger, and assault squad right behind the termie squad. Unload the combimeltas onto transport vehicle and pop it or combiplasma if enemy big threat is footslogging. Then wear out the countercharge that most likely will come at your termies (closest unit to assault), and then you countercharge the with the assault squad in your next turn.
  • Another option is equipping the assault squad with art. armour and p.fist on the sarge, 4x power axes (deal with enemy 2+ armour). In this case I'd also invest in a apothecary in this expensive unit to improve its survivability and you might as well put the praetor and chaplain here for some death star effects, this unit will be quite scary. The problem with this is that they are sitting ducks if you deep strike them in as they are not allowed to charge when deep striking.
  • Consider a Damocles command rhino that gives you a barrage pie plate and improves reserves.
  • if you go for a very mobile army use that mobility to your advantage, try outmanouvering your enemy by playing a refused flank tactic (deploy as if you're going for frontal asasult but you sweep in from a flank, that way you face less enemy units with more of your own and more enemy units out doing nothing on the other flank across the board).
  • For armour you need fast and versatile units. I'd recommend Sicaran Arcus, Fire raptor and lightning strike fighter (loaded with kraken penetrators) for popping enemy spartans and other AV14, they are fast and versatile but rey on good reserve rolls. Watch out for enemy mortis contemptors with double kheres and also Deredeos will be threatening (take them out early game before your lightning and fire raptor comes in).
  • Your list will benefit highly from deepstrikers with good shooting weapons, so a warmonger with a tac.support squad or combi-weapon armed termie squad will do good work for your rest of your army.


#686
Imren

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So I've been playing Sons of Horus and Iron Warriors with some Daemons here and there, and I wanna take the plunge and commit the ultimate heresy. What kind of things are good to include as Word Bearers then?

I'm a huge fan of drop lists, and I wanna run with Zardu as he's great in the books (Lorgars a bit of a lil bitch in my eyes) so I wanna try and roll with them, plus Ruinstorm Daemon allies for good measure.

 

 

 

Good WB combos besides your tac squads or assaults squads (especially in Centurion games):

  • Warmonger with 10x deepstriking plasma support squads (or combiplasma termies).
  • 10x Gal Vorbak, with meltagun and powerfist on the sarge.

 

Now you have two deep striking units that can be up your opponents face and he will have to deal with them, The Gal Vorbak is tough in close combat, the sarge have a S10 powerfist. and a meltashot useful same turn as they deep strike. I've seen a gal vorbak sergeant take down a knight with his S10 powerfist.

 

If you go for deep striking tactical support squad with warmonger, consider giving them a bodyguard of deep striking assault squad that deep strikes right behind the support squad, as the support squad has reduced the enemy elite infantry squad considerably during the shooting phase in the deep striking turn, they might get charged, then you counter charge with your bodyguard assault squad that are right behind.

 

The deep striking Gal Vorbak squad and tactical support squad will give your enemy significant headache while your tacticals spread out and take and hold objectives for VPs.



#687
The Ironic Warrior

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I like the sound of that!

Also what is the benefit of taking Gal Vorbak over Ruinstorm beasts?

Edit: I just noticed Vorbak have native Deepstrike so ignore my earlier point lol!

Edited by Yaaar's Revenge, 02 December 2019 - 04:36 PM.

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#688
nusphigor

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Hello everyone.

i've been looking to play 30k again and when i checked the legions all seem a bit meh in comparison to this one (which was the one i played as when the 2nd book came out).
However, i wanted to ask you if there is any posibility of playing a nice infantry based army without using their special units and named characters, as i want to make fluff of my own grand host.

Do you guys have any suggestions?

 

cheers!



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#689
Gorgoff

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Hello everyone.
i've been looking to play 30k again and when i checked the legions all seem a bit meh in comparison to this one (which was the one i played as when the 2nd book came out).
However, i wanted to ask you if there is any posibility of playing a nice infantry based army without using their special units and named characters, as i want to make fluff of my own grand host.

Do you guys have any suggestions?

cheers!

Of course it is possible.
Just have a look at the army list section in this forum.
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#690
nusphigor

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Hello everyone.
i've been looking to play 30k again and when i checked the legions all seem a bit meh in comparison to this one (which was the one i played as when the 2nd book came out).
However, i wanted to ask you if there is any posibility of playing a nice infantry based army without using their special units and named characters, as i want to make fluff of my own grand host.
Do you guys have any suggestions?
cheers!

Of course it is possible.
Just have a look at the army list section in this forum.

I see. Thank you!

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#691
tikhunt

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I've recently got into playing Heresy and I have to say I'm dissapointed, Gal Vorbak lacking 2+ save makes them worse than most other legion terminator equivalents in the survivability department with not much increased damage output being the one which stood out to me as a bit souring.

What is it that I'm missing, what do we do that gives us an edge other than summoning Daemons?

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#692
Unknown Legionnaire

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I've recently got into playing Heresy and I have to say I'm dissapointed, Gal Vorbak lacking 2+ save makes them worse than most other legion terminator equivalents in the survivability department with not much increased damage output being the one which stood out to me as a bit souring.

What is it that I'm missing, what do we do that gives us an edge other than summoning Daemons?

 

Gal Vorbak:  Yeah, they fill a totally different role than Legion Terminators, or when comparing their melee capabilities, they do approach them from a totally different angle. They're rending at initiative, have a Daemon save, Fear and whatever goodies come with that. Their bloody unit champion is almost a Praetor equivalent with T5 3 wounds, a 2+/5++ and a STR 10 Power Fist.

Maybe you should read into them once again ...

 

Other than that, you get a smattering of good special characters, one of the coolest Primarchs, the option for more psychic dice via the Burning Lore upgrades on characters, and easily one of the most reliable Leadership buffs in the game.

The FAQ'ed costs on the Ashen Circle make 'em an awesome jump infantry unit, and the Mhara Gal is easily one of the most underestimated units in the game.

What's not to like ?

 

The one thing that is currently more or less obsolete and kinda sucky, is the Word Bearer's legion specific RoW 'The Dark Brethren', because its benefits are largely irrelevant now. So that for sure would need a re-write / do-over.


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#693
SkimaskMohawk

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Word bearers have very, very good special units.

The gal vorbak are 200 points for 5 multi-wound, ws, s, t, and I 5 guys with deepstrike; 25 points gives you a powerfist and artificer. Due to the multiple wounds, the math works out to the gal vorbak needing to take 3 more armour saves on average than terminators to wipe them, 9 if the leader has artificer.

ashen circle are frankly a little bonkers for what you pay when using the play test rules. The ws 5, str 5 and ap 3 are very good, and a unit of 10 is pretty much a giant menace for any non-vehicle.

The real trick is how the characters support the rest of the army. Chaplains obviously turn either melee unit into an even bigger blender, but all the access to biomancy is what can really cause frustration when the GV have endurance on them. Or lorgar's divination. Or malefic daemonology buffs. Or zardu's dark chanelling on the ashen circle and making them troops. A lot of character support makes things that look a little dissapointing on paper a whole lot better. Everybody's a gangsta until erebus comes in with iron arm.

Edited by SkimaskMohawk, 07 February 2020 - 10:55 PM.

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#694
Imren

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Word bearers have very, very good special units.

The gal vorbak are 200 points for 5 multi-wound, ws, s, t, and I 5 guys with deepstrike; 25 points gives you a powerfist and artificer. Due to the multiple wounds, the math works out to the gal vorbak needing to take 3 more armour saves on average than terminators to wipe them, 9 if the leader has artificer.

ashen circle are frankly a little bonkers for what you pay when using the play test rules. The ws 5, str 5 and ap 3 are very good, and a unit of 10 is pretty much a giant menace for any non-vehicle.

The real trick is how the characters support the rest of the army. Chaplains obviously turn either melee unit into an even bigger blender, but all the access to biomancy is what can really cause frustration when the GV have endurance on them. Or lorgar's divination. Or malefic daemonology buffs. Or zardu's dark chanelling on the ashen circle and making them troops. A lot of character support makes things that look a little dissapointing on paper a whole lot better. Everybody's a gangsta until erebus comes in with iron arm.

Damnit! I bought 10 Gal Vorbak for my AL army to use when running Coils of the hydra RoW. But now with that comment of yours you make me consider build and paint a neat little 1500p WB army....


Edited by Imren, 09 February 2020 - 10:22 PM.


#695
tikhunt

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Ah okay, I'm playing in a campaign currently with more strict special rules which is why it may seem a bit weak. No named characters, no relics/psyarkana, no playtest rules. I guess those restrictions might cripple Word Bearers more than most or lead to them seeming weaker than they would otherwise?

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#696
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No. 

 

Opponents not using (anti-psy) Psyarkana is actually beneficial to you. 

 

Yes.

 

The initial costs / abilities on the Ashen Circle are totally underwhelming, they are only ever good with the 'playtest rules' applied.

 

 

Still, WB are an awesome Legion (and Gal Vorbak are a bonkers unit if used right), I wonder how you came to think of them as 'weaker' ...


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#697
tikhunt

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No.

Opponents not using (anti-psy) Psyarkana is actually beneficial to you.

Yes.

The initial costs / abilities on the Ashen Circle are totally underwhelming, they are only ever good with the 'playtest rules' applied.


Still, WB are an awesome Legion (and Gal Vorbak are a bonkers unit if used right), I wonder how you came to think of them as 'weaker' ...


Maybe it's just envy of some of the cool toys of other legions? Iron Hands, Thousand Sons and Dark Angels are what I've faced and they seem to get really good stuff. I need more practice clearly thanks for the help.

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#698
SkimaskMohawk

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Not sure why your group ditched the playtest rules for the sole reason of quad mortar balance. Play test should always be used due to that, and because the buffs to other units just make them good to strong, instead of mediocre. You just get a more balanced experience, and it's been a whole year without any other balance changes.

Now without that, ashen circle aren't great. They don't really add anything normal destroyers do other than the hammer of wrath, but as normal destroyers are also awful without playtest, they compete with assault marines. As such, assault squads are 240 for 20 while ashen circle are 275 for 10; ashen circle get ws 5 and always hammer of wrath at str 5, for -1 charge distance for almost 150% points per model. Not being able to take zardu to make them troops is another negative obviously.

Speaking about the lack of special characters, it can make a difference, but also not. Zardu obviously makes ashen circle troops and adds access to daemonology. Erebus and kor phaeron aren't anything special, but they importantly count towards the compulsory chaplain and rite of war diabolist. Lorgar adds a ton of psychic power support and is a great melee unit. Basically, you want to use as much psychic powers to support your units as possible, and the lack of zardu and lorgar can hurt a lot. But gal vorbak in particular can still put in a lot of work, especially with a chaplain. Stay away from ashen circle until they start using the proper rules.
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