[HH1.0] Word Bearer's Tactics

[Gorgoff]

Michaelcarmine your entire argument is flawed because despite making an attack as if it were the shooting phase, Fury requires you to be actually in the shooting phase. It's notably the movement phase and that's the RAW of it; Movement =/= Shooting.

 

@gorgoff the rules are full of weird stuff that just works the way it does because that's how rules work. You gotta use the actual rules as the basis for discussion in a tactical; I don't talk about the house rules I use as if it were a contributing factor for units strengths and weaknesses.

Me too and I see no room for discussion here.

I shoot as if in my shooting phase and there I can fury.

Don't know where you get the idea that you can't.

You could argue, that you can only do that if you didn't move in your turn because that prevent you from fury in your shooting phase, but otherwise I see no problem at all.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Being allowed to shoot as if it were the shooting phase doesn't actually make it the shooting phase. It's still the movement phase.

[MichaelCarmine]

Being allowed to shoot as if it were the shooting phase doesn't actually make it the shooting phase. It's still the movement phase.

Fury simply states, that" ... squad can elect to make a Fury of the Legion attack in the Shooting phase,...".

Augury says "...can be fired against any one enemy unit... ...as if it were the controlling player's Shooting Phase."

 

As if it were - "assume, you are in the shooting phase of your turn".

 

i really don't get, why you wouldn't grant them Fury...

 

Michaelcarmine your entire argument is flawed because despite making an attack as if it were the shooting phase, Fury requires you to be actually in the shooting phase. It's notably the movement phase and that's the RAW of it; Movement =/= Shooting.

 

@gorgoff the rules are full of weird stuff that just works the way it does because that's how rules work. You gotta use the actual rules as the basis for discussion in a tactical; I don't talk about the house rules I use as if it were a contributing factor for units strengths and weaknesses.

Me too and I see no room for discussion here.

I shoot as if in my shooting phase and there I can fury.

Don't know where you get the idea that you can't.

You could argue, that you can only do that if you didn't move in your turn because that prevent you from fury in your shooting phase, but otherwise I see no problem at all.

 

Even then - the rule states that player turn, not your player turn =]

[MichaelCarmine]

Or better yet - can you tell me, what i could do with a legion tactical squad, if it were my shooting phase?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Because it's clearly a decision about a special attack that's made in the shooting phase, while augury gives permission to fire ranged weapons as if it were. Being in a phase is fundamentally different than pretending it's a phase and I could go one step further and say that you're only given permission to fire weapons and not make special attacks.

[MichaelCarmine]

Because it's clearly a decision about a special attack that's made in the shooting phase, while augury gives permission to fire ranged weapons as if it were. Being in a phase is fundamentally different than pretending it's a phase and I could go one step further and say that you're only given permission to fire weapons and not make special attacks.

So why errata the old interceptor rule, where it specifically states that?

Why change it into a rule, where the Player get's to fire the weapons as if it were his phase (in which he could elect to fire them twice)?

 

Also its not in the movement phace, its at the end of the movement phase.

 

And in the case of "special attacks" - in the shooting phase, you can shoot weapons, there's no mention of being able to perfom special attacks.

So with that logic, i couldn't even use the Special Rule (for shooting weapons), that the tactical squad gives me.

[Gorgoff]

Because it's clearly a decision about a special attack that's made in the shooting phase, while augury gives permission to fire ranged weapons as if it were. Being in a phase is fundamentally different than pretending it's a phase and I could go one step further and say that you're only given permission to fire weapons and not make special attacks.

Nah, I don't buy that.

If I can shoot like I am in the shooting phase I can fury.

 

 

Because it's clearly a decision about a special attack that's made in the shooting phase, while augury gives permission to fire ranged weapons as if it were. Being in a phase is fundamentally different than pretending it's a phase and I could go one step further and say that you're only given permission to fire weapons and not make special attacks.

So why errata the old interceptor rule, where it specifically states that?

 

This as well.

Why change it when nothing changes?

[SkimaskMohawk]

It's been a while since the faq and the old way so I understand why you guys might be forgetting the old augury scanner that;

-only worked on deepstrike

-only gave rapid fire and heavy weapons permission to shoot

-mechanically couldn't be used because it kicked in during the shooting phase but interceptor happens in the movement phase.

 

They didn't just decide it should have bespoke writing rather than interceptor; they made function mechanically and buffed it.

 

I can tell were not going to agree here, but if you want to continue we should do it in the rules subforum rather than the tactica. Maybe get a mod to move these posts over to the (I think) preexisting thread.

[MichaelCarmine]

I don't think anyone is forgeting the old rules, thats why we mentioned them.

But why not say interceptor with 18" limitation?

Why specifically errata it to "Fire, like it is my shooting phase", rather than say "gets interceptor with a range of 18 inch"?

[Gorgoff]

I don't think anyone is forgeting the old rules, thats why we mentioned them.

But why not say interceptor with 18" limitation?

Why specifically errata it to "Fire, like it is my shooting phase", rather than say "gets interceptor with a range of 18 inch"?

Although I am on your side on this I may add that it is absolutely possible that whoever wrote that FAQ just didn't thought about the implications it has if a unit can shoot like in it's shooting phase. Let's be honest those things happened in the past more often than not. 

But as is I stay on my assumption that it is possible for already listed reasons.

 

@skimaskmohawk: You're right. This should be in the rules section.

[Mogsam]

To be fair, it's not a massive thing with fury of the Legion, it's not too deadly.

 

I do very much care about the implications for the Arcus with its double firing. That's alot more terrifying.

[Gorgoff]

To be fair, it's not a massive thing with fury of the Legion, it's not too deadly.

 

I do very much care about the implications for the Arcus with its double firing. That's alot more terrifying.

PEWPEWPEW

Since she has no Augury Scanner there are no implications. ;)

Edited September 19, 2021 by Gorgoff

[Dhar'Neth]

I’ve got 10 Ashen Circle ready to be assembled and I am wondering about the loadout. Any advice?

[The Native]

I’ve got 10 Ashen Circle ready to be assembled and I am wondering about the loadout. Any advice?

Which ruleset would you be using?

 

They're not great under the original ruleset but they're pretty good under the experimental FAQ ruleset.

[Dhar'Neth]

Experimantal rules. I was wondering if it is worth upgrading some with power axes and inferno pistols.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

I’ve got 10 Ashen Circle ready to be assembled and I am wondering about the loadout. Any advice?

Which ruleset would you be using?

 

They're not great under the original ruleset but they're pretty good under the experimental FAQ ruleset.

I don't think anyone should not be using the experimental rules at this point. It's close to 3 years since they came out, toned down a lot of the more outrageous stuff and tried to boost some underperforming units. Like if you really want to see 4 shot quads with phosphex again, I guess don't use the faq.

 

As for the loadouts, it's pretty hard to recommend full power axes for 5 more points per model. Maybe sprinkle a couple in just to whack artificer armour seargents? On the whole though, the unit is designed to do more quantity over quality with the flamers, impact hits and ap 3.

[The Native]

Experimantal rules. I was wondering if it is worth upgrading some with power axes and inferno pistols.

Good for taking out an artificer armoured sergeant but don't go crazy. I'd give inferno pistols a miss. Ashen Circle are all about culling MEQ equivalents and below so any expenditure of points that specifically targets TEQ equivalent reduces their points efficiency. 

[Imren]

I’ve got 10 Ashen Circle ready to be assembled and I am wondering about the loadout. Any advice?

The answer to this question depends on what you want to use them for (assuming your main target is infantry squads). If you want to have versatility meaning you want to be able to take on or disregard enemy AP2 infantry (terminators, command squads, legion spec units) movements, then yes, its good idea to buy power axes. If you want to go after enemy AP3 only, and plan to deploy and move them accordingly, then no need for power axes, although you should have AP2 weapon on your sarge because you will most likely face a challenge against a enemy character with AP2 (powerfist or axes most likely) when charging or getting charged. It is pretty much a standard to equip your line infantry squad sergeants with power fists and artificier armour for the added tactical flexibility (tank incoming shooting, and hit back on dreadnoughts).

 

If you feel indecisive on how you want to use your ashen circle in the long run, I strongly advice to get cylindrical 2mm high x 2 mm diameter N52 strenght magnets and magnetise the wrists for easy weapon swap.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Imren

[Dhar'Neth]

Thanks for all the inputs. I think I’m going to make the unit pretty basic and only take two power axes (one on Iconoclast) “just in case”.

[suxdavide]

Any rumor spread about WB?

[The Scorpion]

 

Experimantal rules. I was wondering if it is worth upgrading some with power axes and inferno pistols.

Good for taking out an artificer armoured sergeant but don't go crazy. I'd give inferno pistols a miss. Ashen Circle are all about culling MEQ equivalents and below so any expenditure of points that specifically targets TEQ equivalent reduces their points efficiency. 

 

Wouldn't the inferno pistol be useful to crack open a small defense layer like a Rhino or the artificer armor of a sarge?