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Alternate Heresy Community Project


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#26
Conn Eremon

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I could see Fulgrim, the fifth Chaos God of Low Self-Confidence, being the only Primarch whose views are so contrary to Corax that is actually convinced of the facade Corax puts forward. The others, in general, see through it, and either think less of him, like Konrad would, or accept or agree with him, like Barabbas and Sanguinius would, or don't care either way, like with Jonson or Bron.

I like the idea that, when Fulgrim first starts sowing dissent, Corax tries to keep momentum going and redirect their fervor elsewhere. Like towards another errant brother. Like someone who has, since Ullanor, ignored Corax's commands and essentially set up a pocket empire. Jonson. Plan backfires, dissent sparks off into open rebellion. Corax convinces some brothers of helping him cement his claim to authority. Some jump aboard, some need some convincing, some need to be dealt with, some open fire.

Corax determines that Terra, housing Fulgrim and the Emperor's remains, is a threat that needs eliminating. And the galaxy burns.

Edit: Looks like I missed some replies.

Gotta admit, I don't see Corax as ever being loyal in truth. He might need to be rewritten a bit for that to show through.

Edited by Cormac Airt, 27 October 2013 - 12:32 AM.

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#27
Wade Garrett

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Sooo... He's like Corax? blink.png


Canon or Lanista?

Look, in Space Soviet France Barbarus, you may be dragged to the coal mines for being a dissident, but the trains, the trains, good sir, run on TIME!

"Better to die having exhausted one's strength than to fail without ever reaching your limits."

Perturabo, Primarch of the IV Legion "Warriors of Iron".


#28
Wade Garrett

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Let me expound on this theme a bit.

Canon Mortarion went down the mountain and saw his people, who were being oppressed and needed a liberator.

Barabbas came down and saw these people, with their filth and their ill constructed hovels and their superstition, and decided they needed to be educated and organized and told what to do by a LOGISTICAL GENIUS.

Fortunately for them, one was available! What, abandon his position as dad's heir? And all those resources he has as heir, that can make these villagers better off...he just pees those against the wall?

How unlogistical.

"Better to die having exhausted one's strength than to fail without ever reaching your limits."

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#29
Noctus Cornix

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@Cormac- That's sort of what I've been saying for a while, mate. He's an ambitious bastard but he respects the Emperor. He just likes taking a bigger slice of pie over his brothers. Think more tyrannical Guilliman.



#30
Conn Eremon

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And so we have two more tyrannical Guillimans, I see. And if Corax veers any further into the godhood realm, he'll be stepping on Sanguinius' grounds.

Sounds like you got your work cut for you, noctus. You get the arch-heretic, but gotta walk a fine line between Barabbas and Sanguinius.

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#31
Noctus Cornix

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He's still the Lanista Corax that I started with...



#32
Hyaenidae

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Sanguinius already being a bastard before the.... civil war, rebellion, revolution?....we really should spread his chaotic love amongst the primarchs and their Legions a bit more. I mean, he's been hoping for his dad to buy the farm since day one, he's gotta be estatic that Corax is running the family business. Gives him an opportunity to start whispering madness in Lanista's ear. Chaplains, Lodges (Choirs, maybe?) all that fun stuff.

 

He's basically Lorgar, but without the prior worship phase of the Word Bearers. How do we work that in?

 

EDIT: I hate talking about this without Gree, but I just feel Sangy should play a bit more of a part.


Edited by 1000heathens, 27 October 2013 - 01:16 AM.

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#33
Conn Eremon

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Not sure, to be honest. Unlike Lorgar, who messiahs in the Emperor as a God, Sanguinius views himself as a god and is crushed to find something greater than he.

I see him viewing Chaos as a means to reach that pinnacle once more.

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#34
Wade Garrett

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I see the difference between Lanista and Roboute as much the same as those between Horus and canon Roboute.

Arch Heretic:
Brother, I admire the zeal your Legion showed in charging over piles of your own dead to beat the enemy to death with their bare hands.

Roboute:
That was inefficient. I will now lecture you in exacting detail on why it was inefficient and how you can do better.

With Barabbas being even more tactless/plain spoken than Guilliman.

Edit:
Noctus, I'm curious of your opinion on how Lanista views Ferrous.

Edited by Wade Garrett, 27 October 2013 - 01:32 AM.

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#35
Noctus Cornix

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I was not aware that was a Sanguinius thing, but then again I never got the chance to read Gree's Sanguinius...

 

Guess I'll think of something else.



#36
Conn Eremon

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Well, I just re-read it to double-check what I said, and yeah. Sanguinius names himself God-King, Emperor Monarchias him upon discovery, Sanguinius gets all butthurt about it.

While reading it though, I got what I think is a nice idea. Gree mentions Sanguinius turning to prophetic visions more and more.

What if he and Konrad see the same thing?

Konrad changes fate at Gorro, so Sanguinius, present at Ullanor, gives destiny a nudge back on track.

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#37
Hyaenidae

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Yeah, kinda what I was going at. Less a Arch-Heretic of Daemon-gribbles, more like a power broker, convincing his brother(s) that the only way to win this war is to get some outside help...


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#38
Noctus Cornix

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But I liked the idea of Corax trying to turn himself into a Chaos God... Still sorta do. Hmmmmm....



#39
Conn Eremon

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Perhaps instead of Sanguinius aping Lorgar, trying to find who the real Gods are and setting up Lodges, he always knew who they were. Like poppa Kor, he never gave up the faith. Instead, he works behind the scenes and actively changes things until it ends with the Emperor down and a more malleable Primarch ruling in his stead.

Edit: What if we try to swap Sanguinius' and Corax's ambitions a bit?

Sanguinius wants to be the God-King again. Not God of ephemeral Warp nonsense. A material ruler whose authority is divine.

Corax does want to become a God of ephemeral warp nonsense. So maybe some sort of arrangement is made. They work together to throw the galaxy and the Warp in turmoil, the endgame being that Corax moves up and on to holier things, leaving the Imperium to Sanguinius. Perhaps with Barabbas as a civil administrator/pope or something. Goge Vandire, basically.

Ironically, Sanguinius becomes a Daemon Primarch, 40k's literal God-Kings, while Corax becomes the Corpse-God, Lord of Not Breathing.

Edited by Cormac Airt, 27 October 2013 - 02:09 AM.

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#40
Wade Garrett

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Hmmm...I was going to say the problem is Barabbas wants what is best for mankind:

Namely, having every aspect of their lives micromanaged by Roboute Barabbas. He has all kinds of paperwork proving this is objectively the best approach.

Then again, he falls to become a Daemon Primarch of Nurgle...perhaps Sangy deliberately set that up so a potential rival in the Materium goes off to sing the praises of decay in the Warp?

"Better to die having exhausted one's strength than to fail without ever reaching your limits."

Perturabo, Primarch of the IV Legion "Warriors of Iron".


#41
Brother Heinrich

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I like the idea of Sanguinius working to counteract Curze behind the scenes. Maybe he never reveals his prophetic ability, rather he just always seems to be a the right place at the right time. Uses it to further fuel his own mystique. Then when the ambitions turn toward placing himself/Corax in power he uses his gift to smear Curze, who's gift is known, causing Konrad to doubt his abilities and question his own worth. 


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#42
Conn Eremon

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Man, Sanguinius sounds like a smooth operator right now. I like Wade's idea, though it might be best to have Corax do what Heinrich suggests, if we're keeping this as his Heresy and not Sanguinius'. Though it is sounding like Sanguinius was the power behind the throne who coveted the throne.

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#43
Brother Heinrich

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Man, Sanguinius sounds like a smooth operator right now. I like Wade's idea, though it might be best to have Corax do what Heinrich suggests, if we're keeping this as his Heresy and not Sanguinius'. Though it is sounding like Sanguinius was the power behind the throne who coveted the throne.

Well thats basically what Lorgar was for Horus.


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#44
Noctus Cornix

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Not really.... As that's essentially what Lorgar and his Legion did.

Difference is that the Horus Heresy started because of a wound upon Horus' flesh made by the Anathame to bring him under the sway of the Gods.

Corax, more or less, puts his plans into motion before he even learns about the Gods, molding the imperium into his vision bit by bit. Only when he begins to see.... 'complications' does Sanguinius perhaps approach his brother and reveal to him the existence of the Dark Gods, and when the Tyrant Prince finally speaks to his new 'brothers', only then does he fall to the Temptations of Chaos... And, rather than fall prey to the fell-blade Anathame, instead he will be carrying it in his hand into the Imperial Palace, the blood of his dead kin dripping from its obsidian edge, intent upon digging it deep into his Father's chest and completing his ascension to where he truly belongs.


Edited by noctus cornix, 27 October 2013 - 03:18 AM.


#45
Conn Eremon

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Eh, I can concede that point. I still think of Lorgar as the lazy dude who won't leave the Chaos Gods' couch, but the Heresy series has made him much more proactive.


Question for everyone:
What do you guys think of keeping the Legion break-up into Chapters? Retaining Legions is in like 99% of all Alternate Heresies. I, for one, would love to see many Chapters, with individual identities, based around our primogenitors. Probable cause is there, too much power, too few hands. We'd just need to pick someone to think of it and champion it. Even though Barrabas and/or Angron are obvious choices, I think Perturabo could fit the bill as well.

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#46
Brother Heinrich

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I'm okay with it, like I said I want to do a version of the Iron Cage where Konrad breaks his legion on the anvil of one of his brother Primarch's legions, maybe Sanguinius. 


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#47
Wade Garrett

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Actually Barabbas probably would be against a break up.

I'm ruthlessly pillaging "fanon" Guilliman for a lot of his character, which is to say he's an obsessive micromanager who throttles iniative and improvisation in his Legion ("Do what I TELL YOU to do, not whatever addle brained scheme you've come up with on the spur
of the moment.")

Now, he can get away with a lot of this because he's pretty doggone good at his job, so the standard battle plans he lays out for his Legion to follow can handle most situations.

Key word: MOST.

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#48
Noctus Cornix

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would this happen before or after the Heresy, exactly?...



#49
Conn Eremon

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Chapters? After, definitely after. A potential solution to the problem of "what now?" after the heathens have been dealt with. No offense, 1000heathens. :P

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#50
Hyaenidae

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Chapters? After, definitely after. A potential solution to the problem of "what now?" after the heathens have been dealt with. No offense, 1000heathens. tongue.png

 

Huh. My ex-wife used to say the same thing.   :lol:

 

With my vestigial thoughts on the Iron Hoplites being ground down to the point of filling their ranks with mechanicum constructs, I'd say Perty would most definetley champion a "chapter" system. I got a double-dog-dare idea, though. How about we come up with a different system other than Chapters?

 

A Centuriae of 2,500 Astartes?

 

A Phalanx of 3,000?

 

etc....


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