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Iron Hands Tactics


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#1876
Slips

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Hi All,

 

I'm after some general Iron Hands tactical advice regarding how to defeat my regular opponents. I have quite a large, varied Iron Hands army, but I always seem to get wiped out by my opponents, who mostly favour Assault-based armies. My main regular opponent fields Emperor's Children and Sons of Horus, and as soon as he gets into Close Combat, I might as well pack up and call it a day blush.png

 

His Emperor's Children force usually consists of mostly large Palatine Blade Squads and Assault Squads, all backed up by Apothecaries, Chaplains and Praetors etc. Even if I build similar Iron Hands squads, they will get annihlated due to the assault bonuses that Emperor's Children get in Close Combat.

My other opponents are all similarly assault-based - World Eaters, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Imperial Fists (Sigismund & Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield Terminators).

 

I'm guessing that the best approach is to gun them down before they lock me into close combat, but I always run out of turns and get over-run!
 

Units I can field currently are:

  • Ferrus Manus
  • Shadrak Meduson
  • 5-Man Terminator Honour Guard (Volkites & Axes)
  • Various Praetors & Centurion Consuls, plus I can make loads more, including the new guys from Malevolence.
  • 3 x Apothecaries
  • 20 Cataphractii (Axes & Combi-Volkites)
  • 3 Contemptors (various loadouts)
  • 3 x Graviton Rapiers
  • 40 Tactical Marines (all Bolters)
  • 20 Breachers
  • 3 x 10-Man Tactical Support Squads (10 Volkite Culverins, 10 Flamers, 10 Graviton Guns)
  • 20 Heavy Support Marines (10 Lascannons, 10 Volkite Calivers)
  • 2 x Spartans
  • 1 x Landraider Proteus
  • 1 x Achilles-Alpha Landraider
  • 3 x Conversion Beamer Predators
  • 3 x Medusas
  • 5 x Multimelta/Graviton Gun Landspeeders

 

I'm also working on the following at the moment:

  • 10 Destroyers
  • 10 Gorgon Terminators
  • 10 Tartaros Terminators (all dual-Lightning Claws)
  • 20 Breachers
  • 20 Medusan Immortals
  • 20 Assault Marines
  • 1 x Sicaran / Sicaran Arcus
  • 2 x Leviathan Dreadnoughts
  • 1 x Fire Raptor Gunship
  • 1 x Falchion
  • 1 x Typhon

 

Well, with the new Mortifactor Consul available in Book 8 Malevolence, as an Iron Hand you now have access to a pretty tough and nasty Dreadnought Blob that has the following if taken with Ferrus in a Head of the Gorgon RoW using Contemptors

  1. AV13
  2. 5++ vs Shooting 6++ vs Melee
  3. 5+ "Ignore damage" from the Mortifactor
  4. 5+ IWND from Ferrus
  5. 6+ Blessed Autosimulacra from HOTG

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#1877
Urza

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Well, with the new Mortifactor Consul available in Book 8 Malevolence, as an Iron Hand you now have access to a pretty tough and nasty Dreadnought Blob that has the following if taken with Ferrus in a Head of the Gorgon RoW using Contemptors

  1. AV13
  2. 5++ vs Shooting 6++ vs Melee
  3. 5+ "Ignore damage" from the Mortifactor
  4. 5+ IWND from Ferrus
  5. 6+ Blessed Autosimulacra from HOTG

 

 

Thanks Slips! I had been looking at a Cataphractii Mortifactor to go with my three Contemptors. Guess I had better look at getting a couple more Contemptors to fill out the unit!

My only concern is that when I fought the EC player recently with a similar unit (two Contemptors, backed up by a Cataphractii Forgelord), the Dreadnoughts got melta-bombed to death, even with Blessed Autosimulacra and the Forgelord's 4+ Battlesmith (Battlesmith + Servo-Arm).


"Make war and move on, and again, and again, until nothing breathes which stands against us. All else is sophistry and pretty lies"
- Ferrus Manus, The Gorgon, Lord & Primarch of the Xth Legion Iron Hands.
 
"Give me my hand, Gorgonson. Make me whole so that one day soon I might close my fists around the throat of Horus Lupercal and choke him until his filthy light goes out"
- Shadrak Meduson, Warleader of Clan Sorrgul.

Urza's Anvilarium - My Heresy-Era 'Iron Hands' Xth Legion Blog.

#1878
Slips

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Yeah, getting mass Meltabomb'd doesnt help but, the advantage is that despite the dreads being a unit and having to move together, they all effectively have split fire so you can definitely make some sacrificial dreads at the front of the unit loaded out with shooting while you keep the more punchy safe in the back.

 

I also probably wouldnt take Cataphractii on the Mortifactor; give him Tartaros and a cyber-familiar for a 4++ so that he retains the ability to sweep because as a unit, having a Cataphractii Mortifactor would stop them from sweeping.

 

if you were using 5 Dreads I'd consider:

  • 2 Dreads with fist/chain fist with Plasma Blasters in each hand (4 Plasma Shots per dread; other option would be grav guns for Haywire)
  • 1 Dread with dual fists with heavy flamers for Overwatch
  • 2 Dreads with Dual Kheres

At least for now until we can get more of an idea what would be a more ideal loadout for a unit like this


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#1879
Luna707

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Yeah, getting mass Meltabomb'd doesnt help but, the advantage is that despite the dreads being a unit and having to move together, they all effectively have split fire so you can definitely make some sacrificial dreads at the front of the unit loaded out with shooting while you keep the more punchy safe in the back.

 

I also probably wouldnt take Cataphractii on the Mortifactor; give him Tartaros and a cyber-familiar for a 4++ so that he retains the ability to sweep because as a unit, having a Cataphractii Mortifactor would stop them from sweeping.

 

if you were using 5 Dreads I'd consider:

  • 2 Dreads with fist/chain fist with Plasma Blasters in each hand (4 Plasma Shots per dread; other option would be grav guns for Haywire)
  • 1 Dread with dual fists with heavy flamers for Overwatch
  • 2 Dreads with Dual Kheres

At least for now until we can get more of an idea what would be a more ideal loadout for a unit like this

 

I heard there was a dread version of the Nullifactor flamer, Does anyone know it's stats? Could be useful in this setup^


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#1880
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I haven't actually heard that, but if it's a full arm I would expect torrent, if it's a replacement for a combi-bolter it'll probably be the same. 


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#1881
Darkwrath121

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I heard there was a dread version of the Nullifactor flamer, Does anyone know it's stats? Could be useful in this setup^

I haven't actually heard that, but if it's a full arm I would expect torrent, if it's a replacement for a combi-bolter it'll probably be the same.

From memory, it's a S7 shred cannon, apparently. Same 'tainted' (rending/un-blessing) rule as the flamers though.

Replaces the HFlamer.

Edited by Darkwrath121, 26 March 2019 - 01:53 PM.


#1882
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@urza: Could you post the usual army lists of your opponents?
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#1883
Urza

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@urza: Could you post the usual army lists of your opponents?

 

My last game was Zone Mortalis, against Emperor's Children. I was the Attacker and my opponent was the Defender.

He was running the following list:
 

  • 1 x Praetor, attached to a 10-Man Palatine Blade Squad
  • 1 x Chaplain Consul, attached to a 10-Man Palatine Blade Squad
  • 2 x 10-Man Assault squads
  • 1 x 10-Man Tactical Assault Squad (Meltaguns)
  • 1 x 10-Man Tactical Squad.

The Palatine Blade Squads were all equipped with Artificer Armour and a mix of Spears and Charnabal Sabres.

 

I was running:

  • Shadrak Meduson
  • 1 x Forgelord Consul
  • 2 x Contemptor Dreadnoughts (who worked with the Forgelord)
  • 2 x Apothecaries (attached to the Breacher Squads)
  • 1 x 5-Man Cataphractii Terminator Squad (Power Axes and Volkite Chargers)
  • 2 x 10-Man Breacher Squads (all Bolters)
  • 1 x 5-Man Tactical Support Squad (Volkite Culverins)

Edited by Urza, 01 April 2019 - 01:00 PM.

"Make war and move on, and again, and again, until nothing breathes which stands against us. All else is sophistry and pretty lies"
- Ferrus Manus, The Gorgon, Lord & Primarch of the Xth Legion Iron Hands.
 
"Give me my hand, Gorgonson. Make me whole so that one day soon I might close my fists around the throat of Horus Lupercal and choke him until his filthy light goes out"
- Shadrak Meduson, Warleader of Clan Sorrgul.

Urza's Anvilarium - My Heresy-Era 'Iron Hands' Xth Legion Blog.

#1884
Iron Father Ferrum

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Hey guys. I'm planning on winning the lottery tonight. How are we doing in the 30K meta? Is an outflanking Vindicator squadron a good idea to shoot for?
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#1885
Droz_64

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How should I equip Immortals (Using the playtest rules)? I love the concept, and the models are badass. Is the CCW swap worth it? What special weapons should they take (If any)?



#1886
Unknown Legionnaire

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 Is the CCW swap worth it?

 

It essentially does nothing for you, since you can't get extra attacks for a second close combat weapon in melee any way since you're using boarding shields.

 

So you're trading your boltguns away for ... nothing.


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#1887
Droz_64

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Ah ok

 

Then bolters it is. What would you recommend getting for a ~1k list for ZM/Small games (Essentially city fight terrain, most likely with ZM FOCs)? So far, I'm thinking: Forge Lord, Tactical Squad, Immortals, Contemptor, Thallaxii, and whatever else I'd need to fill up the list to 1k. 



#1888
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#1889
Unknown Legionnaire

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In regards to 'Rigid Tactics' ...

 

... an Iron Hands army contains the following

 

2 Infantry units

 

2 Jump Infantry units

 

... plus one Apothecarion Detachments, in which one Apothecary is on foot and the second one is equipped with a Jump Pack (I.E, an even split).

 

Is this still in accordance with the 'Rigid Tactics' legion rule ?


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#1890
Charlo

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From what I understand the Apothecarys both join the units and become part of them so wouldn't count towards it or be an issue.

Regardless, you just can't have *more* jump infantry than normal infantry, so with an even split (and assuming you have some HQs on foot) then you're fine mate.
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#1891
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Humm. I would personally count Apothecaries as a single unit by themselves. Reason why is that they take up an FOC, give up VP, but only if you take them all down.

It's a grey area for sure, but I'd conclude the same as Charlo.
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#1892
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Thanks Charlo and Brofist, I was thinking along the exact same lines, but just wanted to get some input on this. Thanks a bunch guys.


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#1893
Johanhgg

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Im planning up for a 1000 p zone mortalis game (actually my first 30k-game ever). Since im inexperienced, im thinking of fielding a leviathan Dreadnought supported by some veteran squads and a gorgon termie-squad. Would people friend upon running a leviathan?

#1894
Charlo

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Im planning up for a 1000 p zone mortalis game (actually my first 30k-game ever). Since im inexperienced, im thinking of fielding a leviathan Dreadnought supported by some veteran squads and a gorgon termie-squad. Would people friend upon running a leviathan?


It depends mainly on how crazy your group goes.

Personally I'd say avoid it if possible, especially in your first game. A regular Contemptor is just fine
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#1895
Brofist

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Yeah, that's a pretty harsh list, depending on your local meta and how you run the vets.
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#1896
Johanhgg

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Thanks guys for answers! Ive done some re-thinking. 1-2 breachersquads, some legion terminators and a contemptor will do :)
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#1897
Charlo

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Thanks guys for answers! Ive done some re-thinking. 1-2 breachersquads, some legion terminators and a contemptor will do :)


Run the Zone Mortalis rite of war with that. Then the termies can teleport and the Breachers get s better invulnerable save.
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#1898
Stix

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Does only vanilla breachers get bonus or legion specific like Immortals as well?



#1899
Unknown Legionnaire

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Does only vanilla breachers get bonus or legion specific like Immortals as well?

 

Legion Breacher Squads.


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#1900
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Yep. If you run it as a ZM strike force you can probably turn one of those breacher squads into immortals smile.png
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