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Iron Hands Tactics


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#1901
Imren

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Consider getting four arms for your contemptor:

  • CCW arm
  • CCW with chainfist
  • 2x kheres assault cannons

and magnetise them. Run it with either CCW on both arms or kheres ass.cannons on both arms. Consider magnetising the palm weapons and use flamers or plasma blasters in ZM games. Its better not to mix weapons loadouts on contemptors. Better running both arms as guns or both arms CCW respectively.



#1902
okonomiyakimarine

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Considering a Zone Mortalis force with a fluffy and rule-of-cool approach. Is it correct that with the ZM Combatant Force Organization I may choose to run a squad of Immortals with the Company of Bitter Iron ROW as the single Troop-choice?

 

So what I want to run really is Charger-Immortals and a Culverin HSS. If my interpretation of the rules is correct, all I need to add to run these two squads a a basis is a Master of the legion (i.e. a Praetor with a master crafted paragon Blade or something) to access CoBI as RoW.

 

Both units are expensive, so I don't think it can be done with some nice little extras for under 1000 pts total. Let's put 1250 as the limit here and see how it goes. 

 

Staying with the angry post-istvaan theme I might add a minimum squad of veterans with Combi and Power Weapons (S with Artificer, Cyber-familiar, Power Fist) in the Elite Slot and run them with the main HQ.

 

Now looking at automata… Praevian with one Castellan or two Vorax?

 

So, here's my questions, iron handed fraters:

1. is this legal and fluffy (post-istvaan)?

2. What are good Master of the Legion options? Shadrak Meduson is expensive, what would he bring? Rather have custom Praetor?

3. What are better alternatives to the small power weapon Veteran squad?

4. What automata to include? Can I outflank the Vorax while they are part of the Praevian 'as a unit'?


Edited by okonomiyakimarine, 14 July 2019 - 02:13 PM.


#1903
Unknown Legionnaire

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1. Perfectly legal. Though I would always make sure to have 1 troops choice as well as 1 elites choice in my ZM force, so I could potentially double a both the attacker or defender.

 

2. In games of this size (1.000 or 1.250 pts.) I'd opt for a Delegatus as my HQ choice. Cheap and efficient.

 

3. Maybe go for Legion Terminators, just in case dreadnoughts come along. Chainfists might be handy here.


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#1904
Argel Tal

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BTW with the latest Immortals price reduction do you think it made the butter iron row more viable?

I still think the head of the gorg is the way too go but maybe I'm wrong, but who can argue with an outfkanking vindocator squadron...

#1905
Imren

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BTW with the latest Immortals price reduction do you think it made the butter iron row more viable?

I still think the head of the gorg is the way too go but maybe I'm wrong, but who can argue with an outfkanking vindocator squadron...

 

Company of butter iron with volkite immortals goes together with warmonger like bread and butter (pun intended). You deep strike them in opponent deployment zone, enjoy the benefits and do some work with the volkites against enemy infantry same round you deep struck with them.

 

The only benefit you really get from head of gorgon in low point games such as centurion style and ZM is the blessed simulacra on dreadnoughts in general and javelins in centurion games in the instance the javelin just go a HP shaved off and not taken out directly.



#1906
Charlo

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Company of Bitter Iron is an AWESOME RoW and also a perfect excuse to take (quite possibly) the most bad-ass character; Autek Morr.

  • You no longer have a "troop tax" as your basic troops choice are AWESOME (especially with the rules update).
  • Hatred Traitors = Hated Everybody as usually events are split by faction.
  • Gaining Stubborn in the opponents deployment means you aren't getting swept easily (big in 30k).

It's also a much fluffier RoW for later heresy than Head of the Gorgon, which very much represents the Legion in it's Prime prior to Istvaan.


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#1907
Argel Tal

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Hatred seems nice but immortals doesn't look like they are very good at mele ahah it will only benefit the gorgons and other terminators which is okay but we are not world eater on berzerk assault 😆

So immortals loadaout is full volkite, cyber familiar on serg and melta bomb for example?

#1908
Charlo

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True but you can reroll hits so it makes them good! Give the sarge a combat weapon to ensure some kills.

Edited by Charlo, 03 October 2019 - 09:17 PM.


#1909
Argel Tal

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Well i can say that on marines fight 2a reroll at s4 will not do that much (and I'm a world eater player ahah) it will only benefit the sert if you equip him well

That's why I still think the hotg is still the best option:hard to compete with an outfkanking vindocator squadron haha

And it's too bad that it doesn't give you access to a better way to be in the enemy dz. Apart from using kharybdis, warmonger and spartan

But yes from a thematic perspective I totally get it! I just miss one bonus related mainly to the immortals that could make them a bit better, I don't know like some revive mechanics or some weird weapons

#1910
StruManChu

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Sort of coming off the back of the current discussion...

 

I'm currently trying to sort out an Orbital Assault list featuring our beloved Mor, a big mob of Jetbikes and a Kharybdis with 15-20 Immortals in it, all/mostly armed with Volkites.

 

Mor can Deep Strike if he's in a unit of Terminators as per the OA RoW, Jetbikes can Deep Strike because they're jetbikes, and everything else will be in pods.

 

Yes, I'm doing a stupid thing of running no tanks at all in an IH list. Have at me :D

 

However, I love the 30k big tactical squad, which doesn't fit in this list short of a flyer or another Kharybdis, which I don't want. Does a big Tactical squad in a Storm Eagle fit as a late game objective grabber, or am I better off putting that extra ~150 points into something else?

 

Working List at present looks like - 

 

Autek Mor & Terminator Command Squad (Chainfists and Combi-meltas to taste)

 

5 Gorgon Terminators (Couple of Chainfists and a Graviton Gun because IH)

 

15-20 Volkite Immortals in a Kharybdis with an Apothecary for sweet, sweet 4+ FNP

 

1 x 20 man Tactical Squad in a Storm Eagle

 

1 x 10 man Tactical Squad in an Anvillus DP

 

1 x 5-10 man TSS of some kind in an Anvillus DP

 

6/7 Jetbikes with heavy weapons to taste

 

Xiphon

 

Fire Raptor(s) - I have two of these, both with IH icons stuck on from a previous army, but don't need to use both.

 

Having actually written this out rather than having it in my head, it looks like this is a little more of an Air-Cav list than a straight OA list. That, and I think I might be bringing too many cool toys and not enough substance, although the above does give me ~50+ dudes at 3.5k. Three pods at what would be about 3.5k is probably a bit jammy too. :D

 

Any thoughts or advice on this? Does it even work at all?


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#1911
Imren

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Instead of waiting for them to come in turn 3-4 on the objective you want to grab, for less points, switch out the storm eagle for a warmonger and an apothecary to join the 20x tactical squad and deep strike them turn one on top of an objective you want to keep, that's a lot of effectively T5 bodies against shooting early game. They will be nut to crack among others and give the enemy some target saturation.

 

20x tacticals is kind of overkill to fly in late game as they have more bodies than needed to endure fighting for a couple of turns. If you deep strike them early game then you have the option to use them as additional troops choice to secure objectives early to collect VPs in objective missions.



#1912
Cadmus Tyro

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Not quite sure how you would get 4+ FNP by attaching an apothecary to the immortals?

Also, putting tacticals and TSS in an anvillus pod is a real waste of points. I would be putting that ten man tactical squad in a standard 35pt pod and bringing them in on the second wave

Gorgons and Auteks retinue on the other hand, would quite enjoy a ride in an anvillus pod.....
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#1913
StruManChu

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Instead of waiting for them to come in turn 3-4 on the objective you want to grab, for less points, switch out the storm eagle for a warmonger and an apothecary to join the 20x tactical squad and deep strike them turn one on top of an objective you want to keep, that's a lot of effectively T5 bodies against shooting early game. They will be nut to crack among others and give the enemy some target saturation.

 

20x tacticals is kind of overkill to fly in late game as they have more bodies than needed to endure fighting for a couple of turns. If you deep strike them early game then you have the option to use them as additional troops choice to secure objectives early to collect VPs in objective missions.

 

That's not a bad shout. I guess there's not much more the Storm Eagle could do late game that can't already be done by something else on the table (should everything survive that long).

 

And I guess it's one less flyer. I'm not trying to bring a WAAC list by any means, I just like the idea of Air Cavalry in a legion force. A bunch of guys screaming down from orbit in various 'aircraft' is cooooool, but if people aren't prepared with AA, then it wouldn't be a particularly fun game.

 

 

Not quite sure how you would get 4+ FNP by attaching an apothecary to the immortals?

Also, putting tacticals and TSS in an anvillus pod is a real waste of points. I would be putting that ten man tactical squad in a standard 35pt pod and bringing them in on the second wave

Gorgons and Auteks retinue on the other hand, would quite enjoy a ride in an anvillus pod.....

 

Don't Immortals have 5+ FNP natively as of the February FAQ, which then stacks with the 6+ from the Apothecary? Or does FNP not stack like that?

 

The reason for the Anvillus pods on the boring squads is actually to save points. If I run the Termies in pods, which I don't need to do because I can just teleport them, I need to pay 70 points for standard ones for the boring bois, which obviously eats in to the rest of the list. If I just teleport them though, it frees up precious points for things like Combi-weapons and Chainfists etc.


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#1914
Cadmus Tyro

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As far as I’m aware FNP does not stack.

Anvillus pods are dreadclaws, which cost 115pts. Standard pods cost 35 points. There are a number of benefits putting your terminators in an anvillus dreadclaw:

1) you can guarantee they arrive turn 1 and therefore they have a strong chance of getting into CC turn 2.

2) it’s a AV12 protective shell around the squad (which can jink). You can’t charge the turn you deep strike, so basically you have to endure a turn of shooting, and you will be poorly spaced...

3) the deep strike is more accurate, you get the benefits of the pod guidance rule and you can then turbo boost the pod into position.

So, yes you can DS your terminators, but they will be more effective charging out of an anvillus.

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#1915
Stix

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Hey!
Does anyone have any experience with fielding assault squads or destroyers? They seem pretty ok in CoBI

#1916
Argel Tal

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They should be fielded with mele oriented legions otherwise not worth it imo

 

Especially as IH the hardened armor make them even slower + moral test for run and sweeping advance

Better get more land raiders if you wanna be effective otherwise rule of cool is unbroken but don't expect high performance from them IMO :)



#1917
Stix

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Thanks! So hate from RoW does not help them that much?

#1918
Charlo

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So Assault Squads are okay, CoBI giving them Hatred is actually a very nice melee boost and maxes out their hidden power weapons. Inviolate Armour means they can footslog rather well too.

Destroyers are similar but obviously more shooty and not troops. But again I'm sure they'd be decent

#1919
Cadmus Tyro

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Hmm interesting concept, I’m thinking you might struggle to get your assault marines into the enemy deployment to benefit from the rule. I would have thought in an IH list your assault marines would be taking more of a “counter assault” role, ie hiding behind your main line and intercepting assault units etc.

Destroyers on the other hand, are a more interesting proposition. Counter attack, melta bombs and rad grenades, put them in a Termite and arrive in the backfield. Add a kharbydis full of immortals and a character or two with cataphractii, chainfists etc....

Edited by Cadmus Tyro, 06 December 2019 - 06:31 PM.

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#1920
Stix

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Is it possible to make heavy support squad with heavy bolters work in any decent way? It is such a cool, iconic weapon.


Edited by Stix, 05 January 2020 - 01:46 AM.


#1921
Brofist

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Quantity has its own quality, so they do have a place- mass hits and wounds on mooks with 4+ saves. They are pretty decent against every non marine army, though culvrins are probably better in some situations.

 

Other legions do it better, but best option is to take as many as you can while keeping them cheap. A fortification with an ammo dump, master of signal, or the new master crafting consul can work too... but strictly speaking they won't be as good as spending those points on more HB shots.


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#1922
Irate Khornate

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So I've recently gotten 3 kits of the plastic Cataphractii Terminators, and was wondering what would be a good build for them. Im contemplating using them for both 40k and 30k and was planning on building them Power Fist and Combi Bolter with Land Raider dedicated transports. Is this an ok idea? Or am I messing up somewhere?

#1923
Imren

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Combibolter and powerfist is good options that work in borht games, however, you would like to magnetise the combibolter for combimelta/combplasma options in 30k, and add in a couple of chainsfists for each 5 man squad.

 

In 30k deep striking in cataphractii is quite useful when they are armed with combimelta to deal with certain vehicles and with combiplasma in centurion games.


Edited by Imren, 24 January 2020 - 04:52 PM.


#1924
Stix

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I need an advice, hopefully some wise person in here can help me🙂 I am soon gonna start to play, mostly around 1,5k ZM and Centurion. Because of ban on tanks in both I am planning to run CoBI RoW. In my list I have one tac squad, 10 Choommortals, 5 fisting Gorgons and boxnought with flamestorm cannon and ccw. I currently got my hands on 10 beautiful resin mkiv marines and I don't know what should I do with them. First, I would like to make use of hatred from CoBI maybe not exclusivly CC unit but something better then vanilla tac squad. I also realised that I love classic look of chainsword and pistol 😁 I was thinking of putting them together with CS and BP and glue BG to the backpacks. That way I could use them as Veterans, Tacs with extra ccw and assaults if I decide to magnetize backpacks. Which of them would be the best? Or maybe should I abandon that idea and try makeing some support squads? Problem with support squads is that when I will move to bigger points and go for HotG RoW I would like to use those minis as my second obligatory troop (as I am gonna lose Immortals from that spot). So what should I do? 😃

(Oh, on top of that I am planning to get squad of 5 destroyers anyway)

#1925
Imren

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I'm in almost the exact same situation as you! I have 10x Gorgons, 10x Immortals and a 10x IH MkIII tactical squad (The FW IH custom made models: https://www.forgewor...ion-MKIII-Squad ) that sits on the shelf at home waiting to be built as my 1500p  loyalist ZM force. I don't plan to expand this army, just keep it small for ZM and perhaps Centurion.

 

 

So if this was 40k I would suggest to you to do what feels best and what looks good as per your taste and just disregard the rules since 40k rules/editions change almost as often as the weather.

 

However, in 30k the rules set seems more conservative, and less prone to change so you might want to take the rules into account.

 

In ZM games you can play without tactical squads, but in centurion and later on in regular games on a "open" board" you will most likely need tactical squads.

 

IH benefit from NOT being in close combat since then they get their effective +1T (reduced strength on incoming fire) so in your case, I'd model them with regular bolters and the chainswords either drawn in had or "holstered" maybe some I'd model with close combat knifes instead.

 

 

If you make tacticals out of them you will have use of them in any type of game.

 

Another option, if you plan to keep your IH army small and use them only for ZM and Centurion games and you feel like making a heavy support squad out of them then I'd strongly advice you to make heavy flamer squad out of them, out of two reasons:

  • In ZM games, template weapons get shred (reroll to failed to wound rolls).
  • Heavy flamers are assault weapons which gives your unit some flexibility for close combat charges.

Although you have less attacks when charging as a heavy support squad, you will have a devastating shooting attack with the heavy flamers same turn as you charge! That reroll failed to wound rolls. So heavy flamers are ace in ZM (Especially DG ones since they already have shred they gain +1S).

 

Also since you get close and personal whith the heavy flamers, you run the risk of getting charged, with the Wall of Death rule you will get D3 hits per flamer in the squad against the successfully charging enemy unit 10x D3 hits is very good as an overwatch fire. So they are good charge deterrents that force the charging opponent to roll a bunch of wound rolls when they charge.

 

So in your situation, I'd get the FW heavy flamer kit and make that squad into a heavy flamer support squad. Since they are assault weapons you get no impairment moving from regular flamers to heavy flamers!


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