[HH1.0] Salamanders Tactics

[Lord Asvaldir]

The sergeant can take a combi melta/flamer/plasma but yes that's it. 

 

One thing to keep in mind, you can always use tacticals as veterans or just standard tacticals. All you need to make a vet squad is a few marines with special weapons. 

[Memento Of Prospero]

They do not. Their lot in life is the ability to grow to 20 man strong and unleash the fury of the legion. In large numbers, they are great bodies to hold backfield objectives. In small numbers in rhinos, than can zip upfield and do objective grabs.

 

As far as Support Squad weapon choice, stay away from Volkite Calivers. They are halfway inbetween Volkite Chargers (which are assault, great for firing coming out of a transport or on the move) and Culverins (better range and rate of fire) and cannot do neither of those things well. So pick either of those. Flamers are pretty cool at S5.

 

Plasma guns are a top choice for a support squad, as they deal with just about anything barring AV 13+ very well. With Custodes on the rise, they will become a staple in the legion toolbox.

 

You could also build some special weapons, to enable you to use your tactical marines as vétérans should you feel the need to field them. A squad of Seekers is also a cool choice.

 

Lastly, if you want to go heavy support I would opt for heavy flamers or volkite culverins if you need more anti infantry, or lascannons if you need to take down armour. As cool as meltas/multi-meltas are under salamander rules, armoured ceramite is too prevalent in the game.

 

 

I would invest in armoured transport for your troops, rhinos with multi-meltas are ace for mobility and light anti-tank threat.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Wolf_Pack

[Master Ciaphas]

Hail!

 

Ah, great answers. Cheers! I think then, that based off the advice here, I will opt for the following:

 

10 MkIII Veteran Squad w. as many heavy flamers as I can fit, a sergeant w.  combi-flamer/power weapon and perhaps a combi-flamer or two on the others. As some point, a Rhino too.

5 MkIV Tactical Support Squad w. 5 plasma guns

5 MkIV Tactical Marines w. Nuncio-Vox to bulk one of my Tactical Squads to 15

10 MkIII Devastator Squad w. Volkite Culverins (because Volkite is so very 30k)

 

Pretty sure that the above will look very...swag :-D

 

Kind regards,

Master Ciaphas

[foamy248]

What do we think about the viability of terminator-only lists? Not many models, large points-expensive transports (e.g. land raiders, spartans, the big drop-pods)? What would a generic non legion-specific list (with P'sC or PotL Right of Wars) look like? 

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Double Spartan lists are viable. They need hard countering to be neutralisdd really.

[Charlo]

You can master craft all of your terminator combi Melta and make your tanks immune easily so it's pretty rad.

[God-Potato of Mankind]

Tac tax of 310 for this to get the shiny bonuses of CoF:

 

Kitted out Hammerpraetor

 

2x Tac - barebone, nada

 

1x Cataphractii hammernators/chainfists

 

1x Cataphractii combimelty with 4 chainfists 4 powerfists two power axes

 

2x Spartan - AC, FS, pintle multimelty, heavy flamers

 

1x Proteus - Triple las - pintle multi-melt - AC - EAW

 

Vulkette - Command Squad - 3 Chosen with combat shields and hand flamers

 

Tactic - ram terminators down enemy throats. Scout up Proteus and smash with Vulky - use command squad as ablative wounds 2+ 5++ and S4 wall of death overwatch to deter charges

 

3k. Just. Even more efficient without CoF.

 

I would run it as PoTl:

 

Remove tacs and replace with:

 

5 man Pyroclast team with fist

 

Swap power axes on Terminators for fists

 

Swap Praetor for Terminator Hammerchaplain

 

Acquire: 3x Heavy flamer jetbikes, 2x Javelins with Multimelty and HKs.

 

Much more flexible but consider dozer blades on the Spartans.

Edited April 30, 2017 by The God-Potato of Mankind

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

So facing TS in ZM next week at 1750, any advice, atm I'm thinking our chaplain character, cattaphracti librarian and primus medicae, 2 15 strong tactical squads, 10 men flamer squad and 10 stong melta gun squad with a couple of dreads and apothecaries, will try and figure a list out tomorrow after work.

[Sulemain]

Does anyone else thing the Salamanders upgrades to flamer weapons and melta weapons is a little underpowerered compared to say, the DG's upgrades to all flame weapons, or the IF's upgraded BS with bolt weapons? 

[BattleBrotherJohn]

As a new Salamander player I am looking for some guidance/suggestions for using Cassian Dracos.

What is/are the most useful RoW to use with this character ?

Actually this leads to a second question - can I take RoW with Cassian Dracos as HQ ?  I don't think he has Master of the Legion does he ( dont have my book to hand to check this ).

[Caillum]

No, Cassian Dracos doesn't have Master of the Legion. He can be the Warlord, but only if he's the solitary HQ choice. If you take a Praetor, Delegatus, Nomus Rhy'tan or Vulkan then they can be the Warlord though, and they all have MotL so they unlock Rites of War. :)

 

I use him in an Ebon Drake Shattered Legions list (though it's predominantly Salamanders). He is a beast, even without a save of any kind. Get a Dreadclaw for him, as you want a safe delivery system. If you find yourself accidentally out of position, or out of range for shooting/assault, POP YOUR SMOKE LAUNCHERS - they might just save his bacon!

 

Rites of War are useful, but will always focus your army at the detriment of versatility:

- "The Covenant of Fire" is very cool, and Cassian will actually benefit from the defensive buffs, but the lack of Deep Strike can be a massive negative, especially where he is concerned.

- "The Awakening Fire" has a pretty high cost of entry (and the Librarian bonus is completely pointless), so I would avoid it most of the time. Infantry with Fear is something though.

- "After Isstvan" is for Shattered Legions, but you can focus on the Salamanders if you choose to. You get Vets as non-compulsory Troops, but need to field more of them than Tactical Marines (ie. you should take Raven Guard Assault Marines and/or Iron Hands Breachers for your Compulsory Troops). Hatred (Traitor Legions) is cool, as most games are Loyalist vs Traitors, and Sniper Vets are great with flamer weapons.

- "Orbital Assault" is pretty solid, provided you build the list right. It's normal to have a high attrition rate when running it, but you want to operate within that dangerous flamer range anyway. Just make sure you have something starting on the board that can survive Turn 1 firepower.

- "Pride of the Legion" works. The aforementioned Sniper Vets and Firedrakes as Troops? Awesome. Vulkan still available? Check. Just balance the units between Legiones Astartes and non-Legiones Astartes, and don't lose all your Troops.

 

The rest range from awful ("Fury of the Ancients" is a trap!) to just ok ("Drop Assault Vanguard" doesn't really help Salamanders). But with all things Heresy, your best counsel is your own. What theme are you attracted to? Is it Cassian Dracos & Vulkan teaming up to smash face late-Heresy? Then go for it! :)

[BattleBrotherJohn]

Thanks for the tips Caillum.

[Hellrender]

Necroing this thread once again.

 

What is the consensus on pyroclasts these days? Read the first 8 pages which were quite positive. I was thinking about 5-10 in a proteus.

 

Also, forgelord with radgrenades or primus medicea in a spartan with fire drakes and preator/vulkan?

 

The forgelord means we can instant death T5 units like bikers, the medicea allows us to survive longer.

 

Last, what do we think about a contempor ?

[Charlo]

Necroing this thread once again.

 

What is the consensus on pyroclasts these days? Read the first 8 pages which were quite positive. I was thinking about 5-10 in a proteus.

 

Also, forgelord with radgrenades or primus medicea in a spartan with fire drakes and preator/vulkan?

 

The forgelord means we can instant death T5 units like bikers, the medicea allows us to survive longer.

 

Last, what do we think about a contempor ?

 

Pyros are pretty cool, just keep them out of combat. They should be used in tamden with a combat unit so they don't get borked.

 

Really, there aren't that many T5 units out there you need to Instant Death, not to mention bikes will probably dictate where the fight is. I'd go for the Primus Medicae as opposed to a Forgelord for that sweet, sweet FNP on top of a 3++.

 

I'm almost against putting Vulkan in with Drakes, he's so hardy and killy that it seems worth spreading him out among your forces. It's only really Lascannons and poison that hurt him in the ranged department.

 

Contemptors are good. If you are running the Covenant of Fire take a Multi-Melta and Meltagun in the fist for that 2+ to hit with a re-roll goodness.

[Hellrender]

Do you really think a salamanders dread with multi melta, chainfist and meltagun is worth it? Even if in Covenant of Fire, i'm not sure..  It is just 2 shots, even with high accuracy, i'm just not sure.. it seems so lacklustre (but then all weapons for the contemptor seem... lacking).

 

Would you say Pyro's with a preator in a proteus is a decent idea? The preator can function as counter assault, while the pyro's provide 10*D3 overwatch hits :)

[Charlo]

Do you really think a salamanders dread with multi melta, chainfist and meltagun is worth it? Even if in Covenant of Fire, i'm not sure..  It is just 2 shots, even with high accuracy, i'm just not sure.. it seems so lacklustre (but then all weapons for the contemptor seem... lacking).

 

Would you say Pyro's with a preator in a proteus is a decent idea? The preator can function as counter assault, while the pyro's provide 10*D3 overwatch hits

 

It might be worth it, it might not! You get the most accurate Melta in the business so why not use it ;)

 

Yeah not a bad shout by any means on the Preator, though you want to ensure he's not stuck fighting chaff when he has the potential to be murdering big stuff. With Salamanders lacking the ability to sweeping advance, combats are grinding affairs.

[Hellrender]

The Calth dread comes armed that way, so i might aswell give it a go :)

 

 

What do you all think about transport options for Pyroclasts? 

 

1) Stealing a rhino from a different squad: Wouldn't this mean they cant be in the rhino at start, thus i waste time/movement to get in the rhino?

2) Land Raider Proteus: Gets scout and additional weapons. To me this seems quite good, scooting up 12'' early on to get in flamer range.

3) Land Raider Phobos: Gets assault vehicle as its perk, which isn't needed. But plastic kit means more money for other FW goodies.

4) Land Raider Achillies: Cheaper in RL cash than the proteus, a lot more survivable (and would get a 5+ save against heat based weapon in addition). I see this thing as a tank that drives straight into enemy lines at full speed, machin spiriting its quad mortar. Once there it unloads its cargo, using the multi meltas and mortar to get rid of transports, which the pyro's can flame.

 

 

No drop pods, as i am running CoF.

 

Am i far off with my observations? What are your favorites?

 

Mind you i also plan on taking a spartan with firedrakes and praetor/vulkan in 2500 pts and higher. In sub 2k, i think i would skip the firedrakes, or atleast the spartan + praetor combo.

[Charlo]

Achilles would be the tip top choice for maximum coolness.

 

But a Proteus with scout is pretty darn nice too.

[Hellrender]

What do you think of 10 tactical support marines with flamers (maybe vs vokite chargers), or a squad of heavy weapon support with 10 heavy flamers?

Not sure how effective they are without prometheum relay lines :)

[Charlo]

Support squad with normal flamers are great, being S5.

 

Not sure heavies are worth a Heavy Support slot outside of Zone Mortalis though.

[Hellrender]

And on top of that they do lose out on Implacable advance... But.. Flamers and Volkite Chargers are the same price. The chargers get double the range, same strenght and ap, but only 2 shots, where as the flamer is likely to get 3 when in range? Not to mention overwatch.

 

Unrelated to that, I've build a list i'm quite happy with, but i feel i miss something. Something that can strip hull points reliably, as most of my anti tank relies on explode results atm. Other than the deredeo and sicaran battle tank, what are other options that can reliably strip Hull points? 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Hellrender

[LtDan]

Grav. Or shatter shell mortars

[Hellrender]

Land Speeders with grav that can't deep strike any good? I rather avoid rapiers :P

[Charlo]

Deep Striking them is tough anyway due to size and squadron rules. They're a great distraction unit while also being rather deadly.

 

You could go for Javelins if not with missiles/ Las/ MM etc as they outflank to side armour.

[Hellrender]

Hmm.. Not the biggest fan of land speeders, but will keep them in mind. For a similar price point (RL cash), the deredeo isnt that far off a javelin. Which also made me think about the Arcus.

 

I have atm no anti air in my list. So the deredeo and arcus fill a niche i haven't filled. On top of that, my anti TEQ and MEQ exists of lascannons, multi meltas and Thunder hammers (firedrakes), and some pyroclasts. So the arcus has a leg up there.

 

What do you think of the Arcus vs the Deredeo? The deredeo is 30ish points cheaper, has 2+ re-rollable, the aiolos Missile launcher, and sunder on its S8 weapons. But ap 4.

 

The arcus loses on 2+ re-rollable, as he only hits on 3+. He has no sunder, so it's harder to pen. But having AP 2 has a chance of exploding if you do pen. And IF you get the pen, the chance for an explode aren't even that low (about 50%). However, he has weaker side guns, even though they have 9-12 shots, it adds. 

 

So, in my mind: 

 

Deredeo: Slow, but very reliable hull point stripper for anything, wether its flying or not.

Arcus: Fast, more versatile anti anything, but relies more on penetrating armour.

 

(in my dice rolling experiments, i find that against AV 13+, the deredeo wins out. Against Av 12 or lower, and most MEQ/TEQ, the Arcus wins).

What do you think?