IHF's attempt at focus (updated 21/1)

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

This thread is an attempt to keep me motivated as I try and complete some lineart and general sketches based around my DIY chapter, the Persecutors (link to IA in my sig), to add to their IA and maintain enthusiasm as I continually re-write sections (I usually leave months in between editing existing portions) so that I might finally be able to get it to a standard I'm pleased with.

Edit:

My next project will be a 30k Iron Hands Legionary, with probably only 1 update between this mock-up & completion (here's the thread with background)

Edit: the completed tactical:

Update: the second candidate for completion, a tactical from the same chapter, preparing to execute a heretic psyker:

Edit: the completed High Chaplain:

So, this guy is the first contender for completion:

This fellah is the current High Chaplain of the Persecutors, with relic cataphractii plate, and an extra speshul crozius (for up to 10x more smiting!)

The theme with him is a very baroque, gothic feel (like some of the older SM stuff) - ideally to try and tie him in with the depictions of the Sisters of Battle / Inquisition with whom the Chapter has an......unorthodox relationship. That means: spikes, chains, braziers, skulls, purity seals etc.

Believe it or not, this existed as just the lower left leg for almost a year, hence why I need this thread to try and push it to completion. The pose is basically finished, I'm trying to tackle the proportion issues I had with this guy:

Although I'm unsure on whether the torso / shoulders are too large in comparison to his legs?

Maybe correcting the size of his helmet will help, but its kinda had to judge with terminator armour

This is the guy's concept sketch, hopefully refelective of the final appearance:

Anyway, any C&C you have would be massively appreciated - unfortunately, with the way I do my lineart, once I get to the detailing stage, any issues are kinda hard to rectify, so finding out earlier is far better - also, feedback may help me get off my backside and finish this fella - I might even add a blurb about his character

If you have any queries about the chapter, feel free to put them in my thread in Liber Astartes

Anyhow, thanks for looking

Edit: swapped the pic for the latest mock-up of the torso, pretty much sorted the proportion issues

2nd Edit: final torso mock-up, with altered persepective

[JeffTibbetts]

Alright! Good to see you starting this thread. One thing to think about moving forward is that is seems like the torsos are a bit long. You're seeing it the shoulders, but it's actually in the abdomen from what it looks like to me. With your sketchy style, I would legit use one of those wooden moquettes in the very earliest stages to get the body in roughly the right areas before you start adding battle plate, and then details. You obviously have a strong handle on the armor and details themselves. Sort out the proportions and you're golden. 

[Firepower]

The top sketch is off to a pretty good start. You have the objects blocked out to a pretty convincing shape, especially from the waist up, so the rest is detail, more or less. You seem to have a solid handle on that judging by his leg. The hood/cowl thing above his helmet is oddly 2 dimensional, though.

I give mad props to actually drawing individual chain links for the whole loin-sash thingy on the second guy. His shoulders look as though they're bolted on to his torso, judging by the lack of a gap between them. But Space Marine pauldrons are silly, impossible things anyway. His torso seems a tad long, too.

That's all I got. More, please

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Alright! Good to see you starting this thread. One thing to think about moving forward is that is seems like the torsos are a bit long. You're seeing it the shoulders, but it's actually in the abdomen from what it looks like to me. With your sketchy style, I would legit use one of those wooden moquettes in the very earliest stages to get the body in roughly the right areas before you start adding battle plate, and then details. You obviously have a strong handle on the armor and details themselves. Sort out the proportions and you're golden.

I've edited the 1st post to show the updated torso - basically I corrected the size using reference materials for cataphractii plate (the original was actually drawn during a blackout so I had no access to the web ) that said, I do think I need to reposition his right arm - by having his forearm projecting forward horizontally towards the viewer, with the crozius held at a right angle to this, it should give a much better impression of motion, which is what I'm trying to achieve - right now, he looks kinda like he's just holding it for funzies. In terms of the moquette idea, I'm usually fine with proportion - of the normal human form, which is what most of my sketches cover - the only issue is, astartes don't really conform to normal proportions - especially terminators (the shoulders are basically level with the cranium ) this being my second attempt at lineart, I think from now on I'll start by drawing the musculature of the astartes underneath, and build over it like you suggest. The issues I've had with these guys is how disjointed work on them has been - the first one started out as a shoulder pad, with all the other parts done completely seperate - not a great idea however, apart from the arm I think this guy is pretty much sorted in terms of planning - for the feedback

The top sketch is off to a pretty good start. You have the objects blocked out to a pretty convincing shape, especially from the waist up, so the rest is detail, more or less. You seem to have a solid handle on that judging by his leg. The hood/cowl thing above his helmet is oddly 2 dimensional, though.

I give mad props to actually drawing individual chain links for the whole loin-sash thingy on the second guy. His shoulders look as though they're bolted on to his torso, judging by the lack of a gap between them. But Space Marine pauldrons are silly, impossible things anyway. His torso seems a tad long, too.

That's all I got. More, please

Haha, thanks - drawing in all the links was such a massive pain in the a** - but I liked the idea, so Icouldn't not do it. To be honest, the IH was my first ever attempt at lineart, and came out...less than satisfactory, (head is too high, bionic eye is too far out, abdomen's too long, shoulders are too close together, thighs are too short, waist is too thin, etc. - and there's a reason its cropped off at the knees ) but y'know, practice n' all that.

Cos you requested more stuff: just for you :P

A little doodle of some random sarge whilst I was bored (WIP):

Plus, the concept of my next (planned) lineart:

Cheers fo the feedback

[Firepower]

First thing that pops out at me with the head is his eyes. Eyes are spheres, which extend out of the head, rather than sitting flat against the surface. It's important to keep this in mind when drawing the face at an angle. Here is a very crude demonstration:

Notice that you don't see both corners of the eyes, as you would directly facing someone. If you look at ancient Egyptian artwork, it's interesting to note that all of the faces are in profile, but the eyes are stylized to look as though they are facing directly forward, like the ones you've drawn there. Not entirely relevant, just a neat art history lesson

The iris is also an almost flat shape on the sphere's surface (it actually bulges out from the sphere ever so slightly), so it is not a perfect circle unless directly facing the viewer, as shown in the bottom right corner.

Faces are something that can be very hard to draw without learning off of models (or just people you can convince to hold still for 5 minutes). You can of course find plenty of artist guides in books and online that follow the same general formula of starting with a sphere, drawing a center line, etc., but it's hard to truly comprehend it in the 3rd dimension without a working model. For instance, even once you get the shape of the eye right, you have to be able to comprehend how the area around the eye will form the shape of its setting, by position and angle of the nose, cheek and brow. Bit of a really, seeing as screwing up any one of those things can ruin the whole look.

On a different note, it's difficult to put into practice (especially with line art) but less is more. There is almost no negative space on his face. Many things like age lines and scars look a lot better if you take the subtle, limited approach, which is also why it's a lot easier to do with shading than line art

Try going back and erasing some of the lines, or segments of the lines, a little bit at a time. The lines running from the eyes to the jawline could be broken up and reduced liberally, and he would still look just as weary and veterany. One line in particular which is totally arbitrary is the line running up the center of his brow. That wrinkle is actually very short on most faces, and when it does run that high it intersects and is shaped by the horizontal brow wrinkles, rather than creating the odd space between them as you have there.

He seems to only have one half of an ear...

Anyway, that's all nitpicking a single picture. The overall point is to demonstrate how some of the errors are demonstrating a misunderstanding of how heads are shaped. Look at all the drawing references you can find- there are plenty on google, as well as countless books, and they're almost invariably better than my little doodles. Also, whenever possible, try to draw real people. Not so much yourself though. A reflection will more than likely distort your perspective.

Most importantly, practice, practice, and when you're done, sit back, take a deep breath, and practice.

Edit- Also, I liked the original Terminator Chaplain more. He's gone all flat in this version. The original had some interesting foreshortening going on. Also, the scriptures/seals are perfectly flat planes, like cardboard rather than fluid like vellum/papyrus would be, especially hanging where it is.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

First thing that pops out at me with the head is his eyes. Eyes are spheres, which extend out of the head, rather than sitting flat against the surface. It's important to keep this in mind when drawing the face at an angle. Here is a very crude demonstration:

Notice that you don't see both corners of the eyes, as you would directly facing someone. If you look at ancient Egyptian artwork, it's interesting to note that all of the faces are in profile, but the eyes are stylized to look as though they are facing directly forward, like the ones you've drawn there. Not entirely relevant, just a neat art history lesson

The iris is also an almost flat shape on the sphere's surface (it actually bulges out from the sphere ever so slightly), so it is not a perfect circle unless directly facing the viewer, as shown in the bottom right corner.

Faces are something that can be very hard to draw without learning off of models (or just people you can convince to hold still for 5 minutes). You can of course find plenty of artist guides in books and online that follow the same general formula of starting with a sphere, drawing a center line, etc., but it's hard to truly comprehend it in the 3rd dimension without a working model. For instance, even once you get the shape of the eye right, you have to be able to comprehend how the area around the eye will form the shape of its setting, by position and angle of the nose, cheek and brow. Bit of a really, seeing as screwing up any one of those things can ruin the whole look.

On a different note, it's difficult to put into practice (especially with line art) but less is more. There is almost no negative space on his face. Many things like age lines and scars look a lot better if you take the subtle, limited approach, which is also why it's a lot easier to do with shading than line art

Try going back and erasing some of the lines, or segments of the lines, a little bit at a time. The lines running from the eyes to the jawline could be broken up and reduced liberally, and he would still look just as weary and veterany. One line in particular which is totally arbitrary is the line running up the center of his brow. That wrinkle is actually very short on most faces, and when it does run that high it intersects and is shaped by the horizontal brow wrinkles, rather than creating the odd space between them as you have there.

He seems to only have one half of an ear...

Anyway, that's all nitpicking a single picture. The overall point is to demonstrate how some of the errors are demonstrating a misunderstanding of how heads are shaped. Look at all the drawing references you can find- there are plenty on google, as well as countless books, and they're almost invariably better than my little doodles. Also, whenever possible, try to draw real people. Not so much yourself though. A reflection will more than likely distort your perspective.

Most importantly, practice, practice, and when you're done, sit back, take a deep breath, and practice.

Edit- Also, I liked the original Terminator Chaplain more. He's gone all flat in this version. The original had some interesting foreshortening going on. Also, the scriptures/seals are perfectly flat planes, like cardboard rather than fluid like vellum/papyrus would be, especially hanging where it is.

Whoa, thanks for taking the time to give all this advice man, really appreciate it.

To be honest, I doodled this guy whilst watching TV, and I noticed that the eyes were off as soon as I scanned him in. Because most of the pencil work I do is in a very sketchy style ( like the torso mock-up for the 1st chaplain post), I tend not to actually think about the structure / proportioning too much, adding lines continually until it 'feels right' - where I can then thicken particular lines to give better definition. Although this seems to work in getting scaling right etc, it doesn't look super presentable, being heavily stylized. So he's kinda a departure, and the only 40k piece I have to hand in a less sketch style.

In response to your comments, I've actually started another misc. marine, with a similar profile, to try and get the look right mainly with shading, as opposed to line work. At the moment, I'm really liking the depth - I basically started with just an outline and added heavy shading in particular areas to define the facial structure - which is a really satisfying break from all the flat surfaces of the Chaplain.

I'll try and post a WIP scan sometime tomorrow (today?).

Having saved the pic of the original chaplain torso, I can totally see what you mean in terms of foreshortening - so basically what to do:

*rotate his right pauldron forward, to project in front of the torso more, create a bigger percieved size difference between it & the other pauldron, which is rotated backwards slightly;

*adjust the crozius arm, projecting forwards towards the viewer more, almost horizontally, allowing me to angle the actual head of the crozius so that it is further away from the body (towards the viewer), boosting its size

*shorten the other arm, which helps emphasize the size of the crozius, also helps with proportion - the other arm, projecting out, may appear much smaller otherwise (in comparison)

Otherwise, I'll continue work on the other leg, and post the next torso scan (I find this process really useful to review the drawing myself, as working on it for a while tends to break up your overall perception, stops me from seeing it properly in terms of perspective, etc.)

On the seals/scriptures, I'm just gonna assume they're a kind of vellum/cloth material - I think having them flow makes it a touch more dynamic

Thanks again brother, the critique is really useful

[Firepower]

On the cloths- I was actually saying they aren't flowing as they are.  As they stand, they look like cardboard- perfectly flat surfaces regardless of rolling slightly forward/backward.  They are moving as flat planes, rather than distorting in a way to match their movements.

 

On foreshortening, it's hard to remember how it looked exactly in the previous pic, but the forward arm was looking much more...forward, if memory serves.

 

On how to go about it, you don't have to go all out.  Extreme foreshortening is really, really hard, but you don't have to in order to make it look good.  For instance, as it stands his right (viewer left) shoulder is more or less fine.  It's his right arm which went suddenly 2-dimensional, especially compared to the maul.  On the left arm, it is actually slightly larger than the right, as it stands..and a bit longer, actually :lol:  

 

There should be a difference, but again, you really don't have to make it a major difference.  Foreshortening grows more extreme as something gets closer to the viewer.  So, if he's meant to be right in the viewer's face, that forward arm should be huge compared to the right, while if he is further away the difference between the two arms becomes much more subtle.  The former is much harder to do than the latter.  So like with the face, less is more :)

[The_Chaplain]

Your artwork is off to a good start brother, have any plans for models?  Your cataphractii chaplain looks very promising!

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Second Edit of the High Chaplain is up on the 1st post

@Firepower:

*On the seals/scriptures issue, I've added a little detail to the loincloth, its not super convincing, but I'm concerned about whether I'll get away with overhauling the entire thing, as the lines are pretty heavy - and once its covered in scriptures, the flowing issue may be less noticeable

*As well as outlining the basic structure of the remaining leg, I've tried to combine the best features of the former & latter mock-ups on this version, to try and re-create that foreshortening, which boils down to:

- enlarging his right pauldron

- having his left arm projecting forwards more, with the crozius at an altered angle to bring it better into the foreground

- altering the size, length and angle of his other arm, to bring it in line with the altered persepective

*Plus, here's that 25 min experiment with facial shading I mentioned - although I quite enjoyed the little I did, so I might finish it once the TDA chaplain is outof the way

Thanks again for all the tips brother, the foreshortening stuff especially was super useful :D

@The_Chaplain:

*Thanks man, but alas, no plans for any models - I haven't done any miniature work in 3-4 years, and with me finding the most enjoyable part of painting freehand stuff, I decided to keep any 40k themed stuff I did in a 2D medium, because the skills are somewhat more transferable to other work - all my minis are in storage, most likely awaiting the inevitable strip & ebay

[The_Chaplain]

 

@The_Chaplain: *Thanks man, but alas, no plans for any models - I haven't done any miniature work in 3-4 years, and with me finding the most enjoyable part of painting freehand stuff, I decided to keep any 40k themed stuff I did in a 2D medium, because the skills are somewhat more transferable to other work - all my minis are in storage, most likely awaiting the inevitable strip & ebay

 

It's all good brother- one of the nice things about this hobby is that you can use different mediums to develop an army; and at the end of the day artwork is a :cuss of a lot cheaper than models anyway!

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Legs are finished on the High Chaplain, next up will be his left arm & the head of the Crozius:

Thanks for Looking

[JeffTibbetts]

Wow. That leg is awesome. I love how the army is telling me a story with the details. Keep going! I want to read what it has to tell me. 

[Firepower]

Looks pretty solid, over all.  Unfortunately the scriptures still come off as being made of cardboard, but that ship has sailed.  

 

Something that is largely a style choice, but still bugs me: that armor is really thin.  Terminator armor is space age metal awesomeness, but you're still talking about over an inch of metal.  When you get to the edges though, this guy's armor comes across as being about as thick as sheet metal.

 

Of course, going for more accurate thickness does come with some serious issues.  Mainly, it reduces the mobility of the character, so you have to be real good at cheating (like you generally have to with Space Marine pauldrons).

 

Anywho, the detail work is coming along nicely.  Keep at it.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

The head of the crozius is finished, as well as his left arm - I've also started work on the upper torso, although the helmet needs editing: the teeth are too wide, and I need to remover the inner vetical contours on the forehead, as well as detailing the brow ridge and adding a band of script.

Looks pretty solid, over all. Unfortunately the scriptures still come off as being made of cardboard, but that ship has sailed.

Something that is largely a style choice, but still bugs me: that armor is really thin. Terminator armor is space age metal awesomeness, but you're still talking about over an inch of metal. When you get to the edges though, this guy's armor comes across as being about as thick as sheet metal.

Of course, going for more accurate thickness does come with some serious issues. Mainly, it reduces the mobility of the character, so you have to be real good at cheating (like you generally have to with Space Marine pauldrons).

Anywho, the detail work is coming along nicely. Keep at it.

I'll try and enhance the thickess of the armour at the bottom of his right leg, but I couldn't really have the plating super thick because of the more dynamic pose - namedly, theres quite a bit of overlapping armour.

Anyway, C&C is welcome as always

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Right, next update: sorted out helmet, edited his left pauldron, almost finished torso, detailed haft of crozius

Thanks fer lookin'

[Olis]

Real nice work so far.

The pose is basically finished, I'm trying to tackle the proportion issues I had with this guy:

Although I'm unsure on whether the torso / shoulders are too large in comparison to his legs?
Maybe correcting the size of his helmet will help, but its kinda had to judge with terminator armour

To me, it looks like the waist is too thin. Specifically the bit where the belt is. I think there should be a little more to his midriff than what there appears to be atm. However, altering that will mean broadening his shoulders, too. Imho, of course. The rest of it looks great, though (and that terminator is coming along nicely).

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Right, been a while since a progress update, so here goes:

Pretty much finished his right pauldron, some clean up work to do in order to remove excessive grime (alas, the curse of being left-handed) - completely re-did the helmet, which I'm now satisfied with - steered more towards real skulls rather than GW chaplain artwork - all I really need to do now is finish off his right arm and attempt the effigy on his back

@JeffTibbets - seeing how you liked the reference to the chapter background in his right kneepad, take a look at the chained warrior bathed in fire as the hands of the dying reach towards him

@Olisredan - yeah, there are so many things wrong with that guy ( see post 4 ), but he's the only other lineart I've attempted, so I stuck him up here as an example - glad you like the chaplain anyway

Thanks for looking

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

So here he he is the (Im pretty sure....) completed High Chaplain - Im currently working on a little fluff paragraph to give him some background. With thanks to @Firepower for advice / assistance on perspective/detail.

And here's a version after messing around with the saturation:

Thanks for looking

[The_Chaplain]

Good stuff brother, that's an inspiring chaplain!

[JeffTibbetts]

I think it came out really well, over all. It was fun to watch it come together. 

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Thanks for the kind comments guys, Im pretty pleased considering he's only my 2nd lineart.

 

I've posted a thread with a little background segment in the Hall of Honour forum (linky), as I wan't to keep this one for Work in Progress stuff to keep me motivated.

On this topic, I could do with some advice: should I make the next guy one of the Chapter's captains (I have a particular one in mind) or a rank & file tactical - the second might be a bit better in terms of adding to my WIP IA article (plus I have a pretty cool pose in mind of him standing over a chaotic psyker, whose powers are failing cos he's a psychic blank), but I get to do more bling on the captain, and more bling = more fun.

 

Any thoughts?

[geektom]

Tons of amazing details! Looking forward to seeing more artwork- I have a feeling they will just keep getting better!

[JeffTibbetts]

I vote for the tactical dude for the reasons you stated. Plus, if you know the captain is coming when you're done it will motivate you to finish. Same reason you don't paint all your characters first and save three tac squads for the end.

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Well, bit of an update - I'll start work on the next fellah (a Tactical, as you suggested) tomorrow (uhh-today?), and should post up the first stages then. Sorry for the lack of updates until now, but I do have the little bit of background for this guy. Its not exactly great writing, but I did it in 25 minutes, so judge me :P

 

 

“At first it was slaughter – the cultists were psychotic, charging in waves, scrabbling over the corpses of the ones in front of them just to get to us. Frothing, jeering, I’ve never seen anything like it, not even in animals – the bloodlust made them ignore the danger, the pain of their wounds, the stench of death. Some even ran through the arcs of flamers, unblinking, charging forwards even as their bodies burned.

 

Until I killed one up close, I didn’t realise what was going on. She threw herself at me, trying to slash out my neck with a shattered blade.

 

Killing her wasn’t anything to do with my training. It was survival. Instinct. Even when she was hanging on my bayonet, I just kept firing, full auto. And then I saw her eyes.
Her face was frozen in terror – the mindless rage that had consumed her features only a moment before disappeared – replaced with true fear, and an innocence I will never forget. I started to notice the same all around me, the dead transfixed, terrified – the dying, worse. They lay, weeping, gibbering, sobbing through ruined faces, as though death was releasing them from some ruinous hold.

 

Because that was exactly what it was – witchery. Soon enough the psykers made themselves known – men torn apart from the inside, soldiers’ flesh erupting into horrific growths to tangle and snare guardsmen as the lunatics danced through the mayhem, their mindless followers still screaming bloody murder.

 

Then the Astartes came. A noise that started off as a distant rumble turned to a deafening scream as the pod hit home, launching the tattered bodies of cultists into the air before the ash grey assault ramps thudded down into the blood sodden earth.

 

The bark of bolter fire marked their emergence, swiftly clearing the landing site. They didn’t pause for a second as they swept out of the pod, heading straight into the heart of the turmoil. At first they ignored the cultists, whose paltry weapons couldn’t hope to cause damage to their monstrous power armour. For a moment I thought they might be brought down by sheer weight of numbers alone, such was the fervour with which the zealots swarmed at them.

 

But within about a meter of each Angel of Death, the hold upon the cultists seemed to fail, each staggering away, eyes wide with shock, before devolving back into bestial rage as they retreated. Each Astartes strode forth with resolute purpose, surrounded by a tight ring of calm in the sea of maniacal cultists – the calm in the eye of the storm, it seemed.

 

As their proximity to the psykers increased, the crackle of bolter fire resumed, seeking to ferret out the witches from the seething mass. The psykers quickly retaliated, the laughter of madmen ringing from their lips, even as their flesh puppets were torn asunder around them from the explosive fury of bolter rounds, launching eldritch lightning and hissing balefire from their twisted fingers.

 

Good men died around us as their foul witchery arced through the air, but the sorcery of the psykers was failing – lightning crackled harmlessly over Astartes plate, and the Space Marines emerged from fountains of warp-spawned flame untouched. Realising their doom, the witches turned from the melee, but their attempted escape was their undoing – running in the opposite direction to the frothing cultists, they became clear targets, and the continuous crackle of bolters turned to sudden barks, pinpointing the witches as they fled.

 

Each death released a swathe of heretics from the indoctrination of the cabal, sending whole sections of the enemy force fleeing back towards the hive, screaming in terror as we drove them back.

 

In five hours, our entire seven companies had managed to advance forty meters. In five minutes, a single squad of Persecutors had broken the entire enemy force in dropzone delta.”

 

- Testimony of Harakoni Warhawk Grissom, referring to the opening stages of the battle for Rannos Hive, Ontarium.

[JeffTibbetts]

I dig that fluff! I think you could ham up his confusion over the cultists' apparent weakening around the marines. After all, they fought through everything else... Why would they balk? Same with the powers failing. That's the moment he should realize that they have the power to somehow weaken the witches. Make the witches really scared at that very unexpected turn of events. Overall, I like how you built it up and the final summation that all it took was one squad.