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Black Legion Supplement Hardcover Release


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#1
malisteen

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regular verions:
m3560463a_60040102004_StdEdnBlackLegionS

special edition:
m3560468a_60040102005_LtdEdnBlackLegionS

You know, I would totally order the special edition for this, even already owning the digital release, if the rules inside weren't so half-arsed that they ended up directly contradicting the halfway decent fluff of the book, subverting any effort to bring that narrative to the tabletop.

Honestly, I'm such a brainwashed fanboy that I'm still tempted anyway. At us$50/$90 bucks, I think I can be strong, though.

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#2
Dammeron

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I must admit, it's one of my favourite publications from GW in recent years. The writing is a cut above almost any other army book or codex style product, the depths of motivation and complexity it introduces for Aba-dabba-doo-dah-don and his Black Legion quite inspiring: they are certainly a cut above the somewhat lack-lustre and frictionless "perfection" embodied by the Ultramarines, which are arguably their Imperial equivalent. The backgroud is so good and it's such a fun, engaging read...I'm very tempted by that special edition. I only hope that the background material concerning the other traitor legions is half way as developed.


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#3
Ammonius

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From what I have seen, of this I have decided to get this. The Liber Chaotica books proved that I'm willing to spend $50 on a chaos art/ fluff book.

 

If someday I decide to paint a Black Legion ally contingent to run alongside my Deprecators, then so be it.


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#4
Sith'ari

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Went for the special edition myself.

I haven't read the book so I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on all that lovely, lovely fluff!

#5
Tenebris

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THE lore is fantastic, but the rules are useless. I will buy the hardback edition as I usually buy anything Chaos related but in the end is more for the collecting and hobby rather than gameplay, as its should have been.


"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."
 
— Excerpt from the three hundred and forty-first epistle, Book of Lorgar

 

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#6
the jeske

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man , those dudes have to hate doors sized for non space marines.


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#7
daveNYC

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man , those dudes have to hate doors sized for non space marines.

 

Even Astartes sized doors would be a problem with the two feet of horns sticking out of the helmet.



#8
Immersturm

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The fluff and artwork is pretty solid. You really get the feeling that the Imperium's days are numbered. Enjoyed reading it a lot.

 

As for the rules. Chosen as troops without Abaddon is okay, but Chosen aren't really the guys you want to spam. Everyone needs to buy VotlW, might be a pain. However, some of the artifacts are very nice. Overall, nothing special crunch wise..

 

Except this: You can ally CSM with BL as battle bros. It being the same codex, it allows you 3 HQ, 4 FA and 4 HS slots. Yes, you can get 4 Heldrakes, but diminishing returns makes it not as amazing^^

 

Get a decent HQ, cultist blob (to avoid VotlW tax) to sit on home objective, for FA, get the Heldrake or Spawn (and take raptors/bikes or more Drakes with CSM codex to avoid the tax). The same with heavy support, get your predators and maulerfiends and enjoy more Oblits or Havocs in your main detachment.

Pretty good, almost mandatory, if you want to run pure CSM.


Edited by Immersturm, 25 November 2013 - 11:46 AM.


#9
the jeske

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man , those dudes have to hate doors sized for non space marines.

 

Even Astartes sized doors would be a problem with the two feet of horns sticking out of the helmet.

There is a difference between manly 3.5 ed era horns and this weedy paper thing pokers those new marines have .

Old school marine that get brick to the head , would just shake it off. this new ones would have to go to a head spike strightening saloon.


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#10
malisteen

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actually, old school chaos marines would break their necks, new school chaos marines would break their horns and not notice.

 

Also, old school chaos marine horns were pretty clearly modeled to have been deliberately put there - decorative horns that the chaos marine in question went out of his way to affix to his head - severely inconveniencing himself on purpose. The design of the new style horns are much more organic and mutated, clearly grown of their own volition due to exposure to the warp, rather than deliberately put there.

 

Between old style chaos marines who break their necks due to horns they put on their heads themselves in their own vanity and new style chaos marines who are barely-if-at-all inconvenienced by spindly horns breaking off when they walk through doorways - horns that are only there because the chaos marine in question did not give enough of a **** about appearances to trim them - I'd go with the latter.


Edited by malisteen, 25 November 2013 - 02:44 PM.

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#11
the jeske

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horns that you add to your own head gear =>manly. An active action is done to add them .3.5 manly codex for manly man , made by the man of man H-man

horns that grown from your own helmet on their own => not manly. A passive action happened for them to appear. A gav thorpe codex and a kelly codex[one writes , the other one plays eldar] ,as unmanly as it gets. less manly then sob , who while female , still have a distinc bro tier feel.


Edited by the jeske, 25 November 2013 - 04:29 PM.

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Belfegor


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#12
malisteen

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As ridiculous as claiming that a fake, costume beard of make believe carpet strung to a 5 year old's face for their kindergarten play is more manly than an actual beard of grizzled, wirey man fur grown straight from the face of a majestic wild lumberjack.


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#13
daveNYC

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Any accessory that would effectively clothesline you if you were sprinting through a doorway is pretty damn stupid.

 

You want to know why the Word Bearers lost at Calth?  Because half their forces kept knocking themselves out on the low ceilings of the caverns.


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#14
Lysere

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Heaven Forbid you encounter wooden stairs with a low ceiling. The Black Cruade meets it's end because of a low ceiling and wooden floorboards.


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#15
the jeske

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As ridiculous as claiming that a fake, costume beard of make believe carpet strung to a 5 year old's face for their kindergarten play is more manly than an actual beard of grizzled, wirey man fur grown straight from the face of a majestic wild lumberjack.

My grandmother taught me that it doesn't matter what is protecting your face when winter comes .The more the better.

 

you claim that kelly or thorpe are more manly then H-man or Chambers? 0_o


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#16
Ammonius

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You guys are great :)

I can't wait until we see the cover of the Iron Warriors supplement, and see whole squads sporting the glorious racks of barbed-wire wrapped fleshmetal antlers as wide as an Imperial Guardsman is tall...

 

...because the Iron Warriors solved the door/floor/stairs problems wih D-Weapons the day before.


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#17
Excessus

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Chambers will always be the more manly... :P


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#18
nurglez

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I was tempted to buy it, until I saw the £30 price tag.

 

I dont want to have 4 chaos heavy support that badly...

 

Anyone remember when these rules were for free (well in a white dwarf)? Ah memories...

 

However, if a decent Iron warriors or nurgle one comes out, I shall probably be buying that :D


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#19
malisteen

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you claim that kelly or thorpe are more manly then H-man or Chambers? 0_o

Of course not! But the manliness of a codex (or its authors) in rules or fluff has nothing to do with the manliness of the models' or artwork's design aesthetic (or that of the artists producing it).

I would place the baroque, mutated, barrel-chested, warrior-kings that are the dark vengeance chosen and those CSM artworks that follow the same design aesthetic head and shoulders over the old, awkward, poorly proportioned, crudely detailed, bow-legged, undersized, dwarfed by their own backpacks, overshadowed by their ridiculous decorative spikes and horns as big around as their forearms, old school CSM models and the artwork that tried to convince us that they were cool.

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#20
Tenebris

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Indeed, the DV Chosen are what should a standard CSM look like, with perhaps gold and silver details and some more elaborate iconography to act as symbols for the elite Chosen. Also the new Raptors are the look I am after, they are menacing, detailed, fully custom and have really wicked weapons that inspire dread. Their helmets are sinister and the minor mutations of the Warp Talons not that overriding. The current CSM looks like a loyalist runt who has put some horns on his helmet and who has ordered his slave artificer to bulk the borders of his armor. 

 

The CSM plate should be an arcane, baroque armor, with ancient and sinister iconography, more in line with the current Aspiring Champion model or the Warpsmith/Dark Apostle/Sorcerer look. Also the poses should be more daring, more dramatic and should give the CSM an air of confidence, superiority and contempt for his foes. Again the new Champion but also the Chosen captured the image perfectly.

 

I hate the collective idea CSM = marine with spikes that GW follows. Our look should be more organic, more fleshy and more wicked. A CSM should be the image of evil, of the ultimate tyrant, villain, not that of heroic figure like the loyalist marines, not even closely. Barbs, trophies, mutations... hell the CSM have sold their soul to darkness and horns are not the way to portray that. 

 

I also lament the mutation kit made by GW, very basic and blunt, the Fantasy Forsaken on the other side... now that I like. 


"From the fires of Betrayal unto the blood of revenge we bring the name of Lorgar, the Bearer of the Word, the favored Son of Chaos, all praise be given to him. From those that would not heed we offer praise to those who do, that they might turn their gaze our way and gift us with the Boon of Pain, to turn the Galaxy red with the blood, and feed the hunger of the Gods."
 
— Excerpt from the three hundred and forty-first epistle, Book of Lorgar

 

etl201303custosfidei01.jpg


#21
Immersturm

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There's always the Extract of Nurgle (aka Green Stuff) to suit your needs. Personally, I love that ancient Baroque look, but then again, I am not evil^^



#22
Sith'ari

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Got my Special Ed. through the post today & I have a week off to fully digest all of that lovely, Black Legion background - cant wait! :D

 

Now I just have to figure out a decent way to use Chosen squads...



#23
Dravenguild

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@ tenebris

 

I agree to an extent, mutations should remain optional because legions like the iron warriors don't take too kindly to that stuff. And it's especially infuriating to shave all those damn spikes and mutations off the new raptors and chosen.


Edited by Dravenguild, 27 November 2013 - 02:56 AM.


#24
Iron Skull Mask

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@ tenebris

 

I agree to an extent, mutations should remain optional because legions like the iron warriors don't take too kindly to that stuff. And it's especially infuriating to shave all those damn spikes and mutations off the new raptors and chosen.

 

That's right. I don't like the new chosen much for that exact reason (and to some extent even the raptors). If anything, CSM should have a lot of Heresy-style armor within their ranks, especially the original Legions. Heretic space marine chapters should of course have armor similar to the loyalists. Warp taint and mutations definitely should be optional and might be added to any kind of armor.


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#25
malisteen

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1) It's a heck of a lot easier to shave mutations off than it is to sculpt them out of nothing

2) After 10,000 years in the Eye of Terror, I don't care what you looked like going in or what your stance on mutations or chaos worship or anything else is. You have chosen to live for 10 millennia in a non-euclidean hellscape where the only physical laws are the mercurial whims of laughing gods. If you're coming out at all, you are coming out mutated, augmented, 'gifted' if not downright possessed. Form follows function in the eye of terror, literally. Armor fuses with skin and grows chitinous plates, weapons grow teeth and claws, and gain a life of their own as they feed on the souls of those they slay, warriors inherit the daemonic attention and infernal favor of those they ley low, becoming infused with the dark majesty of chaos whether they bend their knee to daemonic masters or no. Those who are feared grow more fearsome, their visage taking on a nightmarish countenance. Those who are successful grow mighty, neverborn flocking in their wake whether they call upon them or not. Those who are powerful simply grow, until they dwarf even the stature of other astartes.

These are not things chosen by the chaos marines of the Eye of Terror, but rather merely the fundamental reality of the realm in which they reside. Chaos is a real thing in 40k and in the eye it is everything. One does not need to worship it to be touched by it - rather one can't help but be touched by it - resistance would be as futile as a drowning man completely submerged in the water, with no land for miles in any direction, attempting to swat away the sea.


And besides, if you want your chaos marines to look like loyalist marines, you can always buy loyalist marine models. Or more likely 30k stuff from forgeworld.

But try not to forget the name of our faction: not 'traitor' space marines, not 'renegade' or 'heretic' space marines. Chaos space marines. Playing Chaos space marines and expecting to field an army free from any touch of chaos is like expecting to be able to play a necron army with no robots in it.

Edited by malisteen, 27 November 2013 - 06:03 AM.

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