HH Imperial Fists helmet colour

[Dorns Templar]

Hi everyone. I'm just about to embark on an Imperial Fists project, and would like to know about the helmet colour. Half the pictures I've seen show them in yellow, and the others show them wearing red helmets with a white stripe.

 

A little guidance would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Daddywarcrimes]

They should be yellow.  The red helms for veterans were introduced with the Codex Astartes.

[depthcharge12]

IIRC I thought all had red helmets with white stripes throughout the heresy

[GhostMalone]

Actually, the red and white weren't veterans in the heresy.

 

It was used for all marines to show them as the blood and bone of the imperium.

 

The codex astrates then decided on the veterancy post heresy.

[Dorns Templar]

Thanks for some quick replies. I too was thinking they were all red with the white stripe, but the number of models I've seen in just yellow made me want to check. I didn't want to paint up all my Fists in the wrong helmet colour!

[Kol Saresk]

I'd almost have to ask for a source since the cover of Shadows of Treachery definitely shows yellow... Not to mention the Battle of Phall display board.

 

Shadows of Treachery

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Images/Product/DefaultBL/xlarge/poster-shadows-of-treachery.jpg

 

Battle of Phall Display

 

 

 

All that yellow. Hurts my eyes.

[GhostMalone]

I remember from an old IA and the original space marine novel and old issues of white dwarf covering the whole blood and bone aspect

 

Plus it breaks up that horrible bright yellow

[Daddywarcrimes]

I'll agree that the red helms look a lot better, and it wouldn't surprise me if the old Ian Watson IF stuff spells them out as wearing red and white helms, but that stuff is all well after the Heresy, if I remember correctly.  Everything I could find from the Heresy shows the golden saffron helmets.

[Kol Saresk]

Oh, that's some old fluff right there.

[Knight of the Raven]

One marine does have a red helmet in the second-to-last picture, but whether it's because he's a sergeant, a honor bestowed upon some soldiers like the aquila or some way to show his status as the winner of the Thirty Eighth Disco Competition last month is unknown.

[GhostMalone]

Okay

 

So original collected visions

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/Taron_James_Beer/image_zps430d3c5f.jpg

 

 

Re release

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y524/Taron_James_Beer/image_zpsb632ed63.jpg

[Daddywarcrimes]

That legionnaire is also wearing Mk8 armor, not Crusade armor, despite the caption.  It looks like either that heraldry got retconned away, or it was mislabelled, or both.

[GhostMalone]

Or that a lot of IF images have the raised gorgets on MKIII iv vii armours.

 

Errant armour wasn't established till iirc M37.

 

Doesn't mean that they didn't modify their marks

[marshal seanisi]

I too had this dilemma when I started up my HH era fists army. I decided to just go with Yellow helmets and make the veterans have red ones. Right wrong or indifferent, it adds a bit of distinction between the sergeants and veterans. In the end, do what you think is best.

[Dorns Templar]

Hmm. That re-release scheme looks good. I like how the red/white helmet breaks up the yellow too. Do you really think it matters too much if I painted them one way or the other?

[GhostMalone]

Not really, but I've seen a lot if the Veterans of the hobby doing their fists in the original collected visions scheme.

 

So it's just preference

[Dorns Templar]

Thanks everyone. I'm now even more confused lol. Like you've said, it's down too preference.

[Don the Oiler]

White is the mark of veterancy, red is for sergeants. Before the heresy, red helmets were a sign for a Marine marked for censure according to Thiel. That's the "latest" official interpretation of the matter.

Maybe the IF sergeants had red helmets all the time, and it was just a mark of censure for the Ultramarines. The Fist sergeants were confused about why the Blueys were always pointing fingers at them and laughed behind their backs, so Guilliman standardized the issue for his codex.

[GhostMalone]

So every IF is marked for censure.... Right

[Don the Oiler]

So every IF is marked for censure.... Right

Red-helmed Ultramarines yes, but there was no official word about it being so in all the other legions. I think the Blood Angels and Thousand Sons would think differently about that matter.

[Spinsanity]

Oh so all BAs (except the Sanguinary Guard and any who 'took he black') were subject to censure too? Red = censure is a Legio specific thing, far from universal...

[Hyaenidae]

Honestly, my Watch will retain yellow helms across the board (line brethren and vets), and my Sergeants will either take white helms or gold trim on their plate to mark them out.

 

Red on yellow is so damn ugly, IMO (Yeah, that includes the BA's weird yellow helms). White and yellow looks so much better. If all fails when the IF HH stuff comes out and shoots my idea full of holes, I'll retain that it was a Unification-era mark that was kept out of respect of those who came before.

[Kol Saresk]

You could always do black and yellow ;)

[Hyaenidae]

Some color needs to be added, lest they begin to look like giant bumblebees.

[Don the Oiler]

What i was trying to say was: The only "official" indication of red helmets meaning *anything at all* pre-heresy is Thiel's mark of censure, and he was an Ultramarine. For the Fists and all the other legions it could mean anything from sergeant status to favourite color, for we don't have official word about them (yet).