Mahoo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm sure I've noticed a few authors using "clip" when referring to ammunition magazines. Only a little thing but it gets under my skin lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The Wet Leopard thing was definitely overdone in Prospero Burns - and was, I felt, a little out of character for Abnett. As others remarked, I think it stands out so much because it's a quite unusual and striking simile AND THEN it is repeated a lot. Abnett's near word for word description of Gaunt at the start of every Gaunt's Ghosts novel make me smile - I don't think it's a problem because it's normally once a novel and is almost a running in-series gag/tradition. I can't think of too many other ones that annoy me. People using the same adjective for a character everytime they are described is always annoying and something I feel like I've seen in a couple of BL novels, but can't recall specific cases at the moment. Plasteel and rockcrete don't really bother me - they're the equivalent of saying steel and concrete and that's what a lot of stuff is made of. Tropes is a different issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I think one word that often pops up and makes me chuckle every time is "cordite" in reference to the smells of a battlefield/gunpowder. Cordite was a very specific kind of propellant that was manufactured in the late 19th, early 20th centuries (named after its cord-like appearance). This is one of the most hackneyed and lazy references that a lot of authors use solely becuase they've seen it used by other authors. At some point, perhaps a novel set in early 20th century British colonial Africa might have made proper use of the term in describing a battlefield that smelled of cordite (which did have a distinctly smell from black powder and modern smokeless powders as I understand). Amusingly enough, nobody's really sure where the use of this term came from. But it's a cardinal sin in writing action stories. I don't think I've used "cordite" (I prefer the faux-future-chemical compoundy/powdery sound of "fyceline" and the gritty, archaic, earthy feel of "gunsmoke") but in fairness to whoever does use it, 40K tech is closer in theme and feel to an early 20th century colonial British setting than anything with modern firearms. So it wouldn't rip me out of the moment, where something like a "laser target designator" would, if you get me. As usual, though, I've nabbed another one of your insights into a Word.doc as food for thought, Vet. With muchos gratitude. Yeah, but to be fair no one calls things by their scientific. Most people would call something by its model or a colloquial term. Like a 240 or something. On a side note it's ridiculously amusing that the science fiction elements are thought of distastefully, but a subterranean maze that constantly shifts is considered a believable security system or something like explaining how a power armored under suit uses direct pressure on the skin as opposed to a pressure balloon like a space suit is taboo because it doesn't fit into a setting with daemons made of anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I liked 'wet leopard'. Like -Max-, it got under my skin and made me feel the noise. It clearly sprung to mind a slobbering, angry beast. The first time it was a poignant description and each repetition called it back to mind and reinforced it. It was a specific way of growling. 'When something growls like that', the phrase said, 'it's talking business. And it's growling like that right now'. But I'd understand why people could be annoyed by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Is there a single prominent Astartes who doesn't get described as having "patrician" features? Because by Russ, it feels like that word is damn near everywhere. Yes. In Graham McNeill's first couple of HH novels, every damn marine that is described has patrician features. He got better: I think someone may have pointed it out to him, as there is only 1 Patrician marine in Angel Exterminatus, and I don't remember about A Thousand Sons. It's annoying, because it means nothing, it's not even a way to describe someone. No more than: "He had a hobo face". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosco Toppings Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Another one i've noticed is when psykers use their powers and the air is described as having a greasy quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrion Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 There's too much 'my son' going on. I know it's supposed to be how the Primarchs/Emperors/Father Figures talk what with the whole monkish fraternity thing being a big part of the Space Marine chic, but all it does is make me hear every primarchs voice as being identical regardless of their mien or any description of their voice. They all do that though, so I think it's not so much an author thing as a BL thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 And so it's only at this point in the thread I realise that 'wet leopard growl' means 'a wet growl like an angry leopard' and not 'a growl like an angry, wet leopard'. It's suddenly all so much clearer now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Are we sure of that? Because every time I re-read PB I get yanked out of my immersion trying to decide if Abnett wants to evoke the sound of a slobbery big cat, or one that has just had a bucket of water thrown on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razic Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 "Overlapping arcs of fire" Usually used to help describe an Astartes' superior tactical abilities, but is in fact a very basic military tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akylas Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I'm sure I've noticed a few authors using "clip" when referring to ammunition magazines. Only a little thing but it gets under my skin lol Heh, sometimes I feel like it's "almost all" and not just a few. Most of the time I can ignore that one but once in a while it gets to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Are we sure of that? Because every time I re-read PB I get yanked out of my immersion trying to decide if Abnett wants to evoke the sound of a slobbery big cat, or one that has just had a bucket of water thrown on it. Or one in heat. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveNYC Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Are we sure of that? Because every time I re-read PB I get yanked out of my immersion trying to decide if Abnett wants to evoke the sound of a slobbery big cat, or one that has just had a bucket of water thrown on it. Which makes it a bad simile. If you write something that's that ambiguous (at least in the context of describing someone's voice), then there's a problem. 'Wet leopard growl' is probably supposed to mean a smooth liquid noise, or something. Unfortunately, 'wet' is right in front of 'leopard', so straight reading of the line would indicate that it's talking about a large cat that has been dunked in a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Ahhh, but that stylized and deliberately improper grammar is part of what makes it such a cool phrase for me. For technical purposes he could have written 'The Space Wolf growled. It was like the growl of a beast, wet and slick with moisture'. That's much better. But it's not meant to be a saying rather than a description. A 'wet-leopard growl' is not a description of a growl, it is a separate type of thing altogether. As the book carries on it builds its own connotations. Like saying touché or tête-à-tête. Perfectly good words in the English language to describe those things. But saying touché is different to saying 'well said'. If we get down to it, why a leopard? Does a leopard growl in a different way to a tiger, or a panther, or a cheetah? What about wolves and dogs? Aren't those better comparisons? I'm not a good writer and I sometimes struggle to describe things properly. Like now. But sometimes that lack of formal knowledge helps me look past language that's 'wrong', I think, and enjoy it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Ahhh, but that stylized and deliberately improper grammar is part of what makes it such a cool phrase for me. For technical purposes he could have written 'The Space Wolf growled. It was like the growl of a beast, wet and slick with moisture'. That's much better. But it's not meant to be a saying rather than a description. A 'wet-leopard growl' is not a description of a growl, it is a separate type of thing altogether. As the book carries on it builds its own connotations. Like saying touché or tête-à-tête. Perfectly good words in the English language to describe those things. But saying touché is different to saying 'well said'. If we get down to it, why a leopard? Does a leopard growl in a different way to a tiger, or a panther, or a cheetah? What about wolves and dogs? Aren't those better comparisons? I'm not a good writer and I sometimes struggle to describe things properly. Like now. But sometimes that lack of formal knowledge helps me look past language that's 'wrong', I think, and enjoy it for what it is. It was the leopard bit that kills the emersion for me too. I understand the sound and feeling he is trying to envoke. A beast with a mouth already slick with saliva as though its already tasting the kill. But why a big cat when everything about the space WOLVES centers around them being likened to a completely different genome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 When I imagine a Wolf growling he's in front of me, about to charge. When I imagine a cat growling it's behind me, about to leap and rip its claws through my back. Different imagery. Come to think of it, that might explain my own question. Leopards are known for stealth more than tigers. Panthers are stealthy but subtler. Also a greater step away from the 'dog' imagery. Fictional wolves, cats, leopards and panthers, of course. And I'm over-thinking this. Dan Abnett's thoughts were probably 'I need a way to describe this growling... hohum, hohum... "wet-leopard"! Right. Awesome. Next bit.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Imperator Vult Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Agreed, a leopard is over your shoulder in the shadows a wolf is in front of you bareing its teeth. To be fair I think it's a hallmark of a good author that you can still be discussing their work this long after its publication. Even if little bits stick out it was far from the worst book in the series. It doesn't matter how well Deliverance Lost was written (I actually don't remember I repressed most of it) it was still much much worse than any of Dan's contributions to the series... even if I wasn't a fan of Legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 See I'm not so much a massive Dan abnett fan (partially a reason I picked up on wet leopard in the first place) Another couple that gripe me are imperceptible and perfunctory nods. I find myself saying perfunctory for days aftewards trying to purge itvia excessive use. Never works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The leopard bit...as a one or two time thing would have been fine. It's only when it's peppered through the book like onion in a caaserole that the ambiguity vis-a-vis the wetness of the growl or the animal and the general oddness of it (How would anyone in M31 know what an extinct Terran big cat sounds like, anyway?) start to ping against the reader's (this reader, anyways) thought process like sleet on a tin roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (How would anyone in M31 know what an extinct Terran big cat sounds like, anyway?)That does ping me too. I found an example of it in a Star Wars novel I was reading last night. I explain it away by thinking that the word must have survived even if the species didn't. There's probably Baar'se White Leopards in the galaxy or something. Sanguinius wears something like a Cheetah pelt, so who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I don't think it was written for people in M31, though. I'd have no idea what to think if he described things growling like a Narthlax or whatever. Leopards and Jaguars have a distinct type of growl. Big cats in general growl differently than most animals because of their size. If he had just written growl I probably would have thought of a dogs growl or even a humans growl. Specifically mentioning a leopard put a deeper, throatier, and much more bestial sound in my head. Could it have been phrased better? Probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathstrike_Chimera Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Abnett saying "ochre" in the 2nd and 3rd GG books annoyed me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Did reading "wet leopard growl" multiple times pull me out a bit, make me wonder why it was used so often, make me think about which part was being described as wet? Yes. Did I care about it at all as I read the book, or let it stay in my mind after I pass each one? Not even the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 My re-read occured in the works van, every time "wet leopard" popped up, I'd say so, we'd cheer, I'd swear colourfully about the fact it was the 5th time in that particular block of reading. My work mate would ask if I'd come across "wet leopard" every time I picked the book up. Funnily enough at one point def leppard came on the same time I read "wet leopard" the once. I sniggered then decided to set about meteor hammer practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 15/35 growls with 1 or 2 wet leopard-purrs thrown in. A little much. You get to the point where water is wet and you don't have to keep saying it. Just my opinion, however. "“The almost-wolf uttered another wet leopard-growl.” Hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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