5888 replies to this topic

[Forté]

One mean squad. Good to see you back on the PA.

[Knight of the Raven]

Good-looking models. May you never roll ones wih them.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Peeps, I really could use some constructive feedback. 

 

As I've shown before I'm working on a Plague Contemptor for my Call of Chaos vow. My idea was to make the archetypal burst-belly-with-entrails-blobbing-out on him. You've already seen the first try, but I decided to redo it, in three stages.

1. Sculpt the entrails

2. Sculpt the burst flesh that was previously holding the entrails in (perhaps this flesh used to be the dreadnought's amniotic tank membrane)

3. Sculpt the burst armour holding everything inside the outer dreadnought casing.

 

Stage three never happened, half-way through stage two I decided the dread would be so corrupted that the belly armour itself would have slowly turned to flesh and then burst. This is what I have so far:

 

 

 

 

 

 

The thing is, I'm not really happy with it. Something's not right. Perhaps it's the way the belly is poking out. Perhaps it's the chain, the way that it hangs, or the size of its links. Perhaps it's the entrails... Something is wrong and I can't exactly pinpoint what it is.

 

I really would appreciate anyone's thoughts on what's wrong and/or what could be changed or improved. People's responses have proven to be hugely influential in the decisions and improvements I made in my previous projects, and it really shows the awesomeness of this forum. So any feedback is most welcome. Cheers!

 

Thanks!!

[KBA]

2. Sculpt the burst flesh that was previously holding the entrails in (perhaps this flesh used to be the dreadnought's amniotic tank membrane)

 

I'd run as hard and fast as you can with that idea. Really interesting aspect, and with a Nurgle Dread, the sky is the limit.

[Augustus b'Raass]

2. Sculpt the burst flesh that was previously holding the entrails in (perhaps this flesh used to be the dreadnought's amniotic tank membrane)

 

I'd run as hard and fast as you can with that idea. Really interesting aspect, and with a Nurgle Dread, the sky is the limit.

Thanks mate! But I already tried that - did I do a bad job or is it unclear in the pictures?

[Forté]

2. Sculpt the burst flesh that was previously holding the entrails in (perhaps this flesh used to be the dreadnought's amniotic tank membrane)

I'd run as hard and fast as you can with that idea. Really interesting aspect, and with a Nurgle Dread, the sky is the limit.

Thanks mate! But I already tried that - did I do a bad job or is it unclear in the pictures?

Wouldn't say you did a bad job at all. Just needs a bit more work to clean up the join areas on the skin where you've built up the GS. Maybe a few maggots and strange bulges higher up than the entrails to make it look like there is more trying to come out.

Want something gross for inspiration. Watch a few blow fly vids on YouTube.

[JeffTibbetts]

Okay, here's my thought: I like the idea that the armor itself is corrupted and bursting. I also kind of like the idea that the entrails are not the pilot's at all, and that they're wholly contrived by the corruption. That being said, to sell the idea it's the armor, you can do two things: Make the edges of the armor plates much thicker/more substantial. Have a few bits peeling out almost like a heavy shell impact on armor. Maybe the dread was gutshot by a Predator battle cannon, and guts poured out to everyone's surprise. It's really important to make it look like thick armor plating, though, so it doesn't look too naturally blended like skin. If it's skin, it's like elephant or rhinoceros skin. Heavy, thick stuff. The other idea I think would help with the chain, and that's to make it look like it's bulging and straining at the chain as well. Just a little blended-in sausage of GS above and below the skin where the chain would be pulling at it the most. Think fat guy with a tight belt. In fact, think Glottkin. 

 

Does that all make sense? I could sketch a quick pic if you like. 

[Chaeron]

 

 

2. Sculpt the burst flesh that was previously holding the entrails in (perhaps this flesh used to be the dreadnought's amniotic tank membrane)

I'd run as hard and fast as you can with that idea. Really interesting aspect, and with a Nurgle Dread, the sky is the limit.

Thanks mate! But I already tried that - did I do a bad job or is it unclear in the pictures?

Wouldn't say you did a bad job at all. Just needs a bit more work to clean up the join areas on the skin where you've built up the GS. Maybe a few maggots and strange bulges higher up than the entrails to make it look like there is more trying to come out.

 

 

Yup, I think it's the transition from armour to flesh - it looks good as it, but I think if you can perfect going from one to the other, it'll be absolutely perfect.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks guys, that helps. 

 

Wouldn't say you did a bad job at all. Just needs a bit more work to clean up the join areas on the skin where you've built up the GS. Maybe a few maggots and strange bulges higher up than the entrails to make it look like there is more trying to come out.

Want something gross for inspiration? Watch a few blow fly vids on YouTube.

The bulges are a great idea! (I try to stay away from maggots - in my mind the plague Night Lords shouldn't look that corrupted )

 

Also: blow fly vids?

Spoiler

 

Okay, here's my thought: I like the idea that the armor itself is corrupted and bursting. I also kind of like the idea that the entrails are not the pilot's at all, and that they're wholly contrived by the corruption. That being said, to sell the idea it's the armor, you can do two things: Make the edges of the armor plates much thicker/more substantial. Have a few bits peeling out almost like a heavy shell impact on armor. Maybe the dread was gutshot by a Predator battle cannon, and guts poured out to everyone's surprise. It's really important to make it look like thick armor plating, though, so it doesn't look too naturally blended like skin. If it's skin, it's like elephant or rhinoceros skin. Heavy, thick stuff. The other idea I think would help with the chain, and that's to make it look like it's bulging and straining at the chain as well. Just a little blended-in sausage of GS above and below the skin where the chain would be pulling at it the most. Think fat guy with a tight belt. In fact, think Glottkin. 

 

Does that all make sense? I could sketch a quick pic if you like. 

That does make a lot of sense, all of it. Nevertheless I still would appreciate a sketch! Thanks for the trouble!

Edited by Augustus b'Raass, 17 November 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[daemonclaw]

mmmm thats a tough one 

personally i really liked the first one but this is your guy and your idea ,i think the real problem is similar to what i face in my own sculpting , that being you have an idea but no real reference to help address the sculpting.

from what i see you have no defining line between organic and mechanic which could pose problems in look as well as painting but if thats the way you want to go you could try bulging the belly more and add the pustules and dents in the fleshier areas.(the base of paintbrushes at different sizes help).

you could also try letting the entrails fold more over the chain .or you could sculpt it to look like the armour plates have split open revealing the belly.

a good reference for macabre biomech stuff is an artist called brom it might help with ideas of how to combine the two

good luck

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks daemonclaw! Yeah I agree the armour should really be a part of it. The problem I face was the entrails plus the flesh took up so much forward space that the armour plating on top of that becomes too much 'forward' if you know what I mean. So I stuck with only the flesh. My plan was to blend the fleshy colours into the dark blueish grey of the plague NL armour, like i did with the fleshy parts on my titan, for example. But I agree it would be more akin to my previous plague marines to differentiate between the flesh and the armour. Back to the sculpting table!

[Chandrian]

i"m struggling to describe what i'm seeing in my head ,  but i think it might be to much of an easy transition from metal to guts?  

 

He would need to have a bit more metal over the spilling guts (Similar to what Jeff is saying). Perhaps make it look like the metal was strained and JUST burst like a pipe outward? jagged metal ends with cracks running up the chest. That could also play on your not to corrupted look . 

[helterskelter]

Because it's you asking, I'll sign in to reply: everything below the chain, nailed it. Above the chain but below the chest, that skin space needs detail, like sores or ruptures, something like that, not too much that it's overdone, just enough to kill dead space if you get what I mean. Hope this helps

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks to you guys too. I really appreciate the help.

 

 

i"m struggling to describe what i'm seeing in my head ,  but i think it might be to much of an easy transition from metal to guts?  

 

He would need to have a bit more metal over the spilling guts (Similar to what Jeff is saying). Perhaps make it look like the metal was strained and JUST burst like a pipe outward? jagged metal ends with cracks running up the chest. That could also play on your not to corrupted look . 

 

Because it's you asking, I'll sign in to reply: everything below the chain, nailed it. Above the chain but below the chest, that skin space needs detail, like sores or ruptures, something like that, not too much that it's overdone, just enough to kill dead space if you get what I mean. Hope this helps

OK based on the previous comments and what you two said: take away the chain, do step 3 (sculpt the burst armour) and thus eliminate the need for pustules on the skin etc.

 

I cut away everything, dumped the chain and AGAIN redid the entrails and the skin, making sure this time that there's enough room for the burst armour. That last stage still needs to be scultped, but I'm first going to wait for this to dry up. 

 

 

 

What do you think so far?

 

btw don't mind the finger prints, those will be hidden after the burst armour is scultped on there.

 

Thanks again guys for the feedback, help, and ideas!

[Flint13]

Oh, that looks really darn good! I think the only thing that didn't look quite right before was how thin the armor plate looked. Something much more substantial looking would go a lot better. Like the metal ruptured from an anti-armor shot, and the gross amniotic sac on the inside burst and is in the process of plopping out.

 

Gross!

 

I do miss the chain a little bit though. The implied conversation in whatever passes for a Nurgle motor-pool made me giggle.

 

"Eh... looks like he burst a seam."

"Just staple it in with some chain, make sure he doesn't trip over it."

[JeffTibbetts]

Here's what I was thinking before. 

 

I like what you've done so far. Take this or leave it, doesn't matter to me. 

[Augustus b'Raass]

Damn Jeff, those are some awesome drawing skills you're displaying there. I will try to do exactly that, plus a thin layer of ruptured amniotic sack. (Also @Flint:) I decided against the chain before solely because it's too big. I just ordered some 24LPI brass chain, with which I'm going to try to copy what you, Jeff, have so expertly drawn. Seriously man, thank you for taking the time and effort to drawn that!! Much, much appreciated!

Edited by Augustus b'Raass, 17 November 2014 - 11:32 PM.

[Teetengee]

I would also say this, although I think you have solved that problem with this new version. In the old version, the skin to metal transition was only happening in one place, I generally think such effects would occur over multiple parts. That may have been a way to tie it all together a few steps ago, but I think this looks even more promising. Good luck.

[RolandTHTG]

That updated sculpt looks disgusting. Definitely on the right track!

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks guys! I gave the armour a try just now - what do you think of the ruptured armour, with below that torn skin of the amniotic sack, and below that guts spilling out?

 

 

 

 

 

Lemme know! I appreciate your comments and ideas

 

I have to say I'm not sure if this will be the final version - I don't have any small 24LPI chain left, so I have to wait until those come in. I might try a completely new sculpt with the chains holding the guts together. That WILL be a really tough challenge though, as the guts and flesh need to fold *over* the chain, but the armour should not - however the armour can only be sculpted *after* the guts and flesh have dried.... Ponder ponder....

 

Edited by Augustus b'Raass, 18 November 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Forté]

That's more like it. May be worth taking a file to the edges of the split armour once it's fully cured. Just to get more of an edge to it.

[JeffTibbetts]

Right on. Looks gross.

 

The only nitpick I have is that it's a little too uniform right now. It almost looks like it's a skirt, if you will. What might help that would be making some bits larger than others. So, maybe pick a few "plates" and combine them so there's more space between the cracks. And just like Forte said, a rough score or filing of the edges would make them look a little more jagged. Think of the way ork vehicles look when they slap on plates of rough cut metal, if you need some inspiration. 

[Hyaenidae]

I think paint will change that 'skirt' appearance dramatically. Rust, pus, old blood spattered and eating into the metal just above the rupture. 

 

Don't change a damn thing, dude. You nailed it.

[KrautScientist]

I think I speak for all of us when I say:

 

"EWWWWW!"

 

JeffTibbetts is right, though: Looking excellent, but ever so slightly too uniform. Nothing that a few minor touchups wouldn't solve, though.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Thanks guys, to all. I wholeheartedly agree it could use some old-fashioned hobby knife jive, first to make it less uniform and second to make the edges sharper. Will do! Thanks again for all your super constructive feedback: i can only hope i (can) return the favour once in a while