++ AUGUSTUS b'RAASS ++ pre-heresy BRASS SCORPION p.247

[Flint13]

While not quite as vehniment about it, I totally agree with Knight of the Raven a little further up. It's a bit of a double-standard since blood splattered dudes can be scattered everywhere. Like Shuggs said too, men are "fair game."

 

Warhammer does have a sort of "clean" take on violence overall. Folks get shot in the head, but much more rarely do you hear about brain matter and skull fragments being ejected out of the back. Same thing with sexuality as well. Stuff is *very* glossed over there. Just like in a PG13 action movie.

 

100% opinion, I love it. It reminds me that the Nightlords are F*****G brutal, at the absolute ends of the spectrum of depravity and brutality. But I can understand how it might make people a little uncomfortable. You do kinda have to "cater to your audience" since we are typically playing in a public place. I can sorta understand what your store manager is going for, since the "public" is going to stick to bogus prejudices regardless of what you feel is "right."

 

Proposes solution: What if we gave her a tiny bikini to cover up her nips?

Edited April 17, 2014 by Flint13

[Augustus b'Raass]

Oh wow, so much response over a model. I love it.  Flint, I so deserve the nickname you gave me.

 

I do agree with all opposed that I should change the gender and make a kids-and-mommies(-and German scientists   ) friendly version. I also agree with the proponents that the female body is very fluffy and looks fricking awesome.

 

So! My solution is this: since I'm using actual 1mm metal nails as spikes, I'll drill a 1.2mm wide, 6mm deep hole where the spike should be and put in a 1mm wide, 2mm long round magnet. Then I'll make two nails-as spikes, one with a a male AND one with a female. This way, I can switch them around as much as I can... I'll promise to bring the kids-freindly version (gory though it is) to the store. And I will post both versions here for anyone interested.

 

There.

 

Now we can all go back to sleep, safe in the knowledge that in a hundred years time, we will all be corpses. Until that time, I thank all of you for taking the time to share your honest thoughts and especially KrautScientist for bringing this valid point up - he made us all realize this is a hobby with kids, and as they are our future we should take care of them. Thank you all for keeping this discussion polite, respectful and intelligent.

That being said I would like to end with a quote, as we should all get back to enjoying our hobbies:

 

"Death to the False Emperor!"

Edited April 18, 2014 by Augustus b'Raass

[JeffTibbetts]

What an interesting conversation. I came for the models, but I stayed to hear everyone hash it out. That makes your model a win on so many levels. How often do we actually get to say we have a real 'conversation piece.'

[Brother Heinrich]

Lol don't worry man, even if you don't keep it, mine will. My guys nickname is "the beast" because before he was interred in dreadnought he was a cannibalistic monster of a Night Lord who enjoyed tormenting and feasting on women in particular.

 

We're Night Lords man, sociopaths in power armor, embrace it or go play bleeding-heart Salamanders. ;)

[Trysanna]

I love the new Contemptor. It bleeds brutality, and aggression. Can't wait to see it painted and with a head. 

 

I actually decided to read all the comments (It was a long day at work) and I'll mimic what others say, and vote to keep it. (Ha, democratic Night Lords) It brings realism to the miniature, and helps the Night Lords feel sick and twisted. As for GW, I can understand why they might not want it to be displayed and whatnot, but whatever. Rule of cool. 

-Tarvik

Edited April 18, 2014 by Tarvik

[Brother Heinrich]

I will also say that not displaying nudity further reinforces the absurd notion that the naked human form is somehow more abhorrent than a mutilated, tortured, and dismembered one. One of the most refreshing parts of a trip I took to Italy in '06 was (hilariously enough) the fact that Porn was available on regular cable. It was so refreshing to see a culture that didn't place such an absurd taboo on the perfectly normal act of human intercourse and nudity. I find it absolutely hilarious that people copulating is more horrifying to the mothers of America than a disemboweled man screaming while he bleeds to death in agony. 

 

Put the torso on there and throw a middle finger to the established 'norms' that western civilization has created. That's what I'm doing, that's why I have a flayed human being decorating my tanks and why I will put a dismembered female torso, BOOBS and all, on my glorious mothering Chaos Contemptor.

[Augustus b'Raass]

Ha! I hadn't even thought about the 'Merica factor, GW being British, me Dutch and the OP of the issue German. I just consider all of us as one nation under the false corpse god. Also Tarvik, thanks for the comment. Rule of cool leads for me, but i do want to be able to play games with my models whereever. I'll just stick to making a magnetizable version for kids and a gory version for everyone who only considers the cool-factor.

 

I am looking forward to your contemptor, Heinrich. Gore and all. I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with my having created a real 'conversation piece', as Jeff called it. Lolz

[Darth Mustard]

Interesting pieces and conversation pieces
I, personally, am not a big fan of blood splatters everywhere because I think that most of the time they ruin the quality and visibility of some well-painted models.

Torsos, skin and scalp trophies are neither my cup of (Chinese green ) tea but they are parts of the NL background and you obviously enjoy using and modeling them so you should keep doing them. I think yours are really cool and clever and I like the creativity that you display through them.
I, strangely, enjoy modeling zombies for example but don't like slimmy-rotten-ready-to-explosed death guards. How strange can I be? But I see some of these made hobbists and my reaction is most of the time "pretty cool stuff".
What I mean is that everybody has his or her own interpretation of the hobby. Stay true to yours and have fun with it.

I see a lot of people using magnets for weapon swaps maybe you could do the same for your "trophies" if you want to display a "kid friendly" version your models at the GW store but it's up to you.
 
I enjoy your work so keep it up !!
 
Remember  that: "in the future, there is only war", Right ?

[KrautScientist]

You all raise excellent points and I don't really want to further complicate the issue. If anything, the solution suggested by Augustus (that is, to include two spikes with different versions that can be swapped) is not only the perfect solution to avoid trouble, but also equal opportunities -- double thumbs up!

 

I just want to get one thing straight because I fear some may have misunderstood my intention: I wasn't arguing against the nudity (which is not that big of a scandal here in Germany), neither was I advocating a kid-friendly approach to 40k (not least because kids these days have enough opportunities to see far worse stuff): I just wanted to share my impression at that particular element of the model: that it made me uneasy for some elusive, nearly indescribable reason. Let's call it "being too real", because that's the closest possible way to put words to it.

 

In any case, thanks for the many comments! I thorougly enjoyed this exchange of thoughts and wished this hobby of ours would lend itself to that kind of exchange more often ;)

 

Oh, and one last thing, because it was brought up further up in this thread: There actually was a fairly notable occasion where beat was brought up in a 40k diorama, and man what a brouhaha that was...

[chaplain mortis]

Such detail and planning for these is seriously impressive!

Love your style for the Night Lords!

Great work that I will be keeping an eye on

[Augustus b'Raass]

I too am honoured by the exchange of ideas and open conversation.

 

After trillions of zombie films, GoT, urotsukidoji, Dexter and many more series and movies, I've grown a stomach capable of holding my lunch. I've even come to associate imagery of death and cruelty with entertainment. I acknowledge that -in a way- this is quite sick, but it is the truth. As long as I know what I am looking at is fiction, I can say I can enjoy it. So to be honest, I'm actually quite interested in diorama, so if you have pics, and don't mind sharing them bring 'm.   

 

Anyway, the contemptor is finished, except for the head. I just got a message from FW telling me the new Night Lords head set is on it's way. I love the cruelty implied in these helmets. A torso on a spike as a trophy would suit the helmet. However, until that time, I've experimented with blutac-ing different helmets on the dread. The MkIII helmet looks the best, but the trophy didn't quite look right with it. So I blutacked two small resin spikes that come with the FW chaos rhino extra armour on him. 

 

Thoughts?

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/Night%20Lords%20WIP/WP_20140418_010_zps31dce8de.jpg

 

OK, so thank you all: KrautScientist, Knight of the Raven, Uprising, Shuggnuggath, BassWave, MrBear, Flint13, JeffTibbetts, Brother Heinrich, Tarvik, Darth Mustard for the comments and contributions to the conversation about the torso. You've all made good points. 

 

Let's finish the debate about the appropriateness of female torso's. Your comments helped me get to a satisfying solution that will keep everyone (most importantly, me  ) happy. Your suggestions have all helped

 

I'll now respond to the comments about other things than the appropriatesness of the female torso. 

 

 

First off, I love your night lords.  They are exactly as I would image a night lord army to be like, and they are done to the highest standards humanly possible.  The compentor is looking great, and can't wait to see it painted.   

Thanks, I'm waiting for the head. As soon as it arrives, I'll choose which to use and start painting. Expect a finished model by the end of next week.

 

Nice models too. 

 

Thanks for the encouragement, a plog may be launched after the holidays actually. I have had a workload from the Eye of Terror itself this last month and only one more marine has joined the other three but things are easing up now and I will have ten days off from today and should be able to do some more painting next week. Need to work on my fluff aswell though...

I can speak from recent experience and tell you that starting a plog can be extremely inspiring and an encouragement to your modelling projects. I applaud your plans to start one.

 

I love the new Contemptor. It bleeds brutality, and aggression. Can't wait to see it painted and with a head. 

Thanks Tarvik! Soon...

 

Torsos, skin and scalp trophies are neither my cup of (Chinese green ) tea but they are parts of the NL background and you obviously enjoy using and modeling them so you should keep doing them. I think yours are really cool and clever and I like the creativity that you display through them.

Cheers! And by the way, I think your Space Marine Chapter's name, the "Procrastinators" is hilarious.

 

Such detail and planning for these is seriously impressive!
Love your style for the Night Lords!
Great work that I will be keeping an eye on

Thanks man. I'm glad you enjoy my work. 


Edit: replies

Edited April 18, 2014 by Augustus b'Raass

[KrautScientist]

Hmm, while I am not entirely sold on the Mk III helmet, I do like the two spikes replacing the trophy, because that way one actually gets a look at the interesting silhouette created by dragon heads used as exhausts, an element that had been obscured by the trophy before.

 

I'd also like to point out that this is one of the best Contemptor poses I have seen so far!

[Flint13]

Have to agree with Kraut. I'm not 100% on the MK3 helm as well. Maybe because the head is set up so high? On the vanilla contemptor helm, only the bridge of the helm's nose and up is visible. Sort of like he's trying to peer over an armored casement. I suppose it's because I'm so used to seeing them on infantry. It gives kinda of  feel of a smaller power armored marine hiding in there instead of an armored sarcophagus. 

 

Do want to avoid any hints of Dreadknight ^_^

[Brother Martemis]

Kadzing! Triple post! It's super quiet around here lately, must be the sun coming out.

Anyway, I've been working on a second Relic Predator. I really like the rules for both the Plasma Destroyer and the Magna Melta weapon upgrades for these, so after I built one with a plasma blaster out of an original metal predator turret, I wanted one with a magna melta. I used a Leman Russ turret and the back side of a baal predator. Nowhere near finished: neads some chaos banding and other details.

 

What do you think?

...

I think, being blood ravens; I think one of these will be added to the motor pool... Haha

 

Oh and as for the trophies, love it all, demonstrates the utterly brutal and ruthless nature of the night lords. Anyone's a target. All awesome dude

Edited April 26, 2014 by Brother Martemis

[oldschoolsavant]

 

 I believe GW has never gone beyond flayed skin, severed heads and nailed hands on their models.

 

 

Recently, I'd agree. But in the old days ? Ha ! Slaanesh sculpts were the worst offenders, with breasts galore and one or two pushing further.....  

 

(possibly *NSFW*)

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Unreleased_-_Chaos_Beastman_Penis_headed.jpg

 

Just look closely. It'll take a moment for your eyes to decipher that helm....   Don't think it was a generally available mini, but there are a few that stick in the back of the head from RT days that did see the light. Who knows what else exists or passed our younger minds without due attention to detail....?

 

Derail/hijack over. I typically see NLs as the KISS army of Chaos, but there's certainly a certain perceived nastiness around these creations. Nice work.

[Brother Heinrich]

 

 

 I believe GW has never gone beyond flayed skin, severed heads and nailed hands on their models.

 

 

Recently, I'd agree. But in the old days ? Ha ! Slaanesh sculpts were the worst offenders, with breasts galore and one or two pushing further.....  

 

(possibly *NSFW*)

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Unreleased_-_Chaos_Beastman_Penis_headed.jpg

 

Just look closely. It'll take a moment for your eyes to decipher that helm....   Don't think it was a generally available mini, but there are a few that stick in the back of the head from RT days that did see the light. Who knows what else exists or passed our younger minds without due attention to detail....?

 

Derail/hijack over. I typically see NLs as the KISS army of Chaos, but there's certainly a certain perceived nastiness around these creations. Nice work.

.... Cannot be unseen. 

[Veteran Sergeant]

I'd actually looked at those corpses from Secret Weapon a while back and wondered if I'd use the naked female torso, lol. It definitely looks brutal. Great work on that Contemptor.

 

I've always been a little envious of you Chaos guys. You guys have so many fun options for turning up the brutal. Always seems like decorating my loyalists too much with corpses, skulls, and body parts would straddle the line of heresy. ;)  Tyranids make for decent trophies, and they're far more cartoony than a dismembered torso. So I end up only being Dethklok, while you guys can go full Cannibal Corpse.

[Squeaky]

I know I'm slightly back tracking sorry, but I can see KrautScientist's point or more why you think like that? I had a similar discussion with an Israeli women.

 

Having national service over there, when we spoke in sort 8 months she'd be having to enroll. I asked what sector she'd like to be in thinking engineers or air force but she said front line. I was probably more shocked than I should have been but I was quite young at the time.

 

She responded with they don't allow women in the army as grunts (they may do now though) along story short some "masoygnistic" views later and an slightly peeved Israeli we came to the conclusion that men view women as mothers, sisters an all encompassing figure of love and comfort. To the point it be a tactical advantage for her, abit like that scene in black hawk down.

 

All that sugar, spice is bull though but I still view women as softer. Though a mum scowled at me and my terminators so I scowled back god I can be petty.

 

Anyway awesome model great details and a brilliant solution :) look forward to some paint :D

[Noctus Cornix]

I wasn't part of the conversation concerning the nudity, nor will I add anything because it is already done and out of the way. What I WILL say though is that I am very proud of most everyone who took part in it and quite happy with how mature and respectable everyone took it. Its times like this where I remember why I love this board.

 

Now, on to the Contemptor.  I must be perfectly honest that while not only am I not really sold on the head (although that is a personal preference) I also feel that perhaps now you've added a bit too much to the model... Don't get me wrong, the pose and everything is great, but there's just so much on him now that its really quite difficult to soak it all in with one satisfied gulp. I would recommend mostly just removing the gargoyle exhaust stacks and the spike running directly along the top. Just leave it bare, I think. Otherwise, looks awesome.

Edited April 19, 2014 by noctus cornix

[lorenzo_ishivar_kain]

Love that predator! Nothing to say about the dreadnought, just....paint a skull-mask on his helmet, please..

Just like this http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Lords?file=NL_Legionary_Vosk.jpg

[Augustus b'Raass]

The contemptor is finished and can be found here.

 

REPLIES:

 

Hmm, while I am not entirely sold on the Mk III helmet, I do like the two spikes replacing the trophy, because that way one actually gets a look at the interesting silhouette created by dragon heads used as exhausts, an element that had been obscured by the trophy before.

 

I'd also like to point out that this is one of the best Contemptor poses I have seen so far!

You're absolutely right. Check out the finsihed model. And read the fluff I wrote for it. You'll like it.   

 

 

Have to agree with Kraut. I'm not 100% on the MK3 helm as well. Maybe because the head is set up so high? On the vanilla contemptor helm, only the bridge of the helm's nose and up is visible. Sort of like he's trying to peer over an armored casement. I suppose it's because I'm so used to seeing them on infantry. It gives kinda of  feel of a smaller power armored marine hiding in there instead of an armored sarcophagus. 

 

Do want to avoid any hints of Dreadknight 

You are right too. You made me have an epiphany: just use the original helmet. It is brutal looking enough. You and Kraut are both thanked in the fluff.

 

I think, being blood ravens; I think one of these will be added to the motor pool... Haha

Oh and as for the trophies, love it all, demonstrates the utterly brutal and ruthless nature of the night lords. Anyone's a target. All awesome dude

Thanks man. Glad you like it. Looking forward to your build.

Please, would you in the future delete the actual pics when quoting my posts with images? It takes up a lot of bandwidth from the free photobucket acount. Thanks. 

 

Recently, I'd agree. But in the old days ? Ha ! Slaanesh sculpts were the worst offenders, with breasts galore and one or two pushing further.....  

 

(possibly *NSFW*)

http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:Unreleased_-_Chaos_Beastman_Penis_headed.jpg

 

Just look closely. It'll take a moment for your eyes to decipher that helm....  Don't think it was a generally available mini, but there are a few that stick in the back of the head from RT days that did see the light. Who knows what else exists or passed our younger minds without due attention to detail....?

 

Derail/hijack over. I typically see NLs as the KISS army of Chaos, but there's certainly a certain perceived nastiness around these creations. Nice work.

 

.... Cannot be unseen. 

I agree with Heinrich. That's a pretty... detailed model.

 

I'd actually looked at those corpses from Secret Weapon a while back and wondered if I'd use the naked female torso, lol. It definitely looks brutal. Great work on that Contemptor.

 

I've always been a little envious of you Chaos guys. You guys have so many fun options for turning up the brutal. Always seems like decorating my loyalists too much with corpses, skulls, and body parts would straddle the line of heresy. Tyranids make for decent trophies, and they're far more cartoony than a dismembered torso. So I end up only being Dethklok, while you guys can go full Cannibal Corpse.

Buy them. You won't be let down. And HH loyalist NL as well as WE could use them right? Otherwise, just come to the dark side!

 

Anyway awesome model great details and a brilliant solution  look forward to some paint

Thanks man. Glad you like it. 

 

I wasn't part of the conversation concerning the nudity, nor will I add anything because it is already done and out of the way. What I WILL say though is that I am very proud of most everyone who took part in it and quite happy with how mature and respectable everyone took it. Its times like this where I remember why I love this board.

 

Now, on to the Contemptor.  I must be perfectly honest that while not only am I not really sold on the head (although that is a personal preference) I also feel that perhaps now you've added a bit too much to the model... Don't get me wrong, the pose and everything is great, but there's just so much on him now that its really quite difficult to soak it all in with one satisfied gulp. I would recommend mostly just removing the gargoyle exhaust stacks and the spike running directly along the top. Just leave it bare, I think. Otherwise, looks awesome.

You too have a point. I removed the trophy. Just check my showcase here.

 

Love that predator! Nothing to say about the dreadnought, just....paint a skull-mask on his helmet, please..
Just like this http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Night_Lords?file=NL_Legionary_Vosk.jpg

Thanks. Skull Mask painted. 

Edited April 23, 2014 by Augustus b'Raass

[Augustus b'Raass]

I need my infantry fix. In order to keep myself motivated and inspired, I try to alternate vehicles and infantry. I'm still waiting on the rumours about a new Chaos Space Marine Havoc sprue to be proven true, so I need to finish what I still have on the shelve. Which is a lot, I fear. So here's my next project. Some very tasty raptors! 

 

I also bought a box of the actual Chaos Havos and the Nigh Lords torso's. I'm mixing the parts from these, together with the left-over resin jump packs. The goal is have a squad of ten with a 'unified' feel to them. 

 

Hope you enjoy. As always: feedback welcome.

 

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d185/mkruijff/Night%20Lords%20WIP/c424a864-fb84-43f8-bef1-45f348d7e9f2_zps2b8ebae2.jpg

[BrotherCaptainArkhan]

This is another army I'd love to play a game against. Loving everything in this thread. The one thing I don't go for on principle are the bat wings, but you've made them look sufficiently badass that it doesn't matter - on the scale of Adam West to Christian Bale, these Night Lords are infinitely more Dark Knight than Camp Crusader. I am particularly keen to see that Raptors squad finished up! :)

[Koriel]

Had any problems fitting the platic backpacks to the FW raptors? Unless I'm misstaken they have kind of a unique fit.

[Quixus]

Where's the power sword of the raptot on the left from?